2nd hand from the Admin

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Umm....have you ever thought that maybe we shouldn't hang on to these guys so long that they take us all the way back down to the bottom of the league before we fire them? My God, it is easy to see why we always have sucked and always will suck. Even the people that have seen the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN! Percho, what happens if Mullen wins 5 next year and then 3 the next? Keep holding on? I mean, surely that's the problem right? We aren't letting these coaches deep enough into the shitter to eventually miraculously climb out of it, right?

Ho. Ly. Smokes. Sometimes I just shake my head at the comments I read.

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Well instead of giving a coach a little over 6 years what do you think any given coach should be given? Three and a half to five years. The one we kept the longest was the King and even you I think would admit the King had a lot going against him the last couple of years. Maybe we should have kept him. Maybe it wasn't all his fault. Maybe the bottom will fall out if we keep CDM. I promise you that if we fire him in six more years we will be firing another one.

Would someone please post the Tommy West vid again.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Im still on the Mullen bandwagon - (Though one more Read option with Russell may do me in) - But this is the issue with me, assuming we lose this weekend, Mullen's SEC record will be 14-24; Croom's was 10-30;

Croom is widely considered the worst coach in our history. No one can argue that Croom inherited a terrible recruiting class from Jackie and overall the program was probably at it's lowest point. Mullen inherited the best recruiting class of the last decade and a roster that had multiple NFL draft picks and a QB that fit his offense extremely well.

If he ends the season with a 14-26 SEC record, how does he keep his job? He will have achieved a .8 SEC game win per season improvement from the worst coach in our history, while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

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Charley Shira disagrees.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

It's retarded to try and compare basketball to football- you can't. It's a different world in the SEC. SEC football = Big East basketball

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So, it should be even more cut throat then?

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Im still on the Mullen bandwagon - (Though one more Read option with Russell may do me in) - But this is the issue with me, assuming we lose this weekend, Mullen's SEC record will be 14-24; Croom's was 10-30;

Croom is widely considered the worst coach in our history. No one can argue that Croom inherited a terrible recruiting class from Jackie and overall the program was probably at it's lowest point. Mullen inherited the best recruiting class of the last decade and a roster that had multiple NFL draft picks and a QB that fit his offense extremely well.

If he ends the season with a 14-26 SEC record, how does he keep his job? He will have achieved a .8 SEC game win per season improvement from the worst coach in our history, while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

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Croom's wins over Bama and Auburn are discounted because they weren't national title contenders but Mullen gets a pass since he is beating these teams. Mullen raised the floor but also had help since now with the Espn deal SEC > any other conference in football. Playing in the SEC is better than playing in any other conference. This makes Mullen's recruiting easier since now we can offer Damian Williams in Jan and get him to flip. Mullen's teams are better than Crooms so we don't lose to La Tech but we do go to OT to beat them. We do go to Troy and complete a 4th down pass for a TD to win by 6. We do squeak one out against UAB.

But we don't lose them so now we can go to Birmingham and beat our chest over beating UK (no SEC wins), Ark (no SEC wins) and hopefully UM (home team almost ALWAYS WINS). We did beat the shit out of Alcorn and Troy this year so all is well.

Here is the problem that I see going forward - for schools like ours we have to do something different to be competitive - i.e. up tempo, spread you out, running QB type offense or big time power - milk the clock and play stanford level defense.

Right now, we don't have an identity. I thought we would be up tempo, spread you out and run our big damn QB all over you, or use Harvin speed sweeps or option plays with Dak and Lewis, it just hasn't happened. I swear our playbook has gotten smaller in year 5.

A part of me wants to chalk all of this up to Mullen trying to fit Russell into his offense because of all of the pressure of basically telling a Parade All American QB that has NFL size and arm to basically take a hike is simply something he couldn't do. Looking back, I wish he had, I think we would be further along as a program.

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Originally Posted by Percho

Well instead of giving a coach a little over 6 years what do you think any given coach should be given? Three and a half to five years. The one we kept the longest was the King and even you I think would admit the King had a lot going against him the last couple of years. Maybe we should have kept him. Maybe it wasn't all his fault. Maybe the bottom will fall out if we keep CDM. I promise you that if we fire him in six more years we will be firing another one.

Would someone please post the Tommy West vid again.

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We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

Charley Shira disagrees.

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I wasn't alive when he coached, so I guess I should say my lifetime. lol

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

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I disagree with this - he clearly cares. He wants to win. My concern is that when he is calling read option play calls with Russell at QB, he simply cannot call a game without a running QB. He seems to be unable to realize that when Russell is in the game - that a QB counter on 3rd and 3 is a bad play call.

