THE 2020 MSU Football Recruiting Talk Thread

[timotheus]

Archie had assembled quite a group.

[ShotgunDawg]

Who is Caleb Offered?

Kid from Southhaven just committed to Notre Dame & I have never heard of him. Odd

[msstate7]

Who is Caleb Offered?

Kid from Southhaven just committed to Notre Dame & I have never heard of him. Odd

It is weird. He shows (not sure if real) 3 sec offers and the obvious ND, but no OM and state. ND has a really good class too

[msstate7]

IYOK, I'd be sweating that under 7 now... #4 in

[Ifyouonlyknew]

IYOK, I'd be sweating that under 7 now... #4 in

I should be sweating or are you starting to sweat?

[MetEdDawg]

IYOK, I'd be sweating that under 7 now... #4 in

Yep. Jordan Davis in the boat and that's a big get.

I think 2 of ours already committed get bumps to a 4 star. I think Selmon and Dean are the 2 most likely candidates.

And I could see us getting 3 more 4 stars.

[msstate7]

I should be sweating or are you starting to sweat?

Me. It's looking much better thanks to joe and staff

[KOdawg1]

He was a former Bama signee if that tells you anything about his talent. HUGE get

[ShotgunDawg]

Yep. Jordan Davis in the boat and that's a big get.

I think 2 of ours already committed get bumps to a 4 star. I think Selmon and Dean are the 2 most likely candidates.

And I could see us getting 3 more 4 stars.

If we get 10 4 stars, then that's a great class.

10 4 stars a year gets you close to your overall roster having about half 4/5 stars recruits, which means you can beat pretty much anyone except the 5 star croot hoarders

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Me. It's looking much better thanks to joe and staff

Yea that wasn't just a random # I picked out the sky.

[ShotgunDawg]

Yea that wasn't just a random # I picked out the sky.

Can you rehash your prediction?

We are at 4 4 stars with Heath likely committing in the not so distant future & Dean & Selmon potentially getting bumps.

That gets us to 7 4 stars.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Can you rehash your prediction?

We are at 4 4 stars with Heath likely committing in the not so distant future & Dean & Selmon potentially getting bumps.

That gets us to 7 4 stars.

I said we'd sign between 7-10 4*

[bulldawg28]

Joe Mo can definitely recruit. He's got us heading in the right direction big time. It's nice to have this type of talent coming to Starkville.

[Bothrops]

Cooley is a 4 star talent and hasn't budged in the rankings. I'd say Dean and J. Brown are 4 stars as well.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Yep. Jordan Davis in the boat and that's a big get.

I think 2 of ours already committed get bumps to a 4 star. I think Selmon and Dean are the 2 most likely candidates.

And I could see us getting 3 more 4 stars.

The LB from Horn Lake is pretty good too. So is the other LB from Memphis

[MetEdDawg]

The LB from Horn Lake is pretty good too. So is the other LB from Memphis

Only the Top 5 in MS are 4 stars for 2020. Now I personally think that number will be closer to 9 or 10 when this cycle is done. But to compare, there were 16 4 stars from the 2019 class.

Only 4 of the Top 15 in 2020 are left uncommitted. Obviously we might still do some work there but there isn't much Top end talent left in the state.

These are the kind of years where we have to be able to go out of state and grab 4 stars. So far we've got Marks that's a 4 star. Can Moorhead go get more? That is how we win minimum 8-9 per year long term.

Mullen has the 2014 class that finished 38th. Three total 4 stars, all in state. We missed on the Top 5 in state and Mullen couldn't pull any highly rated players from out of state. If Moorhead can pull a Top 25 class from a weaker in state class this year that will be huge for us.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Only the Top 5 in MS are 4 stars for 2020. Now I personally think that number will be closer to 9 or 10 when this cycle is done. But to compare, there were 16 4 stars from the 2019 class.

Only 4 of the Top 15 in 2020 are left uncommitted. Obviously we might still do some work there but there isn't much Top end talent left in the state.

These are the kind of years where we have to be able to go out of state and grab 4 stars. So far we've got Marks that's a 4 star. Can Moorhead go get more? That is how we win minimum 8-9 per year long term.

Mullen has the 2014 class that finished 38th. Three total 4 stars, all in state. We missed on the Top 5 in state and Mullen couldn't pull any highly rated players from out of state. If Moorhead can pull a Top 25 class from a weaker in state class this year that will be huge for us.

I guess it could be considered weaker compared to a year ago but this isnt a bad year by any stretch. Plenty of good football players in MS. Get out on fridays and watch them. A lot of them arent done justice by the experts

Last year was a hell of a class but this one aint bad. I dont think there will ever be a bad year in this state too much talent and too much passion for the sport.

[Goldendawg]

IYOK, Ari, or other guys with insight, how is our standing with McKinnley Jackson and is Eli Acker really a possible flip? Thanks.

[Jarius]

IYOK, Ari, or other guys with insight, how is our standing with McKinnley Jackson and is Eli Acker really a possible flip? Thanks.

Jackson has shown us no return interest and Eli Acker is only going to flip if Matt Luke is fired and even then it's 50/50. Also, Jackson has plummeted down the recruiting rankings. He may be fortunate to stay a 4 star at the end of the day, although his potential is high enough that I suspect he will keep it.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

IYOK, Ari, or other guys with insight, how is our standing with McKinnley Jackson and is Eli Acker really a possible flip? Thanks.

We haven't recruited Jackson hard in months. I think there's only 2 SEC programs who would take his commitment right now (OM & Auburn).

Acker likes MSU a lot but like Jarius said I think it would take a coaching change to pull him. His family are big time OM supporters.

[Jarius]

We haven't recruited Jackson hard in months. I think there's only 2 SEC programs who would take his commitment right now (OM & Auburn).

Acker likes MSU a lot but like Jarius said I think it would take a coaching change to pull him. His family are big time OM supporters.

Yea there are just too many ties at OM for Acker, but all things equal I think he likes Joe and our staff a lot better than he likes the OM staff.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Yea there are just too many ties at OM for Acker, but all things equal I think he likes Joe and our staff a lot better than he likes the OM staff.

I agree

[ShotgunDawg]

Joe Mo can definitely recruit. He's got us heading in the right direction big time. It's nice to have this type of talent coming to Starkville.

Isn’t it the same talent we had under Mullen?

[KOdawg1]

We haven't recruited Jackson hard in months. I think there's only 2 SEC programs who would take his commitment right now (OM & Auburn).

Acker likes MSU a lot but like Jarius said I think it would take a coaching change to pull him. His family are big time OM supporters.

Jackson better be careful or he'll look up and find himself as a 3 star. He has had some very poor camp showings. He was ranked a 5 star just based on his size and potential, but everyone else has caught up to him now, and he is falling. He'll end up at OM and they'll claim that he's still a 5 star.

[KOdawg1]

Isn?t it the same talent we had under Mullen?
I think they're ultimately similar, but Joe and his staff work WAY harder at recruiting than Mullen's did, so we're rewarded with a player or two that Mullen wouldn't have gotten. Take Charles Cross for instance. Joe stayed on his ass, even when he committed to FSU, and got him. I don't think Mullen would've gotten Cross

[ShotgunDawg]

I think they're ultimately similar, but Joe and his staff work WAY harder at recruiting than Mullen's did, so we're rewarded with a player or two that Mullen wouldn't have gotten. Take Charles Cross for instance. Joe stayed on his ass, even when he committed to FSU, and got him. I don't think Mullen would've gotten Cross

Mo-head’s recruiting certainly seems more balanced. There doesn’t appear to be a positional black hole

The grad transfers have to count as well

[MetEdDawg]

Isn’t it the same talent we had under Mullen?

If Moorhead finishes with Top 25 classes every year then no it's not the same as Mullen. Obviously there is a lot of talent that was here under Mullen, but Moorhead is about to work his guys in more this year.

Class ranks by Mullen according to 24/7

2009: 18
2010: 30
2011: 41
2012: 22
2013: 24
2014: 36
2015: 18
2016: 28
2017: 24

Mullen never strung together more than 2 consecutive years of classes inside the Top 25. Now he did have those 2 classes of 18. Those were solid classes. But 4 classes outside the Top 25 over 9 years is going to keep us from being consistently competitive and in the upper echelon.

Moorhead in his 1st two years has gone 27 and 24. If he gets in the Top 25 again, that would put us at 3 out of the last 4 classes inside the Top 25. Last time that happened was 2012-2015 and two years after (2014-2017) is one of the better stretches in program history. So if Moorhead can continue to stay in the Top 25 and push into the Top 20 a few times like Mullen did, he will end up with far more talent and could get us to the 8-10 win mark consistently with no drop off years.

To me that's how we build. Mullen was great. But we had 4 of his 9 seasons where we finished with 6 or fewer regular season wins. Moorhead is here to reverse that and consistency in recruiting will be what pushes us there. Moorhead has a much better chance to do that because him and his staff grind in recruiting daily.

[KOdawg1]

If Moorhead finishes with Top 25 classes every year then no it's not the same as Mullen. Obviously there is a lot of talent that was here under Mullen, but Moorhead is about to work his guys in more this year.

Class ranks by Mullen according to 24/7

2009: 18
2010: 30
2011: 41
2012: 22
2013: 24
2014: 36
2015: 18
2016: 28
2017: 24

Mullen never strung together more than 2 consecutive years of classes inside the Top 25. Now he did have those 2 classes of 18. Those were solid classes. But 4 classes outside the Top 25 over 9 years is going to keep us from being consistently competitive and in the upper echelon.

Moorhead in his 1st two years has gone 27 and 24. If he gets in the Top 25 again, that would put us at 3 out of the last 4 classes inside the Top 25. Last time that happened was 2012-2015 and two years after (2014-2017) is one of the better stretches in program history. So if Moorhead can continue to stay in the Top 25 and push into the Top 20 a few times like Mullen did, he will end up with far more talent and could get us to the 8-10 win mark consistently with no drop off years.

