The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

[starkvegasdawg]

Yes, this is reasonable and that's the last time I put gas in my car too lol! I'm used to traveling and i've been in the office for a month now and my gas bill has gone way down lol! That being said I've lived and run a business in Laurel/Jones County for a long time and know most of the business owners here. Outside of Walmart, Lowes and Sonic most business owners I've talked to are down over 50% and climbing since this thing started. That's not just looking at it and saying "well I can't tell a difference here", it's a fact. That's not sustainable for very long at all. Some have shuttered for good already, and I'm sure the same scenario is playing out all over the country. I don't have the answers but I do know it's a fact if something doesn't give soon the virus won't devastate near as many families as the economic disaster.

And that's why I'm saying if we did one good SIP a month ago that had some teeth for 2-3 weeks we may have been able to get on top of this and start to be returning things to normal now. But we opted for a very limited phased approach not wanting to disrupt the economy and it caused it to drag out for months now and do 100x the damage to the economy as the one massive short term shutdown would have done.

[BrunswickDawg]

I drive by college apartments everyday and the parking lots are still 3/4 full. Traffic on 12 is still busy as ever. So it's still at a minimum no different than Christmas break or over the summer. There are still college kids here. Maybe it's just because they're all stuck in their apartment lease and staying because of that. I don't know. But I'm telling you there is barely any perceptible difference in activity in this town now compared to January.

That's also not what you said earlier. I've lived in Starkville in Summer it and it is a huge difference then the way it is during the middle of the school year. If you had said "it's about like Summer or Christmas Break" then I would have believed it. I'm also going off what my kid has said - she finally decided to come home last weekend.

[Commercecomet24]

And that's why I'm saying if we did one good SIP a month ago that had some teeth for 2-3 weeks we may have been able to get on top of this and start to be returning things to normal now. But we opted for a very limited phased approach not wanting to disrupt the economy and it caused it to drag out for months now and do 100x the damage to the economy as the one massive short term shutdown would have done.

We are just gonna have agree to disagree on this.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Starkvegasdog, you are so correct. Had we, as a nation jumped on this six weeks earlier, we would be coming out the other side this month. But.......
Buy the ticket, take the ride
HST

[Prediction? Pain.]

It probably depends where you live. We would be in peak tourist season here - it's dead. Most of the hotels have closed. When I have had to go into the office, traffic is noticeably less. There is still activity - but you can tell its maybe running at 1/4 normal right now. I last put gas in my car on March 10th.

We've got a mix in the Chattanooga area. Downtown Chattanooga is relatively sparse for a few reasons. First and foremost, the bedrock of the town's tourism industry, the Tennessee Aquarium (where three of my family members happen to work) has been closed for a month. Other attractions followed the Aquarium's lead shortly afterward, so other notable places that drew people in (the Hunter Art Museum, the Creative Discovery Museum (a kids' science and art center), the zoo, etc.) aren't open, either. Second, the restaurants and bars are all carryout only. And then third, even though most of the offices downtown are considered "essential" under Tennessee's (and Chattanooga's separate) stay-at-home orders, many (like me) are working from home much or all of the time.

At the same time, when I go out to pick up groceries or to the post-office, I see moderate-to-normal traffic at the stores I pass. Granted, small businesses and independent retailers are in a lot worse shape now, even if they're considered "essential" just because people aren't going out for stuff like that anymore even if they're allowed.

The closure of the tourism sector, which as I mentioned directly (and greatly) affects my and my immediate family's incomes, is a tough, tough thing. Even assuming our country adopts and implements an effective test-and-trace system that lets stuff start rolling close-ish to normal, I'm guessing that places like theaters, museums, aquariums, sports and concert venues, and anything else that requires close quarters and crowds are going to be the last to open.

[starkvegasdawg]

That's also not what you said earlier. I've lived in Starkville in Summer it and it is a huge difference then the way it is during the middle of the school year. If you had said "it's about like Summer or Christmas Break" then I would have believed it. I'm also going off what my kid has said - she finally decided to come home last weekend.

Thing is a lot of kids don't go home now. Summer is barely a difference in kids based due to all the summer school. I've lived here over 10 years. Back when I first moved here summer was like a ghost town with the kids gone, but the last 4-5 that dramatically changed. Now it's not much difference.

[Political Hack]

There's no debate. Had we started social distancing earlier, there would've been fewer people infected and fewer deaths. We also would've come out of the first wave more quickly and saved more resources for future waves. It would've also given us more time (started earlier & healthcare systems wouldn't have been overwhelmed so suddenly) to begin researching treatments and vaccines. This was a massive failure by our leaders. We knew the impacts. Knew what was coming. Knew we couldn't defeat it. And we ignored it because we were worried about the stock market taking a hit and the impacts on the coming election. It's criminal.

[Dawgology]

Times like this really highlight the need for drive-thru daiquiri bars and also the drive-thru coffee shops where the barista girls wear lingerie. Just sayin'...

[Cooterpoot]

And that's why I'm saying if we did one good SIP a month ago that had some teeth for 2-3 weeks we may have been able to get on top of this and start to be returning things to normal now. But we opted for a very limited phased approach not wanting to disrupt the economy and it caused it to drag out for months now and do 100x the damage to the economy as the one massive short term shutdown would have done.

Wouldn't have changed much at all.

[KB21]

And that's why I'm saying if we did one good SIP a month ago that had some teeth for 2-3 weeks we may have been able to get on top of this and start to be returning things to normal now. But we opted for a very limited phased approach not wanting to disrupt the economy and it caused it to drag out for months now and do 100x the damage to the economy as the one massive short term shutdown would have done.

I honestly do not believe that would have made that much of a difference. This virus has been here longer than most believe. I'm convinced I was seeing people with this virus back in January, and perhaps even some in December. There was something that people were coming in for that was influenza like that kept testing negative for influenza. These people were taking two to three weeks to get better. I feel it is very likely that you could double the amount of positive cases that we have right now if you took into account how many have this that are asymptomatic. Because of this, I feel like we are close if not past the point of herd immunity.

[Turfdawg67]

Wouldn't have changed much at all.

Yes it would've.

[deadheaddawg]

And that's why I'm saying if we did one good SIP a month ago that had some teeth for 2-3 weeks we may have been able to get on top of this and start to be returning things to normal now. But we opted for a very limited phased approach not wanting to disrupt the economy and it caused it to drag out for months now and do 100x the damage to the economy as the one massive short term shutdown would have done.

yep.

[dawgday166]

There's no debate. Had we started social distancing earlier, there would've been fewer people infected and fewer deaths. We also would've come out of the first wave more quickly and saved more resources for future waves. It would've also given us more time (started earlier & healthcare systems wouldn't have been overwhelmed so suddenly) to begin researching treatments and vaccines. This was a massive failure by our leaders. We knew the impacts. Knew what was coming. Knew we couldn't defeat it. And we ignored it because we were worried about the stock market taking a hit and the impacts on the coming election. It's criminal.

As I've said before ... Both sides of the aisle missed on this. And you might argue we as a country (Obama did it too) do things to prop up the stock market. But this ain't about that. It ain't easy and there are some difficult trade offs to consider before you tell the majority of the country to just go home and sit on their ass for 2 or 3 months. Of course dano would love it if only he had UBI *****

Trump really acted before anyone on the other side was ready to act themselves. I am not a personal fan of Trump's but he was ahead of Pelosi, Cuomo, etc.

ETA: Oh, and BTW, there is that little thingy called The Constitution that makes things like this somewhat difficult to address also. Unless of course you prefer true dictatorships ... but that may also be the case ONLY IF your guy is the dictator.

[hacker]

A few days back in another thread, I linked to an article from the MIT Technology Review about the "reopening" of the US economy from the perspective of prominent economists. The premise of the article was that choosing between economic viability and human life is a false choice. The two are inextricably intertwined and putting one above the other would lead to ruinous results. Here's the link again if anyone's interested:

https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/08/998785/stop-covid-or-save-the-economy-we-can-do-both/

The gist of the author's argument is that the most prudent path forward is to implement a robust, national test-and-trace system that, coupled with other remedial measures, will allow the health to work and the sick to be immediately isolated.

That aggressive test-and-trace approach is part of what has made Taiwan such a success story so far. If you haven't read up on Taiwan, here's an article from the Journal of the American Medical Association (https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762689) that gives a summary of its efforts and here's a 7-minute news clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAaDC0lv13s) about the same thing, both of which are from March.

With a population of over 23,000,000 -- millions of which take the 80-mile trip to and from China regularly and repeatedly -- and a population density that is top ten in the world and would rank 1st among US states, Taiwan to date has only 395 cases of COVID 19 and 6 deaths. They've had between zero and five new cases each day for the past week. For a democracy with a relatively solid, modern economy, that's pretty damn impressive.

But just for a comparison, let's look at some states in the US. New Jersey, which has the largest population density of any state in the US (though it's still lower than Taiwan's) and less than half of Taiwan's total population, has had nearly 69,000 COVID-19 cases and 2,805 deaths. My state of Tennessee has one-tenth the population density of Taiwan and less than a third of Taiwan's population and we've got more than 10 times the cases (5,823) and 20 times the deaths (124). Hell, my county alone has nearly twice as many deaths as the entire country of Taiwan with only 370,000 people and a population density less than half of Taiwan's.

The trace-and-test thing is something that healthcare people are pushing for too, at least in Tennessee. Vandy's Medical Center (https://news.vumc.org/2020/04/09/vanderbilt-health-policy-covid-19-model-finds-evidence-of-flattening-curve-recommends-distancing-policies-continue/) put out a short piece a week or so ago about the flattening of the curve and the potential dangerous of going back to normal without a much more robust system of testing and tracing in the state.

Another interesting tidbit from the MIT article was about some economists' study of the 1918 flu pandemic's economic consequences. I haven't read the entire study (https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=7521231120860661161080690020900700 23006042023048070022113019027098094066101123083089 05403003410300803809611903008210211208210812607107 50540311001150640050240250200900850790180850030070 03104067087125109091029024070103103064027011023115 120121001007111065&EXT=pdf) (it's 50 pages long), but here are the two main conclusions from the study and a little more insight from the MIT article:





Sorry for the length of the post. I was encouraged to hear people that have forgotten a crap-ton more than economics than I'll ever know talk about economic and physical health as two sides of the same coin instead of mutually exclusive. Figured some of y'all might, too.

Post more, I enjoyed the read

edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Prediction? Pain. again.

[Jack Lambert]

I paid my balance for season tickets today.

[yjnkdawg]

This is a pretty long video, but to sum it up, the lack of adequate Vitamin D could possibly be one factor in why there is a demographics' disparity in Covid-19 cases and deaths. From Dr. John Campbell.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs

[msstate7]

Blog for re-opening...

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we-never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php

[Todd4State]

I honestly do not believe that would have made that much of a difference. This virus has been here longer than most believe. I'm convinced I was seeing people with this virus back in January, and perhaps even some in December. There was something that people were coming in for that was influenza like that kept testing negative for influenza. These people were taking two to three weeks to get better. I feel it is very likely that you could double the amount of positive cases that we have right now if you took into account how many have this that are asymptomatic. Because of this, I feel like we are close if not past the point of herd immunity.

That's what I'm seeing too. I agree 100%. I don't know if we have immunity or not but we're probably closer than a lot to people realize.

Elective orthopedic surgeries were declared illegal where I live so my hospital transferred me right to the front lines. Kind of makes me like a pirate. LOL.

[Todd4State]

Blog for re-opening...

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we-never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php

Very good article and also in line with what I am seeing. When I walked around my hospital I noticed a LOT of empty beds. And unless COVID makes you invisible and we don't know it I'm going to assume we aren't at capacity. Also our number of patients on the vent where I work is almost below 90. It was over 110 last week. Normally I believe we're around 40 if I had to estimate so still not out of the woods but signs of improvement.

[dantheman4248]

You can not take from one and give to another and expect everyone's hardships to be solved. UBI is not a solution to the problem.

I can guarantee you that you won't see unemployment drop until September at the earliest, regardless of how quickly the economy rebounds. The reason is because the coronavirus stimulus package pays people a weekly payment equal to one-half of the state average unemployment benefit plus $600. You really think people are going to give that up to go back to work to earn less money????

There's not a singular thing that will solve the problem, not when it's the entire system being the problem. And my point with UBI is not to be only for the unemployed. You implement it for everyone. Basic across the board. This eliminates the need for a "minimum wage" as we will have established in our society the minimum standard of living needed. This would allow the stoppage of the 40 hour work week and increase productivity levels in workers as now you don't necessarily need to work all week to hold a job. Maybe you work 10 hrs a week at some restaurant job. Keeps happiness levels up. Small businesses don't have to pay a minimum wage so labor costs could go down. There's a lot of moving parts to it. But to think that people would be content being lazy and doing nothing all day (as UBI would only afford you the minimum) would cause people not to work... do you not see how crazy people are going currently?

There's obviously a lot of moving parts and not a magic cure-all. There can't be when we can't regulate other countries economies against our own so we can't force a business to not go to overseas manufacturing easily. (for instance) But there are some good starting points to fixing society and making a better tomorrow for everyone. You can't tell me we don't have the money when we constantly spend trillions to bail out big businesses under republicans who have the most lenient taxes.

[hacker]

Almost 5000 dead in the US in the past 48 hours if anyone's still keeping up.

[Cooterpoot]

Everyone is looking at what China is doing. It's the antibody testing and an app for your phone. Basically let's wherever you go know if you're clear or not. They're also checking temps. Disney in China is checking everyone.
Bill Gates wants us all chipped though. He's the devil.*

[Rick Danko]

Everyone is looking at what China is doing. It's the antibody testing and an app for your phone. Basically let's wherever you go know if you're clear or not. They're also checking temps. Disney in China is checking everyone.
Bill Gates wants us all chipped though. He's the devil.*

https://youtu.be/DgxZr6LLS34

[dawgday166]

There's not a singular thing that will solve the problem, not when it's the entire system being the problem. And my point with UBI is not to be only for the unemployed. You implement it for everyone. Basic across the board. This eliminates the need for a "minimum wage" as we will have established in our society the minimum standard of living needed. This would allow the stoppage of the 40 hour work week and increase productivity levels in workers as now you don't necessarily need to work all week to hold a job. Maybe you work 10 hrs a week at some restaurant job. Keeps happiness levels up. Small businesses don't have to pay a minimum wage so labor costs could go down. There's a lot of moving parts to it. But to think that people would be content being lazy and doing nothing all day (as UBI would only afford you the minimum) would cause people not to work... do you not see how crazy people are going currently?

There's obviously a lot of moving parts and not a magic cure-all. There can't be when we can't regulate other countries economies against our own so we can't force a business to not go to overseas manufacturing easily. (for instance) But there are some good starting points to fixing society and making a better tomorrow for everyone. You can't tell me we don't have the money when we constantly spend trillions to bail out big businesses under republicans who have the most lenient taxes.

The more you post ... the more I understand how you came up with 11 wins for us last year *

[Jack Lambert]

Almost 5000 dead in the US in the past 48 hours if anyone's still keeping up.

About 1/3 of those are probable.

[hacker]

About 1/3 of those are probable.

Nope. All confirmed. 8000 if you include probable

[defiantdog]

Everyone is looking at what China is doing. It's the antibody testing and an app for your phone. Basically let's wherever you go know if you're clear or not. They're also checking temps. Disney in China is checking everyone.
Bill Gates wants us all chipped though. He's the devil.*

Temps really don't matter..... I had a temp for two days..... some people haven't even gotten a fever with this thing.

[Prediction? Pain.]

Blog for re-opening...

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/04/we-never-needed-to-flatten-the-curve.php

I don't know jack about the stats the blogger's bandying about. But I do know this:

John Hinderaker, the blogger, is a career trial attorney who's run a political blog for 15 years or so. His analysis of the stats is that we did not and do not need to "flatten the curve."

On the other hand, Vanderbilt's Division of Infectious Diseases, the Tennessee Chapter of the American College of Physicians, the Tennessee Medical Association, the State of Tennessee's Medical Examiner, and hundreds of physicians across the State of Tennessee signed a petition begging our governor to issue a mandatory "shelter in place" order when he repeatedly refused to do so. They did this because their analysis led them to conclude that not doing so could be disastrous.

Until I gain the expertise necessary to conduct a meaningful analysis of our state's public health system and virology, I'm going to err on the side of listening to the analysis of the overwhelming majority of physicians in my state.

ETA: That wasn't meant to disparage independent analysis or you in particular, 7. It occurred to me after posted that it may have come off like that or as condescending. Sorry, dude. I didn't mean it like that. The unification of health officials and doctors from all practices and backgrounds from across Tennessee (and likely the country) is telling to me. And, full disclosure for context, if you're interested: My father's a recently retired physician boarded in internal medicine and occupational and environmental medicine. He's as die-hard a pro-business, anti-socialized medicine conservative as I've ever met in my life, and he always has been. He's not only firmly on board with all the other doctors in Tennessee, but he could preach a day-long sermon about the national public health system's response to the pandemic, which he views as one of the biggest failures of the federal government in his lifetime. Hearing him talk about this and reading the stuff that he sends me has no doubt colored how I'm viewing things, for better or worse.

[msstate7]

I don't know jack about the stats the blogger's bandying about. But I do know this:

John Hinderaker, the blogger, is a career trial attorney who's run a political blog for 15 years or so. His analysis of the stats is that we did not and do not need to "flatten the curve."

On the other hand, Vanderbilt's Division of Infectious Diseases, the Tennessee Chapter of the American College of Physicians, the Tennessee Medical Association, the State of Tennessee's Medical Examiner, and hundreds of physicians across the State of Tennessee signed a petition begging our governor to issue a mandatory "shelter in place" order when he repeatedly refused to do so. They did this because their analysis led them to conclude that not doing so could be disastrous.

Until I gain the expertise necessary to conduct a meaningful analysis of our state's public health system and virology, I'm going to err on the side of listening to the analysis of the overwhelming majority of physicians in my state.

ETA: That wasn't meant to disparage independent analysis or you in particular, 7. It occurred to me after posted that it may have come off like that or as condescending. Sorry, dude. I didn't mean it like that. The unification of health officials and doctors from all practices and backgrounds from across Tennessee (and likely the country) is telling to me. And, full disclosure for context, if you're interested: My father's a recently retired physician boarded in internal medicine and occupational and environmental medicine. He's as die-hard a pro-business, anti-socialized medicine conservative as I've ever met in my life, and he always has been. He's not only firmly on board with all the other doctors in Tennessee, but he could preach a day-long sermon about the national public health system's response to the pandemic, which he views as one of the biggest failures of the federal government in his lifetime. Hearing him talk about this and reading the stuff that he sends me has no doubt colored how I'm viewing things, for better or worse.

I have no idea of the author's credentials for writing this. Perhaps he has none.

As far as when the country will open again... doctors have an educated idea on the medical side, but probably limited on the economic side. Vice versa for business guys. I would hope our leaders are considering both sides of this though, and strike a balance between the 2. I guess what I'm saying is doctors shouldn't be the only consultants on this matter.

