The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[KB21]

This is based only on my experience with this virus at my clinic and the patient population I have seen, so it is not a representation of the entire population. I’ve had around 10 total positive cases over the past month. The worst patient with it that I have seen had symptoms consistent with a bad case of influenza. I saw one guy to release him to go back to work who had one day of fever and no other symptoms that had a positive test. I had two that I thought might have it that had bilateral pneumonia and were hypoxic that I had admitted to the hospital. Turns out, both of them tested negative for the virus.

[msstate7]

With the heat Georgia's governor caught for opening up, it'll be interesting watching the number of tests administered. Seems he and his critics would like to "cook" the numbers some to make their stance look better.

[Joebob]

Well, I tested positive for having Coronavirus antibodies so I apparently had it and was asymptomatic. Thankfully.

Michael Osterholm said just yesterday that way too many of the tests are producing false positives, so you might still want to be careful unless you?ve got high confidence in the test that was used. Regardless, glad you?re doing well.

[Todd4State]

I got the test at the hospital where I work. They're testing all of us. I work with COVID patients some and some of my friends have gotten COVID too. My blood type is O-. I got tested today and we get the results back in an hour. I'm honestly not sure about the validation but I assume we are. I'm in good health exercise a lot despite posting on here often and thankfully I wasn't symptomatic.

[confucius say]

Michael Osterholm said just yesterday that way too many of the tests are producing false positives, so you might still want to be careful unless you?ve got high confidence in the test that was used. Regardless, glad you?re doing well.

The antibody tests?

[Jack Lambert]

Until there is enough time to come up with some graphs and stats for fear-mongering.**

I think it will be proven to be a genius move. Red states are going to thrive and the blue states will linger behind. All that nose rubbing they threw at red states is going to end up being bad karma on thier part. They are the ones begging for money from the Federal goverment.

[AROB44]

I think it will be proven to be a genius move. Red states are going to thrive and the blue states will linger behind. All that nose rubbing they threw at red states is going to end up being bad karma on thier part. They are the ones begging for money from the Federal goverment.

Seems to me that everyone is lined up for free money....not just blue states. Of course that "free" money just adds to the debt which it appears neither political party has any interest in reducing.

[StateDawg44]

Seems to me that everyone is lined up for free money....not just blue states.

Huh?

[Lord McBuckethead]

So how long do we have to wait and draw conclusions on Georgia's reopening?

Zero days. Cause we already know what is going to happen. People will go out and about. They will go to work. At some point, they will contract the virus. A large percentage will not even know they have it. They will continue to infect people over the course of 10-20 days, including old people and immune compromised people. They may or may not ever show symptoms themselves. People they know are going to get sick, some will die. No one will be at fault, and the same time, all of us will be at fault.

That is the worst part of this virus. Its slow development and the unknowing. At least with other viruses you know really quickly within a day or two whether you have it. H1N1 and Ebola both present themselves very quickly and you can trace it. This one you cannot.

So, trust me, I understand the need to get back to work for the overall economy. I get it. As a country we will just have to make a choice. Economy or protecting older folks. It really is that simple.
If you want to open everything back up, you should have been screaming for mass nationwide testing 2 months ago. Or start now, so 2 months from now we can do it much safer.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I think it will be proven to be a genius move. Red states are going to thrive and the blue states will linger behind. All that nose rubbing they threw at red states is going to end up being bad karma on thier part. They are the ones begging for money from the Federal goverment.

Everyone is looking for emergency money. Red Blue, purple it doesn't matter. If you have employees that need to make their mortgage payments and cannot work, you do what you have to do.
Red states do have two advantages. 1st, they are way less populated than blue states. 2nd, they have contact with less people per day than average blue states. That is it. It has nothing to do with your political leanings or your outlook on the constituation. So they should be relatively safer than the traditional high density areas of the country.

Edited to remove a personal attack.

[Dawgology]

Zero days. Cause we already know what is going to happen. People will go out and about. They will go to work. At some point, they will contract the virus. A large percentage will not even know they have it. They will continue to infect people over the course of 10-20 days, including old people and immune compromised people. They may or may not ever show symptoms themselves. People they know are going to get sick, some will die. No one will be at fault, and the same time, all of us will be at fault.

That is the worst part of this virus. Its slow development and the unknowing. At least with other viruses you know really quickly within a day or two whether you have it. H1N1 and Ebola both present themselves very quickly and you can trace it. This one you cannot.

So, trust me, I understand the need to get back to work for the overall economy. I get it. As a country we will just have to make a choice. Economy or protecting older folks. It really is that simple.
If you want to open everything back up, you should have been screaming for mass nationwide testing 2 months ago. Or start now, so 2 months from now we can do it much safer.

Those aren't the only two choices. There is a middle way. But everyone has to be radically polarized on their view.

If you are older, in poor health, or immunocompromised then you need to shelter-in-place. If you don't fall into that high risk category then you need to return to daily life with an eye toward being cognizant. Wash your hands. Wear a mask when in crowded spaces. Try to adhere to the 6ft social distancing. Eventually 2/3 of the US population will get it and create herd immunity. This, combined with better treatements and vaccine, will allow those in the high-risk category to return to normal life. Let the "free money" be focused on those in the high risk category. Everyone else can work and right the economy.

[Homedawg]

Zero days. Cause we already know what is going to happen. People will go out and about. They will go to work. At some point, they will contract the virus. A large percentage will not even know they have it. They will continue to infect people over the course of 10-20 days, including old people and immune compromised people. They may or may not ever show symptoms themselves. People they know are going to get sick, some will die. No one will be at fault, and the same time, all of us will be at fault.

That is the worst part of this virus. Its slow development and the unknowing. At least with other viruses you know really quickly within a day or two whether you have it. H1N1 and Ebola both present themselves very quickly and you can trace it. This one you cannot.

So, trust me, I understand the need to get back to work for the overall economy. I get it. As a country we will just have to make a choice. Economy or protecting older folks. It really is that simple.
If you want to open everything back up, you should have been screaming for mass nationwide testing 2 months ago. Or start now, so 2 months from now we can do it much safer.

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

[Commercecomet24]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

This. I still hear people saying shelter in place was to stop the virus. Shelter in place was just to slow it down so medical resources wouldn't be overwhelmed. As you said it's been flattened and it's time we move ahead.

[Dawgology]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

So the entire population can quarantine themselves enough but not a small pool of the population. Ok.

[Cooterpoot]

It would be great, but with people out and about, the virus will infect more of the population. Older folks will get it. Game over.
It would be awesome if this virus worked like that, but old people and high risk risk people couldn't quarantine themselves enough not to get it.

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

[Lord McBuckethead]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

I don't disagree, but the next step potentially taken correctly could help long term. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, agreed. If we have 200k active cases now, it could be 400k more in 2 weeks.

200
400
800
1600k
3200k in a matter of weeks without tracking. Can't track without testing.

Flattening the curve does nothing to change the final numbers of infected. It's sole purpose is to not overwhelm what our hospitals can handle. As you can see from the numbers, when you start with a relatively large number at the beginning, it escalates very quickly.

[Lord McBuckethead]

So the entire population can quarantine themselves enough but not a small pool of the population. Ok.

Yeah, when you have a small portion of the population curently infected, a large group of people can stay away from them. If our numbers skyrocket, no one would be able to stay away from that many people.
It's a function of the number of carriers versus who can still catch it. It is exactly how infections work.
Right now Covid is at 2.8 people infected per person that is carrying it. Not terrible, but still higher than the flu.
The chances of me running into on of the 10k (potential) people in MS that are carrying it is not very high, but if 200k have it. It is hard to avoid.

So by returning to work, we up the number of carriers. It is just a matter of time that one person has to go and do so and so for an old person. Its not that they wouldn't try to distance themselves, they literally cannot.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

All of those actions are what everyone should be doing. Still, even with those precautions you could still get it. Especially if the active cases goes up locally.

[SheltonChoked]

Shelton with all due respect it's something of a miracle we even HAVE a test 4 months in, it really is. Those things normally take years. That has amazed me. Technology progresses as always,

I find that hard to believe since Germany, Taiwan, China, and South Korea all had working tests before we did. Less than 2 months after the first known infection.

Maybe since it is similar to SARS, they could do it faster?

All this might have gone better, if we had something to coordinate efforts by a central agency in times of emergency ( like a defense act), to take the responsibility to start producing the items needed, (Vent, PPE, test materials) and foot the bill.

But apparently we don't have that ability any more...

[Extendedcab]

Those aren't the only two choices. There is a middle way. But everyone has to be radically polarized on their view.

If you are older, in poor health, or immunocompromised then you need to shelter-in-place. If you don't fall into that high risk category then you need to return to daily life with an eye toward being cognizant. Wash your hands. Wear a mask when in crowded spaces. Try to adhere to the 6ft social distancing. Eventually 2/3 of the US population will get it and create herd immunity. This, combined with better treatements and vaccine, will allow those in the high-risk category to return to normal life. Let the "free money" be focused on those in the high risk category. Everyone else can work and right the economy.

Bingo, thank you Dawgology, as our responses, to date, have been all (Shelter in Place) or nothing (open up the economy like GA) in response to the virus. We need a common sense approach as you outline here. If not, we will all die (unfavorable percentage that is) of the virus now or later as this crap drags on.

Good post!

[StateDawg44]

All of those actions are what everyone should be doing. Still, even with those precautions you could still get it. Especially if the active cases goes up locally.

Let us know when you bring something new to the table.

Not saying I have contributed any groundbreaking posts, and not trying to troll you but you're repeating stuff that was covered over 2 weeks ago.

And here we are now. It will have to happen sooner or later. Now or 2 weeks from now will still trigger the same "spike" in numbers.

[Commercecomet24]

Then older folks should take it more seriously and stay their asses at home and avoid contact with people as much as possible.
I'm not older but I have a number of underlying issues. I don't go out much. I work at home. My family wears masks and take other measures if they go out.

Commons sense right here.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Let us know when you bring something new to the table.

Not saying I have contributed any groundbreaking posts, and not trying to troll you but you're repeating stuff that was covered over 2 weeks ago.

And here we are now. It will have to happen sooner or later. Now or 2 weeks from now will still trigger the same "spike" in numbers.

The correct information has to be repeated. People have short term memory issues and without being reminded will then follow this post up with a "so when are we all going to start going back to football games" post. The simple fact is, this will not get better without better testing, herd immunization, or a vaccine. Just telling older people to stay home will do next to nothing when everyone they could have contact with is compromised. Other than full quarantine on older people, it will fail. That's including all packaging on food product. etc.

Truth is, there is no ground breaking information to share in this conversation or other Covid conversations. The simple truth is that things are not going to go back to normal until one or more of those three simple things are achieved. Sure, we could start back the economy right now with safe guards on how we work and things may not get too bad. We can try it, but people act like we are going to just flip the switch back on we are going to stay with the current trends is crazy. Within 3 weeks of the on switch, we could surpass our capacity given the current numbers of known and to a bigger extent the unknown infected.

Seriously, two days after they stopped the day by day updates on infected and deaths people were like....."so we can go back to doing what we want?"
Common sense approach is the best bet, but do not forget that anyone that chooses to go out and has any kind of contact with anyone or anything that could find its way into a compromised person is upping those peoples chance of contracting it and dying.

[Todd4State]

The correct information has to be repeated. People have short term memory issues and without being reminded will then follow this post up with a "so when are we all going to start going back to football games" post. The simple fact is, this will not get better without better testing, herd immunization, or a vaccine. Just telling older people to stay home will do next to nothing when everyone they could have contact with is compromised. Other than full quarantine on older people, it will fail. That's including all packaging on food product. etc.

Truth is, there is no ground breaking information to share in this conversation or other Covid conversations. The simple truth is that things are not going to go back to normal until one or more of those three simple things are achieved. Sure, we could start back the economy right now with safe guards on how we work and things may not get too bad. We can try it, but people act like we are going to just flip the switch back on we are going to stay with the current trends is crazy. Within 3 weeks of the on switch, we could surpass our capacity given the current numbers of known and to a bigger extent the unknown infected.

Seriously, two days after they stopped the day by day updates on infected and deaths people were like....."so we can go back to doing what we want?"
Common sense approach is the best bet, but do not forget that anyone that chooses to go out and has any kind of contact with anyone or anything that could find its way into a compromised person is upping those peoples chance of contracting it and dying.

I can think of no better way of achieving herd immunity than opening things back up.

[Todd4State]

It's not like the country will he virus free in two months. The point of flattening the curve was to help medical people, not to wipe out the virus. In fact, flattening the curve makes it a longer process. We've flattened it, time to move on.

This is correct.

[gtowndawg]

This. I still hear people saying shelter in place was to stop the virus. Shelter in place was just to slow it down so medical resources wouldn't be overwhelmed. As you said it's been flattened and it's time we move ahead.

Hear, hear!

[Lord McBuckethead]

Bingo, thank you Dawgology, as our responses, to date, have been all (Shelter in Place) or nothing (open up the economy like GA) in response to the virus. We need a common sense approach as you outline here. If not, we will all die (unfavorable percentage that is) of the virus now or later as this crap drags on.

Good post!

The middle way would be great, if you don't see spikes. I am all for opening up the economy. I wish we had testing in place that would help open it safer, but we have done literally nothing to get it up to speed. At whatever percentage increase we open the economy, you will see the sick numbers increase. As long as all companies, within reason, can safe guard their employees and people refrain from meeting in groups of really any size, the infected rate could stay within range. Of course, people will die, but it would keep us out of the very tragic people dying just because we couldn't handle the capacity.

Why doesn't one side of the conversation include the middle of the road approach when discussing openin up the economy. They literally give zero guidelines to how to do it. Hell the President has had an update meeting literally every single day for 3 weeks, calling for states to be "liberated" whatever that means and has really given nothing to the "how" part. Some states like MS could open up, I would think. But even then, we would be starting with 1000s of known cases versus us shutting it down with only 1 known case.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I can think of no better way of achieving herd immunity than opening things back up.

yeah, if people do what they are supposed to do. Like all things, leadership on how to open, what to open, and at what rate would be key. So far, that leadership at all levels has been missing.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Hear, hear!