To me that's how we build. Mullen was great. But we had 4 of his 9 seasons where we finished with 6 or fewer regular season wins. Moorhead is here to reverse that and consistency in recruiting will be what pushes us there. Moorhead has a much better chance to do that because him and his staff grind in recruiting daily.
This is freaking spot on. Consistently recruit in the top 25 while throwing a top 15ish class in every now and then, and we'll take a step forward as a program.

[msstate7]

This is freaking spot on. Consistently recruit in the top 25 while throwing a top 15ish class in every now and then, and we'll take a step forward as a program.

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there

[ShotgunDawg]

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there

Auburn and Texas A&M are good recruiters but in 2018 Auburn had the 14th most talented roster and A&M the 16th. Both of those teams obviously recruit better than us, but both are well within the margin for us to beat them.

[MetEdDawg]

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

[msstate7]

Auburn and Texas A&M are good recruiters but in 2018 Auburn had the 14th most talented roster and A&M the 16th. Both of those teams obviously recruit better than us, but both are well within the margin for us to beat them.

Didn't you say if the recruiting rankings were within 10 spots of each other then the better recruiting team wins 65% of the time? So let's assume aTm, auburn, ark, OM, and Kentucky stay within that 10 spot range? What's the odds we run the table among those teams?

[msstate7]

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

I'm very aware of the mountain we face. I don't expect us to win 9 games a year... I expect 7-8 most years esp with aTm upgrading talent and coaching. I just want us to compete for a NY6 bowl every 4 years... this is why I was so upset over this season. We had the team, LSU has a below avg coach, aTm had a better coach but 1st year, auburn lost whole oline... it was our shot to get a NY6 bowl

[Uncle Ruckus]

Jackson has shown us no return interest and Eli Acker is only going to flip if Matt Luke is fired and even then it's 50/50. Also, Jackson has plummeted down the recruiting rankings. He may be fortunate to stay a 4 star at the end of the day, although his potential is high enough that I suspect he will keep it.
I don?t watch highlight films because it only shows the good, not the bad. But I?ve scouted a few games where our opponent played GC and Jackson disappears. A lot. He is a really good player when he tries, but he doesn?t try often. He stands out on his size alone, is strong as hell and fast off the ball, but he?ll get beat 1v1 more times than he dominates due to what I perceive as laziness. I don?t expect much from him

[KOdawg1]

Will we? We aren't beating auburn, aTm, Bama, and LSU with recruiting. We'll have to beat them with experience and coaching. We can't outcoach or out talent bama, so cancel them off the list. aTm has upgraded coaching and is in the process of upgrading talent. LSU is staying an elite recruiter, but they do have coaching question marks. Auburn is a great recruiting program, but terribly inconsistent.

I look at the recipe you laid out as OM's, but they topped out even higher than top 15. They had a dynamic offense with a good coach. They did beat Bama, but it still didn't get them a west title. The grind of the sec west takes supreme talent, great coaching, and luck to win the west over saban. I don't see it happening for us as long saban is there
We've managed to consistently beat Auburn and A&M with inconsistent recruiting classes. So yes

[BrunswickDawg]

We've managed to consistently beat Auburn and A&M with inconsistent recruiting classes. So yes

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

[msstate7]

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

Yes, we have, and hopefully these trends continue. Tusk has a post in this thread ( https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?75179-2018-SEC-Talent-Rankings-W-Ls ) which he says Tennessee and us were outliers as far as bucking the recruiting rankings in relation to W/L; us the good way, and tenn the bad. Both have changed coaches now, so that will be something to keep an eye on.

[Ari Gold]

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

[Todd4State]

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

I don't understand why Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans with regards to beating top 20 teams but Joe has "may not work out". Joe essentially did what Dan typically did for most of his career except he didn't openly job hunt during the Egg Bowl. With players that Dan recruited. And I can guarantee that we would have had the same issues with Dan around last year and probably would have had similar results.

[Todd4State]

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

I am impressed. I feel like we are getting closer to our true ceiling in recruiting for sure. And I like that we are addressing all position groups rather than giving certain position coaches a pass for a year or two.

[MetEdDawg]

I don't understand why Dan got a complete pass from a lot of our fans with regards to beating top 20 teams but Joe has "may not work out". Joe essentially did what Dan typically did for most of his career except he didn't openly job hunt during the Egg Bowl. With players that Dan recruited. And I can guarantee that we would have had the same issues with Dan around last year and probably would have had similar results.

I think it's because the fan base had zero expectations his first 5 years. After we started getting better he delivered 10 wins. Expectations changed because we did it. Problem for me was we only did it once and that level of success was clearly not sustainable by us because we didn't have the recruiting that we needed to do it consistently.

I still think, unlike most, that we shouldn't be expecting 9 or more win regular seasons with any sort of regularity for the next decade. We just aren't that kind of program. In order to do that you have to win every single game that isn't Bama, TAMU, LSU, and Auburn. Then you have to beat one of those 4 and it might have to be on the road depending on the year.

Sucks to say, but we have arguably 4 Top 15 programs in all of college football that we have to play every year. We are a Top 25-30 program, but as far as regularly beating them? That's a tough ask.

Moorhead isn't going to get the pass. Unfortunately for him, the jump he is trying to take is a hell of a lot steeper climb than the jump Mullen had to take. He's going to be asked to win those Top 15-20 games more regularly and we just aren't in a spot to do it consistently...yet. We've tasted some victory. But there's a massive jump that has to be made where we walk into a game and realistically say "We were supposed to win that game". A lot of folks think we can win. But in the majority of cases over the last decade, we have to play our A or higher game and the other team has to play their worse than A game for us to win.

Until we get to the point where we can not play our best game and still win, we aren't there as a program. Moorhead might make it look rough the first few years. But what is undeniable is that he's hitting recruiting much harder and THAT is the only way to win big in the SEC. We don't have to develop talent or coach at Mullen level in order to win. But we do have to have comparable talent across the board at every position like the big boys. Mullen was never going to do that. Moorhead has shown he's willing to try.

[msstate7]

Expect Malik sooner than later ..
excellent work by the staff . JD is a BIG time talent

This is the one I want. I just have a good feeling about Malik being a nice player

[maroonmania]

If we recruit every year inside the Top 25 with 1 out of 4 being Top 2", Moorhead wins more games over 9 years than Mullen did.

Moorhead is in a crap spot honestly. He's got 6 programs in his division that spend more money in recruiting and at least 4 that spend way more money on coaching.. But his predecessor maximized the output far above what we should reasonably get from what Mullen brought in.

But Mullen only averaged 7 regular season wins per year. I don't know how long our fan base would keep Moorhead if he averaged 8 regular season wins per year but never won 10 regular season games. That would be a major improvement for our program to average 8 per year, but with the strength of Bama, LSU, Auburn, and TAMU it's highly conceivable that could be his path the next 5 years.

Moorhead is going to have it tough at MSU. I can't find anyone that gives me a logical reason why we should expect to consistently beat the 4 teams mentioned. They spend way more than we do in all areas. They recruit way better. They make more money. They have much greater football history and they have better coaches. Now I know we develop talent better, but that's not really measurable.

For Moorhead to come in and win an average of 8 games would be big for us. But I don't know that our fan base will want him around long if he can't throw in multiple 9 or 10 win regular seasons. And he's gonna have to average around #20 in recruiting to reasonably be asked to compete with those teams every single year.

If Moorhead can average 8 regular season wins per year he will be highly supported by our fanbase IF he continues to give great effort in recruiting, acts like he actually wants to be at MSU long term, and continues to be the likeable personality that he is. Mullen averaged 7-8 wins per year and would have been universally loved without his constant job shopping and his "Yankee" personality. He was appreciated even with that but everyone pretty much knew that MSU was just a temporary job in Mullen's view. The one advantage the Moorhead will have over Mullen, besides recruiting, is staff retention especially on defense. Coaches actually like and respect Moorhead and won't be jobhopping just to get a change of scenery at the rate they did under Mullen.

[Todd4State]

I think it's because the fan base had zero expectations his first 5 years. After we started getting better he delivered 10 wins. Expectations changed because we did it. Problem for me was we only did it once and that level of success was clearly not sustainable by us because we didn't have the recruiting that we needed to do it consistently.

I still think, unlike most, that we shouldn't be expecting 9 or more win regular seasons with any sort of regularity for the next decade. We just aren't that kind of program. In order to do that you have to win every single game that isn't Bama, TAMU, LSU, and Auburn. Then you have to beat one of those 4 and it might have to be on the road depending on the year.

Sucks to say, but we have arguably 4 Top 15 programs in all of college football that we have to play every year. We are a Top 25-30 program, but as far as regularly beating them? That's a tough ask.

Moorhead isn't going to get the pass. Unfortunately for him, the jump he is trying to take is a hell of a lot steeper climb than the jump Mullen had to take. He's going to be asked to win those Top 15-20 games more regularly and we just aren't in a spot to do it consistently...yet. We've tasted some victory. But there's a massive jump that has to be made where we walk into a game and realistically say "We were supposed to win that game". A lot of folks think we can win. But in the majority of cases over the last decade, we have to play our A or higher game and the other team has to play their worse than A game for us to win.

Until we get to the point where we can not play our best game and still win, we aren't there as a program. Moorhead might make it look rough the first few years. But what is undeniable is that he's hitting recruiting much harder and THAT is the only way to win big in the SEC. We don't have to develop talent or coach at Mullen level in order to win. But we do have to have comparable talent across the board at every position like the big boys. Mullen was never going to do that. Moorhead has shown he's willing to try.

On that end we were up until 2013 basically a 6-8 win program other than 2010 which was a special season and 2012 where we had a very favorable schedule and won 8 games. After 2013 was when we started to consistently win 8 games a year except for the year Peter Sirmon was our DC.