The author of the blog may not be worth listening to on either side.

[hacker]

I have no idea of the author's credentials for writing this. Perhaps he has none.

As far as when the country will open again... doctors have an educated idea on the medical side, but probably limited on the economic side. Vice versa for business guys. I would hope our leaders are considering both sides of this though, and strike a balance between the 2. I guess what I'm saying is doctors shouldn't be the only consultants on this matter.

The author of the blog may not be worth listening to on either side.

Well, there is this letter signed by 32 prominent economists from both parties: https://economicstrategygroup.org/resource/economic-strategy-group-statement-covid19/

But it's almost 3 weeks old, which seems like a lifetime these days. I wonder what their thoughts are now.

[msstate7]

Well, there is this letter signed by 32 prominent economists from both parties: https://economicstrategygroup.org/resource/economic-strategy-group-statement-covid19/

But it's almost 3 weeks old, which seems like a lifetime these days. I wonder what their thoughts are now.

Weren't the experts predicting like a million Americans to die around that time?

[hacker]

Weren't the experts predicting like a million Americans to die around that time?

That's a misconception. The Imperial College model predicted 100k deaths if we practice social distancing and 1-2 million if we do nothing.

[Gutter Cobreh]

There's not a singular thing that will solve the problem, not when it's the entire system being the problem. And my point with UBI is not to be only for the unemployed. You implement it for everyone. Basic across the board. This eliminates the need for a "minimum wage" as we will have established in our society the minimum standard of living needed. This would allow the stoppage of the 40 hour work week and increase productivity levels in workers as now you don't necessarily need to work all week to hold a job. Maybe you work 10 hrs a week at some restaurant job. Keeps happiness levels up. Small businesses don't have to pay a minimum wage so labor costs could go down. There's a lot of moving parts to it. But to think that people would be content being lazy and doing nothing all day (as UBI would only afford you the minimum) would cause people not to work... do you not see how crazy people are going currently?

There's obviously a lot of moving parts and not a magic cure-all. There can't be when we can't regulate other countries economies against our own so we can't force a business to not go to overseas manufacturing easily. (for instance) But there are some good starting points to fixing society and making a better tomorrow for everyone. You can't tell me we don't have the money when we constantly spend trillions to bail out big businesses under republicans who have the most lenient taxes.

The statement in bold is one example of where your entire argument goes out the window. As an advocate of UBI, you somehow think that people working less hours for less income is going to somehow magically make products appear on the shelves at the same prices as they are today?

I'm going to chalk it up to you simply trolling the board at this point.

[Prediction? Pain.]

I have no idea of the author's credentials for writing this. Perhaps he has none.

As far as when the country will open again... doctors have an educated idea on the medical side, but probably limited on the economic side. Vice versa for business guys. I would hope our leaders are considering both sides of this though, and strike a balance between the 2. I guess what I'm saying is doctors shouldn't be the only consultants on this matter.

The author of the blog may not be worth listening to on either side.


Well, there is this letter signed by 32 prominent economists from both parties: https://economicstrategygroup.org/resource/economic-strategy-group-statement-covid19/

But it's almost 3 weeks old, which seems like a lifetime these days. I wonder what their thoughts are now.

Most definitely, 7. That's why I was interested in the MIT article I posted earlier that discussed prominent economists' opinions and the economic study of the 1918 pandemic and why I think Taiwan's success is so promising. (And why it's so disappointing that we're so far behind in the US by comparison, but that's a different issue.)

Just an hour or so ago, our county's health department announced that testing on demand for anyone regardless of symptoms or doctor's orders is starting Thursday. Granted, the announcement in the paper also said that private testing companies say we've got a long way to go to build an infrastructure that we need for that. But regardless, it's a step in the right direction.

[Gutter Cobreh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVla8ZeWAAQFuTm?format=jpg&name=large


That's a misconception. The Imperial College model predicted 100k deaths if we practice social distancing and 1-2 million if we do nothing.

I don't think most on this board understand the photo you posted earlier, so I'm replying with it here again in hopes they re-read to understand why the initial projections can't be used as an argument against the measures that have been taken.

[Homedawg]

The more you post ... the more I understand how you came up with 11 wins for us last year *

No shit. Lala land.

[dawgday166]

The statement in bold is one example of where your entire argument goes out the window. As an advocate of UBI, you somehow think that people working less hours for less income is going to somehow magically make products appear on the shelves at the same prices as they are today?

I'm going to chalk it up to you simply trolling the board at this point.

Or even products just appear on shelves ... much less at the same prices.

[msstate7]

I don't think most on this board understand the photo you posted earlier, so I'm replying with it here again in hopes they re-read to understand why the initial projections can't be used as an argument against the measures that have been taken.

Just noticed this graph. So we now saying these measures will eliminate new cases? Am I wrong in that these measures are just to delay mass cases at once? What experts are saying that these measures will eliminate the virus?

[Cooterpoot]

That's a misconception. The Imperial College model predicted 100k deaths if we practice social distancing and 1-2 million if we do nothing.

Fauci and Birxs said 100-200,000 if we do things perfectly. Millions if we do nothing. That's where it came from.

[Commercecomet24]

No shit. Lala land.

Yep!

[dawgday166]

Just noticed this graph. So we now saying these measures will eliminate new cases? Am I wrong in that these measures are just to delay mass cases at once? What experts are saying that these measures will eliminate the virus?

They wanna get us to point where everyone can get tested (for antibodies too) so they can isolate and quarantine each new case.

[hacker]

Fauci and Birxs said 100-200,000 if we do things perfectly. Millions if we do nothing. That's where it came from.

Yeah, they were using the Imperial College model for their numbers back then. Now they're using the IHME model, which I think is too conservative.

[dawgday166]

If y'all think this is bad go read The Great Influenza.

First 5 chapters give a very detailed history of medicine in the US leading up to it. Those chapters a little difficult to get thru cause you keep wondering when you'll get to the flu story. After those chapters it takes off. Freaking nightmare after that.

[defiantdog]

Models can say one thing..... experts can say one thing..... and we can all predict whatever we want. There is one little fact out there. And that is..... no one knows exactly what the hell is going on, and we don't know exactly how to get through this. So the best thing to do is let this thing run its course. Stay home, avoid going out as much as possible, and be patient. This will eventually end, but we cannot rush it.

[dantheman4248]

"It doesn't agree with the core tenets of the only failing system that i've ever known, so it must be shit."

He who is resistant to change...

I've seen two catastrophic level recessions coincide with the house of cards propping of "The Economy" done by the last two Republican presidents be toppled over. Sorry if I don't buy the bullshit anymore. If your economic system can fail this hard twice in the matter of 15 years... maybe you need to look into mixing things up. Why is that so blasphemous for you to comprehend. "La la land." You live in ****ing la la land if you think anyone on either side of the aisle gives a damn about anything other than your vote. You've got a sitting president who gave a cash advance which is designed to literally buy him votes. If he wins, we'll he's not worried about re-election a 3rd time (yet). If he loses, the part where the US comes to collect on their loan falls to someone else.

"If you give everyone cash the prices will rise up." That's where we've shown that we need regulation at the top. I'll hearken back to the 900% increase in C-Suite level pay since Reagan was elected versus the measley 15% increase for the average worker. That right there says that it needs regulation, sorry if that hurts your "but muh free market" feelings, snowflake. That generation proved that they can't be trusted with that much reign over the distribution of pay. They ruined the system that you hold near and dear to your heart and now it doesn't work for the common man.

I get it, when you were a kid it worked so clearly this generation is just "lazy". You've put your head in the sand and not questioned anything beyond that. The lazy thought is evident by "people just wont work if you give them free money." You're projecting and not understanding what UBI should cover. It should be for the basics. Food, Water, Shelter. I'll say it one more time so maybe you'll understand. People as a whole are not happy with only being allowed to do the basics. This quarantine is proof of that. We are not lazy. There will still be workers.

It's actually quite scary when you analyze your argument against UBI. Your hypothesis is that the only thing motivating people to go to work is FEAR of being homeless/without food. You've literally stated that you believe it's ok humans should be in a constant state of fear. Am I wrong for wanting to change that?

You all keep mocking what I'm saying, but defending a proven LOSER system. 2 Recessions in 15 years. Some of the worst shit that we've seen in a loooooooong ****ing time. And what happens on the other side of the recessions. We bailout big business and give them all the money because trickle-down economics. IT DOESNT WORK. So propose something else or shut up your criticism. You're defending a system that has already shown it won't work by claiming another can't work.

And as people sooooooo scared of communism / socialism. You're main fears are the way you fear the government control of things. Newsflash, the guy in charge is trying to become a total authority power. He's even telling you this point blank that he thinks he has and should have total authority. So we're well on our way to having the negatives of communism mixed in with the negatives of capitalism.

But yea, I live in la la land. Just be sure to apologize to your grandchildren when you see them on the other side. At the rate we're going that's gonna be sooner rather than later with as many of the horsemen as we have running around. War just reared his head again, China vs. USA is eminent. That means Pestilence, War, and Death are roaming about. With the Locust swarm in Africa causing major Famine.... I'll be praying for us.

[StateDawg44]

You're the only one that keeps bringing government into it.

By all means, keep going though.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Dantheman, your assertion that the trickle down theory does not work is spot on. It only serves to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.

[DownwardDawg]

Dantheman, your assertion that the trickle down theory does not work is spot on. It only serves to make the rich richer and the poor even poorer.

One of the dumbest things ever posted here. I see it at work every single day.

[Dolphus Raymond]

No, history has proven that the trickle-down theory does not work in the long term. Hey, at one time, many decades ago, I too worshiped at the alter of trickle-down economics. However, I now adhere to Einstein?s definition of insanity.

[AROB44]

No, history has proven that the trickle-down theory does not work in the long term. Hey, at one time, many decades ago, I too worshiped at the alter of trickle-down economics. However, I now adhere to Einstein?s definition of insanity.

Trickle down = pisssed on

[BeardoMSU]

Trickle down = pisssed on

You an R. Kelly fan, too, I see...**

[Extendedcab]

"It doesn't agree with the core tenets of the only failing system that i've ever known, so it must be shit."

He who is resistant to change...

I've seen two catastrophic level recessions coincide with the house of cards propping of "The Economy" done by the last two Republican presidents be toppled over. Sorry if I don't buy the bullshit anymore. If your economic system can fail this hard twice in the matter of 15 years... maybe you need to look into mixing things up. Why is that so blasphemous for you to comprehend. "La la land." You live in ****ing la la land if you think anyone on either side of the aisle gives a damn about anything other than your vote. You've got a sitting president who gave a cash advance which is designed to literally buy him votes. If he wins, we'll he's not worried about re-election a 3rd time (yet). If he loses, the part where the US comes to collect on their loan falls to someone else.

"If you give everyone cash the prices will rise up." That's where we've shown that we need regulation at the top. I'll hearken back to the 900% increase in C-Suite level pay since Reagan was elected versus the measley 15% increase for the average worker. That right there says that it needs regulation, sorry if that hurts your "but muh free market" feelings, snowflake. That generation proved that they can't be trusted with that much reign over the distribution of pay. They ruined the system that you hold near and dear to your heart and now it doesn't work for the common man.

I get it, when you were a kid it worked so clearly this generation is just "lazy". You've put your head in the sand and not questioned anything beyond that. The lazy thought is evident by "people just wont work if you give them free money." You're projecting and not understanding what UBI should cover. It should be for the basics. Food, Water, Shelter. I'll say it one more time so maybe you'll understand. People as a whole are not happy with only being allowed to do the basics. This quarantine is proof of that. We are not lazy. There will still be workers.

It's actually quite scary when you analyze your argument against UBI. Your hypothesis is that the only thing motivating people to go to work is FEAR of being homeless/without food. You've literally stated that you believe it's ok humans should be in a constant state of fear. Am I wrong for wanting to change that?

You all keep mocking what I'm saying, but defending a proven LOSER system. 2 Recessions in 15 years. Some of the worst shit that we've seen in a loooooooong ****ing time. And what happens on the other side of the recessions. We bailout big business and give them all the money because trickle-down economics. IT DOESNT WORK. So propose something else or shut up your criticism. You're defending a system that has already shown it won't work by claiming another can't work.

And as people sooooooo scared of communism / socialism. You're main fears are the way you fear the government control of things. Newsflash, the guy in charge is trying to become a total authority power. He's even telling you this point blank that he thinks he has and should have total authority. So we're well on our way to having the negatives of communism mixed in with the negatives of capitalism.

But yea, I live in la la land. Just be sure to apologize to your grandchildren when you see them on the other side. At the rate we're going that's gonna be sooner rather than later with as many of the horsemen as we have running around. War just reared his head again, China vs. USA is eminent. That means Pestilence, War, and Death are roaming about. With the Locust swarm in Africa causing major Famine.... I'll be praying for us.

Nobody is scared of socialism or communism. The issue is those government models do not agree with the US Constitution. The US recognizes that our freedoms are GOD given and the constitution guarantees that the US government will NOT infringe on them. Socialism and communism does and will infringe on our GOD given freedoms. We the people do NOT want that. We are not the ones trying to destroy our freedoms,, you are with these proven failed models of human government. The problem is not US, it is you but you fail to see that.

If socialism and communism are so great, then move to a country with that government model and se how you like it (you won't do that though). I guarantee you will not. I work with enough people in those environments to tell you that much.

Now you have again gotten WAY OFF the intent of this thread. Keep your eye on the ball will you? You are a distraction!!

[Cooterpoot]

No, history has proven that the trickle-down theory does not work in the long term. Hey, at one time, many decades ago, I too worshiped at the alter of trickle-down economics. However, I now adhere to Einstein?s definition of insanity.

There was a time before greed completely took over that it was plausible. Been awhile.

[DownwardDawg]

Nobody is scared of socialism or communism. The issue is those government models do not agree with the US Constitution. The US recognizes that our freedoms are GOD given and the constitution guarantees that the US government will NOT infringe on them. Socialism and communism does and will infringe on our GOD given freedoms. We the people do NOT want that. We are not the ones trying to destroy our freedoms,, you are with these proven failed models of human government. The problem is not US, it is you but you fail to see that.

If socialism and communism are so great, then move to a country with that government model and se how you like it (you won't do that though). I guarantee you will not. I work with enough people in those environments to tell you that much.

Now you have again gotten WAY OFF the intent of this thread. Keep your eye on the ball will you? You are a distraction!!

Excellent response. And God I hate politics. And I really hate people that have to interject their political stance in every thread, conversation, etc.....

[Dolphus Raymond]

When the President stated he is the ultimate and final authority, did that agree with the Constitution? Please reference Amendment 10.

[Dawgology]

"It doesn't agree with the core tenets of the only failing system that i've ever known, so it must be shit."

He who is resistant to change...

I've seen two catastrophic level recessions coincide with the house of cards propping of "The Economy" done by the last two Republican presidents be toppled over. Sorry if I don't buy the bullshit anymore. If your economic system can fail this hard twice in the matter of 15 years... maybe you need to look into mixing things up. Why is that so blasphemous for you to comprehend. "La la land." You live in ****ing la la land if you think anyone on either side of the aisle gives a damn about anything other than your vote. You've got a sitting president who gave a cash advance which is designed to literally buy him votes. If he wins, we'll he's not worried about re-election a 3rd time (yet). If he loses, the part where the US comes to collect on their loan falls to someone else.

"If you give everyone cash the prices will rise up." That's where we've shown that we need regulation at the top. I'll hearken back to the 900% increase in C-Suite level pay since Reagan was elected versus the measley 15% increase for the average worker. That right there says that it needs regulation, sorry if that hurts your "but muh free market" feelings, snowflake. That generation proved that they can't be trusted with that much reign over the distribution of pay. They ruined the system that you hold near and dear to your heart and now it doesn't work for the common man.

I get it, when you were a kid it worked so clearly this generation is just "lazy". You've put your head in the sand and not questioned anything beyond that. The lazy thought is evident by "people just wont work if you give them free money." You're projecting and not understanding what UBI should cover. It should be for the basics. Food, Water, Shelter. I'll say it one more time so maybe you'll understand. People as a whole are not happy with only being allowed to do the basics. This quarantine is proof of that. We are not lazy. There will still be workers.

It's actually quite scary when you analyze your argument against UBI. Your hypothesis is that the only thing motivating people to go to work is FEAR of being homeless/without food. You've literally stated that you believe it's ok humans should be in a constant state of fear. Am I wrong for wanting to change that?

You all keep mocking what I'm saying, but defending a proven LOSER system. 2 Recessions in 15 years. Some of the worst shit that we've seen in a loooooooong ****ing time. And what happens on the other side of the recessions. We bailout big business and give them all the money because trickle-down economics. IT DOESNT WORK. So propose something else or shut up your criticism. You're defending a system that has already shown it won't work by claiming another can't work.

And as people sooooooo scared of communism / socialism. You're main fears are the way you fear the government control of things. Newsflash, the guy in charge is trying to become a total authority power. He's even telling you this point blank that he thinks he has and should have total authority. So we're well on our way to having the negatives of communism mixed in with the negatives of capitalism.

But yea, I live in la la land. Just be sure to apologize to your grandchildren when you see them on the other side. At the rate we're going that's gonna be sooner rather than later with as many of the horsemen as we have running around. War just reared his head again, China vs. USA is eminent. That means Pestilence, War, and Death are roaming about. With the Locust swarm in Africa causing major Famine.... I'll be praying for us.

I've written and re-written a response to this several times but it's just too much. Good luck to you, brother.

[Dawgology]

When the President stated he is the ultimate and final authority, did that agree with the Constitution? Please reference Amendment 10.

Statements vs. actions. You are allowed to say pretty much whatever you want to say so...yeah...it was constitutional (1st Amendment). But if he TRIED to become a dictator then that would be a constitutional violation and things would get....complicated.

[hacker]

Scott County up to 100 cases very quickly. Must be going through those chicken plants.

I think they now have the highest per capita infection rate by county.

Edit: Nope, Wilkinson does. Scott may be second though.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Dawgology, I agree with your statement regarding 1st Amendment protections of free speech. What concerns me is a President who evidently has little grasp of the Constitution. When he made that statement, he apparently believed it was a statement of fact, and that is disturbing.

[Extendedcab]

Dawgology, I agree with your statement regarding 1st Amendment protections of free speech. What concerns me is a President who evidently has little grasp of the Constitution. When he made that statement, he apparently believed it was a statement of fact, and that is disturbing.

Proper context has to be set here. The President is "CEO" of the Runing Federal Government, meaning of all it departments and agencies (Executive Branch). Obviously he has to abide within the powers granted to him by the constitution. He is the final authority (Executive Branch) within boundaries. Congress's authority is (among others) to investigate and oversee the executive branch and its departments and agencies, to make sure that authority is not violated, and make laws as validated by the judicial.

[Joebob]

Scott County up to 100 cases very quickly. Must be going through those chicken plants.

I think they now have the highest per capita infection rate by county.

Edit: Nope, Wilkinson does. Scott may be second though.

