Damn that Ross Mitchell sucked cock tonight.

[Will James]

Then your whole critique is on Cohen for bringing Ross in with runners on rather than Ross himself. Yet you lambast people for claiming Ross is one of the SEC's most effective pitchers saying we are afraid to criticize a baseball player.

If your point from the start was runners on when he comes in people would agree, but you keep changing your responses and blaming Ross rather than Cohen.

There are two issues. It's absolutely on Cohen on when pitchers come in. But when you are in the game giving up runs hurting other's pitchers ERA I'm going to state the obvious and say "Hey he has a low ERA, but there are 13 runs in SEC games alone he has given up (because Cohen brings in a contact pitcher with runners all over the pond) that are skewing his data."

The question of low ERA yet high opponents batting average and on base % can be answered by this. He has tons of innings logged, and I'm sure he has a very low ERA on just innings he has started. Ground ball pitchers are optimal and effective, just not when ducks are on the pond because balls in play means runs crossing the plate.

[Homedawg]

So let him start innings in long relief but use someone else to get out of jams. Which is my point. Again. When you come into jams your job is to get out of them. He's not been great at that because his doesn't K people. The reason we change pitchers is because the current one is on pace to let those runners score. What's the point of changing pitchers if the next guy lets them in.

I give up. The point is the reason his era is low is because he doesn't allow his runners score. Thats the the way it works!!! Lucky bastard.

[Todd4State]

Dont take it to the extreme ends Todd. A really low BABIP means some luck is involved not that it's "all luck and no talent". Lance Lynn had a high one. Cliff Lee had a high one. Max Scherzer had a high one. Matt Cain had a low one. It's not an insult.

What Im not saying: Mike Minor is just lucky that's all
what I am saying: With a low BABIP, Minors Numbers are improved based on the luck factor.

If you can't see the difference, which you seemingly can't, I don't know what to tell you.

Extremes? Come again?

Maybe you should take that up with the guy that chose a pitcher recovering from Tommy John surgery as their prime example of their stat being valid.


You are the one that said Minor was lucky is a stat, not an insult. I simply said it was just as insulting as saying Ross was lucky. I'm not sure what is so "extreme" about that?

[Will James]

The extremes as in looking on a spectrum. You act like I'm on the extreme saying oh its just luck. Where I'm in the middle saying BABIP just inflates or deflates the 'Real' stats of where a pitcher is.

[Todd4State]

There are two issues. It's absolutely on Cohen on when pitchers come in. But when you are in the game giving up runs hurting other's pitchers ERA I'm going to state the obvious and say "Hey he has a low ERA, but there are 13 runs in SEC games alone he has given up (because Cohen brings in a contact pitcher with runners all over the pond) that are skewing his data."

The question of low ERA yet high opponents batting average and on base % can be answered by this. He has tons of innings logged, and I'm sure he has a very low ERA on just innings he has started. Ground ball pitchers are optimal and effective, just not when ducks are on the pond because balls in play means runs crossing the plate.

No- those pitchers are hurting their own ERA by letting those runners on in the first place.

[swdawg]

This thread is so "SixPackSpeak".

[Will James]

No- those pitchers are hurting their own ERA by letting those runners on in the first place.

So if you are a middle reliever it's ok if your inherited runners score, just as long as you hitter doesn't? Not buying it.

[Todd4State]

The extremes as in looking on a spectrum. You act like I'm on the extreme saying oh its just luck. [I]Where I'm in the middle saying BABIP just inflates or deflates the 'Real' stats of where a pitcher is[/I].

Then why even use the stat? It seems to me to be sketchy at best. You're talking about some good pitchers that have some numbers all over the board that are without a doubt productive. When you have something that scattered, to me, it makes the stat unreliable.

[Todd4State]

So if you are a middle reliever it's ok if your inherited runners score, just as long as you hitter doesn't? Not buying it.

It's just as OK for the first pitcher to let them on and put the reliever in a shitty situation right? I'm not buying that.

If Ross comes in and gets a double play and minimizes the damage and keeps us in the game and keeps them from having a big inning (3 runs or more) then, yeah- he did an OK job. Would I prefer him to not allow his inherited runners to score? Of course. But let's face it, when runners are on and it's a jam, odds are good that the other team is going to get something out of it. If you don't believe me, look at the stats for situations with the bases loaded, runners on the corners, etc. whatever sitauation you want with less than two outs. You just don't want it to be a big inning.

That's what a middle reliever does- he minimizes damage. He gets you out of the inning and keeps you in the game.

And you know what? I guarantee you that every single time Ross has allowed an inherited runner to score- you could go up to whomever the pitcher was before him and he would say "You know what, it's my fault the guy was on in the first place."