I agree that the challenge is going to be to get us from 8 to 9-10 a year. I think the good news on that front is Jackie showed us that we could beat those teams some. Dan consistently beat who he should. Which is a good thing. But we have to now find a way to combine both- and I agree that the only way to do it is through recruiting.

I think recruiting really held Dan back as far as his ceiling here as well as his pride and arrogance- see 1A/1B which to me was an example of him trying to show everyone how much smarter he was than everyone else. That may have cost us both Alabama and Ole Miss in 2014. And then the recruiting left us with gaps on both sides of the ball- especially the offense. Like having a bunch of 5'9" WR's one year, Brandon Holloway as the primary back another year, and costing us players that could have potentially helped us out that he let get away because he didn't want to recruit them.

[Jarius]

I think Joe is Going to recruit well enough that he can consistently win 8/9 games a year once he gets his players in here. The problem is going to be retaining him in my opinion. Our fanbase is going to go from worrying about him being a downgrade to worrying about him not taking another job after this year. He needs his guys on offense, especially at qb. I truly think he is going to open some eyes this year and some tunes are going to change.

[Cowbell]

I think Joe is Going to recruit well enough that he can consistently win 8/9 games a year once he gets his players in here. The problem is going to be retaining him in my opinion. Our fanbase is going to go from worrying about him being a downgrade to worrying about him not taking another job after this year. He needs his guys on offense, especially at qb. I truly think he is going to open some eyes this year and some tunes are going to change.

This is where I?m at. I honestly still believe we have the right guy. This league has a learning curve to it and this man doesn?t fail. Good guy too to boot. Just hope we appreciate him before it?s too late and a big 10 school comes calling.

[TALL DAWG]

And we have been competitive with LSU since 2014. 2 FG away from people having a very different perspective on LSU.

4 out of last 7 against Auburn and
4 out of last 5 against A&M also.

[Bothrops]

4 out of last 7 against Auburn and
4 out of last 5 against A&M also.

Our program has taken an important step forward over the last decade. The sports media people that don't recognize that fact, aren't worth anyone's time.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Dan would have beat UK last year but lost to Ole Miss if he was our coach last year....

[ShotgunDawg]

Dan would have beat UK last year but lost to Ole Miss if he was our coach last year....

Boy.... I realize we all want to hate Mullen, but there's no way he would've lost to OM last year. That was a complete mismatch

[timotheus]

I think dan would have beaten the gators last year as well too but i disagree on the egg bowl that defense couldn't stop water

[msstate7]

Boy.... I realize we all want to hate Mullen, but there's no way he would've lost to OM last year. That was a complete mismatch

About another month and Mullen will be worse than croom. Mullen should be so thankful to miss state for propping him up with our tradition-rich football program, rather than both should be thankful for the time the 2 shared together

[BuckyIsAB****]

Aaryn Parks and Groce Jr? We likely to get either?

[msu15]

Dan would have beat UK last year but lost to Ole Miss if he was our coach last year....

Lol....no way in hell we lose to ole miss

[Lord McBuckethead]

Lol....no way in hell we lose to ole miss


Don't want to get off track, but Mullen should not have lost to UM a single time, except when Fitz broke his leg.
We had more talent than them every single year Mullen was here.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Lol....no way in hell we lose to ole miss

LOL... Ya’ll quickly forgot about Mullen (with a playoff birth on the line) losing to a one-legged Bo Wallace team that had just lost to Arkansas 30-0 7 days earlier.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Aaryn Parks and Groce Jr? We likely to get either?

We're not actively recruiting Groce.

[BuckyIsAB****]

We're not actively recruiting Groce.

Lack of interest or bc we got our LB targets

[BuckyIsAB****]

Scooba, I laughed when I saw Pegues listed as a S/ATH on the update board. That kid is a DL playing TE/WR. He is huge, can move too

[Homedawg]

Scooba, I laughed when I saw Pegues listed as a S/ATH on the update board. That kid is a DL playing TE/WR. He is huge, can move too

This. Saw him last year. He's gonna be huge. But he is athletic

[BuckyIsAB****]

This. Saw him last year. He's gonna be huge. But he is athletic

He played TE/WR for them in 7 on 7 this summer and was pretty good. He has some swagger about him. Hope we can get him

[ScoobaDawg]

Scooba, I laughed when I saw Pegues listed as a S/ATH on the update board. That kid is a DL playing TE/WR. He is huge, can move too

Don't know the first thing about him besides wondered if he is related to derek. 24/7 lists him as an athlete so that's what I put.

[1bigdawg]

Do we have a real shot at Pegues?

[Homedawg]

Do we have a real shot at Pegues?

Not unless there's been some major change, no.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Do we have a real shot at Pegues?

No. Unless Malzahn gets fired I expect him to go to Auburn.

[Dawg-gone-dawgs]

Cole Smith announce he's transferring to State yet? I've been away for a little while...

[KOdawg1]

Cole Smith announce he's transferring to State yet? I've been away for a little while...

Shouldn't be long. Never thought he'd be a bulldog after his whole recruiting process, but he seems to have found his way back.

[KOdawg1]

Co-Lin might win the JUCO national championship this year. The talent on that team is really good, and we're getting most of them.

Jordan Davis, DE, MSU commit
Kundarrius Taylor, WR, Memphis commit
Malik Heath, WR, will be MSU commit
Tyrus Wheat, S/LB, might be MSU commit
Sebastian Dolcine, OL, MSU commit
Natrone Brooks, CB, a couple of mid-major offers

Idk who their QB is, but if he's worth a flip, they'll give EMCC all they can handle.

edited to add: their QB will be Kentucky transfer Danny Clark.

[Turfdawg67]

LOL... Ya’ll quickly forgot about Mullen (with a playoff birth on the line) losing to a one-legged Bo Wallace team that had just lost to Arkansas 30-0 7 days earlier.

Boy... that shut 'em up. That game was equal to South Alabama (in the Mullen era) as the absolute worst game ever!! And it could/should be -all time- considering the consequences of that game. 17 Merlins!!

[Turfdawg67]

Cole Smith announce he's transferring to State yet? I've been away for a little while...

BOOM!!

[99jc]

The problem is going to be retaining him in my opinion. Our fanbase is going to go from worrying about him being a downgrade to worrying about him not taking another job after this year.

You have got to be joking! LOL.

[Todd4State]

Boy... that shut 'em up. That game was equal to South Alabama (in the Mullen era) as the absolute worst game ever!! And it could/should be -all time- considering the consequences of that game. 17 Merlins!!

I still consider his loss on Dak's senior day with the Sugar Bowl on the line while he was trying to get the Miami job even worse personally. Both were pretty bad.

[ShotgunDawg]

I still consider his loss on Dak's senior day with the Sugar Bowl on the line while he was trying to get the Miami job even worse personally. Both were pretty bad.

Cost us the Sugar Bowl

[msstate7]

Cost us the Sugar Bowl

OM was better than us in 2015

[Jarius]

You have got to be joking! LOL.

I am not. Have a great day and #Hailstate

[ShotgunDawg]

OM was better than us in 2015

Agree but that game did cost us the Sugar

[NCDawg]

OM was better than us in 2015

No question about it. Our OL was dominated by OM. Dak was beaten up all game long. We were jinxed anyway wearing maroon jerseys with white helmets.

[chef dixon]

Way off topic now but Ole Miss by the end of 2015 could have beaten just about anyone in the country. They were really clicking. Thank the lord arkansas pulled that game out of their ass against them.

[Todd4State]

OM was better than us in 2015

If we don't turn the ball over we beat them.

[msstate7]

If we don't turn the ball over we beat them.

Those first quarter 2 TOs were killers

[Goldendawg]

Class is filling up. Who do some of you guys in the know see finishing up the class? Thanks. Hail State!

[Homedawg]

Class is filling up. Who do some of you guys in the know see finishing up the class? Thanks. Hail State!

It is. But we have several that won't be a part of it that are committed

[msstate7]

It is. But we have several that won't be a part of it that are committed

I assume they're being upgraded... well, I hope they are

[KOdawg1]

I assume they're being upgraded... well, I hope they are
Anderson-Butts and J. Patterson are possibly two that may "decommit." I'm not sure though. Numbers are getting tight and there's a few good players still left, so we'll have to cut some people if we want to get them I would think.

[1bigdawg]

We CAN over sign up to around 30 with carry-over from previous years. We may have 25 from last year, but that did not use up all of our carry-over. I am not saying we should or will, only that we can.

[Bothrops]

We may not hold on to Forbes. His ranking will get a significant bump at some point.

[Todd4State]

We CAN over sign up to around 30 with carry-over from previous years. We may have 25 from last year, but that did not use up all of our carry-over. I am not saying we should or will, only that we can.

I think we should if we can. That makes the most sense to me at least. I don't think we will have to go after as many grad transfers next year for one thing.

[Irondawg]

Anderson-Butts issue will be his academics - seems to be a strong chance his isn't going to be a 2020 recruit for anybody.

I think we'd be wise to continue to be a big player in the transfer market and always leave 1-2 spots open

[Ari Gold]

Just my guess and based on what I have heard ( IYOK May have heard different )
You can replace Anderson-Butts and Patterson with Malik
And I think 1 maybe 2 more are iffy and always have to expect a de committ or 2 ( even tho I think this year might be rather quiet)
Also We have some guys high on the board and high on us that are uncommitted we would and will take no matter what if they decide to choose the good guys

Numbers will always work themselves out

[KOdawg1]

Just my guess and based on what I have heard ( IYOK May have heard different )
You can replace Anderson-Butts and Patterson with Malik
And I think 1 maybe 2 more are iffy and always have to expect a de committ or 2 ( even tho I think this year might be rather quiet)
Also We have some guys high on the board and high on us that are uncommitted we would and will take no matter what if they decide to choose the good guys

Numbers will always work themselves out

Forbes to OM one of those possible de-commits?