That’s probably my biggest fear right now, that this virus will start spreading in the food processing plants and everyone will either get sick or get scared. That’s why it’s so critical that we not open up the economy prematurely, but the businesses need to do their part too in protecting their workers, especially in the food industry.

[Extendedcab]

That’s probably my biggest fear right now, that this virus will start spreading in the food processing plants and everyone will either get sick or get scared. That’s why it’s so critical that we not open up the economy prematurely, but the businesses need to do their part too in protecting their workers, especially in the food industry.


Joebob,

I agree but how long will it be until the SIP, social distancing, etc. start to affect our ability to either product or distribute goods (food in this case)? I think that is the concern - at least for me.

[Commercecomet24]

Nobody is scared of socialism or communism. The issue is those government models do not agree with the US Constitution. The US recognizes that our freedoms are GOD given and the constitution guarantees that the US government will NOT infringe on them. Socialism and communism does and will infringe on our GOD given freedoms. We the people do NOT want that. We are not the ones trying to destroy our freedoms,, you are with these proven failed models of human government. The problem is not US, it is you but you fail to see that.

If socialism and communism are so great, then move to a country with that government model and se how you like it (you won't do that though). I guarantee you will not. I work with enough people in those environments to tell you that much.

Now you have again gotten WAY OFF the intent of this thread. Keep your eye on the ball will you? You are a distraction!!

Very Well Said!

[Dawgology]

That’s probably my biggest fear right now, that this virus will start spreading in the food processing plants and everyone will either get sick or get scared. That’s why it’s so critical that we not open up the economy prematurely, but the businesses need to do their part too in protecting their workers, especially in the food industry.

It's not a matter of "if" but "when". Because it WILL happen. The issue I see is our governor caving to pressure and reopening our economy and canceling the shelter-in-place on Apr. 20th. If that happens expect cases and deaths to skyrocket in early May. We haven't even peaked yet and we are 4 days from the end of the shelter in place. It will be an unmitigated disaster.

[Commercecomet24]

It's not a matter of "if" but "when". Because it WILL happen. The issue I see is our governor caving to pressure and reopening our economy and canceling the shelter-in-place on Apr. 20th. If that happens expect cases and deaths to skyrocket in early May. We haven't even peaked yet and we are 4 days from the end of the shelter in place. It will be an unmitigated disaster.

I'm gonna take a guess and say that the governor keeps us under the shelter in place order until May 1. Just going by what he said on Tuesday about school closings. He mentioned that Pres. Trump said that we should be down until May 1 and opening up the schools May 1 wouldn't make sense because there would only be 2 weeks left, so I figure he's leaning toward a May 1 date to open things back up. Just my opinion though and we all know what opinions are worth right now, ha!

[hacker]

Joebob,

I agree but how long will it be until the SIP, social distancing, etc. start to affect our ability to either product or distribute goods (food in this case)? I think that is the concern - at least for me.

The food supply chain is obviously considered essential and SIP has no effect on it. However, if the virus goes through some of these plants and they shut down, that's a big cause for concern.

[Johnson85]

The food supply chain is obviously considered essential and SIP has no effect on it. However, if the virus goes through some of these plants and they shut down, that's a big cause for concern.

Yup. It's amazing how much food goes through some of those plants and how thin our food supply chain really is. We really don't have that many days of food inventory stored up in teh grand scheme of things, especially when you think about what might be lost due to logistics problems.

I mean, if we ever got really desperate, I guess we could take the roughly 50% of US corn that we burn in gas tanks and eat it instead, but I assume we'd have to have like 10% of the population die before the politics would let us do that, b/c the ethanol producers and corn farms know that if you ever let a policy so 17ing insane and destructive like that lapse, even in an emergency, it might be hard to get people to agree to go back to doing something so bat shit crazy when the emergency is over.

[Dawgology]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/11/business/coronavirus-destroying-food.html

Check this out. THis is insane.

[Dawgfan77]

So apparently some hospitals have been inflating death numbers because if the patient dies for any cause they mark it as COVID and they get Medicaid $$$. In other words someone has heart attack they code it as covid. And they don't even test the person. This is why NY has a higher death rate. It makes no sense.

[dantheman4248]

One of the dumbest things ever posted here. I see it at work every single day.

Trickle-down does not work over time. An ever increasing percentage gets stagnant and considering the disproportion of slices of the pie at the top, more gets stagnant at the top as the trickle eventually gets smaller.

I'm sure trickle-down worked in your day. It doesn't anymore. It failed. We responded to the previous recession by going all in on it. We've come out the other side with people 20-40 unable to purchase homes and have quickly ended up in another huge recession. The answer is not to double down. It's idiotic to think otherwise.


Nobody is scared of socialism or communism. The issue is those government models do not agree with the US Constitution. The US recognizes that our freedoms are GOD given and the constitution guarantees that the US government will NOT infringe on them. Socialism and communism does and will infringe on our GOD given freedoms. We the people do NOT want that. We are not the ones trying to destroy our freedoms,, you are with these proven failed models of human government. The problem is not US, it is you but you fail to see that.

If socialism and communism are so great, then move to a country with that government model and se how you like it (you won't do that though). I guarantee you will not. I work with enough people in those environments to tell you that much.

Now you have again gotten WAY OFF the intent of this thread. Keep your eye on the ball will you? You are a distraction!!

I don't want to be in a country run by a dictator. I want to be in a country that takes care of the people. And I like crawfish too much. You've assigned in your head that I must agree with all the tenets of socialism and communism and paint everything as black and white. Its fruitless to discuss with you because you don't understand gray.

All I've suggested is that we redistribute our wealth via heavy taxes on the elite rich (I'm talking the 1 mil / yr + income, not the end of the street family owned house where Mr. Jones brings in 150,000 for his white hat role at the shipyard.), universal basic income, and an abolishment of the minimum wage. I believe in freedoms but I also believe that we should have the minimum of being an american to be higher.


There was a time before greed completely took over that it was plausible. Been awhile.

When you aren't trolling coot, you are one of the few that can reach across the aisle and actually fairly look at things to give a thought-out reasoned response. You must spread some reputation before giving to Cooterpoot again.


Statements vs. actions. You are allowed to say pretty much whatever you want to say so...yeah...it was constitutional (1st Amendment). But if he TRIED to become a dictator then that would be a constitutional violation and things would get....complicated.

He's trying to. Look at the CARES and how difficult it is for transparency and proper oversight into the distribution of trillions of dollars.

[Dawgfan77]

Good day comrade!

[SheltonChoked]

Statements vs. actions. You are allowed to say pretty much whatever you want to say so...yeah...it was constitutional (1st Amendment). But if he TRIED to become a dictator then that would be a constitutional violation and things would get....complicated.

Holy shit.

This is deraged Trump Syndrome

If ANY prior president had said that, he would have been removed from office... That day.

[Dawg2003]

So apparently some hospitals have been inflating death numbers because if the patient dies for any cause they mark it as COVID and they get Medicaid $$$. In other words someone has heart attack they code it as covid. And they don't even test the person. This is why NY has a higher death rate. It makes no sense.

What is your source for this?

[defiantdog]

So when does everyone go back to work? Hospitals are clearly faking the numbers. Ew cases and deaths. I believe the cases are a lot higher than reported (simply because they aren't testing everyone with symptoms) and it seems they are reported all death as Covid related (probably for monetary reasons).

So when do people go back to work and put this fear behind them? Yes, I was told I have a mild case but I'm still feeling the effects of the virus on day 18. I couldn't work right now because I have to take a nap just from checking the mail. So do we just go to work in hopes that this virus will affect the majority and die off? Or do we hunker down for another month or two while the economy tanks? Potentially save lives vs save the economy.....

[dantheman4248]

$55 million dollars. POOF.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fema-paid-bankrupt-company-no-employees-55-million-n95-masks-2020-4


And y'all wonder why I'm clamoring for oversight.

For people bad at math that's worth 2.2 Kennedy Centers that you bitched about.

$55 million to a company that went bankrupt last year, has no employees and has provided 0 masks.

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is paying Panthera $5.50 per mask, which is decidedly more than what the government pays companies with an established background in producing medical supplies such as 3M (the company charges about 63 cents per mask)."

I mean this is simply amazing how ridiculous this is.

[hacker]

The death stats are absolutely not inflated.

The truth of the matter is that at least twice as many people have died in NYC in the past month of ALL CAUSES than any other month in the past 20 years. That includes September 2001. Thousands more have died this month than in Sept 2001.

If you think they are inflated, just explain why there were 10000 more total deaths in NYC this month than any other month in 20 years. I'll hang up and listen.

What killed 10000 more people in NYC this month if it wasn't covid? Was it the 5G towers?

[deadheaddawg]

So apparently some hospitals have been inflating death numbers because if the patient dies for any cause they mark it as COVID and they get Medicaid $$$. In other words someone has heart attack they code it as covid. And they don't even test the person. This is why NY has a higher death rate. It makes no sense.

What is your source on that? Most information tends to state that we are most likely under-reporting deaths, not over reporting them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/us/coronavirus-deaths-undercount.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/04/14/underreporting-of-covid-19-deaths-in-the-us-and-europe/#5e55c5e282d7

[Dolphus Raymond]

Hospitals inflating the number of COVID19 deaths to get more Medicaid money? This type of statement is Shawn Hannity level derangement. Good God stop posting crap like this.
ETA: I?ll play the devil?s advocate here for a minute. Ok, suppose for a moment this is true. How many deaths have been blamed on COVID for this bounty? Answer: the number would be statistically irrelevant. Plenty of people are dying from COVID without having to artificially inflate the numbers.

[confucius say]

If everybody wore a mask and went back to normal life, how well would that work?

[Extendedcab]

$55 million dollars. POOF.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fema-paid-bankrupt-company-no-employees-55-million-n95-masks-2020-4


And y'all wonder why I'm clamoring for oversight.

For people bad at math that's worth 2.2 Kennedy Centers that you bitched about.

$55 million to a company that went bankrupt last year, has no employees and has provided 0 masks.

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is paying Panthera $5.50 per mask, which is decidedly more than what the government pays companies with an established background in producing medical supplies such as 3M (the company charges about 63 cents per mask)."

I mean this is simply amazing how ridiculous this is.

There is a link to an external Political site on the ED main blog page. Please click it and take your beef somewhere else. Either that or move to a country that you think will please you more, other than the US.

[defiantdog]

If everybody wore a mask and went back to normal life, how well would that work?
Wouldn't work..... masks need to be thrown away after each encounter with another person. It seems the only thing to get everyone back to work is time.

[msstate7]

Remember the Bloomberg smear article saying how the south was fat and unhealthy, so it was gonna be much worse for us?

NY death rate: .0718
LA death rate: .0513
MS death rate: .0356
AL death rate: .0306
GA death rate: .0374

And we know African Americans are hit harder by this virus. The southern states have much more African Americans per capita

[Todd4State]

Remember the Bloomberg smear article saying how the south was fat and unhealthy, so it was gonna be much worse for us?

NY death rate: .0718
LA death rate: .0513
MS death rate: .0356
AL death rate: .0306
GA death rate: .0374

And we know African Americans are hit harder by this virus. The southern states have much more African Americans per capita

New York- King of the hill! Top of the heap!

[fishwater99]

Hospitals inflating the number of COVID19 deaths to get more Medicaid money? This type of statement is Shawn Hannity level derangement. Good God stop posting crap like this.
ETA: I?ll play the devil?s advocate here for a minute. Ok, suppose for a moment this is true. How many deaths have been blamed on COVID for this bounty? Answer: the number would be statistically irrelevant. Plenty of people are dying from COVID without having to artificially inflate the numbers.

If someone has COVID-19 and dies of another cause they are reporting it as COVID-19 death, even though COVID-19 wasn't the actual cause but could have been a contributing factor.
No one is just making up death totals.

[Cooterpoot]

Scott County up to 100 cases very quickly. Must be going through those chicken plants.

I think they now have the highest per capita infection rate by county.

Edit: Nope, Wilkinson does. Scott may be second though.

They set up a testing station there.

[msstate7]

New York- King of the hill! Top of the heap!

I don't wish ill will on NYers. I know Bloomberg doesn't speak for all of NY. That article did rub me wrong though when it was their state that was eat up with it

[Jack Lambert]

I don't wish ill will on NYers. I know Bloomberg doesn't speak for all of NY. That article did rub me wrong though when it was their state that was eat up with it

there was a reporter on MSNBC Or CNN said that Trump supporters in Red States were going to be the most to die. Boy were they wrong.

[Todd4State]

I don't wish ill will on NYers. I know Bloomberg doesn't speak for all of NY. That article did rub me wrong though when it was their state that was eat up with it

I hear you. I have family that live there and don't want anything bad either.

But they can be arrogant Yankees.

[Dawg2003]

If someone has COVID-19 and dies of another cause they are reporting it as COVID-19 death, even though COVID-19 wasn't the actual cause but could have been a contributing factor.
No one is just making up death totals.

What is your source for this?

[StateDawg44]

$55 million dollars. POOF.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fema-paid-bankrupt-company-no-employees-55-million-n95-masks-2020-4


And y'all wonder why I'm clamoring for oversight.

For people bad at math that's worth 2.2 Kennedy Centers that you bitched about.

$55 million to a company that went bankrupt last year, has no employees and has provided 0 masks.

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is paying Panthera $5.50 per mask, which is decidedly more than what the government pays companies with an established background in producing medical supplies such as 3M (the company charges about 63 cents per mask)."

I mean this is simply amazing how ridiculous this is.



Tell me what I can do about this? What power do I currently have to make this different?


Notice I didn't say it was ok if true or that I support it or how things are possibly being handled.

I'm asking you to tell me what I can do about it.

Since I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary, don't tell me to vote for the next fake ass politician who doesn't give a damn about the US people anyways. Lay it out for me what you want me or anyone else on this board to do. What is it?

"Open your eyes" doesn't count as a response either. What do you want us to do?

You feel like you can identify all the problems. You might can identify some. But WHAT THE F*$K DO YOU WANT ANYONE OF US TO DO? Or are you just bitching just to bitch? And if you are, you are bitching at the wrong people.

STFU up you insufferable ****.

[Commercecomet24]

Tell me what I can do about this? What power do I currently have to make this different?


Notice I didn't say it was ok if true or that I support it or how things are possibly being handled.

I'm asking you to tell me what I can do about it.

Since I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary, don't tell me to vote for the next fake ass politician who doesn't give a damn about the US people anyways. Lay it out for me what you want me or anyone else on this board to do. What is it?

"Open your eyes" doesn't count as a response either. What do you want us to do?

You feel like you can identify all the problems. You might can identify some. But WHAT THE F*$K DO YOU WANT ANYONE OF US TO DO? Or are you just bitching just to bitch? And if you are, you are bitching at the wrong people.

STFU up you insufferable ****.

Awesome!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQXuazYI_YU

[Johnson85]

$55 million dollars. POOF.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fema-paid-bankrupt-company-no-employees-55-million-n95-masks-2020-4


And y'all wonder why I'm clamoring for oversight.

For people bad at math that's worth 2.2 Kennedy Centers that you bitched about.

$55 million to a company that went bankrupt last year, has no employees and has provided 0 masks.

"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is paying Panthera $5.50 per mask, which is decidedly more than what the government pays companies with an established background in producing medical supplies such as 3M (the company charges about 63 cents per mask)."

I mean this is simply amazing how ridiculous this is.

There is probably somebody peddling influence there, but at least as of a few weeks ago, $5 was roughly the going price of n95 masks, if you could find them at all, which most people I talked to couldn't.

[hacker]

If someone has COVID-19 and dies of another cause they are reporting it as COVID-19 death, even though COVID-19 wasn't the actual cause but could have been a contributing factor.
No one is just making up death totals.

If someone has covid and gets murdered, I'm pretty sure that would not be a covid death because covid would not be a contributing factor in their death.

If someone is hospitalized with covid, and then has a heart attack in the hospital then yes that is a covid death. The death certificate would say heart attack with an underlying cause of covid. "Complications related to covid"

The same is true for any other disease. If someone has the flu and they're in the hospital and die of a heart attack, it's considered a flu death. "Complications related to influenza"

[Dawgfan77]

What is your source for this?

https://twitter.com/avik/status/1250482413978992641?s=21

https://abc7ny.com/oronavirus-nyc-death-toll-coronavirus-update-corona-virus/6103218/

[Extendedcab]

Deleted Post

[hacker]

https://twitter.com/avik/status/1250482413978992641?s=21

https://abc7ny.com/oronavirus-nyc-death-toll-coronavirus-update-corona-virus/6103218/

You missed a key detail. They get money for covid patients. They don't get extra money if the patient dies. They have no incentive to inflate death numbers.

The person has to test positive for them to get money.

All of the "probable" deaths have no positive test. No positive test, no money.

And they're listed as "probable" because the medical examiner put covid on the death certificate.

Again, death tolls are not inflated. Deaths are undercounted if anything.

[dantheman4248]

Tell me what I can do about this? What power do I currently have to make this different?


Notice I didn't say it was ok if true or that I support it or how things are possibly being handled.

I'm asking you to tell me what I can do about it.

Since I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary, don't tell me to vote for the next fake ass politician who doesn't give a damn about the US people anyways. Lay it out for me what you want me or anyone else on this board to do. What is it?

"Open your eyes" doesn't count as a response either. What do you want us to do?

You feel like you can identify all the problems. You might can identify some. But WHAT THE F*$K DO YOU WANT ANYONE OF US TO DO? Or are you just bitching just to bitch? And if you are, you are bitching at the wrong people.

STFU up you insufferable ****.

Vote. Spread news. Nothing is stronger than word of mouth. Speak out. Be informed of who the candidates are and what they have done. In 2016 America proved that we still have the ability to choose who our president is. It takes much more than you or me to do this.

Someone referenced it earlier, but it's such a great quote (and a great movie in general) i'm gonna bring it back up. "If you get shown a problem, but have no idea how to control it, you just decide to get used to the problem." Definitely applies here. I don't have all the answers and fixing this system is not a quick and easy process. But the first step to solving any problem... is admitting that there is a problem. So thank you, for being willing to take that step and admit that there is a problem. The only solution we have right now is to be the change we want to see in the world. So be informed. Inform others. Vote (even if it is abstaining. That's still a vote. (Here's wishing we could Brewster's Millions "None of the Above" this presidential campaign.)) Exercise your rights. Don't fall victim to the overwhelming system and feel like it can't be changed. Andrew Yang got hardly any votes in the democratic primaries; however, UBI has now come to the forefront of political discussion. That small of a voting bloc had the power to get that idea interjected into the conversation. That's where it starts. Grassroots movements can still happen and cause policy change even if they don't win. Bernie Sanders has definitely help shift the debate into realms that weren't thought possible on American soil. Change is possible. We just have to stay vigilant before it's too late.

[dantheman4248]

There is probably somebody peddling influence there, but at least as of a few weeks ago, $5 was roughly the going price of n95 masks, if you could find them at all, which most people I talked to couldn't.

The company is $50 million in debt apparently. Has a litany of creditors. Follow the money and I wonder who has ties to a few of those creditors.