Not sure why you are seconding it. Most everyone I know understands this as a given.

[Todd4State]

yeah, if people do what they are supposed to do. Like all things, leadership on how to open, what to open, and at what rate would be key. So far, that leadership at all levels has been missing.

I definitely think opening up should be gradual. It appears as if the Federal government agrees too.

[Lord McBuckethead]

I definitely think opening up should be gradual. It appears as if the Federal government agrees too.

I think everyone is on board with a gradual reopening. Great care has to be taken, by everyone involved, (govt, businesses prepped for safer working conditions, and the workers).
My issue is that weeks ago, there was a sentiment that we just need to let everyone go back to work starting May 1. Well that is not reality. From what I have read, most state governors are saying the correct things. Florida, Iowa, NJ, and NY all have laid out pretty good looking plans in general. It all comes down to, people taking this thing seriously even when things appear to be going in the right direction. It could turn if everyone lets their guard down. Just saying.

In general, most offices and work places can take steps to protect. The hardest will be things like restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, etc. I think most people will refrain from going into a crowded place, regardless of where the numbers are. Everyone needs to keep reminding people to protect yourself and demand the best possible scenario at each place of business as possible. Some will be impossible. Some may not need to be reopened.

[Todd4State]

I think everyone is on board with a gradual reopening. Great care has to be taken, by everyone involved, (govt, businesses prepped for safer working conditions, and the workers).
My issue is that weeks ago, there was a sentiment that we just need to let everyone go back to work starting May 1. Well that is not reality. From what I have read, most state governors are saying the correct things. Florida, Iowa, NJ, and NY all have laid out pretty good looking plans in general. It all comes down to, people taking this thing seriously even when things appear to be going in the right direction. It could turn if everyone lets their guard down. Just saying.

In general, most offices and work places can take steps to protect. The hardest will be things like restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, etc. I think most people will refrain from going into a crowded place, regardless of where the numbers are. Everyone needs to keep reminding people to protect yourself and demand the best possible scenario at each place of business as possible. Some will be impossible. Some may not need to be reopened.

I really don't think getting people to follow along is an issue. Remember a month and a half ago or so when people thought that Americans wouldn't go along with social distancing? Yes there have been a few small protests but it's only been recently for the most part when it's about time to start to open back up anyway if those people wait a couple of weeks.

[defiantdog]

I really don't think getting people to follow along is an issue. Remember a month and a half ago or so when people thought that Americans wouldn't go along with social distancing? Yes there have been a few small protests but it's only been recently for the most part when it's about time to start to open back up anyway if those people wait a couple of weeks.
We are lucky that technology allows a lot of us to work from home. A pandemic like this in the 90s would have been catastrophic.

[Todd4State]

We are lucky that technology allows a lot of us to work from home. A pandemic like this in the 90s would have been catastrophic.

Absolutely. And this will change things in healthcare because a lot of our MD's are doing virtual MD visits with the COVID patients and others that don't want to go to a clinic to potentially be exposed for obvious reasons. It's still a "niche" kind of thing in my field of work- usually it's someone that works with kids working with kids in a rural part of the country like the Alaskan wilderness or something. But I think that is going to start to become more commonplace because now these MD's are starting to become comfortable with it.

I'm sure a lot of things will change like that too.

[StateDawg44]

The correct information has to be repeated. People have short term memory issues and without being reminded will then follow this post up with a "so when are we all going to start going back to football games" post. The simple fact is, this will not get better without better testing, herd immunization, or a vaccine. Just telling older people to stay home will do next to nothing when everyone they could have contact with is compromised. Other than full quarantine on older people, it will fail. That's including all packaging on food product. etc.

Truth is, there is no ground breaking information to share in this conversation or other Covid conversations. The simple truth is that things are not going to go back to normal until one or more of those three simple things are achieved. Sure, we could start back the economy right now with safe guards on how we work and things may not get too bad. We can try it, but people act like we are going to just flip the switch back on we are going to stay with the current trends is crazy. Within 3 weeks of the on switch, we could surpass our capacity given the current numbers of known and to a bigger extent the unknown infected.

Seriously, two days after they stopped the day by day updates on infected and deaths people were like....."so we can go back to doing what we want?"
Common sense approach is the best bet, but do not forget that anyone that chooses to go out and has any kind of contact with anyone or anything that could find its way into a compromised person is upping those peoples chance of contracting it and dying.


Very few if any are acting like that. Just because one's opinion is that football will be played this fall or they are ready to watch sports doesn't mean they think everything is back to normal and the virus has just up and vanished. But yes, people are itching to get back to some sense of normalcy. Humans nor many animals at all are really built to be complacent and just sit around and wait and cower in the corner forever.

Do you expect this virus to ever be gone? What is your tentative date of return to normalcy? Normalcy will become everything we were doing + Covid and herd immunity or a vaccine. Even with a vaccine. It will very likely become part of "the norm" or we will have a COVID-20 strain.




So far, that leadership at all levels has been missing.

Maybe you should send all the leaders and experts the book that was written on how to handle this.

[DownwardDawg]

Absolutely. And this will change things in healthcare because a lot of our MD's are doing virtual MD visits with the COVID patients and others that don't want to go to a clinic to potentially be exposed for obvious reasons. It's still a "niche" kind of thing in my field of work- usually it's someone that works with kids working with kids in a rural part of the country like the Alaskan wilderness or something. But I think that is going to start to become more commonplace because now these MD's are starting to become comfortable with it.

I'm sure a lot of things will change like that too.

A lot of us that work offshore have been using the tele-med vid stuff for years. We call it “Doc-in-a-box”.
I had something going on this past month and it was cool to basically “FaceTime “ my doctor and have him call me in some meds.

[Dawgology]

I think everyone is on board with a gradual reopening. Great care has to be taken, by everyone involved, (govt, businesses prepped for safer working conditions, and the workers).
My issue is that weeks ago, there was a sentiment that we just need to let everyone go back to work starting May 1. Well that is not reality. From what I have read, most state governors are saying the correct things. Florida, Iowa, NJ, and NY all have laid out pretty good looking plans in general. It all comes down to, people taking this thing seriously even when things appear to be going in the right direction. It could turn if everyone lets their guard down. Just saying.

In general, most offices and work places can take steps to protect. The hardest will be things like restaurants, bars, bowling alleys, etc. I think most people will refrain from going into a crowded place, regardless of where the numbers are. Everyone needs to keep reminding people to protect yourself and demand the best possible scenario at each place of business as possible. Some will be impossible. Some may not need to be reopened.

This is the biggest hurdle. Cases will begin to nosedive and a lot of people will say "it's over" and throw caution to the wind.

[SheltonChoked]

This. I still hear people saying shelter in place was to stop the virus. Shelter in place was just to slow it down so medical resources wouldn't be overwhelmed. As you said it's been flattened and it's time we move ahead.

Flattening was not a one time thing.

Without testing, we are exactly where we were in January.... But with 1,000,000 x more cases to start the spread...

That's my biggest frustration. We have no centralized plan.

We used the DPA on 3m only to make N95 masks, 2 months after the rest of the world put in an order... https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-order-defense-production-act-regarding-3m-company/
https://apnews.com/cbed1f366882b07ecc5a45cdee9f4e1e

But I find no similar notice to these companies https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/top-suppliers/reagents-suppliers-manufactures/ that would enable us to expand testing...

Even if he just applied the section to prevent price gouging (due to multiple states bidding on the same items, against FEMA),

But nope...

Just telling the state they are on their own...

Meanwhile, we should be able to expand the definition of "essential businesses", and if everyone wore a mask, we could reduce the transmission rate.

[SheltonChoked]

I can think of no better way of achieving herd immunity than opening things back up.

You mean like the "Herd Immunity" to HCoV-229E? HCoV-NL63? HCoV-OC43?

Or , in other words, what if, your "immunity" wears off in 2-3 months? Like it does in other human Coronavirus?

Are we going to start locking everyone over 65 in bubble? Is that our new retirement party?

Or is that the new GOP solution to save Social Security and Medicare?

[defiantdog]

You mean like the "Herd Immunity" to HCoV-229E? HCoV-NL63? HCoV-OC43?

Or , in other words, what if, your "immunity" wears off in 2-3 months? Like it does in other human Coronavirus?

Are we going to start locking everyone over 65 in bubble? Is that our new retirement party?

Or is that the new GOP solution to save Social Security and Medicare?
Immunity may wear off, but you'll still have antibodies built up to fight the virus.

[defiantdog]

Looks like Alabama is opening on Friday..... 50% occupancy for restaurants? Stupid..... you can't manage that. Also, that won't help the restaurant because they still won't be making money by limiting occupancy.

[Liverpooldawg]

Immunity may wear off, but you'll still have antibodies built up to fight the virus.

Immunity and antibodies are basically the same thing. Wearing off means the antibodies are fading away. The truth is we don't know yet and won't for a while. The track record of some coronaviruses suggests immunity will be fleeting. On the other hand I think with SARS it was something like 2 years. Hopefully even if there is no real immunity you will still be left with your immune system at least being geared to quicker response to a repeat infection. Again, we just don't know right now.

[Johnson85]

You mean like the "Herd Immunity" to HCoV-229E? HCoV-NL63? HCoV-OC43?

Or , in other words, what if, your "immunity" wears off in 2-3 months? Like it does in other human Coronavirus?

Are we going to start locking everyone over 65 in bubble? Is that our new retirement party?

So you have no end game? We aren't going to have immunity so let's just voluntarily kill our economy/


Or is that the new GOP solution to save Social Security and Medicare?

Well voluntarily starting a depression will certainly help save social security and medicare.

[Dawgology]

You mean like the "Herd Immunity" to HCoV-229E? HCoV-NL63? HCoV-OC43?

Or , in other words, what if, your "immunity" wears off in 2-3 months? Like it does in other human Coronavirus?

Are we going to start locking everyone over 65 in bubble? Is that our new retirement party?

Or is that the new GOP solution to save Social Security and Medicare?

Right. We should lockdown everything and everyone for years because they might get sick. Then the US can just print paper money and hand it out to everyone. That always ends well.

[Johnson85]

Looks like Alabama is opening on Friday..... 50% occupancy for restaurants? Stupid..... you can't manage that. Also, that won't help the restaurant because they still won't be making money by limiting occupancy.

I haven't looked at the order but the summary I saw for Alabama was the same as Mississippi. No dine-in restaurants. Small retail can open at 50% capacity (which for most places is well above full capacity b/c they are rarely, if ever, at 50% of their capacity).

[confucius say]

Flattening was not a one time thing.

Without testing, we are exactly where we were in January.... But with 1,000,000 x more cases to start the spread...

That's my biggest frustration. We have no centralized plan.

We used the DPA on 3m only to make N95 masks, 2 months after the rest of the world put in an order... https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/memorandum-order-defense-production-act-regarding-3m-company/
https://apnews.com/cbed1f366882b07ecc5a45cdee9f4e1e

But I find no similar notice to these companies https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/top-suppliers/reagents-suppliers-manufactures/ that would enable us to expand testing...

Even if he just applied the section to prevent price gouging (due to multiple states bidding on the same items, against FEMA),

But nope...

Just telling the state they are on their own...

Meanwhile, we should be able to expand the definition of "essential businesses", and if everyone wore a mask, we could reduce the transmission rate.

I don't get the infatuation for testing. The tests are often inaccurate, and, more importantly, people are being treated based on symptoms, not test results. If you are showing symptoms, you are being treated, including quarantined, the same way regardless of your test results. Everyone I know who has tested negative but still showed symptoms has been told to remain quarantined.

[smootness]

I'm thinking more and more that Sweden has the right approach.

I think the only positive responses to this long-term are the complete and total shutdown of society for 3 weeks, or Sweden's approach. What's going to happen in most places is that they're going to try to reopen, cases will spike again, they'll shut down again. But that shutdown is never total. It's enough to kill the economy and people's livelihood but not enough to stop the virus.

[smootness]

I don't get the infatuation for testing. The tests are often inaccurate, and, more importantly, people are being treated based on symptoms, not test results. If you are showing symptoms, you are being treated, including quarantined, the same way regardless of your test results. Everyone I know who has tested negative but still showed symptoms has been told to remain quarantined.

If you expand testing enough, you can test a much wider swath of society, even those not showing symptoms.

That's the point. Right now, we have to just wait and treat people with symptoms because we can't test enough people to catch it before they show symptoms. But that leaves asymptomatic people spreading the virus, which is why nobody can get ahead of this thing.

I don't know when testing that widespread is possible, but it's the only way to accomplish a wider opening of the economy without another big spike in cases.

[confucius say]

If you expand testing enough, you can test a much wider swath of society, even those not showing symptoms.

That's the point. Right now, we have to just wait and treat people with symptoms because we can't test enough people to catch it before they show symptoms. But that leaves asymptomatic people spreading the virus, which is why nobody can get ahead of this thing.

I don't know when testing that widespread is possible, but it's the only way to accomplish a wider opening of the economy without another big spike in cases.

But that strategy (testing people to catch positive people before they are symptomatic) would require testing every person who leaves their house every day right? Otherwise, I test negative on Wednesday and go out in the world and become positive Thursday. Even if we had 200 million tests per day to do that, there is no way that many tests could be processed daily by labs unh?

[dawgday166]

If you expand testing enough, you can test a much wider swath of society, even those not showing symptoms.

That's the point. Right now, we have to just wait and treat people with symptoms because we can't test enough people to catch it before they show symptoms. But that leaves asymptomatic people spreading the virus, which is why nobody can get ahead of this thing.

I don't know when testing that widespread is possible, but it's the only way to accomplish a wider opening of the economy without another big spike in cases.

I'm somewhat convinced the current tests are average at best anyway. There's about a 10% positive rate out of all the test performed. That just doesn't compute to me if people getting tested have a lot of the symptoms. Unless there is some other virus floating around.

[Cooterpoot]

They're wasting tests on pets. Think about that...
My dad is in a nursing home. We questioned the home about the testing of workers. Said they didn't have enough tests to regularly test them.
But Mary Ann in NY got her 17ing Pug tested.