[Lord McBuckethead]

Those first quarter 2 TOs were killers

That and Dak may have pooped himself, a little.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The more I see Ahmad Johnson the more I think we are messing up by not going after him. It could be off the field issues, I have no idea but on the field he looks and moves like a SEC player.

[Uncle Ruckus]

The more I see Ahmad Johnson the more I think we are messing up by not going after him. It could be off the field issues, I have no idea but on the field he looks and moves like a SEC player.
I know nothing about his football skills, but he’s a freak athlete. Similar to Purvis, and the comparison has nothing to do with them being from the same school. Big. Strong. Fast as shit.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I know nothing about his football skills, but he’s a freak athlete. Similar to Purvis, and the comparison has nothing to do with them being from the same school. Big. Strong. Fast as shit.

Absolutely. Purvis is going to be great at State. Maybe there is something I dont know, but Ahmad Johnson is all of those things you listed

[Cooterpoot]

I know nothing about his football skills, but he?s a freak athlete. Similar to Purvis, and the comparison has nothing to do with them being from the same school. Big. Strong. Fast as shit.

Nowhere close to Purvis- Nowhere. He?s not an SEC caliber player. He would be good at USM.

[jacksondawg]

Nowhere close to Purvis- Nowhere. He?s not an SEC caliber player. He would be good at USM.

I haven't seen him play so Im not saying your wrong just want your opinion on what he is lacking to be a sec caliber player?

[Ari Gold]

The more I see Ahmad Johnson the more I think we are messing up by not going after him. It could be off the field issues, I have no idea but on the field he looks and moves like a SEC player.


I will ask about Johnson next week.
It’s not like the kid is getting overlooked because he played with Pickering last year. So there was plenty of tape and eyeballs on him.
Maybe is qualification issues...

[BuckyIsAB****]

I will ask about Johnson next week.
It’s not like the kid is getting overlooked because he played with Pickering last year. So there was plenty of tape and eyeballs on him.
Maybe is qualification issues...

OM and no other big schools have offered either so it may be something. And I havent seen him play in a real game yet but he def looks the part and can move. Good hands as well

[Cooterpoot]

I’ve seen him a few times. He’s not the explosive athlete some tried to make him out to be early in the process. He’s a solid player that’s not going to blow you away. OM took Keys over him and Keys is a major project with injury issues. Keys could also end up in another position though. We’re solid at LB and spots are thin too.

[Ari Gold]

I’ve seen him a few times. He’s not the explosive athlete some tried to make him out to be early in the process. He’s a solid player that’s not going to blow you away. OM took Keys over him and Keys is a major project with injury issues. Keys could also end up in another position though. We’re solid at LB and spots are thin too.

Agree

[BuckyIsAB****]

3 out of the 4 dandy dozen kids are all Dawg. The other one is a likely State lean. Wonder if Moorhead and co. will get the credit or will some poo poo it because we didnt sign the whole top 5 a year ago.

[Westdawg]

I just talked on Montra Edwards in a thread below.
I want that kid on the team. Somebody convince me otherwise.....I'll hang and listen 😉

[Jarius]

Edwards will have to be signed twice more than likely.

[Westdawg]

Edwards will have to be signed twice more than likely.

Sadly, that's also my concern on him

[1bigdawg]

I believe Moorhead is doing a good job recruiting. However, based on the record of previous Dandy Dozens, I am not getting excited about our guys being included.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Another Dandy another State commit. Jevon Banks

[Ari Gold]

I believe Moorhead is doing a good job recruiting. However, based on the record of previous Dandy Dozens, I am not getting excited about our guys being included.

It’s the CL dandy dozen. Let the kids enjoy their moment..

[msstate7]

Another Dandy another State commit. Jevon Banks

What's the count, 5 of 6 so far?

[Westdawg]

Don't worry the backend is loaded with OM commits/leans

[msstate7]

Don't worry the backend is loaded with OM commits/leans

That's sorta what I was wondering is if they just grouped em

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Don't worry the backend is loaded with OM commits/leans

A few but not a ton esp with Pegues trending Auburn.

[Ari Gold]

They better hope a lot of these guys sign early... might be a lot of coaching turnover there...

[sscjr1]

They better hope a lot of these guys sign early... might be a lot of coaching turnover there...

At Auburn or OM?

[Hambone]

My guess is both. But OM for sure.

[yjnkdawg]

At Auburn or OM?

I'm pretty sure that Ari was referencing OM but the ones on the Auburn Plains may be in for a shock too.

[Todd4State]

I'm pretty sure that Ari was referencing OM but the ones on the Auburn Plains may be in for a shock too.

If they are 2-3 with losses to Oregon and A&M when we play them MSU is going to be a really big game for them.

[Lance Harbor]

Just wanted to be a part of the 69th page on recruiting.

[vv83]

Just wanted to be a part of the 69th page on recruiting.

Nice

[hacker]

Just wanted to be a part of the 69th page on recruiting.

Nice

[Doggie_Style]

With Forbes and McDonald most likely attending Ole Miss' and Arky's events this weekend it looks like there may be some bad news on the horizon for the good guys.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

With Forbes and McDonald most likely attending Ole Miss' and Arky's events this weekend it looks like there may be some bad news on the horizon for the good guys.

Arkansas is Friday MSU is Saturday. Mcdonald doesn't have an Arkansas offer & not likely to get 1.

[msu15]

With Forbes and McDonald most likely attending Ole Miss' and Arky's events this weekend it looks like there may be some bad news on the horizon for the good guys.

Lol, of course you would think that.

[msstate7]

Arkansas is Friday MSU is Saturday. Mcdonald doesn't have an Arkansas offer & not likely to get 1.

Not exactly reassuring saying McDonald won't get an ark offer. Are we pursuing French (ark commit)? I'm assuming he and McDonald are team mates

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Not exactly reassuring saying McDonald won't get an ark offer. Are we pursuing French (ark commit)? I'm assuming he and McDonald are team mates

Arkansas has 3-4 LB committed already & they're recruiting Eason just like we are. I could be wrong on them offering I was just looking strictly from a #'s standpoint not talent.

[vv83]

Arkansas has 3-4 LB committed already & they're recruiting Eason just like we are. I could be wrong on them offering I was just looking strictly from a #'s standpoint not talent.

What?s your honest not sugar coated prediction on Forbes?

[ShotgunDawg]

What?s your honest not sugar coated prediction on Forbes?

My opinion is that Ole Miss' entire staff won't be there by December so his recruitment won't end either way.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

What?s your honest not sugar coated prediction on Forbes?

I think it's going to be tough to keep him.

[Doggie_Style]

I think it's going to be tough to keep him.

He did grow up an Ole Miss fan and that is difficult to overcome....I know our guys are going to stay on him but we need a plan B for sure

[Ifyouonlyknew]

He did grow up an Ole Miss fan and that is difficult to overcome....I know our guys are going to stay on him but we need a plan B for sure

For sure. He will be in Starkville this weekend though not Oxford. We need him to sit tight until the season start because that's where our advantage is. Watching Dantzler & Smitherman & our play making defense vs OM & their ????

[Doggie_Style]

For sure. He will be in Starkville this weekend though not Oxford. We need him to sit tight until the season start because that's where our advantage is. Watching Dantzler & Smitherman & our play making defense vs OM & their ????

Agreed....and happy he will be at the BBQ!.........OM's season is a looming shitshow

[Ari Gold]

Expecting good news this weekend..

[Doggie_Style]

Expecting good news this weekend..

Awesome.....Wheat? Heath? Wally? Others?

[msbulldog]

Bet it's Heath, which that will be awesome.

[Ari Gold]

I posted few weeks ago Heath would be sooner than later , and I also think we may get a couple of 2021
Maybe not Wheat this weekend but I think he is a dog in the end

[KOdawg1]

What?s your honest not sugar coated prediction on Forbes?

I'm okay with losing Forbes if we can get Jaden Walley from D'Iberville. He's an athletic kid who can play WR/DB at the next level.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I'm okay with losing Forbes if we can get Jaden Walley from D'Iberville. He's an athletic kid who can play WR/DB at the next level.

I'm not. Forbes is Dantzler 2.0 we need to keep him. I would like walley too but I don't want the trade off.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

According to Paul McDonald isn't going to Arkansas today.

[msbulldog]

According to Paul McDonald isn't going to Arkansas today.

Great news!

[Bothrops]

Not sure why McDonald would go to Arkansas the weekend of our event anyway.

[KOdawg1]

I'm not. Forbes is Dantzler 2.0 we need to keep him. I would like walley too but I don't want the trade off.

Well yeah, obviously, Forbes is better. I don't mean it as a trade off, I just meant that if we lose Forbes like many seem to think we will, getting a kid like Walley would lessen the blow. If the numbers work out to where we could get both, then all the better.

[Homedawg]

I'm okay with losing Forbes if we can get Jaden Walley from D'Iberville. He's an athletic kid who can play WR/DB at the next level.

Forbes is really good. So I don't know why you are ok w it. But ok

[KOdawg1]

Forbes is really good. So I don't know why you are ok w it. But ok

Look at my previous post. Didn't say he wasn't good.

Reason I would be okay with it would be because he grew up an Ole Miss fan, and you really can't blame a kid or a coaching staff for losing a kid to his favorite team. It would be fantastic if we kept him though. Him showing up to our BBQ event this weekend would be big

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Look at my previous post. Didn't say he wasn't good.

Reason I would be okay with it would be because he grew up an Ole Miss fan, and you really can't blame a kid or a coaching staff for losing a kid to his favorite team. It would be fantastic if we kept him though. Him showing up to our BBQ event this weekend would be big

He will be there.

[Jarius]

He will be there.

Yea this speaks well for us. If he went to OM this weekend I was going to write him off. Joe hanging in there.

[Scared_Hitless]

Being reported Malik Heath is back in the boat. Good on Coach for staying on him after he slipped to JUCO he is a talent.

[msstate7]

Being reported Malik Heath is back in the boat. Good on Coach for staying on him after he slipped to JUCO he is a talent.