How a bankrupt company got a sweetheart deal from Mr. The Art of the Deal when he was able to negotiate the same product from a much bigger and more powerful entity for 1/7 of the price just raises too many eyebrows.

[Dawgfan77]

You missed a key detail. They get money for covid patients. They don't get extra money if the patient dies. They have no incentive to inflate death numbers.

The person has to test positive for them to get money.

All of the "probable" deaths have no positive test. No positive test, no money.

And they're listed as "probable" because the medical examiner put covid on the death certificate.

Again, death tolls are not inflated. Deaths are undercounted if anything.

You been great with data.
But
Numbers were inflated in NY

[Dawgfan77]

The company is $50 million in debt apparently. Has a litany of creditors. Follow the money and I wonder who has ties to a few of those creditors.

How a bankrupt company got a sweetheart deal from Mr. The Art of the Deal when he was able to negotiate the same product from a much bigger and more powerful entity for 1/7 of the price just raises too many eyebrows.

Comrade. Please please have some vodka

Sorry about uncle Bernie and sleepy uncle joe

[Extendedcab]

Vote. Spread news. Nothing is stronger than word of mouth. Speak out. Be informed of who the candidates are and what they have done. In 2016 America proved that we still have the ability to choose who our president is. It takes much more than you or me to do this.

Someone referenced it earlier, but it's such a great quote (and a great movie in general) i'm gonna bring it back up. "If you get shown a problem, but have no idea how to control it, you just decide to get used to the problem." Definitely applies here. I don't have all the answers and fixing this system is not a quick and easy process. But the first step to solving any problem... is admitting that there is a problem. So thank you, for being willing to take that step and admit that there is a problem. The only solution we have right now is to be the change we want to see in the world. So be informed. Inform others. Vote (even if it is abstaining. That's still a vote. (Here's wishing we could Brewster's Millions "None of the Above" this presidential campaign.)) Exercise your rights. Don't fall victim to the overwhelming system and feel like it can't be changed. Andrew Yang got hardly any votes in the democratic primaries; however, UBI has now come to the forefront of political discussion. That small of a voting bloc had the power to get that idea interjected into the conversation. That's where it starts. Grassroots movements can still happen and cause policy change even if they don't win. Bernie Sanders has definitely help shift the debate into realms that weren't thought possible on American soil. Change is possible. We just have to stay vigilant before it's too late.

Sanders shifted the debate alright like as follows:

His stance on key issues:

Medicare for All: Government takeover of Healthcare
Green New Deal: BS carbon tax on Americans
Reproductive health care: Murder the unborn
Taxes: Will raise taxes to the point nobody will strive to be the best that can be and earn the most they can - why strive to earn more than $1M or whatever the cap is, the government will take the majority of your income. Taxes will drive behavior to be mediocre at best.
Voting rights: Felons and illegal aliens able to vote
College tuition: Another freebie that someone has to pay for - the middle class
Marijuana: Oh yeah, lets 17up every ones mind so they do not know whet the government is doing - who cares?
Education: Create class division - we all attend the same schools, the parents need to get involved to make an impact
Labor: Wants to overhaul labor laws and increase union membership and rights. All workers, union or not will have to pay union dues.

Yeah, I guess that is shifting the narrative - far to the LEFT away from individual rights and responsibilities to the Nanny state - the Big Ole Government will take care of us all to lazy to work. No incentive to work as you will be taxed into oblivion.

You really need to move to a non-democratic/replublic country. You will be a lot happier and so will we!

[hacker]

You been great with data.
But
Numbers were inflated in NY

Posting these again.

https://i.imgur.com/oubRHUP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MVByFxs.jpg

This is showing the total number of deaths of any cause. Compare to the month when 9/11 happened. More deaths than any month in 20 years.

And this is 12 days old. The numbers are even worse now.

[Dawgfan77]

Posting these again.



https://i.imgur.com/oubRHUP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/MVByFxs.jpg

This is showing the total number of deaths of any cause. Compare to the month when 9/11 happened. More deaths than any month in 20 years.

And this is 12 days old. The numbers are even worse now.

WRONG

[hacker]

I will try to simplify this even further.

In NYC, over the past 5 years, an average of 5500 people died from March 11 - April 13th.

From March 11 - April 13th this year, 18500 died.

That's 13000 more expected deaths than usual.

The confirmed # of coronavirus deaths on April 13 was 7905.

[hacker]

WRONG

"YOUR FACTS ARE WRONG"

[msstate7]

I will try to simplify this even further.

In NYC, over the past 5 years, an average of 5500 people died from March 11 - April 13th.

From March 11 - April 13th this year, 18500 died.

That's 13000 more expected deaths than usual.

The confirmed # of coronavirus deaths on April 13 was 7905.

Where are those numbers available at? I'd like to see monthly breaks downs by cause if possible

[Dawgfan77]

"YOUR FACTS ARE WRONG"
Look beyond CNN and MSNBC.....
Comrade!

[Dawgfan77]

Where are those numbers available at? I'd like to see monthly breaks downs by cause if possible

You can find those numbers on the left outlets

[BeardoMSU]

Look beyond CNN and MSNBC.....
Comrade!

Jesus Christ. Hacker hasn't said shit about communism in this thread, dipshit. STFU.

[chef dixon]

I think the tentative plan for re-opening is as fair as we can expect regardless of where you stand on the issue. Will be interesting to see how its actually enacted.

[defiantdog]

Stats are stats..... believe them or don't..... who cares..... what matters is that this virus is affecting people's lives and we're going to get through it one way or another.

[msstate7]

You can find those numbers on the left outlets

Haha... hacker is pretty good about having sources. I really do wanna dig into the numbers

[Dawgfan77]

Jesus Christ. Hacker hasn't said shit about communism in this thread, dipshit. STFU.
HAhaha.

Point taken

[Dawgfan77]

Jesus Christ. Hacker hasn't said shit about communism in this thread, dipshit. STFU.

I hate i was offensive

I'm just sayin there is evidence that numbers have been inflated.

[BeardoMSU]

I hate i was offensive

I'm just sayin there is evidence that numbers have been inflated.

Thank you.

[Commercecomet24]

See we can all play nice together !

[defiantdog]

i thought all of the hospitals were supposed to run out of beds by now.

[Todd4State]

i thought all of the hospitals were supposed to run out of beds by now.

They were. But thankfully it didn't happen. I know when I walk around there are A LOT of empty beds where I work. It's a blessing. Also where I work the number of patients on vents is going down as well. Still above the norm but headed in the right direction.

The most disappointing thing to me from the front lines has been watching the media blow it out of proportion and outright lie at times. It's a little different when you have a front row seat to the lying.

[defiantdog]

They were. But thankfully it didn't happen. I know when I walk around there are A LOT of empty beds where I work. It's a blessing. Also where I work the number of patients on vents is going down as well. Still above the norm but headed in the right direction.

The most disappointing thing to me from the front lines has been watching the media blow it out of proportion and outright lie at times. It's a little different when you have a front row seat to the lying.

Agreed..... they're fixated on New York because of the influx in cases. They haven't really ventured off to more rural areas. The situation sucks either way you look at it.

[dawgday166]

See we can all play nice together !

You forgot these ***** haha!

Probably would be a true statement when we ain't getting communism shoved down our throat. We got a lot of issues in this country and there are some big bankers that should be in jail for life because of 2008 but ... we ain't standing in line at grocery stores for the bare meat & potato essentials and our poor folks that aren't homeless actually have almost as high a standard of dwellings in most cases to rival the middle class in England. And they usually have the highest dollar cell phones too.

Don't think any of that is due to UBI either.

[Commercecomet24]

You forgot these ***** haha!

Probably would be a true statement when we ain't getting communism shoved down our throat. We got a lot of issues in this country and there are some big bankers that should be in jail for life because of 2008 but ... we ain't standing in line at grocery stores for the bare meat & potato essentials and our poor folks that aren't homeless actually have almost as high a standard of dwellings in most cases to rival the middle class in England. And they usually have the highest dollar cell phones too.

Don't think any of that is due to UBI either.

I was trying to lighten the mood a little lol.

[dawgday166]

I was trying to lighten the mood a little lol.

Ok .. my bad. The tangents that have nothing to do with Covid are unreal in this thread.

[Commercecomet24]

Ok .. my bad. The tangents that have nothing to do with Covid are unreal in this thread.

Oh it's no prob. We good. But yeah this thread has gotten twilight zone wild at times!

[BeardoMSU]

I was trying to lighten the mood a little lol.

And its welcomed, lol.

[Commercecomet24]

And its welcomed, lol.

Thanks buddy! It's an emotional time full of uncertainty and I'm sure it gets to all of us at times and you can tell emotions get raw on here at times.

[BeardoMSU]

Thanks buddy! It's an emotional time full of uncertainty and I'm sure it gets to all of us at times and you can tell emotions get raw on here at times.

I was disappointed no one laughed at my R. Kelly joke***

[Commercecomet24]

I was disappointed no one laughed at my R. Kelly joke***

I'm sorry I must've missed it but you know you're the funniest dude on here!

[dantheman4248]

Sanders shifted the debate alright like as follows:

His stance on key issues:

Medicare for All: Government takeover of Healthcare
Green New Deal: BS carbon tax on Americans
Reproductive health care: Murder the unborn
Taxes: Will raise taxes to the point nobody will strive to be the best that can be and earn the most they can - why strive to earn more than $1M or whatever the cap is, the government will take the majority of your income. Taxes will drive behavior to be mediocre at best.
Voting rights: Felons and illegal aliens able to vote
College tuition: Another freebie that someone has to pay for - the middle class
Marijuana: Oh yeah, lets 17up every ones mind so they do not know whet the government is doing - who cares?
Education: Create class division - we all attend the same schools, the parents need to get involved to make an impact
Labor: Wants to overhaul labor laws and increase union membership and rights. All workers, union or not will have to pay union dues.

Yeah, I guess that is shifting the narrative - far to the LEFT away from individual rights and responsibilities to the Nanny state - the Big Ole Government will take care of us all to lazy to work. No incentive to work as you will be taxed into oblivion.

You really need to move to a non-democratic/replublic country. You will be a lot happier and so will we!

MFA - we clearly fundamentally disagree that healthcare should be a basic human right. I can't sway you. As I've told you before reread the 10 commandments and tell me where you feel like you should fall on that issue. You have your religious interpretation, I have mine.

Green New Deal - If you're a "global warming isn't real" type... man. Idk.

Reproductive healthcare - Why didn't pregnant women get an extra $500 if unborns count as babies?
(Sidenote: abortion is one issue I do not like to touch. It's scary to craft an opinion on because when we ultimately decide, we have to decide what is a human and what is not. Once we do that, we could grow humans in a lab by that definition. That feels morally weird and wrong. So I generally abstain from that debate. Only ask for consistency across all policies if someone is going to have a strong opinion on it because I don't think anyone actually should.)

Taxes- ... do you think he's taxing 90% or something? I'm genuinely curious if you understand how tax brackets work. I have a feeling you're misinformed on that basic principle (like way too many Americans are).

Voting rights- I don't believe those move the needle near as much as what the Russians did to us last cycle. I'm of the opinion to leave this up to the States. I don't have to see eye-to-eye on everything.

College Tuition- If you think it's the middle class that would foot this bill then you really don't understand how uneven the wealth gap is. (If you made $1000/hr for every hr since the beginning of 1 AD.... you aren't 1/5 as rich as Jeff Bezos. You aren't in the top 20 of rich Americans. Besides that, this is one of those things that would mitigate your "laziness" claim. Americans would have the freedom to pursue their interests and do things they want to do. Instead of forcing themselves only into jobs that can pay bills. And guess what would happen to that middle class that "would foot the bill", that bill of college debt would be gone. I'm assuming you don't understand how ridiculous college has gotten. In my 6 years at MSU, tuition increased over 33%. The costs keep rising and it's an absolute joke.

Marijuana - Sounds like you would be better suited smack dab in 1930. Prohibition is more your speed. Let's ban alcohol. Or let's regulate something that people are going to use anyways and get tax dollars out of it. (If you were to argue against legalization, the only two points that are fair imo are to argue against the taxing and that the government will dilute the product / so you don't want regulation on it.) The fact that you see this harmless plant as something to actively fight against tells me you need to roll one and chill the **** out. (Fun fact, I've only smoked a handful of times. Not for me. But I can see it's merits. So inb4 you label me a stoner too. I'm a drunk, get it right.)

Education - I don't even understand your rambling at this point. I'm confused what you could mean here. Are you arguing against private schools? Education system shows you a lot of what the basis would happen with gov healthcare. You can still opt to get privatized if you want, but we ensure everyone has the bare minimum. That's what I want for healthcare. (Not everyone forced on the same plan bs you seem to think.)

Labor - if you think unions are bad then you are horribly, horribly lost. While I do agree that you should have the option to opt out, the fact of the matter is that without unions you see atrocities like amazon warehouses. Being generally against adding protections to the middle class just seems like a weird stance to take for someone who wants to protect their tax dollars.

As for your conclusion. You should get more informed on issues. You parroted bad versions of the extreme right versions of these arguments. If you think the issue is that Americans are too lazy to work (for the first time in history) instead of the fact that the middle class QOL is overall being squeezed and pushed further and further down, then you are mistaken. The fact is that most middle class Americans can't afford to own property anymore. Nothing to do with laziness and everything to do with a system that disproportionately compensates.

I mean really. How ****ing dare you call Americans lazy when so many of us are put into the "essential worker roles", labeled as heroes, and shown minimal to no extra compensation. So many of these people can't earn a wage that allows them to buy a house but they're essential to the fabric of our nation. AND YOU CALL THEM LAZY. You're an entitled uppity twat if that's how you really feel. Go move to Russia, their system and people align more with your beliefs than America. (Makes a lot of sense why you want Donald.)

[dantheman4248]

I was disappointed no one laughed at my R. Kelly joke***

I laughed. Can't spread rep around to you yet. I guess I need to be more liberal in who I give rep to, to reward good jokes properly.

[dantheman4248]

You forgot these ***** haha!

Probably would be a true statement when we ain't getting communism shoved down our throat. We got a lot of issues in this country and there are some big bankers that should be in jail for life because of 2008 but ... we ain't standing in line at grocery stores for the bare meat & potato essentials and our poor folks that aren't homeless actually have almost as high a standard of dwellings in most cases to rival the middle class in England. And they usually have the highest dollar cell phones too.

Don't think any of that is due to UBI either.

In regards to that meat and potato line, it got somewhat scary here for a while with the 100 limit in store shit. Surreal thing to witness for sure.

[Matt3467]

I don't like that a "front line health worker" would say the hysteria is solely due to the media. Hopefully by now you have changed your tune.

Without getting into specifics, I work with data, analytics, and emrs to help better streamline patient care across all fronts. I'm privy to some of the data and stats that I'm continually told on here that I have no clue about or am a dumbass.

I'm not the one out of touch. It's actually really rich for someone who blamed the media to say that. I'm curious if you still hold that opinion or you have gathered more data and changed your tune. I hope so.


I never said he did not work in healthcare. That's putting words in my mouth. I said he likely doesn't do anything healthcare related. IE, work closely with patients / data to where he would be able to see what's going on. He can be closer in physical proximity while being further from understanding what's happening.

I consider the front lines to be doctors / nurses / people of that ilk. They are up close and personal AND they have access to the data. That's my criteria for the front lines. But being close to the action does not mean understanding the action.

If jimbob lived right next to the hospital and worked an accounting job remotely would you consider him closer to the action than joedan who quarantined out in the sticks with his internet access helping view patient data and give input based on what was recorded. I mean jimbob is right next to it every day. Surely he's closer than joedan right?

Matt showed a clear lack of understanding of the seriousness of the issue and joined the countless others in this thread that have been proven wrong time and again. If he's privy to patient data then he would surely have had a different opinion. If he's seriously an RN then his coworkers would be sickened to hear him calling this a media craze.

No I've not changed my opinion. If anything recent events have reinforced my opinion. https://imgur.com/a/tH61SGX

If numbers are being added to the coronavirus death toll of those that haven't even tested positive then the legitimacy of the coronavirus death toll numbers are gone. *Let me be clear that I'm in no way saying people aren't dying to the coronavirus just that the numbers can't be trusted* Here's another link to the NYT reporting on the death toll in New York going up by the thousands after they included those that were "presumed" to have died of COVID but were never tested: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0OnTYeH4sDt8w0q_zqS3Nvr7vf4qfT3TXCFDXd3 LA7d0uofkK7Dl5lgbM

Another factor that has been hit on here are the death total projections that went from astronomically high to now in the 60k range - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
I realize a main defense for that has been the social distancing put in place but I like some others on here believe that this virus has been here for some time maybe even as early as December but of course this paragraph and even the link (death projections) are all speculation and we can argue this to death. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I read a post by Hacker earlier that responded to one of the others mentioning the coronavirus deaths and numbers being misleading where he said (I'm paraphrasing so forgive me Hacker if it's not completely accurate), "If someone has COVID but is murdered then that death will go down as a murder." It should but I don't believe even that is as clear cut. While not a murder per say you may or may not be aware of the 6 wk old baby that died in CT a little while back and the governor and media were sensationalizing the child's death as the "youngest victim to succumb to COVID19." Later it was claimed the death was due to accidental suffocation by the caretaker but more specifics weren't released out of "sensitivity to the parents." The child tested positive for the coronavirus postmortem and the governor and media ran with it. Either way the coroner has yet to rule and the governor has walked back his statements.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193487/Coroner-refuses-rule-COVID-19-cause-death-six-week-old-Connecticut-baby.html
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral-video-candace-owens-accuses-governor-of-lying-about-newborns-coronavirus-linked-death-calls-for-resignation?fbclid=IwAR08H9687YGL6HoBZwg3jXmlcceBb OhZzn343ciCtxYdPMOB8FaxpGR9beU

Our hospitals here are operating with very low patient census and I live and work in a bigger city. I realize that due to elective surgeries and what not being for the most part delayed until further notice play a large part in this but we were also preparing for a large surge in COVID patients which while we have a few positives it's nothing like we prepared for (Good thing). The bad part is that nurses are being laid off. Last I heard the number we laid off here recently was around the 800 mark but that was last week and that's one hospital. I have friends saying the same thing about their hospitals in other states. A hospital in OK City just closed and only left the ER and some outpatient areas open. Many nurses were laid off. I also speak with several that travel nurse and a few that were in the process of going to New York. I actually looked into it as well since it paid north of $10,000 a week. That was about two or so weeks ago I believe and now those contracts to NY are being cancelled (these were mostly 13 week contracts). It's not just New York contracts being cancelled but Cali, Wash, LA some of the hardest hit areas that were begging for help all of sudden no longer need nurses. I'm grateful to still have a job but to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if I was looking for a new one at some point. Here I was thinking that by going into the medical field I'd never have to worry about job security.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-pandemic-jobs-us-health-care-workers-furloughed-laid-off/5102320002/

Your statement that other nurses would be disgusted by my opinions of the media and it's role during this difficult time is painting with a very broad brush. It's akin to saying since I support one candidate then all supporters of the other would hate me. No I know many that more or less are of the same mindset. While some may not be as extreme you'd be surprised. Of course there's those that would vilify my standing and I know them and avoid talking about it around them. Just like anything else.

