Braves

[msstate7]

Since this thread has 16 thousand hits il add that I miss the old Dale Murphy, Bob Horner, Biff Pocaroba, Jerry Royster days.

I went to the NBC game of the week one Saturday BRaves hosting the Reds with Vin Scully and Joe Garagiola on hand for play by play.

Dave Parker hit a HR for the Reds and Pete Rose went 0 for 5 with five ground outs to the 2nd baseman, but I got to see him play. Dale Murphy hit a double off the roc field wall for an rbi.

Must've been 1985 or so.

I grew up watching those teams in the 80s and loved watching them play. This year's team is very fun to watch... Well until we have a late lead and we're depending on our bullpen

[BoomBoom]

I've never said his decisions weren't bad. My point has always been that all managers make decisions that are questionable...if the players make the plays then it's seen as a good move but when everyone that's brought in sucks it's easy to question those moves. I also agree that his timing of when certain guys are used can raise some eyebrows. I do disagree about using the closer early, in this instance, because who would he bring in later? Grilli literally is the only guy that is reliable to do his job.

So once again...even with Fredi's poor decision making this year a good pen would have this team in 1st place. That is a fact. That's my point. I have no hidden agenda. I've been clear since about halfway thru last season how I've felt. When fredi makes a stupid move THAT COSTS A WIN I've criticized him...but when the pen can't hold a 3-4 run lead no matter who he runs out there then I don't see how that's on him.

I'll ask you the same question I asked earlier...what manager would have a team above .500 with a +5 bullpen ERA?

yes, with a better pen they'd be above .500........they've done that in past years. and then blown it when it counted because their manager doesn't know how to take advantage of matchups.

yes, all managers make questionable decisions, and often get criticized either way. but SOME managers make decisions beyond that, unquestionably stupid moves. and when a manager is that bad, there's always those out there covering for them. He is the BJ Upton of managers, you're only embarrassing yourself by defending him.

and oh, you disagree about using the closer early. so you just have no idea how a bullpen is supposed to be managed. figures. explains everything.

[shoeless joe]

yes, with a better pen they'd be above .500........they've done that in past years. and then blown it when it counted because their manager doesn't know how to take advantage of matchups.

yes, all managers make questionable decisions, and often get criticized either way. but SOME managers make decisions beyond that, unquestionably stupid moves. and when a manager is that bad, there's always those out there covering for them. He is the BJ Upton of managers, you're only embarrassing yourself by defending him.

and oh, you disagree about using the closer early. so you just have no idea how a bullpen is supposed to be managed. figures. explains everything.

You say I am defending him, when I'm really ONLY defending his actions in regards to the pen...nothing else. And I'm really not defending him as much as I'm being realistic with placing blame. You have your mind made up on what you think and have a response ready without even reading my posts. I disagree a good bit with mstate7 but he typically has an informed, and sometimes emotional, response that brings pertinent information to the discussion. I would enjoy a good back and forth if you could do the same.

As far as how a bullpen is supposed to work:
Successful pens have sevrefal thing in common....defined roles being tops on the list. Also, having guys that can get any hitter out L or R. A situational lefty that can consistently retire righty''s can solidify any pen; a la venters, o'flaherty, or even one of the best the braves ever had at that in remlinger. And of course a solid closer is needed... Closer by committee never works long term. And even with that type set up one thing HAS to happen to ensure long term success: starters have to eat up innings and get outs. If the pen is covering 4 innings a nite then it's eventually going to wear down. I will be interested in your examples of a closer that comes in in the 6th or 7th

And for the thousandth time...I think there are a myriad of things to complain about when it comes to fredi, even his use of pitchers in previous years and post season. But this year the bullpen is not on him. He hasn't walked one hitter or hunt one slider all year...but yet they occurr every inning, it seems, when he goes to the pen for someone other than grilli. And even he had given up more runs than would be prefered.

[msstate7]

Cunniff's last 3 appearances...

Vs Arizona = 0.2 ip 0 h 0 bb 0 er 2 k
Vs Pitt = 0.2 ip 0 h 0 bb 0 er 1 k
Vs Pitt = 2.0 ip 0 h 0 bb 0 er 2 k

Maybe this kid is coming on.

I really think we'll see aardsma and moylan get promoted within the week. Who do you think gets sent down/cut?

[msstate7]

@DOBrienAJC
#Braves released LH Donnie Veal, who was DFA'd last week

Triple-A #Braves activated newly acquired LH Dana Eveland, and Kelly Johnson begins rehab assignment at Gwinnett tonight.

[BoomBoom]

You say I am defending him, when I'm really ONLY defending his actions in regards to the pen...nothing else. And I'm really not defending him as much as I'm being realistic with placing blame. You have your mind made up on what you think and have a response ready without even reading my posts. I disagree a good bit with mstate7 but he typically has an informed, and sometimes emotional, response that brings pertinent information to the discussion. I would enjoy a good back and forth if you could do the same.

As far as how a bullpen is supposed to work:
Successful pens have sevrefal thing in common....defined roles being tops on the list. Also, having guys that can get any hitter out L or R. A situational lefty that can consistently retire righty''s can solidify any pen; a la venters, o'flaherty, or even one of the best the braves ever had at that in remlinger. And of course a solid closer is needed... Closer by committee never works long term. And even with that type set up one thing HAS to happen to ensure long term success: starters have to eat up innings and get outs. If the pen is covering 4 innings a nite then it's eventually going to wear down. I will be interested in your examples of a closer that comes in in the 6th or 7th

And for the thousandth time...I think there are a myriad of things to complain about when it comes to fredi, even his use of pitchers in previous years and post season. But this year the bullpen is not on him. He hasn't walked one hitter or hunt one slider all year...but yet they occurr every inning, it seems, when he goes to the pen for someone other than grilli. And even he had given up more runs than would be prefered.