This is perhaps the one I'm most excited about so far. I have a great feeling about heath

[ShotgunDawg]

This is perhaps the one I'm most excited about so far. I have a great feeling about heath

I do as well.

This year is really the only year we would've missed him & with Zuber coming into the fold, it mitigates that loss

[ShotgunDawg]

With Heath back in the boat, we've not got 6 257 4 stars. Forbes is a composite 3 star, but 247 4 star.

We need 3-4 more for this to a be kind of class we need to take the next step.

Remember, the goal is for half our roster to be 4/5 star recruits & 9-10 per year puts you on pace for that. Meaning, we need about 40 4/5 star recruits + some grad transfers to fill in holes.

[MetEdDawg]

Here's the question I have. That's 4 JUCO WR in the boat. Now I guess the common assumption is that Patterson won't be part of this class and potentially Anderson Butts. But that still begs the question how bad is our WR core after this year? I think we have some issues but 4 JUCO WR in one class? That's got to be a massive indictment of our current talent at that position.

That's the position that concerns me the most going forward. I would assume 2021 and 2022 are going to be heavy on WR and that these guys in this class will help bridge the talent gap we seem to have for the next 2-3 years. But that's got to be concerning that he feels we need that many JUCO WRs.

[Ari Gold]

Still may be one more coming ...

[bulldawg28]

With Heath back in the boat, we've not got 6 257 4 stars. Forbes is a composite 3 star, but 247 4 star.

We need 3-4 more for this to a be kind of class we need to take the next step.

Remember, the goal is for half our roster to be 4/5 star recruits & 9-10 per year puts you on pace for that. Meaning, we need about 40 4/5 star recruits + some grad transfers to fill in holes.

The goal is not to have writers selected 4/5 stars on the roster. That's your desire. Let the coaches select the talent needed and trust them.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Here's the question I have. That's 4 JUCO WR in the boat. Now I guess the common assumption is that Patterson won't be part of this class and potentially Anderson Butts. But that still begs the question how bad is our WR core after this year? I think we have some issues but 4 JUCO WR in one class? That's got to be a massive indictment of our current talent at that position.

That's the position that concerns me the most going forward. I would assume 2021 and 2022 are going to be heavy on WR and that these guys in this class will help bridge the talent gap we seem to have for the next 2-3 years. But that's got to be concerning that he feels we need that many JUCO WRs.

There will only be 2 juco WR in this class.

[bulldawg28]

Here's the question I have. That's 4 JUCO WR in the boat. Now I guess the common assumption is that Patterson won't be part of this class and potentially Anderson Butts. But that still begs the question how bad is our WR core after this year? I think we have some issues but 4 JUCO WR in one class? That's got to be a massive indictment of our current talent at that position.

That's the position that concerns me the most going forward. I would assume 2021 and 2022 are going to be heavy on WR and that these guys in this class will help bridge the talent gap we seem to have for the next 2-3 years. But that's got to be concerning that he feels we need that many JUCO WRs.

I think it's indicative of the type of player JoMo wants versus anything else. He knows the foundation has been laid and he can't regress waiting on high school talent that may take time to develop. That's just my opinion. However, we really do not have a lot of quality depth in the position.

[Ari Gold]

There will only be 2 juco WR in this class.


This..... For at least the 10th time.

[Ari Gold]

Here is looking at you Tyrus Wheat... pull that trigger kid..

[ShotgunDawg]

The goal is not to have writers selected 4/5 stars on the roster. That's your desire. Let the coaches select the talent needed and trust them.

Stop choosing to be stupid. Please, you're wasting hot air.

There is a mountain of information out there that says you need a roster of 50% 4/5 star players to compete for Atlanta or the national championship

So please, stop being knowingly dumb

We will definitely sign good 3 stars as well but those 3 stars need to beat out 4 stars to play.

[1bigdawg]

There will only be 2 juco WR in this class.

Which sets things up nicely for the great 2021 WR class in Mississippi.

[BuckyIsAB****]

The goal is not to have writers selected 4/5 stars on the roster. That's your desire. Let the coaches select the talent needed and trust them.

Glad somebody said it

[HoopsDawg]

This..... For at least the 10th time.

It annoys me that 247 still lists them as commits.

[bulldawg28]

Stop choosing to be stupid. Please, you're wasting hot air.

There is a mountain of information out there that says you need a roster of 50% 4/5 star players to compete for Atlanta or the national championship

So please, stop being knowingly dumb

We will definitely sign good 3 stars as well but those 3 stars need to beat out 4 stars to play.

The only dumb one is you if you're expecting Mississippi state to have 50% of the roster to 4/5 stars. There may be 8 teams in the country that can say that.

[ShotgunDawg]

The only dumb one is you if you're expecting Mississippi state to have 50% of the roster to 4/5 stars. There may be 8 teams in the country that can say that.

Expecting vs hoping for are 2 different things.

I think everyone wants to know the barometer it takes to be a "contender" and that is the barometer.

If we are going to take the next step, that is the step. 10 4/5 recruits every year

And FYI, in the 2018 there were 11 teams with that profile

[BuckyIsAB****]

Expecting vs hoping for are 2 different things.

I think everyone wants to know the barometer it takes to be a "contender" and that is the barometer.

If we are going to take the next step, that is the step. 10 4/5 recruits every year

And FYI, in the 2018 there were 11 teams with that profile

If everyone knew the barometer then everyone would do it. Its a lot more to it than that, but I suppose as a fan thats one way to look at it. Not gonna blame you, if you listen to Bo bounds you would think 90 percent of the country should just cancel the season now. That doesnt make it right though

[Bdawg]

Here is looking at you Tyrus Wheat... pull that trigger kid..

He gunna do it, or what? Haha

[bulldawg28]

Expecting vs hoping for are 2 different things.

I think everyone wants to know the barometer it takes to be a "contender" and that is the barometer.

If we are going to take the next step, that is the step. 10 4/5 recruits every year

And FYI, in the 2018 there were 11 teams with that profile

Wow...a whole 3 more teams! Guess what Mississippi state football will never be one of those teams consistently.

[ShotgunDawg]

Wow...a whole 3 more teams! Guess what Mississippi state football will never be one of those teams consistently.

Glad you don't recruit for us.

I don't get why MSU fans say this about their school. Makes no sense to me.

[Bothrops]

Glad you don't recruit for us.

I don't get why MSU fans say this about their school. Makes no sense to me.

What if I were to tell you that commits, Cooley and Dolcine should be 4 star guys right now, as is..?

[ShotgunDawg]

What if I were to tell you that commits, Cooley and Dolcine should be 4 star guys right now, as is..?

Then I would say great, hopefully they have to beat out actual 4 star guys to start.

[bulldawg28]

Glad you don't recruit for us.

I don't get why MSU fans say this about their school. Makes no sense to me.

Damn bro get some common sense. No coach gives a f*** about a rating. They want football players. Ratings do not win football games. The same clowns that devalue a Mississippi kid and promote an Alabama commit. No one but a stone cold idiot would put stock in a system that broken.

[ShotgunDawg]

Damn bro get some common sense. No coach gives a f*** about a rating. They want football players. Ratings do not win football games. The same clowns that devalue a Mississippi kid and promote an Alabama commit. No one but a stone cold idiot would put stock in a system that broken.

Is your name Cletus & do you sell propane at the gas station?

The level of meat head you're portraying right now is egregious.

[TALL DAWG]

Expecting vs hoping for are 2 different things.

I think everyone wants to know the barometer it takes to be a "contender" and that is the barometer.

If we are going to take the next step, that is the step. 10 4/5 recruits every year

And FYI, in the 2018 there were 11 teams with that profile

Holy Moly...not this type $hit yet again??

Someone probably already has a chart of this but would someone please send
out a list of all the 3 star players and on occasions players ?who could be
considered 2 stars? which we, and some other schools for that matter,
have signed over past 15 yrs.....to show how many turned out to be
great college players and made it to the NFL?

Nothing wrong with getting 4/5 star players (obviously) but we have to go
after any players who fit what our coaches are looking for.

[ShotgunDawg]

Holy Moly...not this type $hit yet again??

Someone probably already has a chart of this but would someone please send
out a list of all the 3 star players and on occasions players ?who could be
considered 2 stars? which we, and some other schools for that matter,
have signed over past 15 yrs.....to show how many turned out to be
great college players and made it to the NFL?

Nothing wrong with getting 4/5 star players (obviously) but we have to go
after any players who fit what our coaches are looking for.

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying

[Uncle Ruckus]

You clearly don't understand what I'm saying
You have been trying so f’ing hard to be the new c34 with this topic. Give it up. No one will ever be able to replace that douche bag. And you’re too obvious.

[Ari Gold]

So we get a HUGE commit from a big time WR, which is the position most on here bitch about 24/7, and all we are taking about is Star rankings...

[ShotgunDawg]

So we get a HUGE commit from a big time WR, which is the position most on here bitch about 24/7, and all we are taking about is Star rankings...

Well, it's a recruiting thread. Isn't that what we're supposed to talk about?

We've been talking about Heath for 3 years now.

[Ari Gold]

Well, it's a recruiting thread. Isn't that what we're supposed to talk about?

We've been talking about Heath for 3 years now.

Yes we need as many 4 and 5 star players as we can get. What school doesn’t.
And yes there isn’t much difference in the higher ranked 3 star players and 3/4 of the 4 star guys
Teams that don’t have the luxury of getting the bulk of 5 star players have to get lucky they don’t miss on the majority of their guys..
Can we move on now.....?

[ShotgunDawg]

Can we move on now.....?

Move on to what?

[maroonmania]

Wow...a whole 3 more teams! Guess what Mississippi state football will never be one of those teams consistently.