[Jack Lambert]

But that strategy (testing people to catch positive people before they are symptomatic) would require testing every person who leaves their house every day right? Otherwise, I test negative on Wednesday and go out in the world and become positive Thursday. Even if we had 200 million tests per day to do that, there is no way that many tests could be processed daily by labs unh?

there is no way they are going to be able to do the testing they want. Factories just can't manufacture. The most they can is 1 million a month. That what was said the other day at that rate it would be 340 months just to test every american just once. This is all bull shit.

[defiantdog]

They're wasting tests on pets. Think about that...
My dad is in a nursing home. We questioned the home about the testing of workers. Said they didn't have enough tests to regularly test them.
But Mary Ann in NY got her 17ing Pug tested.

$150 is worth more than a life it seems.....

[fishwater99]

https://www.turnto23.com/news/coronavirus/video-interview-with-dr-dan-erickson-and-dr-artin-massihi-taken-down-from-youtube

Bakersfield doctors Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi are now in the spotlight on the national stage, following their comments made about shelter-in-place orders that have been seen across the country.

23ABC News aired their press conference Wednesday, which has garnered over 5 million views on YouTube, before the media company removed it, stating "inappropriate content" a reason.

In the video, Erickson and Massihi state that healthy people don't need to shelter-in-place anymore based on data they extrapolated from Kern County's COVID-19 testing.

The video gained recognition from Tesla CEO Elon Musk, who tweeted 23ABC's video of the doctors, stating "docs make a good post."

On Monday, Erickson told 23ABC News that he was not expecting national attention and shared his thoughts Musk's shout-out.

"To have someone that in my opinion is brilliant and one of the top minds in the country and in the world give you some affirmation is powerful," Erickson said.

But, not all the feedback has been in favor of Erkcson's viewpoints, including New York emergency physician Stuart Weiss.

"The reason why I think it's dangerous is because they are advocating that we should be quickly lifting social distancing and that's just not correct. While the virus is still out there, here in New York state we're still seeing hundreds of people lose their lives," Weiss said Monday.

Other emergency physician's like Palm Springs M.D. Lawrence Heiskell support Erickson's view that people with compromised immune systems should be quarantining, but healthy people should not.

"Quarantine by definition is to sequester people who are sick. You don't quarantine well people. You let them be exposed in the general public so they can acquire immunity."

Erickson says he has scheduled meetings with various California senators to discuss his data and beliefs on Tuesday.


https://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/emergency-physicians-weigh-in-on-bakersfield-doctors-whove-gone-viral-for-shelter-in-place-comments

[fishwater99]

Good points here.

Okay to go to COSTCO but not Church, okay to got to Home Depot but not work.


If you are young and healthy why quarantine, if you are old and sick stay home.

Isolate the sick, not the healthy.

Herd immunity is needed, don't shut down the economy.

[confucius say]

Good points here.

Okay to go to COSTCO but not Church, okay to got to Home Depot but not work.


If you are young and healthy why quarantine, if you are old and sick stay home.

Isolate the sick, not the healthy.

Herd immunity is needed, don't shut down the economy.

Been saying it for two weeks. Over 50 or underlying conditions shelter. Everybody else, Time to roll!

[Jack Lambert]

Good points here.

Okay to go to COSTCO but not Church, okay to got to Home Depot but not work.


If you are young and healthy why quarantine, if you are old and sick stay home.

Isolate the sick, not the healthy.

Herd immunity is needed, don't shut down the economy.

I saw on report that it is not so much age. It is more with health. It did say that was a problem because there is a large portion of the population that are pre diabetic and don't know it. I agree isolate the sick and old and everyone else go to work.

[Commercecomet24]

Been saying it for two weeks. Over 50 or underlying conditions shelter. Everybody else, Time to roll!

Yep. I'm 55 and haven't missed a day of work since this all started. I'm fortunate that I'm healthy and in fairly good shape. Any one with underlying health conditions(whatever they may be) and the elderly do need to be cautious.

[Jack Lambert]

Yep. I'm 55 and haven't missed a day of work since this all started. I'm fortunate that I'm healthy and in fairly good shape. Any one with underlying health conditions(whatever they may be) and the elderly do need to be cautious.

I'm 55 and I have not missed a day of work and I have no fear. I am in really good health and really good shape. I have a really nice home gym in my garage, I lift weights five day a week and I walk 3 miles six nights a week with my wife.

[Liverpooldawg]

They're wasting tests on pets. Think about that...
My dad is in a nursing home. We questioned the home about the testing of workers. Said they didn't have enough tests to regularly test them.
But Mary Ann in NY got her 17ing Pug tested.

They don't use the same labs. Vets have their own.

[Jack Lambert]

They don't use the same labs. Vets have their own.

They can check it through blood now. I suspect that is what he did.

[Liverpooldawg]

Good points here.

Okay to go to COSTCO but not Church, okay to got to Home Depot but not work.


If you are young and healthy why quarantine, if you are old and sick stay home.

Isolate the sick, not the healthy.

Herd immunity is needed, don't shut down the economy.

The difference is at work, church, funerals, bars, nursing homes, house parties, etc you are in prolonged close contact. That is still the main transmission mode. The stuff I've seen is that most cases are found in clusters related to those kind of things. Not all, but most.

[Jack Lambert]

The difference is at work, church, funerals, bars, nursing homes, house parties, etc you are in prolonged close contact. That is still the main transmission mode. The stuff I've seen is that most cases are found in clusters related to those kind of things. Not all, but most.

You telling me Jesus can't hit a curveball?

[Joebob]

Good points here.

Okay to go to COSTCO but not Church, okay to got to Home Depot but not work.


If you are young and healthy why quarantine, if you are old and sick stay home.

Isolate the sick, not the healthy.

Herd immunity is needed, don't shut down the economy.

When you’re at Costco, you’re not sitting next to somebody for an hour. When you’re at Home Depot, you’re not in close proximity to somebody for 8 to 10 hours. When you’re quarantining, you still have to go get groceries. You still have to go to the doctor. You’re still exposed to your family members who are working. Letting everyone go back to work, especially in big cities, is putting at least a quarter of the population at extreme risk after the virus starts spreading again, and it might just be yourself that’s at more risk than you realize. At some point we’re going to have to stick our necks out and take some more risk because we can’t keep everything shut down forever, but thinking it’s just as simple as the at-risk people staying home is a recipe for disaster.

[Liverpooldawg]

When you’re at Costco, you’re not sitting next to somebody for an hour. When you’re at Home Depot, you’re not in close proximity to somebody for 8 to 10 hours. When you’re quarantining, you still have to go get groceries. You still have to go to the doctor. You’re still exposed to your family members who are working. Letting everyone go back to work, especially in big cities, is putting at least a quarter of the population at extreme risk after the virus starts spreading again, and it might just be yourself that’s at more risk than you realize. At some point we’re going to have to stick our necks out and take some more risk because we can’t keep everything shut down forever, but thinking it’s just as simple as the at-risk people staying home is a recipe for disaster.

Exactly...and herd immunity may not be possible. It doesn't happen with most of the other coronaviruses out there.

[Jack Lambert]

Tyson was shutting down plants for liability reason? John Tyson made it sound like he was doing it for his employees health. I figured it was both. Trump is signing executive order forcing John Tyson to reopen plants and the US goverment is assuming all liability and giving them extra protective equipment. I am guessing they will be doing a lot of testing in those plants.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm 55 and I have not missed a day of work and I have no fear. I am in really good health and really good shape. I have a really nice home gym in my garage, I lift weights five day a week and I walk 3 miles six nights a week with my wife.

Geez Jack don't ruin the curve for the rest of us lol!

[Jack Lambert]

Geez Jack don't ruin the curve for the rest of us lol!

They said that exercise is the best defense if you contract the virus. I lifted weight anyways but the walking started five weeks ago. Oh yeah I'm 230 pounds and have a 36 inch waist.

[Homedawg]

When you’re at Costco, you’re not sitting next to somebody for an hour. When you’re at Home Depot, you’re not in close proximity to somebody for 8 to 10 hours. When you’re quarantining, you still have to go get groceries. You still have to go to the doctor. You’re still exposed to your family members who are working. Letting everyone go back to work, especially in big cities, is putting at least a quarter of the population at extreme risk after the virus starts spreading again, and it might just be yourself that’s at more risk than you realize. At some point we’re going to have to stick our necks out and take some more risk because we can’t keep everything shut down forever, but thinking it’s just as simple as the at-risk people staying home is a recipe for disaster.

"At some point we're going to have to stick our necks out and take some more risk".............When, in your opinion, is the more risk ok??

[fishwater99]

When you’re at Costco, you’re not sitting next to somebody for an hour. When you’re at Home Depot, you’re not in close proximity to somebody for 8 to 10 hours. When you’re quarantining, you still have to go get groceries. You still have to go to the doctor. You’re still exposed to your family members who are working. Letting everyone go back to work, especially in big cities, is putting at least a quarter of the population at extreme risk after the virus starts spreading again, and it might just be yourself that’s at more risk than you realize. At some point we’re going to have to stick our necks out and take some more risk because we can’t keep everything shut down forever, but thinking it’s just as simple as the at-risk people staying home is a recipe for disaster.

Sweden is looking pretty damn good.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/28/coronavirus-covid-19-sweden-anders-tegnell-herd-immunity/3031536001/

[Cooterpoot]

They don't use the same labs. Vets have their own.

I saw an interview where a families and their dogs are being tested in the same places. So it's not always the case. And it's still a waste of a test.

[Liverpooldawg]

Sweden is looking pretty damn good.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/04/28/coronavirus-covid-19-sweden-anders-tegnell-herd-immunity/3031536001/

Sweden's per capita death rate is way higher than their neighbors. It's even higher than ours.

[Liverpooldawg]

I saw an interview where a families and their dogs are being tested in the same places. So it's not always the case. And it's still a waste of a test.

since you can't use a vet test on a human how so?

[dawgday166]

You telling me Jesus can't hit a curveball?

Ahhh, Je'sus. I like heem very much but he no hit curveball. And it is very bad to take Jobu's rum ... VERY BAD.

[dawgday166]

Geez Jack don't ruin the curve for the rest of us lol!

He done ruint it.

[msstate7]

Sweden's per capita death rate is way higher than their neighbors. It's even higher than ours.

But we and their neighbors shut down. Not really fair to compare them to us right now. Compare the numbers once we open back up a month

[Liverpooldawg]

But we and their neighbors shut down. Not really fair to compare them to us right now. Compare the numbers once we open back up a month

They are banking on something we have no evidence at all that is even possible....NONE. Also, they have done a lot more than you think. Internal travel is all but banned from Stockholm to the rest of the coiuntry.

[msstate7]

They are banking on something we have no evidence at all that is even possible....NONE.

Well if there's no herd immunity we all screwed anyway

[Homedawg]

Well if there's no herd immunity we all screwed anyway

Only if every time we hear corona and we climb in a hole we are..... otherwise, some will die, no doubt, but it's not going to wipe out the country. But maybe you left off the ***

[Commercecomet24]

He done ruint it.

Yeah he did!!! Lol

[Schultzy]

Here's the percentage of population that have NOT died with COVID
Belgium 99.944%
Spain: 99.956%
Italy: 99.957%
France 99.965%
UK 99.972%
NL 99.975%
Sweden 99.980%

[defiantdog]

Here's the percentage of population that have NOT died with COVID
Belgium 99.944%
Spain: 99.956%
Italy: 99.957%
France 99.965%
UK 99.972%
NL 99.975%
Sweden 99.980%
So you're saying there's a chance?!

[SheltonChoked]

But that strategy (testing people to catch positive people before they are symptomatic) would require testing every person who leaves their house every day right? Otherwise, I test negative on Wednesday and go out in the world and become positive Thursday. Even if we had 200 million tests per day to do that, there is no way that many tests could be processed daily by labs unh?

No.

You have to contact trace.

You see who the positive tests have come in contact with, for more than 5 minutes, and test them too. And so on.

Then you isolate the positive people.

If you were negative, and were not in contact with anyone that had it, you don't need to be tested again.

[smootness]

They are banking on something we have no evidence at all that is even possible....NONE. Also, they have done a lot more than you think. Internal travel is all but banned from Stockholm to the rest of the coiuntry.

To be fair, everyone is banking at least a little on things we don't have evidence for. No one knows what the best plan truly is. I'm extremely interested to see where things stand once a year or two from now because only then will we really know what the best plan was.

[smootness]

The three big questions to me, which no one really knows the answer to, are:

1) Are those who get the virus then immune to getting it again, even for a limited period?
2) Will we reach herd immunity by the time a vaccine is available even with quarantining in place? If so, Sweden's approach seems better. If not, it may not be.
3) Will the economic struggles that these measures introduce worth the lives lost? The instinct is to say that it isn't worth it at all, but you have to remember that economic struggles lead to deaths as well.

There is no clear strategy. I'm glad someone is doing something different simply so we can see what has worked better.

[Jack Lambert]

The three big questions to me, which no one really knows the answer to, are:

1) Are those who get the virus then immune to getting it again, even for a limited period?
2) Will we reach herd immunity by the time a vaccine is available even with quarantining in place? If so, Sweden's approach seems better. If not, it may not be.
3) Will the economic struggles that these measures introduce worth the lives lost? The instinct is to say that it isn't worth it at all, but you have to remember that economic struggles lead to deaths as well.

There is no clear strategy. I'm glad someone is doing something different simply so we can see what has worked better.

There is no one play book for this. My play book is isolate those who are at risk and open everything up and let it play out. Those who are at risk and still need to work I say let the goverment help them out financially.

[smootness]

There is no one play book for this. My play book is isolate those who are at risk and open everything up and let it play out. Those who are at risk and still need to work I say let the goverment help them out financially.

I think isolating those at risk is definitely a smart way to go...but I don't think you can open everything up entirely outside of that. That actually does put those isolating at risk...because they can't isolate entirely. They still have to get food and other things delivered at the very least, which does bring risk.

Also, building up herd immunity only via the healthy doesn't work because once those most at risk begin to come out, they will be completely susceptible.