I don't disagree with anything in your 2nd paragraph. But you went full retard in the 3rd. let's put it this way: managing the lineup and pen for good matchups is not dependent on resultant small sample size results. "it worked out" isn't a defense for bad managing, nor is "they all suck anyway". managing into a bad matchup is bad management, regardless of results. you don't seem to agree with that, and i have no idea why. you sound like a Croom defender saying that if players just made their blocks then the offense would work. bad management makes it HARDER for players to produce.

the "results" argument also ignores confidence and projection. putting players into poor matchups leads to poor results, which can hurt their confidence and cause overall poorer performance. as to projection, either Fredi or the entire team has a weird mix of ignoring recent results based on past performance (see Avilan last year), or ignoring past results and expected talent level for short term good results (often against inferior opposition) (see Cody Martin or Sugar Ray Merrimon). it's weird to be wrong on BOTH sides of that issue at the same time.

also, it's great to have a lefty that can get out righties, or so forth, but just wishing for that doesn't make it so. when you don't have guys that can do that, don't manage as if you have guys that can do that! that aint rocket science, but you seem to object to calling it bad management.

while the sabermetrics would say to occaisionally use a closer in the 6th, very few managers would do it as that part of the order (or the meat of the order if that's not up in the 6th) is guaranteed to come up again. that applies a little in the 7th too, but in some situations (say 2 outs, bases loaded, #1-3 hitter up) it would be preferrable, as the closer could close that inning and pitch the next, then someone else could face the bottom of the order in the 9th. maybe your closer blows the game, or maybe your other guy blows it in a much more favorable situation for him in the 9th. either way, it's the better matchup, which is the entire point of managing.

[Really Clark?]

Nice first pick. Very high upside LHP. Maybe we can get him signed.

[msstate7]

Nice first pick. Very high upside LHP. Maybe we can get him signed.

Saw this on Braves' board. Not sure if true, but poster usually knows what he's talking about...


Said he only gave his medical and only visited with atlanta. Was either atlanta or he was going to college. Said he's been throwing for weeks and looks great. Up to him when he makes it but thinks he's gonna go quickly. Said his back injury is the only reason he fell to Atl.

[msstate7]

Miller pulled with 95 pitches. Hope we don't regret not letting him pitch 8th. Questionable call, but CJ got hit

[msstate7]

Miller pulled with 95 pitches. Hope we don't regret not letting him pitch 8th. Questionable call, but CJ got hit

Here we go...

Sd with leadoff double on Johnson. This after 1st 2 were on base in 7th. Fredi shunned the bunt and double play.

[msstate7]

Here we go...

Sd with leadoff double on Johnson. This after 1st 2 were on base in 7th. Fredi shunned the bunt and double play.

Padres only plate 1. Need to score here

[msstate7]

Blown save by grilli. INCREDIBLELY stupid to not bunt in the bottom of the 7th with 1st 2 on and Maybin up. Get that bunt down and ff is up with 2nd and 3rd with 1 out. Fredi is just dumb

[msstate7]

I just can't believe fredi did these 2 moves...

1. Not letting miller go out for 8th

2. Not bunting with Maybin. If you bunt and they walk ff, so what? It's bases loaded with 1 out for markakis.

Miller was cruising. Fredi just thinks Johnson and grilli are lock down. Hey fredi, they aren't! Miller was the best option. Get grilli out there with 2-run lead bc he seems to give up 1 every appearance.

Yeah, I'm pissed at fredi again

[shoeless joe]

I just can't believe fredi did these 2 moves...

1. Not letting miller go out for 8th

2. Not bunting with Maybin. If you bunt and they walk ff, so what? It's bases loaded with 1 out for markakis.

Miller was cruising. Fredi just thinks Johnson and grilli are lock down. Hey fredi, they aren't! Miller was the best option. Get grilli out there with 2-run lead bc he seems to give up 1 every appearance.

Yeah, I'm pissed at fredi again

I got off the lake just in time to turn on the tv and see grilli throw the ball into center. I then got on here to see what fredi did wrong.

Based on what you're saying I would be pissed If I was miller. Knowing the struggles of the pen you gotta let your horse do his thing.

[msstate7]

I got off the lake just in time to turn on the tv and see grilli throw the ball into center. I then got on here to see what fredi did wrong.

Based on what you're saying I would be pissed If I was miller. Knowing the struggles of the pen you gotta let your horse do his thing.

Miller had 95 pitches and was rolling. No excuse to pull him for our pen. No excuse

[msstate7]

I got off the lake just in time to turn on the tv and see grilli throw the ball into center. I then got on here to see what fredi did wrong.

Based on what you're saying I would be pissed If I was miller. Knowing the struggles of the pen you gotta let your horse do his thing.

Haha.., you know I'll keep you posted on fredi.

[msstate7]

We've given up with Martin in the game. We'll see Kimbrel get the save and bj scored the tying run.

Cody Martin shouldn't be anywhere near an mlb team

[msstate7]

We've given up with Martin in the game. We'll see Kimbrel get the save and bj scored the tying run.

Cody Martin shouldn't be anywhere near an mlb team

Told ya. I've watched this team enough to know. Running Martin in the game should be a firable offense

[BoomBoom]

Miller had 95 pitches and was rolling. No excuse to pull him for our pen. No excuse

Flow chart Fredi strikes again. The sad thing is how predictable it is. Every season, no matter the personnel, he makes that move. No idea what he is doing.

[msstate7]

10:49 PM
@KevinMcAlpin
Cody Martin posted a 1.54 ERA (2 ER/11.2 IP) w/14 K over his first 10 appearances.

In 11 appearances since, 9.90 ERA (11 ER/10 IP) w/10 K