I personally believe we can be slightly below that profile and still compete at a very high level because I think Mississippi recruits, for the most part, are underrated in comparison to most other States. Last year was the first year I've seen where the recruiting sites seemed to give much credit to MS HS players and that was primarily because we had a bumper crop of defensive players. If a guy performs equally as well in TX, GA or FL he seemingly will always be ranked a good bit higher than the MS kid.

[bulldawg28]

I personally believe we can be slightly below that profile and still compete at a very high level because I think Mississippi recruits, for the most part, are underrated in comparison to most other States. Last year was the first year I've seen where the recruiting sites seemed to give much credit to MS HS players and that was primarily because we had a bumper crop of defensive players. If a guy performs equally as well in TX, GA or FL he seemingly will always be ranked a good bit higher than the MS kid.

Agreed 100%

[ShotgunDawg]

I personally believe we can be slightly below that profile and still compete at a very high level because I think Mississippi recruits, for the most part, are underrated in comparison to most other States. Last year was the first year I've seen where the recruiting sites seemed to give much credit to MS HS players and that was primarily because we had a bumper crop of defensive players. If a guy performs equally as well in TX, GA or FL he seemingly will always be ranked a good bit higher than the MS kid.

I can agree with much of this.

[Uncle Ruckus]

Move on to what?
Not move on to - move on from. Move on from you being a f’ing broken record no one wants to hear

[yjnkdawg]

Yes we need as many 4 and 5 star players as we can get. What school doesn’t.
And yes there isn’t much difference in the higher ranked 3 star players and 3/4 of the 4 star guys
Teams that don’t have the luxury of getting the bulk of 5 star players have to get lucky they don’t miss on the majority of their guys..
Can we move on now.....?

He will never figure out what you are referring to, Ari. Some people wonder why there was another recruiting thread created.. The reason was because a few posters hijacked this thread for their own personal agenda, and you had to scroll through so much unrelated crap to get to the actual pertinent information on 2020 MSU football recruiting.

[msbulldog]

Really glad to have M. Heath back in the fold officially! Welcome back young man! The WR room just got a whole lot better. CJM is taking care of CDM deficiencies.

[maroonmania]

Really glad to have M. Heath back in the fold officially! Welcome back young man! The WR room just got a whole lot better. CJM is taking care of CDM deficiencies.

Certainly glad to get him back in the committed column. I guess nothing is really 'official' until papers are signed.

[ShotgunDawg]

He will never figure out what you are referring to, Ari. Some people wonder why there was another recruiting thread created.. The reason was because a few posters hijacked this thread for their own personal agenda, and you had to scroll through so much unrelated crap to get to the actual pertinent information on 2020 MSU football recruiting.

Like you? Because that's all your post just was. A way of promoting your agenda.

[Bdawg]

I can agree with much of this.

Then I guess the question is, you need to look back at previous rosters and see who was underrated(should have been 4* or better) and who was overrated(4*s who should have been 3* and below) to see exactly how many true 4* or better players were on our roster(because y'all agree MS players are generally ranked lower). This to me is the best judge of how someone recruited. Then you can take that data and see if we are bringing in the necessary number of 4 and 5 star players to compete against the top 10. Can't tell with Moorhead yet because of no past history. But I will give Mullen a little credit because his last couple of classes had some 3*s play like 4 and 5*s. Problem is, they were mostly defense and not balanced.

[justwin]

This..... For at least the 10th time.

If we take 5 wrs, you think we get both Adams & walley from diberville to go with ducking, Heath, and griffin?

I really think walley is a college wr star. How do you feel about him?

Adams is now a 3 star. Seems like if we throw 30+ tds this year to convince him to come, he was commuted once before. Needs to witness us throw successfully

[BuckyIsAB****]

If we take 5 wrs, you think we get both Adams & walley from diberville to go with ducking, Heath, and griffin?

I really think walley is a college wr star. How do you feel about him?

Adams is now a 3 star. Seems like if we throw 30+ tds this year to convince him to come, he was commuted once before. Needs to witness us throw successfully

The entire country needs to see us throw the ball successfully

[Todd4State]

If we take 5 wrs, you think we get both Adams & walley from diberville to go with ducking, Heath, and griffin?

I really think walley is a college wr star. How do you feel about him?

Adams is now a 3 star. Seems like if we throw 30+ tds this year to convince him to come, he was commuted once before. Needs to witness us throw successfully

He seems like he may be more of a CB/KR to me.

[Irondawg]

Alright so how concerned are we that J. Brown went to the OM cookout instead of ours when he's a commit?

[SmokeyDawg]

When did I miss Cole Smith transferring?

[Jarius]

If we take 5 wrs, you think we get both Adams & walley from diberville to go with ducking, Heath, and griffin?

I really think walley is a college wr star. How do you feel about him?

Adams is now a 3 star. Seems like if we throw 30+ tds this year to convince him to come, he was commuted once before. Needs to witness us throw successfully

We need Adams to not qualify and go to Co-Lin. That's our best shot at ending up with him.

[timotheus]

When did I miss Cole Smith transferring?

few weeks ago

[KOdawg1]

Alright so how concerned are we that J. Brown went to the OM cookout instead of ours when he's a commit?

Slightly. However, there are plenty of other options at LB should he flip.

[Covercorner2]

Expecting vs hoping for are 2 different things.

I think everyone wants to know the barometer it takes to be a "contender" and that is the barometer.

If we are going to take the next step, that is the step. 10 4/5 recruits every year

And FYI, in the 2018 there were 11 teams with that profile

So... you want us to consistently be a top 12 recruiter? I am sorry, man, but that is just not going to happen.

Bama
Clemson
UGA
LSU
Ohio State
Florida
Texas A&M
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida State
Michigan
Auburn

Those are just schools on the top of my head that have significant advantages over us. It's just not realistic to expect to outrecruit or recruit on those teams' levels consistently.

What we need to do is consistently have top 20 classes with good players at key positions that fit what a good coaching staff wants to do.

The only way to have half of our roster be 4 stars or better is to go full Hugh Freeze.

[ShotgunDawg]

So... you want us to consistently be a top 12 recruiter? I am sorry, man, but that is just not going to happen.

Bama
Clemson
UGA
LSU
Ohio State
Florida
Texas A&M
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida State
Michigan
Auburn

And so. It's just not realistic to expect to outrecruit or recruit on those teams' levels consistently.

You don't want us too?

[MetEdDawg]

So... you want us to consistently be a top 12 recruiter? I am sorry, man, but that is just not going to happen.

Bama
Clemson
UGA
LSU
Ohio State
Florida
Texas A&M
Texas
Oklahoma
Florida State
Michigan
Auburn

And so. It's just not realistic to expect to outrecruit or recruit on those teams' levels consistently.

Exactly. It's not like we don't want to be one of these teams. But realistically we aren't even remotely close to the prowess of these teams.

The dollars required to get into this territory are far beyond what our university has and what our alumni are willing to shell out. People on here have said repeatedly that it's not a money issue. That's a damn lie to make themselves feel better. We will always have a ceiling unless we can find a way to put $20-30 million more into athletics per year. That's just the way it works.

Realistically we can aim for Top 20 at our current level. But it gets very exponential from that point on. The growth required to go from 20 to 15 is a lot more than the growth from 40 to 25. We are never going to recruit at those levels until we get substantial, sustainable, yearly capital investment far beyond what we do now.

[Covercorner2]

You don't want us too?

Yes, but there are a lot of things in this world I want that I am realistic and understand I will probably never obtain.

[Covercorner2]

Exactly. It's not like we don't want to be one of these teams. But realistically we aren't even remotely close to the prowess of these teams.

The dollars required to get into this territory are far beyond what our university has and what our alumni are willing to shell out. People on here have said repeatedly that it's not a money issue. That's a damn lie to make themselves feel better. We will always have a ceiling unless we can find a way to put $20-30 million more into athletics per year. That's just the way it works.

Realistically we can aim for Top 20 at our current level. But it gets very exponential from that point on. The growth required to go from 20 to 15 is a lot more than the growth from 40 to 25. We are never going to recruit at those levels until we get substantial, sustainable, yearly capital investment far beyond what we do now.

It's not just money, though. We don't have the tradition, clout, town, state, etc. to compete. It's not a "poor old State" take, it's simply an honest take. Obviously you don't just accept those facts and throw in the towel. You work harder than the others to try to even the playing field, but you also have to be realistic. Otherwise you will never be satisfied or you end up on probation.

You can win big at Mississippi State without having top 10 classes every year. It happened in 2014. I know we lost to Ole Miss and Bama, but damn we went to the Orange Bowl and didn't nuke the program in the process...

[Cowbell]

It's not just money, though. We don't have the tradition, clout, town, state, etc. to compete. It's not a "poor old State" take, it's simply an honest take. Obviously you don't just accept those facts and throw in the towel. You work harder than the others to try to even the playing field, but you also have to be realistic. Otherwise you will never be satisfied or you end up on probation.

You can win big at Mississippi State without having top 10 classes every year. It happened in 2014. I know we lost to Ole Miss and Bama, but damn we went to the Orange Bowl and didn't nuke the program in the process...

Dude you deserve some rep! Really good take. 100% agree.

[Pipedream]

It's not just money, though. We don't have the tradition, clout, town, state, etc. to compete. It's not a "poor old State" take, it's simply an honest take. Obviously you don't just accept those facts and throw in the towel. You work harder than the others to try to even the playing field, but you also have to be realistic. Otherwise you will never be satisfied or you end up on probation.

You can win big at Mississippi State without having top 10 classes every year. It happened in 2014. I know we lost to Ole Miss and Bama, but damn we went to the Orange Bowl and didn't nuke the program in the process...

So we have to define what winning "big" is here because I think that disconnect is what is driving this conversation. Can we win 10 games recruiting like we have in the past 10 years and look to be for the immediate future (i.e. top 25 average class)? Absolutely. No question about it. Can we win the West recruiting like that? Absolutely not. It's just that simple. If everyone is ok with the fact that there is a hard ceiling on the program because of the recruiting aspect then I think that's a healthy way to view things, but if you're like me and others who strive and hope and want for more than that then it's really difficult to accept that 10 wins is the absolute best we can be. If the question is posed-"how does State win the west?"-the answer is-you have to have a roster comprised of 43+ 4/5* recruits. This isn't some crazy number people are just making up out of thin air-there's science behind it.