And lastly, everyone is at risk. Certainly there are groups that are at much greater risk...but this disease is making even young, healthy people very, very sick and killing them in some cases. At the very least, you still end up with the overburdened hospitals in that case with everything fully open.

I think the best options are a full and total shutdown for about a month, or something like Sweden is doing.

[Jack Lambert]

I think isolating those at risk is definitely a smart way to go...but I don't think you can open everything up entirely outside of that. That actually does put those isolating at risk...because they can't isolate entirely. They still have to get food and other things delivered at the very least, which does bring risk.

Also, building up herd immunity only via the healthy doesn't work because once those most at risk begin to come out, they will be completely susceptible.

And lastly, everyone is at risk. Certainly there are groups that are at much greater risk...but this disease is making even young, healthy people very, very sick and killing them in some cases. At the very least, you still end up with the overburdened hospitals in that case with everything fully open.

I think the best options are a full and total shutdown for about a month, or something like Sweden is doing.

Just my opinion now but I think there is still a lot not known and I think the goverment is assuming the worse case scenario and acting based on that. I think it is really contagious but I don't believe it is as deadly as they are making it out to be. I think it has been in the United State a lot longer than we know and it is more widespread than we know. We can thank the W.H.O and China for that. If we knew all that really went on in China we would probably be way more ahead than we are now. But personally I don't think it is as deadly that they are assuming. I just think isolate and go back to work. I am not piss at the goverment they are acting on info they were giving but i think in hindsight in a few years we will look back and say the complete shut down was a mistake.

[Liverpooldawg]

No.

You have to contact trace.

You see who the positive tests have come in contact with, for more than 5 minutes, and test them too. And so on.

Then you isolate the positive people.

If you were negative, and were not in contact with anyone that had it, you don't need to be tested again.

Contact tracing only works when there area very limited amount of cases. That ship has already sailed. It will come back into port when the case number is reduced by a LOT. It's hard to do with a highly contagious airborne virus.

[Dawgfan77]

Care to discuss why deaths are over reported by hospitals

?Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it?s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for ? if they?re Medicare ? typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,? he added on April 19. ?But if it?s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it?s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.?

[smootness]

Just my opinion now but I think there is still a lot not known and I think the goverment is assuming the worse case scenario and acting based on that. I think it is really contagious but I don't believe it is as deadly as they are making it out to be. I think it has been in the United State a lot longer than we know and it is more widespread than we know. We can thank the W.H.O and China for that. If we knew all that really went on in China we would probably be way more ahead than we are now. But personally I don't think it is as deadly that they are assuming. I just think isolate and go back to work. I am not piss at the goverment they are acting on info they were giving but i think in hindsight in a few years we will look back and say the complete shut down was a mistake.

The death rate is likely something like 0.5-0.7%, which is lower than initially feared, though pretty much in line with estimates pretty early on. The issue is, that rate is 5+ times higher than a normal flu and it is a good bit more contagious than a normal flu. Add that to the fact that no one has immunity and we don't really know how to treat it, and it's a big deal.

The question is not whether or not COVID-19 is bad; it is. The question is, what is the right mix of safety and saving lives vs. keeping things running enough that the economy doesn't completely tank and can recover quickly. I don't believe the answer is, 'Shut everything down, we have to save as many lives as possible from this virus.' I also don't believe the answer is, 'Get back to normal and let it run its course.' I think there are ways to slow this thing down while being smart. I think some places and people are going too far in the direction of shutting things down, and I think many are too complacent and ready to ramp everything back to normal.

[smootness]

Care to discuss why deaths are over reported by hospitals

?Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it?s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for ? if they?re Medicare ? typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,? he added on April 19. ?But if it?s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it?s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.?

Do we know it's being over reported, though? Where did you get what you posted?

If that's true, there's definitely an incentive there, and that's an issue. But do we actually know these deaths are being over-reported?

[Dawg2003]

Care to discuss why deaths are over reported by hospitals

?Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it?s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for ? if they?re Medicare ? typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,? he added on April 19. ?But if it?s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it?s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.?

Can you give us an example of a hospital that has falsely reported a COVID death? That is Medicare fraud and should be reported.

[confucius say]

Can you give us an example of a hospital that has falsely reported a COVID death? That is Medicare fraud and should be reported.

This article says there are currently no public reports of hospitals but doing so. One could make the argument that is too early for any investigation of fraud to take place, but who knows if there will be any such investigations.

But what is factual, and also in the article, is that CA, for example, is claiming only lab confirmed covid 19 deaths. NY, conversely, is claiming as covid 19 deaths all presumed, non-confirmed cases, even absent a lab test. That, amazingly, is allowed under the CARES act and will result in millions of more federal dollars for NY than other states like CA.

So, it is not Medicare fraud bc the CARES act allows you to report deaths as "plausible" covid deaths and be reimbursed at a much higher rate even without the deceased having a test for covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3000638001

[Dawgfan77]

This article says there are currently no public reports of hospitals but doing so. One could make the argument that is too early for any investigation of fraud to take place, but who knows if there will be any such investigations.

But what is factual, and also in the article, is that CA, for example, is claiming only lab confirmed covid 19 deaths. NY, conversely, is claiming as covid 19 deaths all presumed, non-confirmed cases, even absent a lab test. That, amazingly, is allowed under the CARES act and will result in millions of more federal dollars for NY than other states like CA.

So, it is not Medicare fraud bc the CARES act allows you to report deaths as "plausible" covid deaths and be reimbursed at a much higher rate even without the deceased having a test for covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3000638001

This!!

It's why these numbers are inflated in NY/NJ. And take away those numbers form the total death toll then we can get see what a clearer picture the entire US is. Also I'd challenge the numbers from MI and LA as well

[Dawg2003]

This article says there are currently no public reports of hospitals but doing so. One could make the argument that is too early for any investigation of fraud to take place, but who knows if there will be any such investigations.

But what is factual, and also in the article, is that CA, for example, is claiming only lab confirmed covid 19 deaths. NY, conversely, is claiming as covid 19 deaths all presumed, non-confirmed cases, even absent a lab test. That, amazingly, is allowed under the CARES act and will result in millions of more federal dollars for NY than other states like CA.

So, it is not Medicare fraud bc the CARES act allows you to report deaths as "plausible" covid deaths and be reimbursed at a much higher rate even without the deceased having a test for covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/3000638001

So how is the hospital claiming the deaths as COVID? How does the government decide which deaths to claim as COVID? What is the criterion?

[hacker]

https://i.imgur.com/JM35aod.jpg

deaths overreported, lol

this is deaths of all causes by the way.

[DownwardDawg]

New York has done a horrible job of handling this. Total mismanagement from the beginning.

[Cooterpoot]

since you can't use a vet test on a human how so?

They weren't at a vet. They were testing the dog with the humans at a test facility. Beyond that, I have no clue.

[defiantdog]

They weren't at a vet. They were testing the dog with the humans at a test facility. Beyond that, I have no clue.

And yet, I never got a call back to take the test. But they sure were in a hurry to schedule me for an antibody test.

[Cooterpoot]

I like the scare tactics some places in MS are using to avoid opening to even the state standards. One county I saw was proclaiming they had 60+ active cases and 4 deaths. Well, that was a damn lie. They had less than half that many active cases and of those half were in a nursing home. They literally had 14 active cases in the county outside the home. The county has over 20,000 people. Yet, they are going full lockdown. This is why MS is so damn backwards. The spokesperson barely spoke decent English. Oh, and yes, a dry county, lol.

[Cooterpoot]

And yet, I never got a call back to take the test. But they sure were in a hurry to schedule me for an antibody test.

Exactly! You should tell them to pay you for it.

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

UMC was expecting their peak to be last week. The number of cases have reached new highs for them over the last 48 hours.

[Liverpooldawg]

Care to discuss why deaths are over reported by hospitals

?Hospital administrators might well want to see COVID-19 attached to a discharge summary or a death certificate. Why? Because if it?s a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for ? if they?re Medicare ? typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000,? he added on April 19. ?But if it?s COVID-19 pneumonia, then it?s $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000.?
Actual deaths from it are probably underreported. The current estimate is around 10k.

[Liverpooldawg]

UMC was expecting their peak to be last week. The number of cases have reached new highs for them over the last 48 hours.

Yep, It's not just there. Some of the opening up in my field in Mississippi has now been pushed back. It looks like Germany is about to re-impose some of their restrictions. They loosed up a week ago and now look to have a surge on their hands. The reason things have not been as bad as feared so far is what we have been doing.

[Dawgology]

The clinic my friend works at stopped testing for the flu back in February. If you come in with flu like systems you are coded as Covid-19 and sent home to quarantine. If you have a high enough fever they will test you. They haven't submitted flu stats to the state since Feb 8th.

[confucius say]

So how is the hospital claiming the deaths as COVID? How does the government decide which deaths to claim as COVID? What is the criterion?

Symptoms they were showing combined with their medical history, per this article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.amp.html

[Dawg2003]

UMC was expecting their peak to be last week. The number of cases have reached new highs for them over the last 48 hours.

I work at another hospital in the Jackson area, and we're experiencing the same thing. We opened back up for elective surgery, but we don't have the bed capacity to do too many.

[Dawg2003]

Symptoms they were showing combined with their medical history, per this article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.amp.html

Thank you. Will read when I get the chance.

[turkish]

https://i.imgur.com/JM35aod.jpg

deaths overreported, lol

this is deaths of all causes by the way.
Compelling graph, but it does not support your point without the context of how many were actually reported.

I think over reporting is likely balanced by early Covid deaths, before it was a thing.

[Schultzy]

Concerning China and the supply chain, with the Whiz Kids who've been running America for decades, who needs actual enemies? It's amazing the USA has survived this long.

[Schultzy]

Compelling graph, but it does not support your point without the context of how many were actually reported.

I think over reporting is likely balanced by early Covid deaths, before it was a thing.

The subway system in New York has been an incubator for Covid19 and hasn’t yet been shut down for a single day; plus 4 million people in an otherwise densely populated area.

There should be different level re-starts for different areas of the nation depending on population density.

[hacker]

https://i.imgur.com/ncHZ2oh_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

https://i.imgur.com/ncHZ2oh_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

What happened 5 years ago to make that one line match Illinois?

[defiantdog]

https://i.imgur.com/ncHZ2oh_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

These charts are saying that people only started dying from covid in March..... I don't know if I believe that

[DeltaChicagoDog]

From the Chicago Tribune: "That also would be a roughly 35% drop from 2016, when Chicago reported its highest number of homicides in two decades: 756."
Not sure if this accounts for all of it, but it does for some of the deaths.

[dantheman4248]

These charts are saying that people only started dying from covid in March..... I don't know if I believe that


No they aren't. They're saying that the numbers got abnormal and large starting in March

[hacker]

These charts are saying that people only started dying from covid in March..... I don't know if I believe that

These charts are showing when people died of any cause. Period.

Sure there were some covid deaths before March but not enough to notice on these charts. People were not dying in mass numbers like they have been for the past 6 weeks.

[Extendedcab]

I am just passing this along for thought.

How Effective Is Isolation? Woman Tests Positive For COVID After Weeks Of Never Leaving Home

A Charlotte North Carolina woman says she has not left her home in more than three weeks because of an autoimmune disease but still contracted COVID-19. It's a history of how Rachel Brummert contracted the highly contagious disease. She says she's only had contact with three people. She says she even wears gloves when checking her mail but admits she didn't wear gloves when brining in her packages from outside.

For the complete article, please see the following link:

https://leadpatriot.com/how-safe-is-your-home-woman-in-isolation-for-weeks-still-tests-positive-for-covid-19/6742/

[Dawgfan77]

The death totals in democratic states such as N.Y. NJ MI took a big jump once the CARES act went into affect
Not surprised that Dems states also want vote from home ballots.... how many of the COVID dead gonna vote?

[Cooterpoot]

Hospitals that I deal with are seeing the largest increases they've seen so far, this week. One doubled the number of people on vents.

[BeardoMSU]

I am just passing this along for thought.

How Effective Is Isolation? Woman Tests Positive For COVID After Weeks Of Never Leaving Home

A Charlotte North Carolina woman says she has not left her home in more than three weeks because of an autoimmune disease but still contracted COVID-19. It's a history of how Rachel Brummert contracted the highly contagious disease. She says she's only had contact with three people. She says she even wears gloves when checking her mail but admits she didn't wear gloves when brining in her packages from outside.

For the complete article, please see the following link:

https://leadpatriot.com/how-safe-is-your-home-woman-in-isolation-for-weeks-still-tests-positive-for-covid-19/6742/

So she came in contact with a person who was COVID positive, who happened to be delivering her groceries? It's certainly horrible luck, given that she supposedly was practicing good social distancing/quarantine, but I fail to see how this example provides a case against isolation...

[BeardoMSU]

Hospitals that I deal with are seeing the largest increases they've seen so far, this week. One doubled the number of people on vents.

Damn. You probably said already, but where are your hospitals again, Cooter?

[BeardoMSU]

how many of the COVID dead gonna vote?

So historically blue states (NY, NJ, and MI) will be blue again because of.....voter fraud?

[hacker]

1255825648448348161

Holy shit, me and Trump agree about something

[hacker]

So historically blue states (NY, NJ, and MI) will be blue again because of.....voter fraud?

Do not engage

[Jack Lambert]

Are State Parks open?

[confucius say]

1255825648448348161

Holy shit, me and Trump agree about something

Y'all gonna be buddies by the end of this hack

[Turfdawg67]

I am just passing this along for thought.

How Effective Is Isolation? Woman Tests Positive For COVID After Weeks Of Never Leaving Home

A Charlotte North Carolina woman says she has not left her home in more than three weeks because of an autoimmune disease but still contracted COVID-19. It's a history of how Rachel Brummert contracted the highly contagious disease. She says she's only had contact with three people. She says she even wears gloves when checking her mail but admits she didn't wear gloves when brining in her packages from outside.