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

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Originally Posted by stxdawg

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

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Very few coaches don't use a running QB now. Unless you are Bama or LSU people use their QB. Mobility is almost a necessity in college football.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

Every coach is different. Jackie is irrelevant in this matter.

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He has looked like he cared the last couple of games.

Look I am not a big Mullen supporter. He has not proven to me he will be a good to great head coach. I am just saying, at MSU it has been shown through the years that changing head coaches is not real successful in the over all betterment of the program.

I would like for CDM to do a search in all ranks of the game for a defense coach with a scheme for attacking the hurry up spread. To me that would start him toward being a good to great coach.

I believe he has our offense on the right track.

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Originally Posted by stxdawg

If it is decided that Dan is going to be our coach next year, we all just need to get behind him. It will hurt recruiting if their is dissention in our fan base. The bears will use it against us.

Also, please tell me what our offense will look like under some other new coach? We are putting together the type of talent to restore the kind of offense that Dan is comfortable running. With Dak in place as our QB for the next few years, I'd hate to see a new coach come in that mess up what he does best and that fits Dan's system.

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I agree with this, but I would like to see Dan do something with the team in the last 2 games to warrant being brought back. If he doesn't we will have a lot of fans that will just start saying the heck with it. I believe at this stage the fanbase just needs something good to happen to have a reason to believe Mullen can get things going back in a positive direction.

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Originally Posted by Percho

He has looked like he cared the last couple of games.

Look I am not a big Mullen supporter. He has not proven to me he will be a good to great head coach. I am just saying, at MSU it has been shown through the years that changing head coaches is not real successful in the over all betterment of the program.

I would like for CDM to do a search in all ranks of the game for a defense coach with a scheme for attacking the hurry up spread. To me that would start him toward being a good to great coach.

I believe he has our offense on the right track.

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It ALWAYS depends on who you change to. We've just historically not been good at hiring coaches because we've had even worse ADs over the years than coaches. But just think where Bama would be today had they stuck with Shula another year or 2 and had missed out on Saban. And they went through a number of coaching changes before they hit the jackpot.

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Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

......while OM fielded two of the worst bear teams of all time, Ky was terrible, worst AU team in 50 years, a terrible UPig program, and we got UT with Dooley. That is my biggest issue - he should be doing more. Being better than Croom really doesn't do much for me.

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This is the most terrible logic I have ever seen. When MSU DOES beat people, it was because they weren't good. Well f*ck those teams and f*ck everybody that feels the same way you do. It's not our fault those teams sucked. We beat their ass, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Umm....the same cycle over and over and over and over for 70 damn years, can't even see what needs to be done...but instead want to repeat it AGAIN!

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Uh, I think he's arguing AGAINST doing the same thing over and over and over again.

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Originally Posted by maroonmania

It ALWAYS depends on who you change to. We've just historically not been good at hiring coaches because we've had even worse ADs over the years than coaches. But just think where Bama would be today had they stuck with Shula another year or 2 and had missed out on Saban. And they went through a number of coaching changes before they hit the jackpot.

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I agree 100%. You throw the dice and see what comes up. That is what I think OM is doing with the freezer.

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Originally Posted by Todd4State

We've given Dan five years already. We are not getting any better. The man looks like he doesn't care most of the time. We are a 6-6 type program right now- and we should be an 8-10 win program by now if he was making proper progress.

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You really think 8-10 wins per year is realistic? That means never going below .500 in the SEC.

Agreed.

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Originally Posted by CadaverDawg

Yep. 2 straight years of suck. If we hadn't had the easiest non con schedule in the country last year, plus Auburn sucking, Ark sucking, and Tennessee sucking.....the Mullen defenders would be singing a different tune. Unfortunately ey're all blind as shit and can't read between the lines. By the way....what did those 3 teams do when their coaches sucked for a season or two? Yep, every damn one of em was fired. But by all means, let's keep talking up that big 8-5 season last year. It is ridiculous.

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Actually, auburn fires their coach after one poor season. Tennessee sucked for three years before firing Dooley and Smith was an interim and wasn't going to be re-hired no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy

My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).

All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.

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Everyone on the board stopped reading after this. This shows you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Hud has family all around the Starkville area. He is home grown. He wants to be at State bad. I know one of his relatives. If he gets the State job, he will be paid millions of dollars to coach on national television each week in the SEC while living at "home". He'll be surrounded by friends and family. He would not leave.
The flip side of that though is that if he takes a big SEC job, say Arkansas, Florida, South Carolina, he ain't gonna give up millions a year at a winning program to come back home. Once he lands his SEC job, he's done.