*Btw the highlighted portion of your comment is a lie.* I won't repost your comment saying I don't because you should know what you said.

[dawgday166]

In regards to that meat and potato line, it got somewhat scary here for a while with the 100 limit in store shit. Surreal thing to witness for sure.

But you trying to bring that to America. Cause that's what communism is like dude. That's what it's like when everybody has the "basic" living conditions. There are fewer elites at the top, and an equal class that is about like our poorest. No in between much to speak of. The store shelves are mostly bare.

ETA: And here's something to think about. EVERYTHING the govt gets involved in, medicine (medicare/medicaid), education (student loans), etc. costs go up and quality goes down. Every time. And things govt really should regulate (like banking) they decided starting in about 1980 to deregulate and over time 2008 happened. There are things the govt should regulate, but most of the rest they should be mostly hands-off of. Let states do what maybe should be done in most of those areas.

[msstate7]

How many are out there with covid19 and have no idea? Could be a lot... 60% of cases on USS Theodore Roosevelt were asymptotic. This is a huge number.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

Then there's another number we don't have, recovered among the asymptotic.

[dawgday166]

How many are out there with covid19 and have no idea? Could be a lot... 60% of cases on USS Theodore Roosevelt were asymptotic. This is a huge number.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

Then there's another number we don't have, recovered among the asymptotic.

What's the definition of "recovered among asymptotoc" ... you meant asymptomatic didn't you? But even then, if you never develop symptoms, what do you have to recover from. Maybe the disease is "active" among them with no symptoms and after that they'll test negative and an antibody test is needed to find out if they have had it??

[msstate7]

What's the definition of "recovered among asymptotoc" ... you meant asymptomatic didn't you? But even then, if you never develop symptoms, what do you have to recover from. Maybe the disease is "active" among them with no symptoms and after that they'll test negative and an antibody test is needed to find out if they have had it??

I thought it was "asymptomatic", but the article made me question it. Here's an exert from the article...

"The Navy found that out of the 48-hundred member crew - about 600 were positive for the virus. 60 percent of those were asymptotic."

This made me question my use of "asymptomatic".

As far as "recovered"... yeah, bad word choice, but you get what I'm saying

[Dawgfan77]

No I've not changed my opinion. If anything recent events have reinforced my opinion. https://imgur.com/a/tH61SGX

If numbers are being added to the coronavirus death toll of those that haven't even tested positive then the legitimacy of the coronavirus death toll numbers are gone. *Let me be clear that I'm in no way saying people aren't dying to the coronavirus just that the numbers can't be trusted* Here's another link to the NYT reporting on the death toll in New York going up by the thousands after they included those that were "presumed" to have died of COVID but were never tested: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0OnTYeH4sDt8w0q_zqS3Nvr7vf4qfT3TXCFDXd3 LA7d0uofkK7Dl5lgbM

Another factor that has been hit on here are the death total projections that went from astronomically high to now in the 60k range - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
I realize a main defense for that has been the social distancing put in place but I like some others on here believe that this virus has been here for some time maybe even as early as December but of course this paragraph and even the link (death projections) are all speculation and we can argue this to death. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I read a post by Hacker earlier that responded to one of the others mentioning the coronavirus deaths and numbers being misleading where he said (I'm paraphrasing so forgive me Hacker if it's not completely accurate), "If someone has COVID but is murdered then that death will go down as a murder." It should but I don't believe even that is as clear cut. While not a murder per say you may or may not be aware of the 6 wk old baby that died in CT a little while back and the governor and media were sensationalizing the child's death as the "youngest victim to succumb to COVID19." Later it was claimed the death was due to accidental suffocation by the caretaker but more specifics weren't released out of "sensitivity to the parents." The child tested positive for the coronavirus postmortem and the governor and media ran with it. Either way the coroner has yet to rule and the governor has walked back his statements.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193487/Coroner-refuses-rule-COVID-19-cause-death-six-week-old-Connecticut-baby.html
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral-video-candace-owens-accuses-governor-of-lying-about-newborns-coronavirus-linked-death-calls-for-resignation?fbclid=IwAR08H9687YGL6HoBZwg3jXmlcceBb OhZzn343ciCtxYdPMOB8FaxpGR9beU

Our hospitals here are operating with very low patient census and I live and work in a bigger city. I realize that due to elective surgeries and what not being for the most part delayed until further notice play a large part in this but we were also preparing for a large surge in COVID patients which while we have a few positives it's nothing like we prepared for (Good thing). The bad part is that nurses are being laid off. Last I heard the number we laid off here recently was around the 800 mark but that was last week and that's one hospital. I have friends saying the same thing about their hospitals in other states. A hospital in OK City just closed and only left the ER and some outpatient areas open. Many nurses were laid off. I also speak with several that travel nurse and a few that were in the process of going to New York. I actually looked into it as well since it paid north of $10,000 a week. That was about two or so weeks ago I believe and now those contracts to NY are being cancelled (these were mostly 13 week contracts). It's not just New York contracts being cancelled but Cali, Wash, LA some of the hardest hit areas that were begging for help all of sudden no longer need nurses. I'm grateful to still have a job but to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if I was looking for a new one at some point. Here I was thinking that by going into the medical field I'd never have to worry about job security.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-pandemic-jobs-us-health-care-workers-furloughed-laid-off/5102320002/

Your statement that other nurses would be disgusted by my opinions of the media and it's role during this difficult time is painting with a very broad brush. It's akin to saying since I support one candidate then all supporters of the other would hate me. No I know many that more or less are of the same mindset. While some may not be as extreme you'd be surprised. Of course there's those that would vilify my standing and I know them and avoid talking about it around them. Just like anything else.

*Btw the highlighted portion of your comment is a lie.* I won't repost your comment saying I don't because you should know what you said.

Best post of the thread. Thank you

[StateDawg44]

Tell me what I can do about this? What power do I currently have to make this different?


Notice I didn't say it was ok if true or that I support it or how things are possibly being handled.

I'm asking you to tell me what I can do about it.

Since I didn't vote for Trump or Hillary, don't tell me to vote for the next fake ass politician who doesn't give a damn about the US people anyways. Lay it out for me what you want me or anyone else on this board to do. What is it?

"Open your eyes" doesn't count as a response either. What do you want us to do?

You feel like you can identify all the problems. You might can identify some. But WHAT THE F*$K DO YOU WANT ANYONE OF US TO DO? Or are you just bitching just to bitch? And if you are, you are bitching at the wrong people.




1.Vote. Spread news. Nothing is stronger than word of mouth. Speak out. 2.Be informed of who the candidates are and what they have done. In 2016 America proved that we still have the ability to choose who our president is. It takes much more than you or me to do this.

Someone referenced it earlier, but it's such a great quote (and a great movie in general) i'm gonna bring it back up. "If you get shown a problem, but have no idea how to control it, you just decide to get used to the problem." Definitely applies here. I don't have all the answers and fixing this system is not a quick and easy process. But the first step to solving any problem... is admitting that there is a problem. So thank you, for being willing to take that step and admit that there is a problem. 3. The only solution we have right now is to be the change we want to see in the world. So be informed. Inform others. Vote (even if it is abstaining. That's still a vote. (Here's wishing we could Brewster's Millions "None of the Above" this presidential campaign.)) Exercise your rights. Don't fall victim to the overwhelming system and feel like it can't be changed. Andrew Yang got hardly any votes in the democratic primaries; however, 4UBI has now come to the forefront of political discussion. That small of a voting bloc had the power to get that idea interjected into the conversation. That's where it starts. Grassroots movements can still happen and cause policy change even if they don't win. Bernie Sanders has definitely help shift the debate into realms that weren't thought possible on American soil. Change is possible. We just have to stay vigilant before it's too late.


1. Literally the first word of your response is what I said not to tell me is a solution. Politicians will do whatever they or their puppeteers pull their strings and tell them to do. Thanks for nothing.

2. You can be informed and still have nothing but crooked ass politician to choose from. (Like every presidential election I've been able to vote in) By the time they are in the position to be elected president (or any other high ranking office) they are so bought and have their pockets so lined it defeats the purpose. The fact that you believe any politician, republican or democrat will make the right decisions for the American people without some sort of angle being played is the problem. You just lap up whatever the side you are on says.

3. So all your political posts on here are you being the change in this world that we all need?.... Fail. IF ANYTHING they are divisive.

4. He would remain with hardly any votes if it weren't for so many people losing their jobs and looking for something to help them through this. This isn't going to last forever. Guarantee you when things get back to normal most of those who signed up for UBI would be complaining about where the rest of their check was. Or as someone else posted, efficiency and work ethic would plummet because there is no benefit to working harder than the next guy. To pretend like everyone has the same initiative and motivation is foolish.


Sorry folks. I know this is political and irrelevant to the COVID thread. I'll drop it with this post.

[dantheman4248]

There are things the govt should regulate, but most of the rest they should be mostly hands-off of.

Agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Where we differ is on what those things are. I'm not for true communism (and I think this keeps getting puppeted because early in the thread I made a point to show extendedcab why imposing his religious beliefs are in bad faith on the government. He doesn't want to follow his religion if it doesn't serve him.

As for education, last I checked it's free public education up to 18... no? When we get into college institutions that's where we keep seeing the dollar amount go higher and higher. And the quality going down is a matter of perspective. For the top, quality sure goes down, but for the bottom we create a safety net and bring that quality up. It's kind of a ****ed up proposition really. How low are we willing to let our worst fall to allow our highest reach their heights? The answer to that is the root of our difference of opinion.

[dantheman4248]

No I've not changed my opinion. If anything recent events have reinforced my opinion. https://imgur.com/a/tH61SGX

If numbers are being added to the coronavirus death toll of those that haven't even tested positive then the legitimacy of the coronavirus death toll numbers are gone. *Let me be clear that I'm in no way saying people aren't dying to the coronavirus just that the numbers can't be trusted* Here's another link to the NYT reporting on the death toll in New York going up by the thousands after they included those that were "presumed" to have died of COVID but were never tested: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0OnTYeH4sDt8w0q_zqS3Nvr7vf4qfT3TXCFDXd3 LA7d0uofkK7Dl5lgbM

Another factor that has been hit on here are the death total projections that went from astronomically high to now in the 60k range - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
I realize a main defense for that has been the social distancing put in place but I like some others on here believe that this virus has been here for some time maybe even as early as December but of course this paragraph and even the link (death projections) are all speculation and we can argue this to death. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I read a post by Hacker earlier that responded to one of the others mentioning the coronavirus deaths and numbers being misleading where he said (I'm paraphrasing so forgive me Hacker if it's not completely accurate), "If someone has COVID but is murdered then that death will go down as a murder." It should but I don't believe even that is as clear cut. While not a murder per say you may or may not be aware of the 6 wk old baby that died in CT a little while back and the governor and media were sensationalizing the child's death as the "youngest victim to succumb to COVID19." Later it was claimed the death was due to accidental suffocation by the caretaker but more specifics weren't released out of "sensitivity to the parents." The child tested positive for the coronavirus postmortem and the governor and media ran with it. Either way the coroner has yet to rule and the governor has walked back his statements.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193487/Coroner-refuses-rule-COVID-19-cause-death-six-week-old-Connecticut-baby.html
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral-video-candace-owens-accuses-governor-of-lying-about-newborns-coronavirus-linked-death-calls-for-resignation?fbclid=IwAR08H9687YGL6HoBZwg3jXmlcceBb OhZzn343ciCtxYdPMOB8FaxpGR9beU

Our hospitals here are operating with very low patient census and I live and work in a bigger city. I realize that due to elective surgeries and what not being for the most part delayed until further notice play a large part in this but we were also preparing for a large surge in COVID patients which while we have a few positives it's nothing like we prepared for (Good thing). The bad part is that nurses are being laid off. Last I heard the number we laid off here recently was around the 800 mark but that was last week and that's one hospital. I have friends saying the same thing about their hospitals in other states. A hospital in OK City just closed and only left the ER and some outpatient areas open. Many nurses were laid off. I also speak with several that travel nurse and a few that were in the process of going to New York. I actually looked into it as well since it paid north of $10,000 a week. That was about two or so weeks ago I believe and now those contracts to NY are being cancelled (these were mostly 13 week contracts). It's not just New York contracts being cancelled but Cali, Wash, LA some of the hardest hit areas that were begging for help all of sudden no longer need nurses. I'm grateful to still have a job but to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if I was looking for a new one at some point. Here I was thinking that by going into the medical field I'd never have to worry about job security.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-pandemic-jobs-us-health-care-workers-furloughed-laid-off/5102320002/

Your statement that other nurses would be disgusted by my opinions of the media and it's role during this difficult time is painting with a very broad brush. It's akin to saying since I support one candidate then all supporters of the other would hate me. No I know many that more or less are of the same mindset. While some may not be as extreme you'd be surprised. Of course there's those that would vilify my standing and I know them and avoid talking about it around them. Just like anything else.

*Btw the highlighted portion of your comment is a lie.* I won't repost your comment saying I don't because you should know what you said.

Pray tell, why are people dying so much more than normal then. Explain the huge spike in NY if not for Corona if the death count is being inflated. How you can look at those stats, work in healthcare and still be forcibly ignorant are a complete and total disgrace.

And the fact of the matter that you puppet the stance about how could the projections be so high until we did what the doctor ordered. Sounds like the patient who stops taking the antibiotic because they got better and thinks the doctor is stupid for having prescribed it. If you're really an RN you should see the similarity in your beliefs and hopefully do some self reflection.

[chef dixon]

The "not counting deaths" properly is a tired discussion. If physicians are reporting cause of death, then this is actually quite easy to do correctly. Regardless, the total is not going to be that statistically different. I'm not convinced we don't get to more than 60k deaths reported the way its looking right now. The course of this disease in the USA in general is still fairly early. Its hard to comprehend in Mississippi because it, and many other places, are light year different situations than NYC or NJ. Not saying this to argue we shouldn't be trying to open things up slowly, because we should. But I keep seeing people downplaying this due to projections yet we are sitting here in mid-April at 34k and rising pretty steadily, and no one has opened up anything yet. The death toll is going to be a large number before this Summer is over, but I'm not sure how you avoid it eventually without a vaccine.

[Commercecomet24]

No I've not changed my opinion. If anything recent events have reinforced my opinion. https://imgur.com/a/tH61SGX

If numbers are being added to the coronavirus death toll of those that haven't even tested positive then the legitimacy of the coronavirus death toll numbers are gone. *Let me be clear that I'm in no way saying people aren't dying to the coronavirus just that the numbers can't be trusted* Here's another link to the NYT reporting on the death toll in New York going up by the thousands after they included those that were "presumed" to have died of COVID but were never tested: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus-deaths.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR0OnTYeH4sDt8w0q_zqS3Nvr7vf4qfT3TXCFDXd3 LA7d0uofkK7Dl5lgbM

Another factor that has been hit on here are the death total projections that went from astronomically high to now in the 60k range - https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america
I realize a main defense for that has been the social distancing put in place but I like some others on here believe that this virus has been here for some time maybe even as early as December but of course this paragraph and even the link (death projections) are all speculation and we can argue this to death. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I read a post by Hacker earlier that responded to one of the others mentioning the coronavirus deaths and numbers being misleading where he said (I'm paraphrasing so forgive me Hacker if it's not completely accurate), "If someone has COVID but is murdered then that death will go down as a murder." It should but I don't believe even that is as clear cut. While not a murder per say you may or may not be aware of the 6 wk old baby that died in CT a little while back and the governor and media were sensationalizing the child's death as the "youngest victim to succumb to COVID19." Later it was claimed the death was due to accidental suffocation by the caretaker but more specifics weren't released out of "sensitivity to the parents." The child tested positive for the coronavirus postmortem and the governor and media ran with it. Either way the coroner has yet to rule and the governor has walked back his statements.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8193487/Coroner-refuses-rule-COVID-19-cause-death-six-week-old-Connecticut-baby.html
https://www.dailywire.com/news/viral-video-candace-owens-accuses-governor-of-lying-about-newborns-coronavirus-linked-death-calls-for-resignation?fbclid=IwAR08H9687YGL6HoBZwg3jXmlcceBb OhZzn343ciCtxYdPMOB8FaxpGR9beU

Our hospitals here are operating with very low patient census and I live and work in a bigger city. I realize that due to elective surgeries and what not being for the most part delayed until further notice play a large part in this but we were also preparing for a large surge in COVID patients which while we have a few positives it's nothing like we prepared for (Good thing). The bad part is that nurses are being laid off. Last I heard the number we laid off here recently was around the 800 mark but that was last week and that's one hospital. I have friends saying the same thing about their hospitals in other states. A hospital in OK City just closed and only left the ER and some outpatient areas open. Many nurses were laid off. I also speak with several that travel nurse and a few that were in the process of going to New York. I actually looked into it as well since it paid north of $10,000 a week. That was about two or so weeks ago I believe and now those contracts to NY are being cancelled (these were mostly 13 week contracts). It's not just New York contracts being cancelled but Cali, Wash, LA some of the hardest hit areas that were begging for help all of sudden no longer need nurses. I'm grateful to still have a job but to be fair I wouldn't be surprised if I was looking for a new one at some point. Here I was thinking that by going into the medical field I'd never have to worry about job security.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/04/02/coronavirus-pandemic-jobs-us-health-care-workers-furloughed-laid-off/5102320002/

Your statement that other nurses would be disgusted by my opinions of the media and it's role during this difficult time is painting with a very broad brush. It's akin to saying since I support one candidate then all supporters of the other would hate me. No I know many that more or less are of the same mindset. While some may not be as extreme you'd be surprised. Of course there's those that would vilify my standing and I know them and avoid talking about it around them. Just like anything else.

*Btw the highlighted portion of your comment is a lie.* I won't repost your comment saying I don't because you should know what you said.

Well said! This goes right along with what every hospital administrator, doctor, nurse, etc. that I know(and I know a ton)because it's what I do, has been telling me.

[dantheman4248]

1. Literally the first word of your response is what I said not to tell me is a solution. Politicians will do whatever they or their puppeteers pull their strings and tell them to do. Thanks for nothing.

2. You can be informed and still have nothing but crooked ass politician to choose from. (Like every presidential election I've been able to vote in) By the time they are in the position to be elected president (or any other high ranking office) they are so bought and have their pockets so lined it defeats the purpose. The fact that you believe any politician, republican or democrat will make the right decisions for the American people without some sort of angle being played is the problem. You just lap up whatever the side you are on says.

3. So all your political posts on here are you being the change in this world that we all need?.... Fail. IF ANYTHING they are divisive.

4. He would remain with hardly any votes if it weren't for so many people losing their jobs and looking for something to help them through this. This isn't going to last forever. Guarantee you when things get back to normal most of those who signed up for UBI would be complaining about where the rest of their check was. Or as someone else posted, efficiency and work ethic would plummet because there is no benefit to working harder than the next guy. To pretend like everyone has the same initiative and motivation is foolish.