For the complete article, please see the following link:

https://leadpatriot.com/how-safe-is-your-home-woman-in-isolation-for-weeks-still-tests-positive-for-covid-19/6742/

Actually if you want the complete story read this from WCNC out of Charlotte...

https://www.wcnc.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/charlotte-woman-hasnt-left-her-house-in-three-weeks-but-tested-positive-for-covid-19/275-77707b1d-fd2f-4a36-bf3e-16beca4104c4

Seems the woman started her isolation on March 15, then left the house and went to a pharmacy on March 18. Symptoms began on March 22, she went to be tested on April 5 and she was finally diagnosed with Covid-19 on April 9. I guess the updated version didn't fit The Lead Patriot, The Blaze or their audience's agenda. Talk about fake news. Lolz.

[Jack Lambert]

Actually if you want the complete story read this from WCNC out of Charlotte...

https://www.wcnc.com/mobile/article/news/health/coronavirus/charlotte-woman-hasnt-left-her-house-in-three-weeks-but-tested-positive-for-covid-19/275-77707b1d-fd2f-4a36-bf3e-16beca4104c4

Seems the woman started her isolation on March 15, then left the house and went to a pharmacy on March 18. Symptoms began on March 22, she went to be tested on April 5 and she was finally diagnosed with Covid-19 on April 9. I guess the updated version didn't fit The Lead Patriot, The Blaze or their audience's agenda. Talk about fake news. Lolz.

I did not read neither of the two but out of curiosity how do we know which one is true? Hell they both might be fake. I don't believe shit any more. The media have lost their way because of political tunnel vision.

[msstate7]

1255825648448348161

Holy shit, me and Trump agree about something

I support our president; but you think in a million years he'd say "Sweden was right and the US made the wrong decision"? No one knows whether Sweden made the right decision yet.

[Turfdawg67]

I did not read neither of the two but out of curiosity how do we know which one is true? Hell they both might be fake. I don't believe shit any more. The media have lost their way because of political tunnel vision.

Oh I don't know... because the woman lives in Charlotte and WCNC is the local TV station in Charlotte. Is the local media biased now? Has the Starkville Daily News been infiltrated by libtards? WCNC ran the story first, The Blaze and The Lead Patriot took the story and put it on their sites. WCNC updated the story when all the facts were in... the others did not.

[Cooterpoot]

Damn. You probably said already, but where are your hospitals again, Cooter?

Pine Belt and one around Jackson

[Johnson85]

I support our president; but you think in a million years he'd say "Sweden was right and the US made the wrong decision"? No one knows whether Sweden made the right decision yet.

^^^This^^^ Sweden made a ballsy call with the amount of information they had at the time. Based on the updated information, I would bet that Sweden made the right call, but it's still very much up in the air because of uncertainty in the data we have and also because new developments could change the results in a heartbeat. We could find out in the next two weeks that Remdisivir doesn't reduce mortality at all, or that it cuts mortality in half, or that it cuts mortality by 90%. Whether Sweden's decision ultimately turns out to be the right or wrong call with the benefit of hindsight could look different under each of those scenarios.

[Dawgology]

^^^This^^^ Sweden made a ballsy call with the amount of information they had at the time. Based on the updated information, I would bet that Sweden made the right call, but it's still very much up in the air because of uncertainty in the data we have and also because new developments could change the results in a heartbeat. We could find out in the next two weeks that Remdisivir doesn't reduce mortality at all, or that it cuts mortality in half, or that it cuts mortality by 90%. Whether Sweden's decision ultimately turns out to be the right or wrong call with the benefit of hindsight could look different under each of those scenarios.

Checking out Sweden's numbers on worldometer everything looks ok for them. They have had a gradual progression that appears to be leveling off. Maybe even dipping a bit overall.

[hacker]

I support our president; but you think in a million years he'd say "Sweden was right and the US made the wrong decision"? No one knows whether Sweden made the right decision yet.

He could've not said anything

[Liverpooldawg]

I support our president; but you think in a million years he'd say "Sweden was right and the US made the wrong decision"? No one knows whether Sweden made the right decision yet.

As of now it looks like they really screwed up. Time will tell though.

[defiantdog]

I still don't believe any numbers being thrown out by any media format. China is lying about the amount of cases, we are inflating the number of cases, and Europe is clueless. Not to mention..... the WHO has been clueless this entire time, and they are supposed to be the experts.

[hacker]

As of now it looks like they really screwed up. Time will tell though.

Agreed. Take a quick scroll through this page

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus?country=SWE+NOR+DNK+FIN

Norway, Finland, and Denmark are opening back up and have the numbers low enough they can trace and isolate (similar to South Korea, which is down to single digit cases per day now)

Of course, it's too early to call it. And we need to see economic numbers as well.

[smootness]

1255825648448348161

Holy shit, me and Trump agree about something

I think it's far too early to say anything definitive about this.

Sweden's death rate has definitely outpaced their neighbors, and it is slightly outpacing ours, but not drastically. And if it turns out that most of the population becomes exposed to it eventually, as many studies have said will happen, then they may both reach the end of it sooner and see less economic impact as a result, all while the overall number of people affected is about equal.

They have said from the beginning they would see more deaths early; they knew of the reality of their response. They said the reason they were going that route was because it was a more sustainable response, and that may prove true. If we try to ramp back up and then shut back down once cases spike again, we're going to be caught in a vicious cycle that may ultimately hurt us worse.

[smootness]

Agreed. Take a quick scroll through this page

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus?country=SWE+NOR+DNK+FIN

Norway, Finland, and Denmark are opening back up and have the numbers low enough they can trace and isolate (similar to South Korea, which is down to single digit cases per day now)

Of course, it's too early to call it. And we need to see economic numbers as well.

This thing is far from over. I think even adding 'as of now,' any analysis is essentially useless. Now, if Sweden had a death rate of like 20% so far, I would certainly agree it's probably early enough to say it was a bad move. But it's not anywhere near something that bad.

Simply looking at current death rates and comparing is basically meaningless. All death counts will continue to rise, and it's possible Sweden's slows down while others don't and they catch up. It's simply way too early to say anything.

[hacker]

This thing is far from over. I think even adding 'as of now,' any analysis is essentially useless. Now, if Sweden had a death rate of like 20% so far, I would certainly agree it's probably early enough to say it was a bad move. But it's not anywhere near something that bad.

Simply looking at current death rates and comparing is basically meaningless. All death counts will continue to rise, and it's possible Sweden's slows down while others don't and they catch up. It's simply way too early to say anything.

Sweden is 12.2% case fatality rate
Norway is 2.7% case fatality rate

Sweden: 790 new cases today, 124 new deaths
Norway: 24 new cases today, 3 new deaths

https://i.imgur.com/Le73WeC.png
https://i.imgur.com/dO8Qc9Z.png

On the second chart, you can clearly see where the lockdown started having an effect. The trajectories were almost exactly the same.

Norway has begun lifting the lockdown and their cases are not increasing yet. They are at a place where the numbers are so low they can trace and isolate any new cases.

I realize anything is possible in the future, but this evidence is pretty strong IMO. We need economic numbers as well.

[smootness]

Sweden is 12.2% case fatality rate
Norway is 2.7% case fatality rate

Sweden: 790 new cases today, 124 new deaths
Norway: 24 new cases today, 3 new deaths

https://i.imgur.com/Le73WeC.png
https://i.imgur.com/dO8Qc9Z.png

On the second chart, you can clearly see where the lockdown started having an effect. The trajectories were almost exactly the same.

Norway has begun lifting the lockdown and their cases are not increasing yet. They are at a place where the numbers are so low they can trace and isolate any new cases.

I realize anything is possible in the future, but this evidence is pretty strong IMO. We need economic numbers as well.

Keep in mind, too, though, that Sweden has double the population of Norway and a higher population density. A lot of their impact is happening in Stockholm, similar to the US with New York, which is much bigger than any city in Norway and has much greater population density.

I think it's likely Sweden would have begun to outpace Norway at least slightly even if they had both done the same thing.

But saying Norway has begun lifting lockdown without increasing cases is, again, mostly meaningless at this point. They will have to continue to open it up more in order to keep their economy from tanking, and as they do, their cases will undoubtedly spike and almost certainly past the point of being able to fully contact trace. Once that happens, you're back where you started.

Again, the point is that Sweden's strategy is more sustainable. Time will tell if the stricter lockdowns lowered the number of cases and deaths, and if the added economic struggles were worth it.

[hacker]

They will have to continue to open it up more in order to keep their economy from tanking, and as they do, their cases will undoubtedly spike and almost certainly past the point of being able to fully contact trace.

How can you say this is "undoubtedly" going to happen?

Look at South Korea. South Korea is fully reopened.

https://i.imgur.com/RFbPlG8.png

Since you brought up population and density, they also have a lot more people and a lot higher population density than Sweden.

Norway is following South Korea's strategy btw.

[smootness]

How can you say this is "undoubtedly" going to happen?

Look at South Korea. South Korea is fully reopened.
Since you brought up population and density, they also have a lot more people and a lot higher population density than Sweden.

Norway is following South Korea's strategy btw.

Sorry, my original post was wrong about the level of testing.

The difference in South Korea is that they started testing and contact tracing aggressively from the very beginning. They also have a system in place that is much better designed to aid in this than even Norway.

Has Norway gotten control over all the cases in the country? If not, reopening is destined to lead to another spike. I honestly don't have enough information to know myself, so what I posted originally may have been off-base.

I still say we won't know until we're truly past this disease and a vaccine is available as to who handled it better.

[smootness]

For the record, I don't think there's any doubt South Korea is the model for this. There is a debate to be had as to whether or not their culture has helped and what level of government authority and oversight we want; after all, they are updating people on where their neighbors and locals who have had the virus are going, and I'm not sure we'd ever be ok with that.

But in terms of preparedness, they are a model we should do everything we can to emulate so we're prepared the next time something like this comes along.

[hacker]

Norway's testing isn't close to the level South Korea's is or has been. They did a good job of shutting down early, and their results have shown that, but they'll have to test far more than they do right now if they hope to reopen. South Korea has tested over 10,000 per million and Norway is still under 1,000.

This is false.

Norway has tested 32,000 per million.
South Korea has tested 12,000 per million.

[smootness]

This is false.

Norway has tested 32,000 per million.
South Korea has tested 12,000 per million.

Yeah, I just edited my prior post. I got data from the wrong place.

But testing is only one part of the equation. South Korea has a system much better designed to test and then contact trace than I believe Norway has.

Even the US is now testing people at a higher rate than South Korea, but it won't mean much because we don't have a similar system in place to trace and isolate those who have it or have come in contact with it.

[hacker]

Norway tested around 3250 people yesterday and found 24 positive cases.

[hacker]

I could be wrong, but Norway appears to be doing all of the right things. They have contact tracing apps that use GPS and bluetooth just like SK.

Going back to my original point, I don't think it's fair to say they'll "undoubtedly" have a spike. I think it's more like a strong "maybe."

[smootness]

Again, in regard to actual lockdown measures, South Korea mirrored Sweden to a great deal. They weren't as restrictive as most countries. The difference was testing and contact tracing put in place early and a citizenry more apt to do what they're told to do and follow suggestions. They also have a recent history they're trying to avoid that's probably provided some motivation.

Should Sweden have shut down similar to Norway because they didn't have that level of testing and contact tracing in place from the beginning? Perhaps. That's a strong argument. I just refuse to say anything until this whole thing is over, and I'm fascinated to watch it unfurl.

[Jack Lambert]

For the record, I don't think there's any doubt South Korea is the model for this. There is a debate to be had as to whether or not their culture has helped and what level of government authority and oversight we want; after all, they are updating people on where their neighbors and locals who have had the virus are going, and I'm not sure we'd ever be ok with that.

But in terms of preparedness, they are a model we should do everything we can to emulate so we're prepared the next time something like this comes along.

I don't believe any one country is a model. I think each country is going to have to look back when it is over and do what is right for their country. Korea is nothing like the United States. We have way more people and way more different race in our country. From what have heard Blacks are more affected by this then whites or asians. Just how many blacks does Korea have? I just don't think one glove is going to fit every hand. I said this on a message board somewhere or face book but we went into this pandemic fighting it like the last pandemic. Big mistake! It's a lot like Katrina. Insurance companies used Camille as the model and it was way off. The United States military use to go into wars with one arm tied behind it back by fighting the next war with tactics used int the last war. They don't do that anymore. I think the CDC is going to plan a little different going forward.

[hacker]

Again, in regard to actual lockdown measures, South Korea mirrored Sweden to a great deal. They weren't as restrictive as most countries. The difference was testing and contact tracing put in place early and a citizenry more apt to do what they're told to do and follow suggestions. They also have a recent history they're trying to avoid that's probably provided some motivation.

Should Sweden have shut down similar to Norway because they didn't have that level of testing and contact tracing in place from the beginning? Perhaps. That's a strong argument. I just refuse to say anything until this whole thing is over, and I'm fascinated to watch it unfurl.

This is all true, and I agree, it's fascinating to me as well.

I believe that Norway is going to fare better than Sweden based on the evidence I've seen. But I don't mind being wrong.

I've said this from the beginning: the Asian countries have fared a lot better due to experience and cultural differences.

The next time this happens, I bet we'll do better due to experience as well. It won't take 2 months for people to get over the mask stigma, etc. Our culture is changing too.

[smootness]

If you can't tell, I'm fascinated by this whole thing and by the discussion.

One other interesting thing is that, while Sweden's deaths per million is about 6.5 times higher than Norway's, despite only about double the population, their number of confirmed cases is only about 2.7 times higher than Norway's, which is much more in line with the population difference. Sweden has had about 2,000 cases per million compared to Norway's 1,400.

Now, some of this is due to Norway's higher rate of testing. But Sweden is testing a lot as well. So it may be that it's somewhat explained, too, by Sweden's high level of outbreak in older care facilities, which they have admitted is a problem they will have to assess.

We assume this hits every country the same, but it doesn't.

[smootness]

Likewise, out of 7,500 reported active cases in Norway, 37 are serious or critical. Out of 17,500 reported active cases in Sweden, 531 are serious or critical. That doesn't add up unless there are differences in the way it's affected the population.