[Covercorner2]

So we have to define what winning "big" is here because I think that disconnect is what is driving this conversation. Can we win 10 games recruiting like we have in the past 10 years and look to be for the immediate future (i.e. top 25 average class)? Absolutely. No question about it. Can we win the West recruiting like that? Absolutely not. It's just that simple. If everyone is ok with the fact that there is a hard ceiling on the program because of the recruiting aspect then I think that's a healthy way to view things, but if you're like me and others who strive and hope and want for more than that then it's really difficult to accept that 10 wins is the absolute best we can be. If the question is posed-"how does State win the west?"-the answer is-you have to have a roster comprised of 43+ 4/5* recruits. This isn't some crazy number people are just making up out of thin air-there's science behind it.

Absolutely not? We were 6 points from winning the West in 2014....

But, with that said, yes, I would be OK with 10 win seasons and NY6 bowl games....

[msstate7]

So we have to define what winning "big" is here because I think that disconnect is what is driving this conversation. Can we win 10 games recruiting like we have in the past 10 years and look to be for the immediate future (i.e. top 25 average class)? Absolutely. No question about it. Can we win the West recruiting like that? Absolutely not. It's just that simple. If everyone is ok with the fact that there is a hard ceiling on the program because of the recruiting aspect then I think that's a healthy way to view things, but if you're like me and others who strive and hope and want for more than that then it's really difficult to accept that 10 wins is the absolute best we can be. If the question is posed-"how does State win the west?"-the answer is-you have to have a roster comprised of 43+ 4/5* recruits. This isn't some crazy number people are just making up out of thin air-there's science behind it.

Or you could get incredibly lucky with pretty much all your 4-stars hitting and get guys like slay, banks, McKinney, sweat, dak, Preston smith, Jenkins, etc, on the same team. Even then, we'd need need some stars to line up. So, yeah, your path is much more likely, but I think both are extreme long shots

[Covercorner2]

Or you could get incredibly lucky with pretty much all your 4-stars hitting and get guys like slay, banks, McKinney, sweat, dak, Preston smith, Jenkins, etc, on the same team. Even then, we'd need need some stars to line up. So, yeah, your path is much more likely, but I think both are extreme long shots

At State you have a better chance of getting "lucky" with top 20-25 classes than having multiple consecutive years of top 10-12 classes (without going on probation).

[Pollodawg]

Why, oh why, can our fans never be happy? Why do we hate ourselves?

[msstate7]

I think Mullen had a great idea to offset the talent disadvantage with experience, red shirting. I hope we keep it

[Turfdawg67]

He will never figure out what you are referring to, Ari. Some people wonder why there was another recruiting thread created.. The reason was because a few posters hijacked this thread for their own personal agenda, and you had to scroll through so much unrelated crap to get to the actual pertinent information on 2020 MSU football recruiting.

Where is this "other recruiting thread" you speak of? That sounds like the one I'd like to read.

[Jarius]

We don’t have to recruit in the top 12. We have to hit on our targets at the right position. We have to have a good quarterback. We have to have good receivers. We have to be good up front on defense and adequate up front offensively. Everyone else can be masked to an extent if you are good at those positions in today’s game.

[msstate7]

We don’t have to recruit in the top 12. We have to hit on our targets at the right position. We have to have a good quarterback. We have to have good receivers. We have to be good up front on defense and adequate up front offensively. Everyone else can be masked to an extent if you are good at those positions in today’s game.

Even then, we'd have to hope auburn, aTm, LSU, and Bama miss on those positions bc they'll have much better supporting casts and depth bc of recruiting success

[BrunswickDawg]

Even then, we'd have to hope auburn, aTm, LSU, and Bama miss on those positions bc they'll have much better supporting casts and depth bc of recruiting success

Again, our play against 3 of those 4 schools over the past 5 years shows that they don't have a better supporting cast because of their recruiting success. They have been continually ranked higher, and yet we are 4-1 against A&M, 3-2 against Auburn and 2-3 against LSU (with 2 losses that could have been wins). So, where is this mythical proof that they are so far beyond us that we can't compete with our current recruiting? Can we improve our recruiting? Always. And Moorhead has been showing that so far.

[Pipedream]

Even then, we'd have to hope auburn, aTm, LSU, and Bama miss on those positions bc they'll have much better supporting casts and depth bc of recruiting success

Yes, you can be a really good team with this formula, but you aren't winning the SEC West unless you have a certain number of blue chip prospects. It hasn't been done since 2006 Arkansas and only 3 times in almost 30 years. Lighting would have to strike the same spot about 6 times in a row. The fact that everything lined up for us so well in 2014 and we still couldn't get it done just shows how near impossible it is (with the current recruiting performance). I think we are recruiting well and taking some chances on guys that have great upside, but the math/science is indisputable on what kind of raw talent it takes to win the West and if anyone is arguing against it they're essentially shaking their fist at the sun.

[msstate7]

Again, our play against 3 of those 4 schools over the past 5 years shows that they don't have a better supporting cast because of their recruiting success. They have been continually ranked higher, and yet we are 4-1 against A&M, 3-2 against Auburn and 2-3 against LSU (with 2 losses that could have been wins). So, where is this mythical proof that they are so far beyond us that we can't compete with our current recruiting? Can we improve our recruiting? Always. And Moorhead has been showing that so far.

LSU 0-1
Auburn 1-0
aTm 1-0

Not sure what Mullen's record has to do with it. So far, Moorhead is 2-1 vs that group... hopefully he can keep it up

[DancingRabbit]

Seems like this thread is getting off track again.

[Jarius]

Even then, we'd have to hope auburn, aTm, LSU, and Bama miss on those positions bc they'll have much better supporting casts and depth bc of recruiting success

We are beating Auburn, LSU, and A&M on a regular basis right now without doing what I mentioned. Alabama is the problem and to beat them you need what I just mentioned and some luck. We aren’t ever recruiting in the top 12 consistently so that plan can be thrown out the window. You have to find a different way and get lucky. Go all in on the most important positions.

[BrunswickDawg]

LSU 0-1
Auburn 1-0
aTm 1-0

Not sure what Mullen's record has to do with it. So far, Moorhead is 2-1 vs that group... hopefully he can keep it up

Two reasons - it goes to the overall state of the program, and 5 years encompasses the eligibility window for most of the players currently on the roster. But, hey, if you want to just focus on Moorhead fine - he's 2-2 against the teams we apparently can't compete with. Still doesn't help your argument.

[msstate7]

Two reasons - it goes to the overall state of the program, and 5 years encompasses the eligibility window for most of the players currently on the roster. But, hey, if you want to just focus on Moorhead fine - he's 2-2 against the teams we apparently can't compete with. Still doesn't help your argument.

What's your record prediction against that group for 2019? Just curious... I say 0-4

[Irondawg]

So back to a question I asked before we got off topic. How concerned should we be about J. Brown going to the Ole Miss cookout last weekend instead of ours when he's committed to MSU?

[BrunswickDawg]

What's your record prediction against that group for 2019? Just curious... I say 0-4

2-2 - I think we take A&M and LSU. And no, I'm not going to bet you.

[msstate7]

2-2 - I think we take A&M and LSU. And no, I'm not going to bet you.

Haha. I think that's awfully optimistic though. I think we'll be a touchdown (or more) dog in all. I think all 4 are head and shoulders better, but the lesser 2 are road games.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Haha. I think that's awfully optimistic though. I think we'll be a touchdown (or more) dog in all. I think all 4 are head and shoulders better, but the lesser 2 are road games.

None of those teams are head and shoulders better than us except Bama. And that one is at home. So even you analytics guys have to say that helps us in that game. Other teams have problems too. LSU cant throw, A&M is a constant underachiever and Auburn is a wild card with a bad OL.

[msstate7]

None of those teams are head and shoulders better than us except Bama. And that one is at home. So even you analytics guys have to say that helps us in that game. Other teams have problems too. LSU cant throw, A&M is a constant underachiever and Auburn is a wild card with a bad OL.

Same site on main board (#15 thread) that says we have outstanding LBs and secondary says auburn has #5 oline in oline strength.

We can argue in that thread, Bucky... sorry recruiting guys

[Pipedream]

None of those teams are head and shoulders better than us except Bama. And that one is at home. So even you analytics guys have to say that helps us in that game. Other teams have problems too. LSU cant throw, A&M is a constant underachiever and Auburn is a wild card with a bad OL.

I'm just kind of confused-is the question "can we be competitive with the top schools in the division with our current recruiting profile"-that answer is yes outside of Bama, but to win the West you have to beat all or all but 1(sometimes) and we haven't shown we can do that. If y'all wanna talk about how recruiting rankings can overrate traditional powers, have at it. There's a plethora of examples of that happening every year. Recruiting at an elite level isn't a sure fire ticket to winning your league, but it does get you in the room. It's prerequisite. We can't get in the room bc of where we recruit, which is part of the reason we are always underrated.

BTW-early average spread projections for the games mentioned(per S&P+ & Massey Composite)
Aub -3.85
LSU -1.95
A&M -1.9
Bama -11.25

On average you'd expect to win 1.45 of these 4 games which means there's a 45% chance of going 2-2. I'd probably bet on 1-3.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I'm just kind of confused-is the question "can we be competitive with the top schools in the division with our current recruiting profile"-that answer is yes outside of Bama, but to win the West you have to beat all or all but 1(sometimes) and we haven't shown we can do that. If y'all wanna talk about how recruiting rankings can overrate traditional powers, have at it. There's a plethora of examples of that happening every year. Recruiting at an elite level isn't a sure fire ticket to winning your league, but it does get you in the room. It's prerequisite. We can't get in the room bc of where we recruit, which is part of the reason we are always underrated.

