Ross Mitchell

[Will James]

Yeah, but limiting it to just innings that you start and finish really has no meaning whatsoever.

All of this is why I like to just look at stats that measure hitter vs pitcher.

[The Croom Diaries]

This is another meme. In his 15 SEC appearances he's only gone more than 3 innings 3 times.

Clever.

He has gone AT LEAST 3.0 innings 5 times in SEC play. If you count the Govorner's Cup ((against a SEC team (RPI #18) where he went 6)) it's 6 in 16. He also went 6 against Memphis (RPI #96), 4.2 vs. Austin Peay (RPI #29), 4.0 vs. Southern Miss, 3.0 vs. Central ARK (RPI #81), 3.0 vs. St. Joe's, 6.0 vs. Samford,

He has gone at least 2.0 innings another 3 times in SEC play. So out of 15 SEC appearances, he has gone at least 2 innings 8 times. But look at those non-conference games. 32.2 IP over the course of 7 games and 4 of them were vs. top 100 teams, 2 of them vs. top 50 teams....and we won 6 of those 7 (UCA).

[The Croom Diaries]

Yeah, but limiting it to just innings that you start and finish really has no meaning whatsoever.

Doesn't it eliminate the "luck" factor? If you are starting and finishing your own inning, then there is not another pitcher to inherit your runners and let them score.

To this point, pitcher A may leave 2 on with 2 out in Game 1 and pitcher C comes in and allows both of them to score. Then in Game 2 pitcher B leaves 2 on with 2 out and the same pitcher C comes in and gets the out before either run scores.

[Will James]

You could MAYBE look at starting pitchers innings started and finished but even then I think it would be worthless. Any relief pitcher allowed to start and finish an inning will have limited earned runs. If a RP gets in any trouble they are replaced. Relief innings started AND finished yields nothing of value.

[The Croom Diaries]

You could MAYBE look at starting pitchers innings started and finished but even then I think it would be worthless. Any relief pitcher allowed to start and finish an inning will have limited earned runs. If a RP gets in any trouble they are replaced. Relief innings started AND finished yields nothing of value.

Sure it does. My point is that Ross is an innings eater and he puts up a bunch of zeros on the scoreboard. Girodo's started and finished innings don't have much value because he has 7 of them, but Mitchell has 24 plus all the non-conference games.

Mitchell typically comes in when the starter doesn't have it and he eats through the middle innings keeping the other team down allowing our offense a chance to come back or extend the lead in the game. That's his value. With our starting pitching which half the time struggles to get past the 4th or 5th inning, we need a guy to come in and give up 3 or 4, maybe more innings if we want a chance to win. Ross not only fills that role, but he does so without allowing hardly any runs....most of the time none.

I see your point about how the head coach will just lift a relief pitcher if he's in trouble or tiring so obviously if he finished an inning then he is doing well, but that also speaks to my point in that Ross is almost always doing well so Cohen doesn't have to take him out, he just keeps going and going and going..

[Todd4State]

Let me say it this way so we can all agree- ERA can be extremely misleading and never tells the entire story....example?

Holder ERA was over 3.00 earlier this year because of one bad outing in long relief that caused it to take a big climb. His ERA at that time was in no way indicative of the truly special closer he is.

I think you guys now see Will's point better, and that he is indeed correct- and he understands he can come off looking like a dick

Yes, ERA can be misleading. That's why even before Bill James was even born people were judging players with several stats grouped together. Traditionally it was W/L record, K/BB ratio and ERA and if it's a reliever it was saves. ERA is not and never was meant to be an all-encompassing stat. And I don't know anyone that judges a pitcher simply on ERA alone. Over the years, other stats have come along like WHIP and things like that.

I could say that Dave Kingman should have won the MVP in 1982 because he hit 37 home runs which lead the league. What I didn't tell you is he also led the league in strike outs and hit .204 on the year.

[Todd4State]

The bottom line is if we are truly trying to determine the value of a player, the best thing to use is WAR. You wouldn't use BABIP or ERA.

[Drugdog]

And the referee is starting his count: 1..... 2....... 3...... And the winner is NOT Will. Ding ding ding.
This was a loser leave the board for a week. Bye WJ.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

again, why not just start mitchell. He comes in after our starter has shit the bed and usually throws 5 innings or scoreless ball. Just start him, bring girardo or bracewell in for a couple of innings and then holder. Automatic W. Let Pollo take ross' role as a middle reliever.

hell, ross could throw 6 on friday and come back and give you 2 or 3 on sunday.

[CadaverDawg]

again, why not just start mitchell. He comes in after our starter has shit the bed and usually throws 5 innings or scoreless ball. Just start him, bring girardo or bracewell in for a couple of innings and then holder. Automatic W. Let Pollo take ross' role as a middle reliever.

hell, ross could throw 6 on friday and come back and give you 2 or 3 on sunday.

Because Ross is a "change of pace" guy. He would probably not be nearly as effective if he didn't follow a guy that brought it 90 mph or better. It's a lot easier to key in on a 82 mph fastball when you haven't seen anything harder that same day.

[The Croom Diaries]

The bottom line is if we are truly trying to determine the value of a player, the best thing to use is WAR. You wouldn't use BABIP or ERA.

We don't need to use any stat at all. We can just use our eyes. They say Ross is a great pitcher, one of the most valuable players on the team. He is a winner. End of story.

[Todd4State]

Because Ross is a "change of pace" guy. He would probably not be nearly as effective if he didn't follow a guy that brought it 90 mph or better. It's a lot easier to key in on a 82 mph fastball when you haven't seen anything harder that same day.

It can work both ways. See Jamie Moyer.

[CadaverDawg]

It can work both ways. See Jamie Moyer.

Not saying it can't...but I don't want to experiment with it for the first time in the post season, when we KNOW it works the way we've been using him.

[Will James]

And the referee is starting his count: 1..... 2....... 3...... And the winner is NOT Will. Ding ding ding.
This was a loser leave the board for a week. Bye WJ.

Lulz I've used nothing but statistical facts. It's logically impossible for me to be wrong or "the loser"

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Lulz I've used nothing but statistical facts. It's logically impossible for me to be wrong or "the loser"

statistically, renfroe is our best hitter with risp. I doubt a single person on this board wants him batting with the game on the line though. Stats are fun but dont mean much. Dead horse beaten.

[CadaverDawg]

statistically, renfroe is our best hitter with risp. I doubt a single person on this board wants him batting with the game on the line though. Stats are fun but dont mean much. Dead horse beaten.

Not to be an ass, but I DO want Renfroe up with the game on the line.

[Will James]

Not to be an ass, but I DO want Renfroe up with the game on the line.

+1

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Not to be an ass, but I DO want Renfroe up with the game on the line.

that is fine. I take Adam Frazier with the game on the line. All day, every day. Renfroe hasnt proven he can be clutch at all. Ever.

[CadaverDawg]

that is fine. I take Adam Frazier with the game on the line. All day, every day. Renfroe hasnt proven he can be clutch at all. Ever.

"at all. Ever." ? May want to rethink that.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

"at all. Ever." ? May want to rethink that.

he isnt. Since I brought it up a few weeks ago and took a ton of shit, I believe he is about 1 for 16 with RISP since then. He also only gets hits when it doesnt count. Why does he hit solo HRs in the 9th down 6 or up 4 all the time? Maybe it is a coincidence. He has had PLENTY of opportunity to prove me wrong the past month and hasnt. Without frazier, we get swept by OM and lose 2 of 3 to USC. Frazier is our leader.