[hacker]

If you can't tell, I'm fascinated by this whole thing and by the discussion.

One other interesting thing is that, while Sweden's deaths per million is about 6.5 times higher than Norway's, despite only about double the population, their number of confirmed cases is only about 2.7 times higher than Norway's, which is much more in line with the population difference. Sweden has had about 2,000 cases per million compared to Norway's 1,400.

Now, some of this is due to Norway's higher rate of testing. But Sweden is testing a lot as well. So it may be that it's somewhat explained, too, by Sweden's high level of outbreak in older care facilities, which they have admitted is a problem they will have to assess.

We assume this hits every country the same, but it doesn't.

Norway's tested 3 times as many people per million which I think makes a big difference in case counts. I don't think there are many people infected in Norway that haven't tested positive.

Norway's positive test rate was 0.7% yesterday and 1.5% the day before
Sweden's positive test rate over the most recent week they released testing data was 14.5%

[confucius say]

I know there are hundreds of different kind of tests. Ummc created its own. Is there any data or belief as to whether some country's tests are better than others?

[Schultzy]

Maximum Emotional Impact, now we know how to bring down a superpower.

[hacker]

Story on chicken plants in Carthage and Forest

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2020/05/01/mississippi-coronavirus-disease-spreads-among-chicken-plant-workers/3041482001/

[smootness]

Story on chicken plants in Carthage and Forest

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2020/05/01/mississippi-coronavirus-disease-spreads-among-chicken-plant-workers/3041482001/

Man, that's rough. There's no doubt we need to continue ramping up testing, and it needs to be made available at places like this that are crucial to the supply chain.

[Johnson85]

Keep in mind, too, though, that Sweden has double the population of Norway and a higher population density. A lot of their impact is happening in Stockholm, similar to the US with New York, which is much bigger than any city in Norway and has much greater population density.



Comparing countries is natural, but it's not really useful information in a lot of instances. The right level of comparison is probably something like MSAs. It may be fair to say NYC didn't do a good job with the Wuhan virus, but it's also fair to say they had tough choices that most places don't have to grapple with. THe subway and public transit was apparentlly a major distributor of the virus. But if you shut it down, you are putting a lot of people in a very bad situation. What they did was worse; cutting capacity in half assured that each car/bus would be morem crowded, but I can see how it seemed natural to the MTA to run at half capacity when the passenger count was more than halved.

To compare Norway and Sweden, you probably need to compare comparable MSAs, but even that doesn't tell you a ton without doing a lot of analysis. Plenty of similar MSAs with similar responses have significantly different stats driven largely by luck. Detroit is not worse than Baltimore b/c it's worse run (they are both probably pretty close to the limit on how poorly they can be run), they're worse because they have more traffic with China b/c of the auto manufacturing industry.

[hacker]

Comparing countries is natural, but it's not really useful information in a lot of instances. The right level of comparison is probably something like MSAs. It may be fair to say NYC didn't do a good job with the Wuhan virus, but it's also fair to say they had tough choices that most places don't have to grapple with. THe subway and public transit was apparentlly a major distributor of the virus. But if you shut it down, you are putting a lot of people in a very bad situation. What they did was worse; cutting capacity in half assured that each car/bus would be morem crowded, but I can see how it seemed natural to the MTA to run at half capacity when the passenger count was more than halved.

To compare Norway and Sweden, you probably need to compare comparable MSAs, but even that doesn't tell you a ton without doing a lot of analysis. Plenty of similar MSAs with similar responses have significantly different stats driven largely by luck. Detroit is not worse than Baltimore b/c it's worse run (they are both probably pretty close to the limit on how poorly they can be run), they're worse because they have more traffic with China b/c of the auto manufacturing industry.

Hard stopped reading at "wuhan virus"

And no, not because I think it's racist, but because I think it's a dumb attempt to shift blame. Nobody called it that until shit started getting bad here.

[turkish]

People were calling it that well before it was triggering the SJW. Then it sort of ramped up after.

[Johnson85]

Hard stopped reading at "wuhan virus"

And no, not because I think it's racist, but because I think it's a dumb attempt to shift blame. Nobody called it that until shit started getting bad here.

If you want to be emotional and let that cause you to be dumb, that's your business. But you do realize that China is sort of a large place and calling it the China virus is not very specific? We don't call Ebola the "Africa hemorrhagic fever". We don't even call Marburg the "German hemorrhagic fever", even though Germany is quite a bit smaller than China.

When Ebola Reston was named, do you really think people were blaming the people of Virginia? Or do you think it's possible they just weren't made dumb by an attempt to view non-political facts through political lenses?

[hacker]

If you want to be emotional and let that cause you to be dumb, that's your business. But you do realize that China is sort of a large place and calling it the China virus is not very specific? We don't call Ebola the "Africa hemorrhagic fever". We don't even call Marburg the "German hemorrhagic fever", even though Germany is quite a bit smaller than China.

When Ebola Reston was named, do you really think people were blaming the people of Virginia? Or do you think it's possible they just weren't made dumb by an attempt to view non-political facts through political lenses?

Or you could call it coronavirus / covid-19 / SARS-CoV-2 like everyone has been calling it from the beginning

[hacker]

Anyway.

Looks like MS is including "probable" deaths now too.

As a reminder, this means that medical examiner put this on their death certificate.

As another reminder, nobody is getting money for these dead bodies that have covid listed on their death certificate. The money is only for hospitals with actual positive tests. Since these dead people did not test positive, there is no money.

New cases reported today: 397
New deaths reported today: 20 *
* 11 of the deaths reported today occurred between March 29 and April 16, and are based on death certificate investigations.

Also highest number of cases reported so far.

Scott County: 339 total cases, 1.2% of the population has tested positive

[Johnson85]

Or you could call it coronavirus / covid-19 / SARS-CoV-2 like everyone has been calling it from the beginning

That's not what people have been calling it from the beginning.

But ignoring that, coronavirus is fine for now; people assume you are talking about Wuhan coronavirus and not corona viruses in general, but of course it's either inaccurate or at best imprecise. Doesn't matter now but it won't be a good term when it's not front and center unless we make coronavirus no longer a useful term for it's technical meaning.

Covid 19 is fine. People know what you are talking about. It's specific enough that it will continue to be correct. Maybe we never have another novel corona virus become and issue and people generally remember what Covid 19 is referencing 20 and 30 years down the road. Certainly wouldn't think other people should be obligated to use something other than Covid 19. But there's not really a good reason to break with convention, and certainly only somebody being made dumb by partisanship would try to insist that other people break with convention.

SARS-Cov-2 is just idiotic outside of a scientific paper, or maybe as an aside in a lay article before reverting to a more useful naming convention. Other than blind partisanship and being jerked around like a puppet, what would ever make you think it's reasonable to expect people to forego normal naming conventions that are easily understandable and easy to use, to replace it with SARS-CoV-2?

ETA: And I've used every term but Sars-Cov-2 in verbal conversations and in writing, and I've also used just "Covid". Use whatever you'd like. Just don't be a puppet and complain about other people using easy to comprehend and accurate language.

[dawgday166]

That's not what people have been calling it from the beginning.

But ignoring that, coronavirus is fine for now; people assume you are talking about Wuhan coronavirus and not corona viruses in general, but of course it's either inaccurate or at best imprecise. Doesn't matter now but it won't be a good term when it's not front and center unless we make coronavirus no longer a useful term for it's technical meaning.

Covid 19 is fine. People know what you are talking about. It's specific enough that it will continue to be correct. Maybe we never have another novel corona virus become and issue and people generally remember what Covid 19 is referencing 20 and 30 years down the road. Certainly wouldn't think other people should be obligated to use something other than Covid 19. But there's not really a good reason to break with convention, and certainly only somebody being made dumb by partisanship would try to insist that other people break with convention.

SARS-Cov-2 is just idiotic outside of a scientific paper, or maybe as an aside in a lay article before reverting to a more useful naming convention. Other than blind partisanship and being jerked around like a puppet, what would ever make you think it's reasonable to expect people to forego normal naming conventions that are easily understandable and easy to use, to replace it with SARS-CoV-2?

I'm sorta partial to Wuhan virus myself. That informs me of which coronavirus or covid virus we're talking about and ... It can produce deaths at a higher rate than the others.

[starkvegasdawg]

Anyway.

Looks like MS is including "probable" deaths now too.

As a reminder, this means that medical examiner put this on their death certificate.

As another reminder, nobody is getting money for these dead bodies that have covid listed on their death certificate. The money is only for hospitals with actual positive tests. Since these dead people did not test positive, there is no money.

New cases reported today: 397
New deaths reported today: 20 *
* 11 of the deaths reported today occurred between March 29 and April 16, and are based on death certificate investigations.

Also highest number of cases reported so far.

Scott County: 339 total cases, 1.2% of the population has tested positive

Time to open this bitch back up.***

[dawgday166]

Time to open this bitch back up.***

Agree ... Open the **** up.

[Homedawg]

Agree ... Open the **** up.

I still want answer from those who think nothing should open back up, when is it ok to open up? The county w the largest amount of positive is 1.2%. So we sit tight until when?? Our economy is going to be brutal. Might crash anyway. But if we lock down any longer I assure you we are toast. More people are going to die. I get it. But social distancing was never designed to stop the virus, nor deaths. Just slow it. That's been done. And yes w had the highest number of cases yesterday. Again I get it. Prior to that we've been flat for a while w some small ups and downs. I'll say this again, the economic crisis from this will be 100x greater than the virus itself....

[msstate7]

I still want answer from those who think nothing should open back up, when is it ok to open up? The county w the largest amount of positive is 1.2%. So we sit tight until when?? Our economy is going to be brutal. Might crash anyway. But if we lock down any longer I assure you we are toast. More people are going to die. I get it. But social distancing was never designed to stop the virus, nor deaths. Just slow it. That's been done. And yes w had the highest number of cases yesterday. Again I get it. Prior to that we've been flat for a while w some small ups and downs. I'll say this again, the economic crisis from this will be 100x greater than the virus itself....

Just keep printing that money. Grandkids may end up speaking Chinese, but whatever...

[confucius say]

Anyway.

Looks like MS is including "probable" deaths now too.

As a reminder, this means that medical examiner put this on their death certificate.

As another reminder, nobody is getting money for these dead bodies that have covid listed on their death certificate. The money is only for hospitals with actual positive tests. Since these dead people did not test positive, there is no money.

New cases reported today: 397
New deaths reported today: 20 *
* 11 of the deaths reported today occurred between March 29 and April 16, and are based on death certificate investigations.

Also highest number of cases reported so far.

Scott County: 339 total cases, 1.2% of the population has tested positive

You don't have to have a positive lab confirmed test to get money for covid patients as a hospital under CARES.

ETA: below link is a good read on the CDC guidance under the CARES and how hospitals are reimbursed. It is acceptable to report deaths as covid 19 deaths without a positive test if it is likely or suspected the death was covid 19 related, even where the patient tested negative if it is suspected there was a false negative.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

[Dawg2003]

379 cases today in Mississippi. Are we hitting our peak?

[msstate7]

On the 397 new cases today, doesn't there seem to be one day a week where there a good bit more cases than the others? Do we happen to get outside testing numbers once a week or something?

[starkvegasdawg]

The way this has been handled from the beginning has been completely balls up. They did this half assed approach trying to straddle the fence of protecting the economy and slowing the spread. All they did was 17 up. They needed to do a real shut down two months ago for 2-3 weeks. Then we could probably be opening back up and getting the economy going. But all they did was destroy the economy and do next to nothing to slow the spread.

[Commercecomet24]

I still want answer from those who think nothing should open back up, when is it ok to open up? The county w the largest amount of positive is 1.2%. So we sit tight until when?? Our economy is going to be brutal. Might crash anyway. But if we lock down any longer I assure you we are toast. More people are going to die. I get it. But social distancing was never designed to stop the virus, nor deaths. Just slow it. That's been done. And yes w had the highest number of cases yesterday. Again I get it. Prior to that we've been flat for a while w some small ups and downs. I'll say this again, the economic crisis from this will be 100x greater than the virus itself....

This.

[Commercecomet24]

Just keep printing that money. Grandkids may end up speaking Chinese, but whatever...

And this.

[Dawg2003]

I still want answer from those who think nothing should open back up, when is it ok to open up? The county w the largest amount of positive is 1.2%. So we sit tight until when?? Our economy is going to be brutal. Might crash anyway. But if we lock down any longer I assure you we are toast. More people are going to die. I get it. But social distancing was never designed to stop the virus, nor deaths. Just slow it. That's been done. And yes w had the highest number of cases yesterday. Again I get it. Prior to that we've been flat for a while w some small ups and downs. I'll say this again, the economic crisis from this will be 100x greater than the virus itself....

I have zero problem with opening it up like Sweden and just letting it burn through the population. However, I am in PPE at work and can stay home during the week. So it's unlikely I'll suffer the health consequences of opening up completely. I can watch from the window as other people get coronavirus, and we develop heard immunity. If other people want to be the sacrificial lambs, I won't stand in their way.

[Homedawg]

The way this has been handled from the beginning has been completely balls up. They did this half assed approach trying to straddle the fence of protecting the economy and slowing the spread. All they did was 17 up. They needed to do a real shut down two months ago for 2-3 weeks. Then we could probably be opening back up and getting the economy going. But all they did was destroy the economy and do next to nothing to slow the spread.

Oh it's slowed the spread, that's no in question. But there is zero way to lock everyone down all the time for 3 weeks. Police, healthcare, electricity people, and obviously people have to go to the grocery. Even if you limit it to that, that's not a lockdown. Italy went as far on a lockdown as possible, it didn't stop there.

[msstate7]

I have zero problem with opening it up like Sweden and just letting it burn through the population. However, I am in PPE at work and can stay home during the week. So it's unlikely I'll suffer the health consequences of opening up completely. I can watch from the window as other people get coronavirus, and we develop heard immunity. If other people want to be the sacrificial lambs, I won't stand in their way.

Let's shut down Walmarts, grocery stores, restaurants, and food processing too. Why should they be "sacrificial lambs"?