BTW-early average spread projections for the games mentioned(per S&P+ & Massey Composite)
Aub -3.85
LSU -1.95
A&M -1.9
Bama -11.25

On average you'd expect to win 1.45 of these 4 games which means there's a 45% chance of going 2-2. I'd probably bet on 1-3.

Bama skews the division so bad. Take out Bama in the West & we'd have a legit chance 1 out of every 3-4 years to realistically compete for the West. With Bama running the way they are winning the division is just damn near impossible.

[msstate7]

Bama skews the division so bad. Take out Bama in the West & we'd have a legit chance 1 out of every 3-4 years to realistically compete for the West. With Bama running the way they are winning the division is just damn near impossible.

Which is why the realistic goal should be NY6, not sec imo

[Ifyouonlyknew]

Which is why the realistic goal should be NY6, not sec imo

I don't disagree.

[Pipedream]

Bama skews the division so bad. Take out Bama in the West & we'd have a legit chance 1 out of every 3-4 years to realistically compete for the West. With Bama running the way they are winning the division is just damn near impossible.

I agree and I also agree that a NY6 bowl is the ceiling of the program right now, but I don't think you can hope/assume for a Bama dropoff when Saban leaves. Last 30 seasons they've lost 2 or fewer games 13 times. The 30 seasons before that it happened 20 times. 33 of their last 60 seasons have ended with 2 or fewer losses. They're going to be a national title contending team AT LEAST every other year. That spans 8 different coaches for them. It's just who they are. They've been remarkably consistent under Saban, but I don't think they're going to drop back to being A&M or Auburn when he leaves.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I agree and I also agree that a NY6 bowl is the ceiling of the program right now, but I don't think you can hope/assume for a Bama dropoff when Saban leaves. Last 30 seasons they've lost 2 or fewer games 13 times. The 30 seasons before that it happened 20 times. 33 of their last 60 seasons have ended with 2 or fewer losses. They're going to be a national title contending team AT LEAST every other year. That spans 8 different coaches for them. It's just who they are. They've been remarkably consistent under Saban, but I don't think they're going to drop back to being A&M or Auburn when he leaves.

Depends on the coach. From Stallings to Saban they ran through 3 mediocre coaches. You can't just assume anybody can keep the train rolling.

[1bigdawg]

It took Dabo Swinney years to build Clemson. In his first several years, they were near the bottom of ACC recruiting. Then he had a couple of good seasons and recruiting picked up. Then he had a couple of great seasons and recruiting followed so that now they compete with Alabama.

Mullen was following a similar trajectory and could have succeeded except for 1) his constant job seeking and 2) his loyalty to the "country club" coaches. If JoeMo picks up where he left off as a recruiter and if he is a great coach, we could follow Clemson's progression and be competitive for the SEC.

BTW: I don't have the figures for Clemson's athletic budget, but they were not listed in the top 25 in a 247 sports article. We were number 32, so there is not that big a difference in financial resources. Also, they are a similarly sized school in a better, but not that much better, location.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

It took Dabo Swinney years to build Clemson. In his first several years, they were near the bottom of ACC recruiting. Then he had a couple of good seasons and recruiting picked up. Then he had a couple of great seasons and recruiting followed so that now they compete with Alabama.

Mullen was following a similar trajectory and could have succeeded except for 1) his constant job seeking and 2) his loyalty to the "country club" coaches. If JoeMo picks up where he left off as a recruiter and if he is a great coach, we could follow Clemson's progression and be competitive for the SEC.

BTW: I don't have the figures for Clemson's athletic budget, but they were not listed in the top 25 in a 247 sports article. We were number 32, so there is not that big a difference in financial resources. Also, they are a similarly sized school in a better, but not that much better, location.

The biggest problem with the Clemson model for MSU is that we're fighting 4 Top 12 recruiters in our division & 6 Top 15 recruiters in our conference. Clemson only have 2 other Top 20 recruiters in their entire conference. That makes it a lot easier to slow climb up the recruiting rankings while still being able to win big on the field. What clemson did to offset the lack of top 5-10 recruiting was hit on elite college QB's the last decade. They went from Tahj Boyd to Desean Watson to Trevor Lawrence & will have DJ Uiagalelei waiting in the wings after him.

[Pipedream]

Depends on the coach. From Stallings to Saban they ran through 3 mediocre coaches. You can't just assume anybody can keep the train rolling.

They've lost 2 or less games every other year for 60 years. Hard for me to imagine that train is coming off the tracks.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

They've lost 2 or less games every other year for 60 years. Hard for me to imagine that train is coming off the tracks.

Yes & between 97 & 07 they lost more than 2 games every year. Again they better hire the right coach or the machine won't just keep running. Bama is a premiere program but all premiere programs need premiere coaches or they won't run properly.

[ShotgunDawg]

Yes & between 97 & 07 they lost more than 2 games every year. Again they better hire the right coach or the machine won't just keep running. Bama is a premiere program but all premiere programs need premiere coaches or they won't run properly.

issue is that unless you're an elite coach, they won't keep you very long. So they may make a few bad hires, but it'll only open up about a 5-7 year window before they find the right guy again.

[Bothrops]

So back to a question I asked before we got off topic. How concerned should we be about J. Brown going to the Ole Miss cookout last weekend instead of ours when he's committed to MSU?

I heard someone say that they weren't necessarily smitten with OM visit. I can't verify that at all, it was just quoted from a site, and was translated by mouth.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Alright so how concerned are we that J. Brown went to the OM cookout instead of ours when he's a commit?

If he went to any other school, no biggie. But when they get involved like this, you know there is smoke.

[maroonmania]

They've lost 2 or less games every other year for 60 years. Hard for me to imagine that train is coming off the tracks.

We don't need Bama to come off the tracks. We need them to drop from a Top 2 program EVERY year to like a Top 10-12 program so that we have a fighting chance. Basically right now you have to be a bonafide NC caliber team to have any shot to win the SEC West with Bama at their current level.

[msstate7]

Tulu on 96.7 in Philly this morning. Host asked him why he's headed to state and not LSU. Tulu said LSU is his school, but they haven't offered him yet. I immediately thought of shotgun... shotgun would've lost it on the kid (haha). Anyway, he talked about the upcoming Philly season and said state has a bright future. He was excited about being a dandy dozen. Nice little interview

[Scared_Hitless]

Tulu on 96.7 in Philly this morning. Host asked him why he's headed to state and not LSU. Tulu said LSU is his school, but they haven't offered him yet. I immediately thought of shotgun... shotgun would've lost it on the kid (haha). Anyway, he talked about the upcoming Philly season and said state has a bright future. He was excited about being a dandy dozen. Nice little interview

Luckily for us I doubt LSU offers unless they have some decommits. They already have 3 top tier WR commits. Never like to hear a kid say something like that though.

[ShotgunDawg]

Tulu on 96.7 in Philly this morning. Host asked him why he's headed to state and not LSU. Tulu said LSU is his school, but they haven't offered him yet. I immediately thought of shotgun... shotgun would've lost it on the kid (haha). Anyway, he talked about the upcoming Philly season and said state has a bright future. He was excited about being a dandy dozen. Nice little interview

I love that I'm in your dome at odd times.

Yes, I wish less Mississippi kids thought of an out of state school as being their school.

[msstate7]

I love that I'm in your dome at odd times.

Yes, I wish less Mississippi kids thought of an out of state school as being their school.

First thing this morning, shotgun... first thing lol


It sucks kids see us as inferior option to the big name schools, but not sure there's anything that can be done about it so I'm not gonna get bent out of shape about it.

[ShotgunDawg]

First thing this morning, shotgun... first thing lol


It sucks kids see us as inferior option to the big name schools, but not sure there's anything that can be done about it so I'm not gonna get bent out of shape about it.

Just keep winning.

[msbulldog]

Just keep winning.

Absolutely!

[justwin]

If we take 5 wrs, you think we get both Adams & walley from diberville to go with ducking, Heath, and griffin?

I really think walley is a college wr star. How do you feel about him?

Adams is now a 3 star. Seems like if we throw 30+ tds this year to convince him to come, he was commuted once before. Needs to witness us throw successfully

Ari ~ bump. would appreciate your thoughts on these two WR targets &, of course, MSUs chances to sign them?

[Bothrops]

Luckily for us I doubt LSU offers unless they have some decommits. They already have 3 top tier WR commits. Never like to hear a kid say something like that though.

They could have a decommitment at WR. I think one is from California and one is from DC.

[Ifyouonlyknew]

LSU is no threat to Tulu.

[Ari Gold]

Ari ~ bump. would appreciate your thoughts on these two WR targets &, of course, MSUs chances to sign them?


I don’t see both in the 2020 class. Hearing Adams may have some qualifying issues. I do think Walley ends up in the 2020 class..

[KOdawg1]

I don’t see both in the 2020 class. Hearing Adams may have some qualifying issues. I do think Walley ends up in the 2020 class..

Let's get Adams set up at Co-Lin then

[msu15]

Cole Smith official and will count towards our 25 scholarships for 2020.

[chef dixon]

IYOK, what are our chances of flipping OU commit Edgerrin Cooper? Saw he got an offer

[KOdawg1]

IYOK, what are our chances of flipping OU commit Edgerrin Cooper? Saw he got an offer

I'm not so sure we have the room with Wheat a likely Bulldog commit. Numbers are getting tight. Unless Cooper is just better than what we have committed now.

IYOK or Ari, between Cooper, Wheat, McDonald, Brown, and Groce, will we only take 3? And if so, which 3 are the best?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

IYOK, what are our chances of flipping OU commit Edgerrin Cooper? Saw he got an offer

They're still on him & he's still listening. I expect he'll take an OV & we'll go from there.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Groce was at the cookout this past weekend so I would assume we are actively recruiting him