Sorry folks. I know this is political and irrelevant to the COVID thread. I'll drop it with this post.

1. I said Vote. Not vote for a fake ass politician. Vote for someone real. If they aren't there, abstain/write none of the above. I don't expect you to vote for Biden or Trump. It's picking between a bumbling idiot and a wannabe dictator.

2. The fact that Trump made it in office makes me disagree here. He's crooked, don't get me wrong, but he wasn't establishment crooked. He initially upset the power balance and now has the entire republican serving his interests to keep the crooked train going. It will be interesting to see the goodwill lost there among the American people if he loses. Bernie himself is one that wasn't bought. If only more people would be informed and vote.

3. Disagree. A lot of people here are prideful and won't admit when their argument loses. But they know. Same as a pastor who preaches the cross and shames sinners. They won't admit it, but they know that they're wrong. Look no further than when a person drops off the conversation with a deflection to a separate reason than the argument. Believe me, that $55 million is eye-opening.

Another point is that I don't like to live in an echo chamber. No progress is made when everyone agrees. If all your friends and acquaintances share every belief the same as you, you're either dead (in heaven) or hurting yourself in the long run.

4. He was out of the race before COVID was a thing. His main goal was to get his ideas into discussion for the overall democratic platform. That idea was accelerated by the disease sure, but it was a main point of interest before. Many people looked at him as someone to keep in mind down the road. Voting isn't just about the next 4 years. Voting can be about 10-20 years down the line. Too many people are only focused on what's in front of their face that they refuse to see the long term effects of anything.

[Dawgfan77]

Take the L and move on

People die everyday and the fact NY hospitals are coding those as covid and not testing is fraudulent and it's adding fear to those on the fence.

I'm not going to argue with you because your pushing an agenda and hey we get it. I mean up until two weeks ago we lived in a free country so part of that is freedom of speech. Your pushing a socialist idealism and much like your party are pushing this one to create fear and two your parties blind hatred to the president

This game is getting out of hand. And it's time for this country to move on and get back to life as we once knew it. In 2018 60-70K died of the flue and we had a vaccine at that time. We didn't shut the country down! It's my belief that while the left couldn't impeach trump they decided to get on board with this virus and create fear and doom for everyone to sabotage the worlds best economy in order to create political unrest against the president. Look no further than them criticizing him for travel bans in January and February and now saying he didn't do enough. Regardless of your political leanings he has done a good job and once again those dems look like they have taken the L.
Outside of NY/NJ the national death toll is around 10-15K. Add in the "numbers " from NY/NJ (Dem govs) we get to the 28K. And now that we know that the numbers are inflated we should not be as afraid of this virus as the left wants us to be

In closing stop with your fear of this. Be cautious and smart but let's not give up the rights we have and our ancestors fought for.

[dantheman4248]

Take the L and move on

People die everyday and the fact NY hospitals are coding those as covid and not testing is fraudulent and it's adding fear to those on the fence.

I'm not going to argue with you because your pushing an agenda and hey we get it. I mean up until two weeks ago we lived in a free country so part of that is freedom of speech. Your pushing a socialist idealism and much like your party are pushing this one to create fear and two your parties blind hatred to the president

This game is getting out of hand. And it's time for this country to move on and get back to life as we once knew it. In 2018 60-70K died of the flue and we had a vaccine at that time. We didn't shut the country down! It's my belief that while the left couldn't impeach trump they decided to get on board with this virus and create fear and doom for everyone to sabotage the worlds best economy in order to create political unrest against the president. Look no further than them criticizing him for travel bans in January and February and now saying he didn't do enough. Regardless of your political leanings he has done a good job and once again those dems look like they have taken the L.
Outside of NY/NJ the national death toll is around 10-15K. Add in the "numbers " from NY/NJ (Dem govs) we get to the 28K. And now that we know that the numbers are inflated we should not be as afraid of this virus as the left wants us to be

In closing stop with your fear of this. Be cautious and smart but let's not give up the rights we have and our ancestors fought for.

You are dangerously ignorant. You've been presented with statistics and call them fake news. (Not just me. The fact that you are literally arguing with a guy who just posts numbers shows the issue here.) You are the problem.

You don't understand that the hospitals would have been overrun w/o social distancing. Then you have people unable to get any care. You saw the doctor prescribe something, it work, and now have called the doctor an idiot because the prescription worked. You're an idiot and you make everyone on the "your side" despise you as you make them look dumber by association. Post less.

[Dawgfan77]

You are dangerously ignorant. You've been presented with statistics and call them fake news. (Not just me. The fact that you are literally arguing with a guy who just posts numbers shows the issue here.) You are the problem.

You don't understand that the hospitals would have been overrun w/o social distancing. Then you have people unable to get any care. You saw the doctor prescribe something, it work, and now have called the doctor an idiot because the prescription worked. You're an idiot and you make everyone on the "your side" despise you as you make them look dumber by association. Post less.

Your post just now confirmed everything I thought about your leanings. I along with many others presented facts as well examples that you have taken and pushed an agenda that truthfully has nothing to with a virus it's all political to you
You can insult me all you want I have thick skin and really don't take it personal. What I did is point out where your arguments are truthfully coming from and what is driving you to post here. Instead of a rebuttal you start with deflecting by calling me ignorant. That's cool don't care what you think. I'd prefer to look at the glass half full not half empty

Hope you stay safe comrade!!

[dantheman4248]

Your post just now confirmed everything I thought about your leanings. I along with many others presented facts as well examples that you have taken and pushed an agenda that truthfully has nothing to with a virus it's all political to you
You can insult me all you want I have thick skin and really don't take it personal. What I did is point out where your arguments are truthfully coming from and what is driving you to post here. Instead of a rebuttal you start with deflecting by calling me ignorant. That's cool don't care what you think. I'd prefer to look at the glass half full not half empty

Hope you stay safe comrade!!

That was the post that confirmed it for you? Not any of the others where I spelled out my leanings to you? It took you this long?

I hope you read that post I made to 44 and to spite me, do the opposite of what I said. Don't vote. Don't inform others. You ain't got a clue. Again if you seriously think there's some conspiracy to inflate the death numbers and that it's the dem's fault, you are part of the problem.

[SheltonChoked]

WRONG

Cite to prove them wrong.

Or shut the **** up.

[Matt3467]

Pray tell, why are people dying so much more than normal then. Explain the huge spike in NY if not for Corona if the death count is being inflated. How you can look at those stats, work in healthcare and still be forcibly ignorant are a complete and total disgrace.

And the fact of the matter that you puppet the stance about how could the projections be so high until we did what the doctor ordered. Sounds like the patient who stops taking the antibiotic because they got better and thinks the doctor is stupid for having prescribed it. If you're really an RN you should see the similarity in your beliefs and hopefully do some self reflection.


Is it hard to have a disagreement with someone while being civil? Every post where you've responded to me has been nasty and full of digs. If you don't agree with my stance then that's fine but no need for all the extra stuff you throw in.

[SheltonChoked]

Where are those numbers available at? I'd like to see monthly breaks downs by cause if possible

https://www.health.ny.gov/statistics/vital_statistics/vs_reports_tables_list.htm

[FISHDAWG]

Take the L and move on

People die everyday and the fact NY hospitals are coding those as covid and not testing is fraudulent and it's adding fear to those on the fence.

I'm not going to argue with you because your pushing an agenda and hey we get it. I mean up until two weeks ago we lived in a free country so part of that is freedom of speech. Your pushing a socialist idealism and much like your party are pushing this one to create fear and two your parties blind hatred to the president

This game is getting out of hand. And it's time for this country to move on and get back to life as we once knew it. In 2018 60-70K died of the flue and we had a vaccine at that time. We didn't shut the country down! It's my belief that while the left couldn't impeach trump they decided to get on board with this virus and create fear and doom for everyone to sabotage the worlds best economy in order to create political unrest against the president. Look no further than them criticizing him for travel bans in January and February and now saying he didn't do enough. Regardless of your political leanings he has done a good job and once again those dems look like they have taken the L.
Outside of NY/NJ the national death toll is around 10-15K. Add in the "numbers " from NY/NJ (Dem govs) we get to the 28K. And now that we know that the numbers are inflated we should not be as afraid of this virus as the left wants us to be

In closing stop with your fear of this. Be cautious and smart but let's not give up the rights we have and our ancestors fought for.

it also attracts Federal Money ... and it is NYC - that alone is enough for me to question a lot of the reports

[Cloak]

The only two people I know that have been tested (in different states), neither have gotten results back. It's been about a month since both were tested.

[Johnson85]

The company is $50 million in debt apparently. Has a litany of creditors. Follow the money and I wonder who has ties to a few of those creditors.

How a bankrupt company got a sweetheart deal from Mr. The Art of the Deal when he was able to negotiate the same product from a much bigger and more powerful entity for 1/7 of the price just raises too many eyebrows.

First, you are putting too much emphasis on the parent company being bankrupt. The whole point of bankruptcy is to minimize disruption from solvency issues.

Second, why do you think he could have gotten those masks from 3M at that price? That was the price before the crisis. Even non-volume buyers could get those masks for $.50 a mask before the crisis, and again, they were getting quoted $5 a mask after that, often times even with pretty significant minimum orders. Maybe 3M could have delivered 10M masks to the feds by the end of April, but that's not a deal available elsewhere and I don't see a reaosn to just assume it was available to the feds b/c they are the feds.

[Gutter Cobreh]

Is it hard to have a disagreement with someone while being civil? Every post where you've responded to me has been nasty and full of digs. If you don't agree with my stance then that's fine but no need for all the extra stuff you throw in.

As I've posted earlier, he's either trolling or the wounds of his boy Bernie not getting the nomination for a second time are too deep....

He's the only person here who takes their stance to a personal level, yet at the same time wants others to "debate" the issue. At the end of the day, it isn't worth it to even engage.

[dantheman4248]

Is it hard to have a disagreement with someone while being civil? Every post where you've responded to me has been nasty and full of digs. If you don't agree with my stance then that's fine but no need for all the extra stuff you throw in.

Where was I uncivil there? You're a snowflake if you take that as incivility. There were no digs there. Nothing more than surface level. If you can look at unbiased statistics and still believe the opposite, then you are willfully ignorant. If you continue to broadcast your ignorance, you are a disgrace. That's not being uncivil. That's telling you a fact. And if you take a fact as something that offends you, then you are a snowflake. Plain and simple.

[dantheman4248]

First, you are putting too much emphasis on the parent company being bankrupt. The whole point of bankruptcy is to minimize disruption from solvency issues.

Second, why do you think he could have gotten those masks from 3M at that price? That was the price before the crisis. Even non-volume buyers could get those masks for $.50 a mask before the crisis, and again, they were getting quoted $5 a mask after that, often times even with pretty significant minimum orders. Maybe 3M could have delivered 10M masks to the feds by the end of April, but that's not a deal available elsewhere and I don't see a reaosn to just assume it was available to the feds b/c they are the feds.

Did you look into the actually company itself. Panthera, which describes itself as a tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies, has no record of producing medical supplies or equipment. http://pantheraworldwide.com/

3M is attacking price-gougers as well. They are not gouging the fed here. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-17/mask-maker-3m-joins-states-in-fight-against-virus-price-gouging

3M is delivering 55 Mil masks / month to the fed.

Take a step back and look at the facts. The fed is paying a company that has no history of distributing/manufacturing medical equipment and no employees 7X what they are paying 3M. They are paying this company $55 million. The parent company is $50 million in debt. The only unknown in that is who are the creditors. That's how this scheme works. They take this bill, pay the creditors, then say they are delivering on the deal. Then there is some delay. Then a shipping delay. Then another. Eventually poof everything is gone. News cycle has already moved on to the next major coverup. Money funneled directly into someone's pocket from the government and the taxpayers are on the hook.

They are supposed to have the masks delivered by April 23rd. It's amazing to think a company with no experience in this realm can have the proper quality of these masks ensured and produced in such a staggeringly short time. Everything about that smells rotten.

[Dawgfan77]

Cite to prove them wrong.

Or shut the **** up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/n...0uofkK

[Extendedcab]

Did you look into the actually company itself. Panthera, which describes itself as a tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies, has no record of producing medical supplies or equipment. http://pantheraworldwide.com/

3M is attacking price-gougers as well. They are not gouging the fed here. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-17/mask-maker-3m-joins-states-in-fight-against-virus-price-gouging

3M is delivering 55 Mil masks / month to the fed.

Take a step back and look at the facts. The fed is paying a company that has no history of distributing/manufacturing medical equipment and no employees 7X what they are paying 3M. They are paying this company $55 million. The parent company is $50 million in debt. The only unknown in that is who are the creditors. That's how this scheme works. They take this bill, pay the creditors, then say they are delivering on the deal. Then there is some delay. Then a shipping delay. Then another. Eventually poof everything is gone. News cycle has already moved on to the next major coverup. Money funneled directly into someone's pocket from the government and the taxpayers are on the hook.

They are supposed to have the masks delivered by April 23rd. It's amazing to think a company with no experience in this realm can have the proper quality of these masks ensured and produced in such a staggeringly short time. Everything about that smells rotten.

You apparently do not know history as back in WWII, another national crisis, manufacturers were making war related products that were totally outside their manufacturing expertise as well. In times of emergency, extreme measure have to be taken and companies are asked to do other things in order to help the nation and its people.

Get a grip on reality!! Please move to Russia, be happy, because you obviously are not happy living in the US. You gripe about everything, good and bad alike!!! Fulfill your dream of living in a communistic society and please move!

[dawgday166]

Agree with this statement wholeheartedly. Where we differ is on what those things are. I'm not for true communism (and I think this keeps getting puppeted because early in the thread I made a point to show extendedcab why imposing his religious beliefs are in bad faith on the government. He doesn't want to follow his religion if it doesn't serve him.

As for education, last I checked it's free public education up to 18... no? When we get into college institutions that's where we keep seeing the dollar amount go higher and higher. And the quality going down is a matter of perspective. For the top, quality sure goes down, but for the bottom we create a safety net and bring that quality up. It's kind of a ****ed up proposition really. How low are we willing to let our worst fall to allow our highest reach their heights? The answer to that is the root of our difference of opinion.

On education I meant college/university education. As for letting "our worst" fall ... a lot of that is up to them. Grown folks gotta take some responsibility. Now you can make some argument to their environments growing up ... but we do help out a lot of folks with various subsistence programs. But I know quite a few others that take advantage of those just cause they don't wanna work.

[Johnson85]

Did you look into the actually company itself. Panthera, which describes itself as a tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies, has no record of producing medical supplies or equipment. http://pantheraworldwide.com/

3M is attacking price-gougers as well. They are not gouging the fed here. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-17/mask-maker-3m-joins-states-in-fight-against-virus-price-gouging

3M is delivering 55 Mil masks / month to the fed.

Take a step back and look at the facts. The fed is paying a company that has no history of distributing/manufacturing medical equipment and no employees 7X what they are paying 3M. They are paying this company $55 million. The parent company is $50 million in debt. The only unknown in that is who are the creditors. That's how this scheme works. They take this bill, pay the creditors, then say they are delivering on the deal. Then there is some delay. Then a shipping delay. Then another. Eventually poof everything is gone. News cycle has already moved on to the next major coverup. Money funneled directly into someone's pocket from the government and the taxpayers are on the hook.

They are supposed to have the masks delivered by April 23rd. It's amazing to think a company with no experience in this realm can have the proper quality of these masks ensured and produced in such a staggeringly short time. Everything about that smells rotten.

Yes, it smells rotten, but it's likely because somebody is influence peddling and making a cut off masks in the market place, not because Panthera is trying to manufacturer masks (or planning on not deliverying). It's sketchy and normal corruption with federal contracts, likely nothing to do with Trump. It's unfortunately standard operating procedure for a lot of these federal contracts, where who you know and your knowledge in navigating the process is more important than actual subject matter expertise or performance ability. It's the same reason the Obamacare rollout was such a cluster 17. THey had a very complicated project, put themselves behind the eightball by assuming the states were going to do it, and really needed to hire the best contractor available. Of course they didn't do that but instead chose to enrich people that were politically connected. SOP.

[dantheman4248]

You apparently do not know history as back in WWII, another national crisis, manufacturers were making war related products that were totally outside their manufacturing expertise as well. In times of emergency, extreme measure have to be taken and companies are asked to do other things in order to help the nation and its people.

Get a grip on reality!! Please move to Russia, be happy, because you obviously are not happy living in the US. You gripe about everything, good and bad alike!!! Fulfill your dream of living in a communistic society and please move!

I bolded a word in your reply.

"tactical training company for the US military and other government agencies"

I don't know why you're dying on this hill but damn. This is not a manufacturing company or anything close.

Apparently because you don't agree with my politics that makes everything I say wrong.

[dantheman4248]

On education I meant college/university education. As for letting "our worst" fall ... a lot of that is up to them. Grown folks gotta take some responsibility. Now you can make some argument to their environments growing up ... but we do help out a lot of folks with various subsistence programs. But I know quite a few others that take advantage of those just cause they don't wanna work.

Gotcha. It's not like what is happening with colleges now is that great. Something needs to be shaken up, otherwise the entire middle class will be in college debt just to get a job in 20 years. It's a rapidly growing issue and push is going to meet shove eventually.

As for the laziness of others, that's a fundamental difference of opinion. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. But I also think that we have evolved so much as a society that we should not need people working just for the sake of working. Automation is going to soon make many jobs obsolete and with that many low-income Americans will be out of a job. With an ever increasing population this will hit a point too imo and we as a society need to be prepared for it.

[dantheman4248]

Yes, it smells rotten, but it's likely because somebody is influence peddling and making a cut off masks in the market place, not because Panthera is trying to manufacturer masks (or planning on not deliverying). It's sketchy and normal corruption with federal contracts, likely nothing to do with Trump. It's unfortunately standard operating procedure for a lot of these federal contracts, where who you know and your knowledge in navigating the process is more important than actual subject matter expertise or performance ability. It's the same reason the Obamacare rollout was such a cluster 17. THey had a very complicated project, put themselves behind the eightball by assuming the states were going to do it, and really needed to hire the best contractor available. Of course they didn't do that but instead chose to enrich people that were politically connected. SOP.

Agreed that it may not be Trump. But someone here is definitely making some money off this move. This is why I called for oversight, ie checks and balances. If this can be gotten away with over $55 mil... it's a scary though to think of something ~ 40,000X that pot having minimal oversight.

Not going to argue with you on how corrupt the Obama admin was. That's obvious to anyone with a brain on either side of the aisle (as it is for the past few regimes since at least JFK.) Trump, in a way, was a beacon of hope that the people can push behind a non-establishment type to not continue that corruption.

[Commercecomet24]

Here's some interesting reading for y'all: This was sent to my by a friend who's head of Oncology at the UPMC Hillman Cancer Center in Pittsburgh and her statement to me about the report. Also talked to my friend at UAB infectious disease center and he concurred:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1

Her Statement to me:

So... 3% of people in Santa Clara County (CA) have been infected and recovered. Which is 50-plus times the estimate of confirmed active cases. More evidence Covid 19 is far more widespread and thus less dangerous than expected.