ETA... we won't. We can't. Well I think we're at the point where we have to open up for the same reason, we have to

[Liverpooldawg]

The case number isn't really the one that drives decision making. The numbers that matter are hospitalization numbers and ICU numbers. The hospitalization numbers have been trending up and show no sign of leveling off yet. The ICU numbers are steady.

[confucius say]

The case number isn't really the one that drives decision making. The numbers that matter are hospitalization numbers and ICU numbers. The hospitalization numbers have been trending up and show no sign of leveling off yet. The ICU numbers are steady.

It is interesting to me that icu numbers have not risen and ventilator use has actually decreased, all while hospitalizations have risen sharply. Does that suggest that a treatment once hospitalized is working so as to avoid icu or ventilator use?

[msstate7]

It is interesting to me that icu numbers have not risen and ventilator use has actually decreased, all while hospitalizations have risen sharply. Does that suggest that a treatment once hospitalized is working so as to avoid icu or ventilator use?

Or (here comes the conspiracy theory) the hospital wants the 20% premium for a hospitalization. I don't wanna believe our medical people would do this though.

[Commercecomet24]

It is interesting to me that icu numbers have not risen and ventilator use has actually decreased, all while hospitalizations have risen sharply. Does that suggest that a treatment once hospitalized is working so as to avoid icu or ventilator use?

Or hospitals are just admitting more people with less severe symptoms for treatment than before.

[confucius say]

Or hospitals are just admitting more people with less severe symptoms for treatment than before.

Possibly. Lot of hospitals were empty and laying people off

[Commercecomet24]

Possibly. Lot of hospitals were empty and laying people off

Correct. Empty beds and staff being laid off. Hopefully treatments of this are becoming more successful.

[Dawg2003]

Let's shut down Walmarts, grocery stores, restaurants, and food processing too. Why should they be "sacrificial lambs"?

ETA... we won't. We can't. Well I think we're at the point where we have to open up for the same reason, we have to

We don't really have a choice but to open it up IMO. We need 60-70% for herd immunity, so someone's got to take the fall. I personally am not willing to roll the dice, but, if others want to, I have no problem with that.

[Dawg2003]

Or hospitals are just admitting more people with less severe symptoms for treatment than before.

That's very unlikely because hospitals lose money doing that. Hospitals don't want to admit mamaw with pneumonia.

[Dawg2003]

Or hospitals are just admitting more people with less severe symptoms for treatment than before.

That's very unlikely because hospitals lose money doing that. Hospitals don't want to admit mamaw with pneumonia.

[Joebob]

I still want answer from those who think nothing should open back up, when is it ok to open up? The county w the largest amount of positive is 1.2%. So we sit tight until when?? Our economy is going to be brutal. Might crash anyway. But if we lock down any longer I assure you we are toast. More people are going to die. I get it. But social distancing was never designed to stop the virus, nor deaths. Just slow it. That's been done. And yes w had the highest number of cases yesterday. Again I get it. Prior to that we've been flat for a while w some small ups and downs. I'll say this again, the economic crisis from this will be 100x greater than the virus itself....

The Federal guidelines were a pretty good guide to knowing when to open things up, but nobody had the patience or the willpower to follow them. Hopefully the new state and local business regulations will be good enough to keep a new outbreak under reasonable control while still allowing some commerce to take place, but business owners are going to get tired of those too. We’ll just have to see how all this plays out.

[dawgday166]

Just keep printing that money. Grandkids may end up speaking Chinese, but whatever...

Hell, it won't be our grandkids speaking Chinese it'll be hacker and dano ... If they don't already *

[Commercecomet24]

That's very unlikely because hospitals lose money doing that. Hospitals don't want to admit mamaw with pneumonia.

I'm talking about admitting postive covid patients with less severe symptoms than before, not just people off the street.

[confucius say]

That's very unlikely because hospitals lose money doing that. Hospitals don't want to admit mamaw with pneumonia.

But if they admit mamaw as a covid patient they make money and get a 20% higher premium payment, no?

[Commercecomet24]

But if they admit mamaw as a covid patient they make money and get a 20% higher premium payment, no?

Exactly.

[Todd4State]

It is interesting to me that icu numbers have not risen and ventilator use has actually decreased, all while hospitalizations have risen sharply. Does that suggest that a treatment once hospitalized is working so as to avoid icu or ventilator use?

From what I am seeing most people- even the ones that go to the hospital don't have to be put on a vent. Most of the patients I'm seeing are either morbidly obese or elderly. I've had a couple of exceptions but the vast majority are in one of those two categories.

[Dawg2003]

But if they admit mamaw as a covid patient they make money and get a 20% higher premium payment, no?

No because those types of patients drain the system. No one would admit that type of patient for the fun of it. It's expensive to take care of those types of patients. The hospital makes money from elective procedures and surgeries. If you come in for pneumonia, they are literally plotting how to get you out once you hit the door. Hospitals hate those types of patients.

[confucius say]

No because those types of patients drain the system. No one would admit that type of patient for the fun of it. It's expensive to take care of those types of patients. The hospital makes money from elective procedures and surgeries. If you come in for pneumonia, they are literally plotting how to get you out once you hit the door. Hospitals hate those types of patients.

Got ya

[Dawg2003]

I'm talking about admitting postive covid patients with less severe symptoms than before, not just people off the street.

I just don't see that happening. For one, administrators would have a fit because they are usually trying to get rid of patients. Two, you're saying a physician is falsely admitting and keeping a patient on a lockdown unit away from family. I haven't seen any of that happening in my hospital. They are trying to discharge as many COVID patients as possible, so they can get back to elective surgeries.

[Commercecomet24]

I just don't see that happening. For one, administrators would have a fit because they are usually trying to get rid of patients. Two, you're saying a physician is falsely admitting and keeping a patient on a lockdown unit away from family. I haven't seen any of that happening in my hospital. They are trying to discharge as many COVID patients as possible, so they can get back to elective surgeries.

Hospital beds have been sitting empty. I can tell you for a fact hospital admins don't like empty beds period. Where did you hear me say falsely admitting? I said positive covid patients being admitted for treament, nothing false about that at all.

ETA I do agree with you during normal times that yes elective surgeries are the money makers but these haven't been normal times.

[Johnson85]

The Federal guidelines were a pretty good guide to knowing when to open things up, but nobody had the patience or the willpower to follow them. Hopefully the new state and local business regulations will be good enough to keep a new outbreak under reasonable control while still allowing some commerce to take place, but business owners are going to get tired of those too. We?ll just have to see how all this plays out.

The federal guidelines allowed for adjustment based on local conditions. If you're in NYC, yea, you probably need to see declining cases for two weeks before opening back up (although as long as you're running the subway, I'm not sure how much god locking down everything else does). IF you're in a place with empty hospitals and a small number of cases, there's no reason to spend another 3 or 4 weeks waiting to see declining cases while your hospitals sit empty.

[confucius say]

What about the ongoing pissing match between Tate and the speaker, Gunn, and delbert about whether the gov or the legislature should have the say so where the 1.25 billion in federal funds is allocated (if that is discussable)? Thoughts?

[Gutter Cobreh]

Hospital beds have been sitting empty. I can tell you for a fact hospital admins don't like empty beds period. Where did you hear me say falsely admitting? I said positive covid patients being admitted for treament, nothing false about that at all.

ETA I do agree with you during normal times that yes elective surgeries are the money makers but these haven't been normal times.

As others have said, hospitals aren't admitting patients unless there is a need. If anything, they're pushing patients home to self-monitor and quarantine. Regardless of reimbursement level, it wouldn't be covering the cost of providing care.

Add to that if you live in an area where you have more than one hospital, do you think administrators want to be known in the community as having a high inpatient COVID population? How would that work when restrictions ease and elective surgeries begin? You think the general population is going to want to have that procedure in a place with a low or high COVID population? In my opinion, the hospitals do a great job of isolation so it wouldn't matter - but to those health illiterate - it will matter to them.

[Jack Lambert]

What about the ongoing pissing match between Tate and the speaker, Gunn, and delbert about whether the gov or the legislature should have the say so where the 1.25 billion in federal funds is allocated (if that is discussable)? Thoughts?

It's just like disaster money that comes to the state from the federal goverment. I believe the Governor controls it.

[Jack Lambert]

As others have said, hospitals aren't admitting patients unless there is a need. If anything, they're pushing patients home to self-monitor and quarantine. Regardless of reimbursement level, it wouldn't be covering the cost of providing care.

Add to that if you live in an area where you have more than one hospital, do you think administrators want to be known in the community as having a high inpatient COVID population? How would that work when restrictions ease and elective surgeries begin? You think the general population is going to want to have that procedure in a place with a low or high COVID population? In my opinion, the hospitals do a great job of isolation so it wouldn't matter - but to those health illiterate - it will matter to them.

Is NY going to get hammered? All those Seniors dying in Nursing homes with all those hospital beds empty.

[confucius say]

It's just like disaster money that comes to the state from the federal goverment. I believe the Governor controls it.

I tend to agree. As does the law. That is why the legislature convened today, after sitting on their collective asses for 7 weeks as non-essential workers, to try and change a decades old law that gives the gov the power in these situations. I'm no Tate fan, but what the legislature tried to do today after cowering in the corner like puss**s for the last 7 weeks is sickening.

[Jack Lambert]

I tend to agree. As does the law. That is why the legislature convened today, after sitting on their collective asses for 7 weeks as non-essential workers, to try and change a decades old law that gives the gov the power in these situations. I'm no Tate fan, but what the legislature tried to do today after cowering in the corner like puss**s for the last 7 weeks is sickening.

1.8 billion is a lot of money for Mississippi. Tax revenue is going to bed own this year and it is going to put a squeeze on next years budget. I guess they are just looking ahead but I really believe it is and was intended for the virus disaster.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Is NY going to get hammered? All those Seniors dying in Nursing homes with all those hospital beds empty.

I don't know about NY, but if a nursing home resident gets sick enough - they're headed to the hospital. The nursing homes aren't equipped to provide the level of care. As of today, nursing homes in Georgia have reported 3,457 cases of the virus - with 511 deaths.

While this shows a 14.7% death rate for those infected, I don't know how many total are in a nursing home within the state.

https://dch.georgia.gov/announcement/2020-05-01/long-term-care-facility-covid-19-report

[Jack Lambert]

I don't know about NY, but if a nursing home resident gets sick enough - they're headed to the hospital. The nursing homes aren't equipped to provide the level of care. As of today, nursing homes in Georgia have reported 3,457 cases of the virus - with 511 deaths.

While this shows a 14.7% death rate for those infected, I don't know how many total are in a nursing home within the state.

https://dch.georgia.gov/announcement/2020-05-01/long-term-care-facility-covid-19-report

I saw a report that 13% of NY death took place in Nursing home.

[Wade Garrett]

My sister has been working as a NP in NY for a month and they sent her home due to lack of patients. I know 3 other nurseS same thing.

[dantheman4248]

Hell, it won't be our grandkids speaking Chinese it'll be hacker and dano ... If they don't already *

Don't you find it interesting that our criticisms and fears of the "other side" is pretty much the same? Chinese already have the rich in their back pocket. See: movies, nba, etc. Can't get cheap labor in US, just outsource. One of deals I liked with Trump on campaign trail was attacking this, but he's moved the needle almost none with regards to tariffing china.

But the overall point that I think you should realize is my "enemy" isn't you. It's the elite rich. It's China. It's Putin. It's those who would attack the working class which make up the back bone of the economy but don't realize it.

And trust me, ain't a ******* person on elitedawgs or any of their grandkids will ever be in the elite rich category. Best trick the elite rich ever pulled was convincing working class people they aren't poor, just temporarily embarrassed rich people. Gotta protect the rich because when it's me one day I won't want people grabbing at my billions. Smh.

[Cooterpoot]

I just don't see that happening. For one, administrators would have a fit because they are usually trying to get rid of patients. Two, you're saying a physician is falsely admitting and keeping a patient on a lockdown unit away from family. I haven't seen any of that happening in my hospital. They are trying to discharge as many COVID patients as possible, so they can get back to elective surgeries.

I've seen it. One hospital has two floors full of COVID and about to add a third. Another has their highest census of COVID they've had since this started. Now that UMMC is turning tests around same day, things are moving faster. Elective surgeries are starting at both places. They have to make money. They're on the verge of furloughing and cutting staff. They have no choice. Lots of empty beds equals no money. No money closes the doors.

[Commercecomet24]

I've seen it. One hospital has two floors full of COVID and about to add a third. Another has their highest census of COVID they've had since this started. Now that UMMC is turning tests around same day, things are moving faster. Elective surgeries are starting at both places. They have to make money. They're on the verge of furloughing and cutting staff. They have no choice. Lots of empty beds equals no money. No money closes the doors.

This is correct.

[hacker]

You don't have to have a positive lab confirmed test to get money for covid patients as a hospital under CARES.

ETA: below link is a good read on the CDC guidance under the CARES and how hospitals are reimbursed. It is acceptable to report deaths as covid 19 deaths without a positive test if it is likely or suspected the death was covid 19 related, even where the patient tested negative if it is suspected there was a false negative.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/

Which hospital is getting a check when somebody dies at home? Most of these "probable" deaths come from people dying at home.



Here's another good read on the subject:

"Are all Mississippi?s COVID-19 deaths being counted? No and here?s why."

https://www.sunherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242446196.html

Faulk is only one coroner in the state?s 82 counties. Coroners have had to mark deaths as suspected COVID-19 in cases where the deceased had not been tested for the virus.

Faulk and other county coroners have been unable to get testing kits from the state Health Department to test the deceased, they said. Faulk has made multiple telephone calls in an effort to track down tests, including to the local and state health departments.

Faulk said all four deaths he counted as suspected COVID-19 cases involved symptoms associated with the disease. He has completed 3,000 death investigations since 2012 and has never had a case where someone died at home from the flu.

[confucius say]

Hack, I think our death numbers are going to jump bc we are going to review death certificates and add those suspected deaths to our total. Of the 20 deaths yesterday, 11 were actually from late March or early April where we went back and looked at death certificates.

