A note on the Italian death rate. They are not testing anyone under 30 and haven't been for some time.
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A note on the Italian death rate. They are not testing anyone under 30 and haven't been for some time.
Wonder how many of those states, like Michigan, will allow for large group exceptions (such as church)...Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
Where? I see:Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
"Total individuals tested for COVID-19: 1,392
As of March 22, 2020. Includes testing by the MSDH Public Health Laboratory only."
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
If the reason Italy spiraled out of control is due to the healthcare system being overwhelmed, then I'd say Spain could already be getting to that point as well. Their critical care capacity is even smaller than Italy'sQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I've already posted this picture a few times but here it is again:
https://sccm.org/sccm/media/main/Uni...ID-19-Fig1.jpg
And a wikipedia link for more charts to play around with:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._hospital_beds
Interestingly, Germany's >65 population % is right behind Italy's (23% vs 21%), yet their mortality is still only at 0.4% this week. I don't know what measures Germany has taken besides pretty vigorous testing early on, but to me, that lends more support to critical care capacity and not overwhelming it being the key between a good response a bad response. Luckily for us, I assume that means things have to get much worse here than they did in Italy before it reaches that point for us, since we have 3x the capacity before we're overwhelmed. It would probably be more effective to look at critical care capacity per capita by state considering the size of the US, but a quick google search didn't yield anything for me.
This doesn't say they were in the process of proactively preparing supplies and Trump's administration brought it to a halt. Just that they warned this could happen. Well no shit. That's no different than what I learned in history classes when talking about the Spanish flu and basic common sense. That is what a pandemic is.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
That doesn't mean anything. Obviously a pandemic could happen in the future. Just like another will happen after this one at some point. So all that article says is the previous administration just passed the buck to the next one. Just like GWB did to Obama. See how that works?
Be in prayer for David Johnson of the Ole Miss 247 site. He tested positive and is in the hospital.
I saw that. As far as OM people go, David's a good guy. Prayers for him and his family.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZedFedder
Ahhh, now your true motive is revealed - it is political, you are a socialist and believe the government is the source of all goods and services. Trump, being a capitalist and a believer in a free market and individual freedoms where a man/woman can achieve whatever they put their minds and efforts to, you hate him and ridicule him regardless of what he does. It is better to teach a man how to fish than to perpetually give him a fish - except for short period of time through a particular hardship - for the rest of their life and the lives of their kids and grand kids to boot. Look at history and see that welfare, other than as a temporary pick me up, is a total failure as we have multi-generational welfare recipients and they have no clue how to get out of this situation. Part of our government, and you, don't want them to get out - it is all about the vote and power - sell the US down the drain. You are taking away the self worth of a person and telling them they are nothing but trash not worthy of thinking and making a living based on their own merits. This is nothing more than redistribution of wealth - a socialist/communist agenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Do not tell me it is because they are poor that they can not learn or get out of poverty. I was born in southwest Mississippi in a 3 room tar paper shack on the Mississippi river. We had no running water in the house except for the kitchen sink that had water from a rain barrel. We had no bathroom, but only an outhouse abut 60 yards behind the house and a keep pot in the bedroom in case you had to go during the night. I took a bath on the from porch in a number 3 wash tub.
How did I get out of poverty? It is because my parents rode my ass every day and told me I WAS going to college and I WAS going to chose a major that society paid well and by the grace of God I did. They made me study and they instilled in me a sense of discipline and a do not take no for an answer attitude. It has served me well. I became an electrical engineer and have had a wonderful career in technology - computer oriented. Government was not the answer, parents are! Everybody does not have to be an engineer, but they can elevate themselves to something that gives them a level of self respect and a means to EARN a living! And no, I did not go to private school, but to the same public school everybody else goes to.
Why do you want to take that opportunity, and responsibility, away from those on welfare today?
If you think socialism is so GREAT, then go live in Venezuela or Russia and see what that form of government truly means. You will not like it!
You are a piece of work with your elitist attitude. Take it somewhere else. Our founding fathers and those who have died defending our freedoms would roll over in their graves hearing the crap you are postering.
1800 people attend church service in Louisiana yesterday
https://www.brproud.com/health/coron...d-19-outbreak/
SMH....Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Good post, I definitely believe the fatality rate is based on the quality of care patients receive. It's not just about hospital beds either. Doctors and nurses getting infected, ratio of patients to doctors/nurses, fatigue, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
Natural selectionQuote:
Originally Posted by hacker
So stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
How do you measure the fatality rate when there are so many people who flat out get turned down testing and told to go home?Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
We don't even have a constant on infected.