This is awesome news.

ETA This type of testing is starting to be done all over the country with similar results. UAB just did theirs and I know Wake Baptist just did one and will be getting results soon.

[dantheman4248]

Here's some interesting reading for y'all: This was sent to my by a friend who's head of Oncology at the UPMC Hillman Cancer Center in Pittsburgh and her statement to me about the report. Also talked to my friend at UAB infectious disease center and he concurred:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1

Her Statement to me:

So... 3% of people in Santa Clara County (CA) have been infected and recovered. Which is 50-plus times the estimate of confirmed active cases. More evidence Covid 19 is far more widespread and thus less dangerous than expected.

This is awesome news.

ETA This type of testing is starting to be done all over the country with similar results. UAB just did theirs and I know Wake Baptist just did one and will be getting results soon.

Getting these antibody tests out widespread for everyone would do wonders for accelerating the reopening of the economy as it allows us to isolate those who do have it and haven't had it yet. I hope that's not too small of a sample size and that it can be extrapolated that greatly. That would be awesome going forward.

[Commercecomet24]

Getting these antibody tests out widespread for everyone would do wonders for accelerating the reopening of the economy as it allows us to isolate those who do have it and haven't had it yet. I hope that's not too small of a sample size and that it can be extrapolated that greatly. That would be awesome going forward.

I don't agree with everything you say but i definitely agree that this is a huge step to getting things going in the right direction. I'm reaching out to some more folks I know to see what their doing with this and if similar results are being had. It is a reason for hope.

[Homedawg]

Getting these antibody tests out widespread for everyone would do wonders for accelerating the reopening of the economy as it allows us to isolate those who do have it and haven't had it yet. I hope that's not too small of a sample size and that it can be extrapolated that greatly. That would be awesome going forward.

But you can't isolate everyone who "hasn't had it"... isolate those most vulnerable and in 2 weeks move on. You won't ever know who all had it or didn't. This thing isn't going away. And like the flu, some people just don't get it. With our wo the vaccine. Just like on the Navy ship where only 12.5 % of the people had it. And 60% of those were asymptomatic

[confucius say]

Why do I keep hearing that the key to reopening the country is widespread testing? Once you show sufficient symptoms to cause you to go get tested, wouldn't you 1) know to self isolate the same way as if you got a positive test result, and 2) have already infected people?

Seems to me the key to reopening would be the antibody test.

[Cooterpoot]

The key to reopening is to say 17 this BS, require masks and move the 17 on.

[Jack Lambert]

I don't agree with everything you say but i definitely agree that this is a huge step to getting things going in the right direction. I'm reaching out to some more folks I know to see what their doing with this and if similar results are being had. It is a reason for hope.

I heard that a lot of businesses across the country had order them. I swear I had it. Seven weeks ago I got sick. I mean it is the worse I have ever felt in my life. My temp got to 103.6 degrees a few times. For about six days it never got below 100 degrees. I have never felt like that before. I went to the doctor and i tested negative for the flu. I had every symptom out there for it.

[defiantdog]

I heard that a lot of businesses across the country had order them. I swear I had it. Seven weeks ago I got sick. I mean it is the worse I have ever felt in my life. My temp got to 103.6 degrees a few times. For about six days it never got below 100 degrees. I have never felt like that before. I went to the doctor and i tested negative for the flu. I had every symptom out there for it.
How long did it last for you?

[Commercecomet24]

I heard that a lot of businesses across the country had order them. I swear I had it. Seven weeks ago I got sick. I mean it is the worse I have ever felt in my life. My temp got to 103.6 degrees a few times. For about six days it never got below 100 degrees. I have never felt like that before. I went to the doctor and i tested negative for the flu. I had every symptom out there for it.

Lot of research going into this now and findings will be similar to the Stanford findings, UAB and others that a large amount of people have had it and recovered which will show its much more widespread and much less lethal and severe than what's been thought

[Cooterpoot]

Getting these antibody tests out widespread for everyone would do wonders for accelerating the reopening of the economy as it allows us to isolate those who do have it and haven't had it yet. I hope that's not too small of a sample size and that it can be extrapolated that greatly. That would be awesome going forward.

The antibody tests are very inaccurate. That's the problem right now. China is using them with no regard to their inaccuracies. They're giving a lot of false negatives and positives.

[defiantdog]

Lot of research going into this now and findings will be similar to the Stanford findings, UAB and others that a large amount of people have had it and recovered which will show its much more widespread and much less lethal and severe than what's been thought
UAB is turning hundreds of people down a week for testing so they don't really know accurate recovery numbers.

[Commercecomet24]

UAB is turning hundreds of people down a week for testing so they don't really know accurate recovery numbers.

I'm not talking about the hospital itself I'm referring to the study that the infectious disease team is doing similar to the one in the Stanford study. They're working with a small control group right now on this.

[hacker]

Let's assume this Santa Clara testing is true and 2.5% - 4% of the population has had the virus. (I'm skeptical, but that's another story.)

We need about 60% of the population infected for herd immunity.

That is a range of 15 - 24 times more cases than we have now to reach herd immunity.

Assuming 2.5% - 4% infected and our current 38000 deaths, if we were to reach 60%, that would be 570,000 - 912,000 deaths.

That's shocking to me. Did I do the math wrong? Someone check it.

I really don't think we should be in a rush to try to obtain herd immunity.

[Jack Lambert]

How long did it last for you?

I missed 8 days of work. The last two days I had no fever but I was just too tired to go to work. I woke up on a Saturday feeling real bad and it was the Wednesday after the next Wednesday that I went back to work.

[Todd4State]

Let's assume this Santa Clara testing is true and 2.5% - 4% of the population has had the virus. (I'm skeptical, but that's another story.)

We need about 60% of the population infected for herd immunity.

That is a range of 15 - 24 times more cases than we have now to reach herd immunity.

Assuming 2.5% - 4% infected and our current 38000 deaths, if we were to reach 60%, that would be 570,000 - 912,000 deaths.

That's shocking to me. Did I do the math wrong? Someone check it.

I really don't think we should be in a rush to try to obtain herd immunity.

The problem with the math is this isn't as lethal as it was once feared to be.

[TUSK]

Gotcha. It's not like what is happening with colleges now is that great. Something needs to be shaken up, otherwise the entire middle class will be in college debt just to get a job in 20 years. It's a rapidly growing issue and push is going to meet shove eventually.

As for the laziness of others, that's a fundamental difference of opinion. Believe me, I understand the sentiment. But I also think that we have evolved so much as a society that we should not need people working just for the sake of working. Automation is going to soon make many jobs obsolete and with that many low-income Americans will be out of a job. With an ever increasing population this will hit a point too imo and we as a society need to be prepared for it.

there's a lot of "right" in this post... However, I believe in lieu of supporting those that don't or can't work, we oughta just cull em from the herd....

[Todd4State]

there's a lot of "right" in this post... However, I believe in lieu of supporting those that don't or can't work, we oughta just cull em from the herd....

Dare I say- process them?**

[TUSK]

Dare I say- process them?**

That was as strong as a garlic milkshake.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Todd4State again.

[Dawgfan77]

The problem with the math is this isn't as lethal as it was once feared to be.

100% agree with you again! My caveat is this. If you have any underlying health issues then you should take precautions. If you are 65 and above you should take precautions. Thst said if you are healthy the. Yes by all means do what's best for you and your family. It's been my belief all along this has been an overreaction but i also unfortunately understand that some people were and still are fearful
Time to move forward with America and our economy may 1

[hacker]

The problem with the math is this isn't as lethal as it was once feared to be.

Uhh. You realize that I am using current death numbers right?

According to the study, 2.5% - 4% of us have the virus. According to real life, it's killed 38000 people.

So let's simplify everything and say 25% - 40% get the virus.

380,000 deaths

Pretty ****ing lethal.

And this is what you all are advocating for.

[Dawgfan77]

Uhh. You realize that I am using current death numbers right?

According to the study, 2.5% - 4% of us have the virus. According to real life, it's killed 38000 people.

So let's simplify everything and say 25% - 40% get the virus.

380,000 deaths

Pretty ****ing lethal.

I would like to see that death rate with those that are older and/or have underlying health issues. Not total hospitalizations, if you throw that number out then what's is the discharged numbers. Just looking for average age of death and those that had underlying health issues. From my understanding if your healthy it sucks but it's not life threatening. The CDC says it's recovery in 80% of infected. To me that's pretty damn good odds. Again Id take precautions if your older and have health issues. It seems to prey on those folks.

[hacker]

I would like to see that death rate with those that are older and/or have underlying health issues. Not total hospitalizations, if you throw that number out then what's is the discharged numbers. Just looking for average age of death and those that had underlying health issues. From my understanding if your healthy it sucks but it's not life threatening. The CDC says it's recovery in 80% of infected. To me that's pretty damn good odds. Again Id take precautions if your older and have health issues. It seems to prey on those folks.

1. We've known that it's much worse for older / underlying conditions. Two of the big underlying conditions are obesity and high blood pressure, a big issue in the south.
2. You realize 80% recovery rate means the other 20% died, right? Not sure quoting that number helps your argument.

[Dawgfan77]

1. We've known that it's much worse for older / underlying conditions. Two of the big underlying conditions are obesity and high blood pressure, a big issue in the south.
2. You realize 80% recovery rate means the other 20% died, right? Not sure quoting that number helps your argument.

Don't want to debate you again. All I'm saying is when people bring positive news here you throw some numbers out there that paint a very very grim picture. I'm sure some on here will agree with that.
Facts are this is not as lethal as it was once thought to be. And the more research that goes into the virus the more information that comes out that it's not as bad as once thought. Unless you have underlying health issues.
Again. I do appreciate your numbers and charts but overall this thing has been blown way out of proportion. We shut down an economic boom for a virus.

[msstate7]

1. We've known that it's much worse for older / underlying conditions. Two of the big underlying conditions are obesity and high blood pressure, a big issue in the south.
2. You realize 80% recovery rate means the other 20% died, right? Not sure quoting that number helps your argument.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/antibody-test-results-from-california-suggest-covid-death-rate-significantly-lower-than-reported

https://www.yahoo.com/news/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

Your denominator is waaay off

[chef dixon]

Uhh. You realize that I am using current death numbers right?

According to the study, 2.5% - 4% of us have the virus. According to real life, it's killed 38000 people.

So let's simplify everything and say 25% - 40% get the virus.

380,000 deaths

Pretty ****ing lethal.

And this is what you all are advocating for.

You're never going to convince a guy sitting in rural Mississippi that this is bad or any different than the flu if they already have their mind made up. It doesn't take much education to look at a place like NYC and realize what the virus is capable of in both lethality and it's ability to spread. The numbers speak for themselves. You can be thankful you live in a place that is unlikely to have that type of outbreak yet still respect it for what it is.

[hacker]

It's been a trip watching the evolution of responses on this thread:

- "lol it's just China, something like that could never happen here"
- "it's just a media hoax"
- "it's just the flu"
- "oh well Italy's population is old and they're all smokers and every time they have family dinner they kiss and probably lay on top of each other. Crazy Italians!"
- "nothing to worry about, we won't have 10,000 cases by the summer"
- "it was just a nursing home in Seattle"

[US starts to lead the world in cases and deaths]
- "China lied and covered everything up! It's their fault!" (see first point above for irony)
- "WHO lied, we definitely would've been fine if it wasn't for them"
- "the numbers are inflated" (even though there are a shitload more people dying in general than the past 20 years)

[cases skyrocket to 30k per day, 2.5k deaths per day, but level off]
- "see it wasn't that bad! reopen america!"

[38000 dead in a month]
- "well it's actually not that lethal"


It's early and I haven't had my coffee but I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

[hacker]

You're never going to convince a guy sitting in rural Mississippi that this is bad or any different than the flu if they already have their mind made up. It doesn't take much education to look at a place like NYC and realize what the virus is capable of in both lethality and it's ability to spread. The numbers speak for themselves. You can be thankful you live in a place that is unlikely to have that type of outbreak yet still respect it for what it is.

Probably the truest post in the thread

[hacker]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/antibody-test-results-from-california-suggest-covid-death-rate-significantly-lower-than-reported

https://www.yahoo.com/news/possible-clue-coronavirus-transmission-201204720.html

Your denominator is waaay off

Denominator for what? If he's talking about closed cases, you just subtract the recovery rate from 100

(I have no idea where he got his number from)

[msstate7]

You're never going to convince a guy sitting in rural Mississippi that this is bad or any different than the flu if they already have their mind made up. It doesn't take much education to look at a place like NYC and realize what the virus is capable of in both lethality and it's ability to spread. The numbers speak for themselves. You can be thankful you live in a place that is unlikely to have that type of outbreak yet still respect it for what it is.

NY is being hit hard... there's no doubt about that. Their death rate is inflated though. I won't even question whether the 3700 added deaths are legit. They added 3700 to the numerator, but added nothing to the denominator. Do you think if 3700 people died of covid19 without being tested that there were/are only 3700 untested, unconfirmed out there?

[msstate7]

Denominator for what? If he's talking about closed cases, you just subtract the recovery rate from 100

Bc the closed cases are only for those that were tested. There's a boatload that weren't tested bc they never got sick.

[confucius say]

Probably the truest post in the thread

He is right, MS makeup makes it unlikely that we will ever have a NY type breakout. No other state in America has had anything close to NY. Which is exactly why it should be taken on a state to state basis.

More importantly, Geographical makeup also makes any herd immunity test like the Stanford one localized. You have to look at that area's infection rate and death rate.

[chef dixon]

NY is being hit hard... there's no doubt about that. Their death rate is inflated though. I won't even question whether the 3700 added deaths are legit. They added 3700 to the numerator, but added nothing to the denominator. Do you think if 3700 people died of covid19 without being tested that there were/are only 3700 untested, unconfirmed out there?

Even if they added 3700 that were completely inappropriate, they were clearly getting hammered before that. Folks keep looking for a death rate in a constantly evolving situation with so many variables. You're not going to get that accurately but other metrics can help. The overall deaths in NY the last month v the every month the last 20 years is a super simple graph to interpret and to me is very telling.

[hacker]

Bc the closed cases are only for those that were tested. There's a boatload that weren't tested bc they never got sick.

How does that make my number wrong in the context of my post? Wouldn't it make his number wrong?

I was simply pointing out that an 80% recovery rate isn't something to be proud of because it means the other 20% died. If he said 85% recovered, I would've said 15% died.

[chef dixon]

He is right, MS makeup makes it unlikely that we will ever have a NY type breakout. No other state in America has had anything close to NY. Which is exactly why it should be taken on a state to state basis.

More importantly, Geographical makeup also makes any herd immunity test like the Stanford one localized. You have to look at that area's infection rate and death rate.

I also agree with that. Need to start opening parts slowly. There is going to be spike when we reopen even if it's 3 months from now without a vaccine. A reliable antibody test could also make it easier to do safer so hopefully that can be established.

[Dawgfan77]

I also agree with that. Need to start opening parts slowly. There is going to be spike when we reopen even if it's 3 months from now without a vaccine. A reliable antibody test could also make it easier to do safer so hopefully that can be established.
Could be a spike in cases but the advancement in treatment will help people recover quicker. Those that have a positive test SIP and go through treatment

[confucius say]

NY is being hit hard... there's no doubt about that. Their death rate is inflated though. I won't even question whether the 3700 added deaths are legit. They added 3700 to the numerator, but added nothing to the denominator. Do you think if 3700 people died of covid19 without being tested that there were/are only 3700 untested, unconfirmed out there?

If you are going to use the Santa Clara test and apply it across the country like Hacker did above to come up with 380k deaths, that study suggests that almost all of NY has come into contact with the virus (50 to 80 times the number of confirmed cases). That would make NY death rate minuscule.

[hacker]

NY is being hit hard... there's no doubt about that. Their death rate is inflated though. I won't even question whether the 3700 added deaths are legit. They added 3700 to the numerator, but added nothing to the denominator. Do you think if 3700 people died of covid19 without being tested that there were/are only 3700 untested, unconfirmed out there?

The medical examiners actually looked at the patients and put covid on those 3700 death certificates. Likely most of them died in their home before getting a test.

I'm sure it's not 100% accurate, but you wanna know how they come up with our official flu death stats?

"CDC uses a mathematical model to estimate the numbers of influenza illnesses, medical visits, hospitalizations, and deaths in the United States"

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

I would think it's at LEAST as accurate as flu deaths.

[msstate7]

The medical examiners actually looked at the patients and put covid on those 3700 death certificates. Likely most of them died in their home before getting a test.

I'm sure it's not 100% accurate, but you wanna know how they come up with our official flu death stats?

"CDC uses a mathematical model to estimate the numbers of influenza illnesses, medical visits, hospitalizations, and deaths in the United States"

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

I would think it's at LEAST as accurate as flu deaths.

I literally said I'm not even questioning whether the deaths are legit. I just said the death rate would be inflated by just adding to the numerator with unconfirmed.

[chef dixon]

Could be a spike in cases but the advancement in treatment will help people recover quicker. Those that have a positive test SIP and go through treatment

No doubt. Test and shelter in place if positive is a must. I am a little less optimistic about a solid, effective treatment coming out though. Its not going to be hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin. People are already getting that in mass and a significant number of people are still getting hospitalized and dying. If you look at the history of viral respiratory illnesses in general, our treatments have been poor to mediocre at best. I don't see it changing with COVID-19, but would love to be wrong about that. Vaccine or herd immunity (which we are a good ways off from most likely) I think is where we are headed.

[msstate7]

If you are going to use the Santa Clara test and apply it across the country like Hacker did above to come up with 380k deaths, that study suggests that almost all of NY has come into contact with the virus (50 to 80 times the number of confirmed cases). That would make NY death rate minuscule.

If you go with the low end (50x) for the whole country, here's your new numbers...

35.5 million cases
New death rate: .0011

[hacker]

I literally said I'm not even questioning whether the deaths are legit. I just said the death rate would be inflated by just adding to the numerator with unconfirmed.

Ah, misunderstood your post.

From worldometers:

"Finally, since every probable death necessarily implies a probable case, logic mandates that the adjustment be made to both deaths and cases, and not only to deaths. We have now adjusted April 14, April 15, and current data for New York State and the United States accordingly."

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/

[msstate7]

Ah, misunderstood your post.

From worldometers:

"Finally, since every probable death necessarily implies a probable case, logic mandates that the adjustment be made to both deaths and cases, and not only to deaths. We have now adjusted April 14, April 15, and current data for New York State and the United States accordingly."

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/us-data/

Was it 1 case to 1 death? It should be more if so. I'm walking out door so didn't have time to read all

[Bass Chaser]

As we begin to do antibody testing, if someone is positive wouldn't that increase the number of cases?

[chef dixon]

As we begin to do antibody testing, if someone is positive wouldn't that increase the number of cases?