[hacker]

Hack, I think our death numbers are going to jump bc we are going to review death certificates and add those suspected deaths to our total. Of the 20 deaths yesterday, 11 were actually from late March or early April where we went back and looked at death certificates.

Yeah, I think my post about that yesterday is what started our replies to each other.

People say these probable deaths are inflating the numbers and I was trying to argue against that. Coroners are looking at these bodies and putting covid on their death certificates. They just don't have tests for them. Pretty much exactly what they do for all deaths.

And there's no money incentive for inflating the numbers since most of these probable deaths are people who have died at home.

And for what it's worth, the CDC calculates flu deaths with an algorithm.

[confucius say]

Yeah, I think my post about that yesterday is what started our replies to each other.

People say these probable deaths are inflating the numbers and I was trying to argue against that. Coroners are looking at these bodies and putting covid on their death certificates. They just don't have tests for them. Pretty much exactly what they do for all deaths.

And there's no money incentive for inflating the numbers since most of these probable deaths are people who have died at home.

And for what it's worth, the CDC calculates flu deaths with an algorithm.

I think the problem is that the legal possibility is there under the law to inflate the death numbers if a hospital wanted to by chalking up deaths to covid when the death may or may not be covid, but I'm not aware of that happening thus far and have seen no allegations of it.

Will be interesting to see if MS continues to go back and look at death certificates and add death cases retroactively.

[Dawgology]

I hate to tell you guys but I went out and about today. I’ve elected to avoid the news the past two days. I took hand cleaner with me and me and my wife and kids went for a drive. Stopped and grabbed some groceries. Went geocaching. Sightseeing. There was plenty of food, meat, and veggies in the shelves. Gas was 1.50. We cleaned our hands and wore masks at the grocery store...as did everyone else that was there.

Ends up...it’s not the end of the world. The USA will keep moving and will thrive again. If I wasn’t wearing a mask in the grocery store and cleaning my hands when I touched something public it would have just been another day...

[Todd4State]

I hate to tell you guys but I went out and about today. I’ve elected to avoid the news the past two days. I took hand cleaner with me and me and my wife and kids went for a drive. Stopped and grabbed some groceries. Went geocaching. Sightseeing. There was plenty of food, meat, and veggies in the shelves. Gas was 1.50. We cleaned our hands and wore masks at the grocery store...as did everyone else that was there.

Ends up...it’s not the end of the world. The USA will keep moving and will thrive again. If I wasn’t wearing a mask in the grocery store and cleaning my hands when I touched something public it would have just been another day...

Yeah. At some point people are going to say enough is enough and just go on with life.

[Todd4State]

I've seen it. One hospital has two floors full of COVID and about to add a third. Another has their highest census of COVID they've had since this started. Now that UMMC is turning tests around same day, things are moving faster. Elective surgeries are starting at both places. They have to make money. They're on the verge of furloughing and cutting staff. They have no choice. Lots of empty beds equals no money. No money closes the doors.

Yep. And while hospitals are in the business of helping people- there is a business side to it too.

Person who is a nursing home patient who has a history of multiple strokes and in in their 90's also tests positive for Coronavirus passes away. PROVE that this person didn't die of Coronavirus. The agencies can't. And really the hospital can't either so they've washed their hands ethically. Then they get their money.

[Commercecomet24]

Yep. And while hospitals are in the business of helping people- there is a business side to it too.

Person who is a nursing home patient who has a history of multiple strokes and in in their 90's also tests positive for Coronavirus passes away. PROVE that this person didn't die of Coronavirus. The agencies can't. And really the hospital can't either so they've washed their hands ethically. Then they get their money.

Exactly. Hospitals and staff are there to help people but if you can't stay in business you ain't gonna be helping anyone.

[Dawg2003]

I've seen it. One hospital has two floors full of COVID and about to add a third. Another has their highest census of COVID they've had since this started. Now that UMMC is turning tests around same day, things are moving faster. Elective surgeries are starting at both places. They have to make money. They're on the verge of furloughing and cutting staff. They have no choice. Lots of empty beds equals no money. No money closes the doors.

So physicians are fraudulently saying people have COVID?

[Todd4State]

So physicians are fraudulently saying people have COVID?

Again it's not fraudulent if they have a positive COVID test because it can't be assumed that they didn't die of COVID especially if they come to the hospital with it. Now maybe they did or maybe they didn't but it's no different than not being able to prove something in the legal world.

If they get taken to court over it the hospital's lawyers will just show the patient record with the positive COVID test and then everyone will go home.

Also- it's not ethical to provide services and then not claim reimbursement for services provided. That's the other side of the coin.

[Todd4State]

Exactly. Hospitals and staff are there to help people but if you can't stay in business you ain't gonna be helping anyone.

Yes. Unfortunately we don't live in a fairy tale world.

[dawgday166]

Yep. And while hospitals are in the business of helping people- there is a business side to it too.

Person who is a nursing home patient who has a history of multiple strokes and in in their 90's also tests positive for Coronavirus passes away. PROVE that this person didn't die of Coronavirus. The agencies can't. And really the hospital can't either so they've washed their hands ethically. Then they get their money.

hacker will be along shortly with some stats and links to articles for you to look at and read.

[confucius say]

Again it's not fraudulent if they have a positive COVID test because it can't be assumed that they didn't die of COVID especially if they come to the hospital with it. Now maybe they did or maybe they didn't but it's no different than not being able to prove something in the legal world.

If they get taken to court over it the hospital's lawyers will just show the patient record with the positive COVID test and then everyone will go home.

Also- it's not ethical to provide services and then not claim reimbursement for services provided. That's the other side of the coin.

They don't have to have a positive test for it not to be fraudulent. As long as the symptoms line up with those of covid, CARES allows for it to be categorized as covid.

[Jack Lambert]

I hate to tell you guys but I went out and about today. I’ve elected to avoid the news the past two days. I took hand cleaner with me and me and my wife and kids went for a drive. Stopped and grabbed some groceries. Went geocaching. Sightseeing. There was plenty of food, meat, and veggies in the shelves. Gas was 1.50. We cleaned our hands and wore masks at the grocery store...as did everyone else that was there.

Ends up...it’s not the end of the world. The USA will keep moving and will thrive again. If I wasn’t wearing a mask in the grocery store and cleaning my hands when I touched something public it would have just been another day...

My wife and I road down to Windsor ruins yesterday. I have to say enjoyed the ride. There were porbably 15 others there when we got there.

[Homedawg]

Yeah. At some point people are going to say enough is enough and just go on with life.

This^. This isn't the plague. We have to go on. Otherwise, we will be paying for services w pet rabbits.

[Commercecomet24]

This^. This isn't the plague. We have to go on. Otherwise, we will be paying for services w pet rabbits.

Yep! We headed for planet of the apes if we don't get going.

[Bass Chaser]

I don't think we know as much as we thought we did.

My Mom's nursing home had an employee show up for work with aches and pains but no fever. NH sent the EE home to go to the MD to be examined. MD said EE didn't need COVID test gave meds and released to work. NH tested EE as a precaution and EE tested positive.

I get weekly updates from the administrator via snail mail.

Does a symptomatic mean contagious? I haven't found a response that states asymptomatic means you can transfer COVID.

[Cooterpoot]

So physicians are fraudulently saying people have COVID?

No, but they aren't telling them to go home and self-quarantine like they were. They're admitting them more now.

[confucius say]

No, but they aren't telling them to go home and self-quarantine like they were. They're admitting them more now.

Would explain the spike in hospitalizations

[Commercecomet24]

No, but they aren't telling them to go home and self-quarantine like they were. They're admitting them more now.

This is exactly what's happening.

[Todd4State]

I don't think we know as much as we thought we did.

My Mom's nursing home had an employee show up for work with aches and pains but no fever. NH sent the EE home to go to the MD to be examined. MD said EE didn't need COVID test gave meds and released to work. NH tested EE as a precaution and EE tested positive.

I get weekly updates from the administrator via snail mail.

Does a symptomatic mean contagious? I haven't found a response that states asymptomatic means you can transfer COVID.

Symptomatic just means that you have symptoms of a disease and it's a general term.

In this case to answer your question- yes, this person is contagious since we are talking about Coronavirus.

[Liverpooldawg]

Just watched an Ofificer and Gentleman..., again..... sappy outstandingly good movie! If you don't like that one.. you are not an American.

[Commercecomet24]

Just watched an Ofificer and Gentleman..., again..... sappy outstandingly good movie! If you don't like that one.. you are not an American.

Great movie. Lou Gossett one of my favorites.

[Cooterpoot]

I had a previous co-worker (retired) who caught COVID about 10 days ago. She's 72, has COPD and kidney failure, along with other issues, and went on a vent. She came off the vent yesterday. Crazy how this virus doesn't kill someone like that.

[BeardoMSU]

Great movie. Lou Gossett one of my favorites.

Gossett in Iron Eagle and Enemy Mine...yes.

[BrunswickDawg]

I had a previous co-worker (retired) who caught COVID about 10 days ago. She's 72, has COPD and kidney failure, along with other issues, and went on a vent. She came off the vent yesterday. Crazy how this virus doesn't kill someone like that.

Some people are just tough as nails and their body won't quit. I had an uncle who was a fireman. That guy was a medical Rasputin. He had bouts with 4 different cancers, emphysema, a heart attack, and was stabbed, all in this 70s. Was dead on the table 3 times. Took a car wreck that wasn't his fault to kill him.

[defiantdog]

I don't think we know as much as we thought we did.

My Mom's nursing home had an employee show up for work with aches and pains but no fever. NH sent the EE home to go to the MD to be examined. MD said EE didn't need COVID test gave meds and released to work. NH tested EE as a precaution and EE tested positive.

I get weekly updates from the administrator via snail mail.

Does a symptomatic mean contagious? I haven't found a response that states asymptomatic means you can transfer COVID.
Symptoms are different with everyone. I never really had a fever but I could breath for 3 weeks. My admin assistant had a fever for an entire week but had no problem breathing. My son has a cough but no other symptoms. All Covid. If you show any symptom..... stay away from people. Not only are you risking others but you're also risking yourself of getting a high viral load.

[confucius say]

Symptoms are different with everyone. I never really had a fever but I could breath for 3 weeks. My admin assistant had a fever for an entire week but had no problem breathing. My son has a cough but no other symptoms. All Covid. If you show any symptom..... stay away from people. Not only are you risking others but you're also risking yourself of getting a high viral load.

It's crazy how it affects people so differently.
Especially older people but not children whose immune systems are still not strong. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but I understand how people could think it was modified to target a specific subset.

[Gutter Cobreh]

No, but they aren't telling them to go home and self-quarantine like they were. They're admitting them more now.

Where is your data to show this? I'd be interested in seeing where you see hospitalizations increasing.

[confucius say]

Where is your data to show this? I'd be interested in seeing where you see hospitalizations increasing.

Scroll down bout halfway to the chart that shows hospitalizations.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,0,420.html

[Gutter Cobreh]

Scroll down bout halfway to the chart that shows hospitalizations.

https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,0,420.html

Thanks for the information!

The chart looks like hospitalizations are dropping as of May 1st, so to Cooter's and Commmerce's how does this show that hospitals are admitting more patients to drive their revenues/reimbursements?

It looks like MS has a population of 3 million, 7,400+ confirmed cases, and only 424 currently hospitalized. Please explain again how hospitals are "gaming" the system and admitting patients that don't need to be? Seems like an awful low number of hospitalizations, as compared to either the overall census and confirmed cases.

[confucius say]

Thanks for the information!

The chart looks like hospitalizations are dropping as of May 1st, so to Cooter's and Commmerce's how does this show that hospitals are admitting more patients to drive their revenues/reimbursements?

It looks like MS has a population of 3 million, 7,400+ confirmed cases, and only 424 currently hospitalized. Please explain again how hospitals are "gaming" the system and admitting patients that don't need to be? Seems like an awful low number of hospitalizations, as compared to either the overall census and confirmed cases.

I think the point is if you look since mid April (when hospitals started laying people off for lack of business) the hospitalization numbers are up about 133% but ventilators are down and icu numbers have stayed the same

ETA: nearly 200%, or doubled, since April 12. All while icu has stayed steady and vents are down.

[Commercecomet24]

I think the point is if you look since mid April (when hospitals started laying people off for lack of business) the hospitalization numbers are up about 133% but ventilators are down and icu numbers have stayed the same

This is correct.

[Liverpooldawg]

I hate to tell you guys this but you just can't admit someone to the hospital just because you want to. Not if you want to get paid.

[Gutter Cobreh]

I think the point is if you look since mid April (when hospitals started laying people off for lack of business) the hospitalization numbers are up about 133% but ventilators are down and icu numbers have stayed the same

ETA: nearly 200%, or doubled, since April 12. All while icu has stayed steady and vents are down.

So you're saying that an increased hospitalization of 87 patients statewide between April 15th - May 1st is enough evidence for you to claim that all hospitals are admitting to increase revenue? Also, vents and ICUs are relatively flat during that time frame.

As has already been stated, there is a good chance nursing homes or long term care locations may be referring residents to hospitals to remove them from their situation and to get better care. This care doesn't have to be an ICU or a vent, but a hospital has more resources. It couldn't be that though could it; it has to be that hospitals are greedy and need the revenue.

I'm sure the reimbursement of 87 COVID patients will ensure that all the hospitals in MS will stay liquid....

[msstate7]

So you're saying that an increased hospitalization of 87 patients statewide between April 15th - May 1st is enough evidence for you to claim that all hospitals are admitting to increase revenue? Also, vents and ICUs are relatively flat during that time frame.

As has already been stated, there is a good chance nursing homes or long term care locations may be referring residents to hospitals to remove them from their situation and to get better care. This care doesn't have to be an ICU or a vent, but a hospital has more resources. It couldn't be that though could it; it has to be that hospitals are greedy and need the revenue.

I'm sure the reimbursement of 87 COVID patients will ensure that all the hospitals in MS will stay liquid....

I'm not saying hospitals are doing this or not, but this article says a woman's COVID treatments was $34,927.43. That times 87 is over 3 million dollars, so hardly insignificant