Would most likely indicate a past case that has resolved, so yes. From what I can tell we haven't nailed down the life cycle of this thing and how long the actual virus is active and shedding. If that time period is actually quite long, let's say 2 weeks or more, then it's possible the antibody test could be positive in a still active case.

[dantheman4248]

Why do I keep hearing that the key to reopening the country is widespread testing? Once you show sufficient symptoms to cause you to go get tested, wouldn't you 1) know to self isolate the same way as if you got a positive test result, and 2) have already infected people?

Seems to me the key to reopening would be the antibody test.


Getting these antibody tests out widespread for everyone would do wonders for accelerating the reopening of the economy.


The problem with the math is this isn't as lethal as it was once feared to be.

My most preliminary estimate was 500k dead and people said I was talking crazy in this very thread. Pretty sure you were one who questioned my self-proclaimed super-conservative estimate of 500k to be too lethal because of the death rate being too high. 2% vs. 1% (which was still 250k)



I don't agree with everything you say but i definitely agree that this is a huge step to getting things going in the right direction. I'm reaching out to some more folks I know to see what their doing with this and if similar results are being had. It is a reason for hope.

If only more people could realize that life is not black and white and that just because someone is on the opposite end of the political spectrum doesn't mean they can have good points, debates and discourse in this country would be infinitely better.


But you can't isolate everyone who "hasn't had it"... isolate those most vulnerable and in 2 weeks move on. You won't ever know who all had it or didn't. This thing isn't going away. And like the flu, some people just don't get it. With our wo the vaccine. Just like on the Navy ship where only 12.5 % of the people had it. And 60% of those were asymptomatic

Apologies, I should have expanded and clarified that sentence. When I said isolate, I meant in terms of knowing who they are and can be preventative for those who would be at severe risk and so they can know going forward and plan accordingly.


The antibody tests are very inaccurate. That's the problem right now. China is using them with no regard to their inaccuracies. They're giving a lot of false negatives and positives.

I was under the assumption that ours were not the same as China's.


there's a lot of "right" in this post... However, I believe in lieu of supporting those that don't or can't work, we oughta just cull em from the herd....

So we both agree that there is a problem; however, we have a difference in opinion on what the.. final solution should be.*** (Todd my joke was better.)


The CDC says it's recovery in 80% of infected. To me that's pretty damn good odds.

59% chance a family of four would lose 1 member or more.
74% chance a person would lose one of their parents/grandparents (given all 6 are alive)
99.6% chance at least 1 member in a group of 25 would die.

These are given that recovery rate and that all members in the sample get the virus. I'm sorry but that's absolutely horrible odds.


You're never going to convince a guy sitting in rural Mississippi that this is bad or any different than the flu if they already have their mind made up. It doesn't take much education to look at a place like NYC and realize what the virus is capable of in both lethality and it's ability to spread. The numbers speak for themselves. You can be thankful you live in a place that is unlikely to have that type of outbreak yet still respect it for what it is.

Speaking as someone living in a somewhat bigger city, this is so apparently a truth. Having lived in both it definitely makes it easier to recognize both sides and see the biases that each creates. "Walk a mile in the other's shoes."


It's been a trip watching the evolution of responses on this thread:

- "lol it's just China, something like that could never happen here"
- "it's just a media hoax"
- "it's just the flu"
- "oh well Italy's population is old and they're all smokers and every time they have family dinner they kiss and probably lay on top of each other. Crazy Italians!"
- "nothing to worry about, we won't have 10,000 cases by the summer"
- "it was just a nursing home in Seattle"

[US starts to lead the world in cases and deaths]
- "China lied and covered everything up! It's their fault!" (see first point above for irony)
- "WHO lied, we definitely would've been fine if it wasn't for them"
- "the numbers are inflated" (even though there are a shitload more people dying in general than the past 20 years)

[cases skyrocket to 30k per day, 2.5k deaths per day, but level off]
- "see it wasn't that bad! reopen america!"

[38000 dead in a month]
- "well it's actually not that lethal"


It's early and I haven't had my coffee but I'm sure I'm forgetting some.

You must spread rep around before giving to hacker again.

[Dawgfan77]

You bring nothin to this board and I guess I don't really Bring that much either
But your post are insufferable.

Truth is there is more positive going on than negative but keep living for the end of the world

Also as if it's relative to anything else

My mom died of a viral infection in 16 as a result of complications from a stroke

My father has underlying health issues

But we don't live in fear

[dantheman4248]

You bring nothin to this board and I guess I don't really Bring that much either
But your post are insufferable.

Truth is there is more positive going on than negative but keep living for the end of the world

Also as if it's relative to anything else

My mom died of a viral infection in 16 as a result of complications from a stroke

My father has underlying health issues

But we don't live in fear

You are the epitome of "this sign can't stop me because I can't read."

"More people are not dying from this than are. Stay positive. Not gonna live in fear."

You're the type to play Russian roulette without flinching. "There's 5 empty slots. Those are good odds."

[Dawgfan77]

You are the epitome of "this sign can't stop me because I can't read."

"More people are not dying from this than are. Stay positive. Not gonna live in fear."

You're the type to play Russian roulette without flinching. "There's 5 empty slots. Those are good odds."

I can read pretty well. But thanks. I'm educated and I travel for a living. And no if I believed everything the left and liberal and socialist like yourself (admitted by the way) posted or reporter then hell yeah i would be in just like you. Scared shitless!
But I read every article I can every day and I keep an eye out or try I should say on each and every treatment that's available

I'm not going to respond anymore to your post.

[defiantdog]

You are the epitome of "this sign can't stop me because I can't read."

"More people are not dying from this than are. Stay positive. Not gonna live in fear."

You're the type to play Russian roulette without flinching. "There's 5 empty slots. Those are good odds."

This virus sucks but it's not that bad man. It's not the damn bubonic plague.

[Jack Lambert]

This virus sucks but it's not that bad man. It's not the damn bubonic plague.

liberal want it to be as bad as possible. They see it as their only way of getting Biden into the white house.

[Commercecomet24]

This virus sucks but it's not that bad man. It's not the damn bubonic plague.

Hear, hear!

[BeardoMSU]

liberal want it to be as bad as possible. They see it as their only way of getting Biden into the white house.

Sigh...no, no they don't.

Are there assholes out in the world? Yes...of course, but the vast majority of people, on both sides of the aisle, want this to be over, with as little loss of life as possible. I love my wife and daughter, but being cooped up with them 24-7 is driving me nuts. Thank God for Xbox....

[Jack Lambert]

Sigh...no, no they don't.

Are there assholes out in the world? Yes...of course, but the vast majority of people, on both sides of the aisle, want this to be over, with as little loss of life as possible. I love my wife and daughter, but being cooped up with them 24-7 is driving me nuts. Thank God for Xbox....

That is where you are wrong. That hate for Trump is powerful.

[Todd4State]

My most preliminary estimate was 500k dead and people said I was talking crazy in this very thread. Pretty sure you were one who questioned my self-proclaimed super-conservative estimate of 500k to be too lethal because of the death rate being too high. 2% vs. 1% (which was still 250k)








Not sure why you're patting yourself on the back here when you were way off.

[BeardoMSU]

That is where you are wrong. That hate for Trump is powerful.

Bullshit.

People can rightfully question and criticize a President for the poor choices (or lack there of) he's made during a major disaster/event, but that doesn't mean they are wishing for the maximum loss of life just to "get him".

[Dawgfan77]

That is where you are wrong. That hate for Trump is powerful.
You are spot on. This shut down is 70-80% due to the trump hate couldn't impeach him
Trump shuts down China travel. Left: He is a vile person
Trump shuts down travel to Europe. He is a vile person
Ventilators?? We have an excess in some states
Trump pushed for stimulus. Dems wanted it shut down
Now pushing for more federal funding for small business.... left voted it down
Opening the country back up
Nope we are against it for 18 months unless your gonna pay us. Look at all the Dems wanting handouts for their states... those states are operating at a deficient
Now left are mad cause we don't have enough test....
It goes on and on
It's the left that's pushing what Dan the commi man wants. Fear fear fear. Don't let trump get re-elected
They have resulted in shutting down the country because of their hate of trump

[BeardoMSU]

You are spot on. This shut down is 70-80% due to the trump hate couldn't impeach him
Trump shuts down China travel. Left: He is a vile person
Trump shuts down travel to Europe. He is a vile person
Ventilators?? We have an excess in some states
Trump pushed for stimulus. Dems wanted it shut down
Now pushing for more federal funding for small business.... left voted it down
Opening the country back up
Nope we are against it for 18 months unless your gonna pay us. Look at all the Dems wanting handouts for their states... those states are operating at a deficient
Now left are mad cause we don't have enough test....
It goes on and on
It's the left that's pushing what Dan the commi man wants. Fear fear fear. Don't let trump get re-elected
They have resulted in shutting down the country because of their hate of trump

Lol, so now it's the "lefts fault" the country is shut down? The "left" and all its mighty Trump hate, influenced Trump and his administration to compel the shutdown of travel, non-essential business, and social distancing for the rest of the country? Do you think about how these words come together to form sentences before you spout them out?

[Dawgfan77]

Lol, so now it's the "lefts fault" the country is shut down? The "left" and all its mighty Trump hate, influenced Trump and his administration to compel the shutdown of travel, non-essential business, and social distancing for the rest of the country? Do you think about how these words come together to form sentences before you spout them out?

Yes to a certain extent I do feel this way. Believe what you want.

We had a influenza outbreak in 17-18. 60-80k died in America but we didn't shut down anything

[confucius say]

Not sure why you're patting yourself on the back here when you were way off.

Yea he lost me. The Wuhan lab-distributed virus has killed 157k last I saw earlier today.

[defiantdog]

Lol, so now it's the "lefts fault" the country is shut down? The "left" and all its mighty Trump hate, influenced Trump and his administration to compel the shutdown of travel, non-essential business, and social distancing for the rest of the country? Do you think about how these words come together to form sentences before you spout them out?
He didn't imply what your saying. The "left" has ridiculed every decision by the president. He never said it was the "lefts" fault. And I take it you aren't a small business owner because you definitely wouldn't be supporting the "left" right now.

[Jack Lambert]

Bullshit.

People can rightfully question and criticize a President for the poor choices (or lack there of) he's made during a major disaster/event, but that doesn't mean they are wishing for the maximum loss of life just to "get him".

I don't think people want other people to die but I do believe they want this to politically hurt Trump as much as possible. I have been going CNN, MSNBC all net works to get what info I can on the virus. Those two channels are nothing but attack and more attack. I have Liberal friends and all they post now is what they heard on those channels. "Never let crisis go to waste.:

[Commercecomet24]

If you go with the low end (50x) for the whole country, here's your new numbers...

35.5 million cases
New death rate: .0011

Right, this is the point that theyre making and the point of these studies. I'm not an expert in this stuff, but the people I'm speaking with are. More and more of these studies are starting to be done. I'll be interested to hear the results of the wake forest Baptist study in the next couple days to see if it matches the others research. That's why the results of these studies are so promising because it shows that that the mortality rate is much lower and the virus is not as lethal and severe as expected. It does give us hope.

[Commercecomet24]

Sigh...no, no they don't.

Are there assholes out in the world? Yes...of course, but the vast majority of people, on both sides of the aisle, want this to be over, with as little loss of life as possible. I love my wife and daughter, but being cooped up with them 24-7 is driving me nuts. Thank God for Xbox....

Is the Xbox for you or them lol!

[BeardoMSU]

He didn't imply what your saying. The "left" has ridiculed every decision by the president. He never said it was the "lefts" fault. And I take it you aren't a small business owner because you definitely wouldn't be supporting the "left" right now.

Well, many of these decisions have warranted ridicule, or at least critical examination, especially when taken into context with the timeline of action. Not only that, but tell me any similar moment in American history, in terms of scope and scale, where the actions of a President aren't magnified to the point of this level of scrutiny. Off hand, I can only really think of the few months post-911; there were a few detractors, but for the most part W had unilateral support in the aftermath of that particular disaster.

Also, perhaps what gaslights this situation the most, is when Trump proposes a reasonable policy or idea (i.e., the re-open the country phases plan), yet he immediately undermines himself and his own administration by going full ****ing retard on Twitter (e.g., LIBERATE!!!).

You can call the reaction to these things "liberal hate", but that is just lazy and sycophantic. In fact, most of the journalists I follow are of the conservative variety, and almost across the board, they ridicule pretty much the exact same things you hear from likes of CNN, MSNBC, etc. This isn't some conspiracy to "get the Prez".

[BeardoMSU]

Is the Xbox for you or them lol!

Lol, it is for me.

I've been playing Division 2 (a Tom Clancy shooter) online with a buddy of mine who lives in Starkville pretty much daily since lock down started.

[hacker]

This is pretty cool. Real time reproductive numbers in each state.

https://rt.live/

[Commercecomet24]

Lol, it is for me.

I've been playing Division 2 (a Tom Clancy shooter) online with a buddy of mine who lives in Starkville pretty much daily since lock down started.

A good diversion! Stay safe!

[BeardoMSU]

A good diversion! Stay safe$

Indeed, and you as well, bud.

I've also got my garden to keep me busy. I built a fence to keep out the rabbits and started a few seeds a couple weeks ago......and today woke up to 4 inches of snow.....in mid April.....so yeah...

[Commercecomet24]

Indeed, and you as well, bud.

I've also got my garden to keep me busy. I built a fence to keep out the rabbits and started a few seeds a couple weeks ago......and today woke up to 4 inches of snow.....in mid April.....so yeah...

Thanks! Oh no, snow ain't good for a garden!

[defiantdog]

This is pretty cool. Real time reproductive numbers in each state.

https://rt.live/
My only issue is that states aren't testing like they were. So the numbers aren't really accurate.

[Dawgfan77]

Well, many of these decisions have warranted ridicule, or at least critical examination, especially when taken into context with the timeline of action. Not only that, but tell me any similar moment in American history, in terms of scope and scale, where the actions of a President aren't magnified to the point of this level of scrutiny. Off hand, I can only really think of the few months post-911; there were a few detractors, but for the most part W had unilateral support in the aftermath of that particular disaster.

Also, perhaps what gaslights this situation the most, is when Trump proposes a reasonable policy or idea (i.e., the re-open the country phases plan), yet he immediately undermines himself and his own administration by going full ****ing retard on Twitter (e.g., LIBERATE!!!).

You can call the reaction to these things "liberal hate", but that is just lazy and sycophantic. In fact, most of the journalists I follow are of the conservative variety, and almost across the board, they ridicule pretty much the exact same things you hear from likes of CNN, MSNBC, etc. This isn't some conspiracy to "get the Prez".

Not trying to flame you but I'd like to know what could he have done differently?

[Jack Lambert]

Right, this is the point that theyre making and the point of these studies. I'm not an expert in this stuff, but the people I'm speaking with are. More and more of these studies are starting to be done. I'll be interested to hear the results of the wake forest Baptist study in the next couple days to see if it matches the others research. That's why the results of these studies are so promising because it shows that that the mortality rate is much lower and the virus is not as lethal and severe as expected. It does give us hope.

How many people have died from the flu in the past four weeKs?

[BeardoMSU]

How many people have died from the flu in the past four weeKs?

Bump...

For you "but the flu!!" peeps...

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/not-like-the-flu-not-like-car-crashes-not-like

[Dawgfan77]

How many people have died from the flu in the past four weeKs?
We don't know cause there coded COVID

Truth hurts

[hacker]

https://media.giphy.com/media/11gC4odpiRKuha/source.gif

[BeardoMSU]

Not trying to flame you but I'd like to know what could he have done differently?

Pretty sure most, if not all, has been covered already in this (now) 112 page thread. I hope you don't want me to synthesize all that, lol?

I can certainly re-cap some of the main issues if you like (and I'll definitely provide sources), but that will take me a bit to put together.

Happy to do it, though I would prefer to wait until I'm not drinking**

[Dawgfan77]

Pretty sure most, if not all, has been covered already in this (now) 112 page thread. I hope you don't want me to synthesize all that, lol?

I can certainly re-cap some of the main issues if you like (and I'll definitely provide sources), but that will take me a bit to put together.

Happy to do it, though I would prefer to wait until I'm not drinking**

No need the fact you have to research tells me enough.

Drinking as well

Have a great weekend

[Noxdog]

No need the fact you have to research tells me enough.

Drinking as well

Have a great weekend


And can safely say I'm more interested in the Severe weather thread. Hey REF come back out of retirement!!


Buncha dick measuring (on both sides) bitches. 112 pages for a back and forth between basically 8 posters?

Tell you how bad it's been. Msstate7 has been relatively calm during all of this. Kudos 7.


Will say I've been entertained and informed. Carry on.

[BeardoMSU]

No need the fact you have to research tells me enough.

Drinking as well

Have a great weekend

Lol, and tells you what exactly?

[msstate7]

Miss band of Choctaw indians' chief, Cyrus Ben tested positive

[msstate7]

And can safely say I'm more interested in the Severe weather thread. Hey REF come back out of retirement!!


Buncha dick measuring (on both sides) bitches. 112 pages for a back and forth between basically 8 posters?

Tell you how bad it's been. Msstate7 has been relatively calm during all of this. Kudos 7.


Will say I've been entertained and informed. Carry on.

Aren't I always calm? Lol

[dawgday166]

And can safely say I'm more interested in the Severe weather thread. Hey REF come back out of retirement!!


Buncha dick measuring (on both sides) bitches. 112 pages for a back and forth between basically 8 posters?

Tell you how bad it's been. Msstate7 has been relatively calm during all of this. Kudos 7.


Will say I've been entertained and informed. Carry on.

Informed?? Really?? What'd ya learn?

[dawgday166]

Aren't I always calm? Lol

You always the calmest one in the eye of the storm. The calmest **

[hacker]

Concerns with that Stanford study of coronavirus prevalence

https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2020/04/19/fatal-flaws-in-stanford-study-of-coronavirus-prevalence/

[hacker]

What's happening in Albany, GA? Anyone know? I've seen a lot of people saying it won't ever be bad around here because we're rural.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV0dNDeXYAIYb7y?format=jpg&name=large

1400 cases, 90 deaths in Dougherty County (Albany)

More deaths than Fulton County

[Gutter Cobreh]

Funerals. Spread like wildfire.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/02/us/albany-georgia-coronavirus/index.html

But I'm sure that couldn't happen in rural MS***

[BrunswickDawg]

Funerals. Spread like wildfire.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/04/02/us/albany-georgia-coronavirus/index.html

But I'm sure that couldn't happen in rural MS***

Yep - rural areas are already the next wave. Cases up significantly yesterday in places like the Dakotas.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/17/rural-america-vulnerable-coronavirus-daschle-abrams-column/2994619001/

[msstate7]

Yep - rural areas are already the next wave. Cases up significantly yesterday in places like the Dakotas.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/04/17/rural-america-vulnerable-coronavirus-daschle-abrams-column/2994619001/

Everyone... well, most everyone is gonna get it, and there's nothing we can do to stop it. Shelter in place isn't to prevent cases but to spread them out. At some point, we gonna have to start up.