I smell what y'all are stepping in and I can agree with that but as stated many times over and over again Americans as a whole down play everything until it hits home for themselves. A prime example of this is spring breakers on the Florida beach long after the shit had already hit the fan. Again, they banned travel to and from China early on.... If that is the only issue you have I'm not seeing where it changes much. Were they not criticized for banning travel to and from China? Now you think they should have shut down travel all over the world? The WHO didn't even declare it a pandemic until March 11th and that was just 12 days ago.
The rest of the crap about checks and all that bull is just politics, that doesn't change the outcome of the virus. Pass the damn law and get Americans some money and that goes for BOTH sides. We have a bunch of whinny baby kids running America who can't work with each other. Both sides need to cut the shit.
Again, who really thought it was going to come to the point it's at? There's little comments the Doctor has made that lead me to believe there is some truth to the fact that China down played this. It sounds like they wouldn't let us help, said everything was under control, and we didn't get to see what was going on early.
It's easy to look back in hindsight and say what should or shouldn't have been done but it also looks like our previous policies and procedures were not well equipped for something of this magnitude. That was only magnified if it's true that China did in fact do what I stated above.
I don't think the % is that important. It's all over the place in different countries and we don't really know why. We can use the % to try to figure out how many people are going to die, but ultimately, we aren't going to know until this is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
The total number of deaths is what's important. My point was more "how many people will die is based on quality of care they receive"
I got out of poverty much the same way, bud. My parents filed bankruptcy while I was in high school, but now I've got multiple engineering degrees and a recession/pandemic proof job. Being someone who battled out of poverty and dealt with those hardships, do you not want people to NOT have to deal with that? To not have their kids be embarrassed to ask for money to go to a movie? Idk man, I got myself in a steady place. I'm happy with where I'm personally at.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
I don't want full on communism because it never works. (see: venezuela and russia and every other instance in history.) Its problem isn't far too different than what we have now. That the ruling class (in capitalism, the elite rich) controls everything and they are corrupt.
But why can't we have similar universal healthcare to Canada at least. No one is saying be ridiculously drastic. I just don't want poor people to have to go through what I went through. There's no perfect cure-all, but you can't tell me there's not something better than what we're doing.
So what if there are people who don't want to help themselves or "can't get out of this situation." My goal isn't that. My goal is to eliminate that situation altogether. With the advances we've made in automation, there's no need for every american to work 40 backbreaking hours every week. You certainly could if you wanted, but society is heading to a place we've never been where we don't need humans to do everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Then how do you rely so heavily on the stats you post.
I'm honestly not trying to flame you. I'm trying to understand the reasoning of the daily barrage of graphs and stats. Especially when you prop up your posts using them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Is the bolded a serious question? Hahaha what a joke.
Universal healthcare like Canada??? So we have an expiration date on helathcare and be told sorry, someone else is more important?
Do you not see how contradictory this is and not to mention how polar opposite and white people problems the movie question is. Gracious.
Right under the map. It states quite clearly that outside labs are also reporting positives to them, they are required too. The number of tests done is not required to be reported. Sorry to throw a little water on your fire. Just calm down.Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
If you go back to the original question, 7 was asking about # of tests administered, not the positives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg
So this is the difference, my parents never filed for bankruptcy, they gutted it out and payed their bills on time and this is the same work ethic they instilled in me. They did not look for a short cut, a quick way out nor a bailout. We lived within our means. The mindset is the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
Many years ago, mankind used to work from before daylight to after sunset 7 days per week. Due to Biblical principles (Moses - the 10 commandments), instituted a 6 day work week and then in the early 1900s Saturday was also given as a day of rest from labor/work/job. We work 5 days per week now or 40 hours per week (at least that is what we get paid for) and you want to reduce it even further? Does technology redefine man into some worthless pansy? Common, even in a technological world - like today and in the future - we will still gave to design devices/systems, manufacture and repair them (even with redundancy built in). Man has to do something, we can't sit on our thumbs all day and respond to these forums. Besides, idle hands are the devils playground.
Again, you want government run goods and services since we the people are too stupid to create them ourselves. You view everything as a right, an entitlement, and nothing is to be EARNED or worked for. Once you tax those who do have into oblivion (that is you and me today), there is no more money and then what? All incentive to EARN is gone and we will all file for welfare. Who in the hell is going to pay for it? Go to Canada and see how good their healthcare is - their people schedule surgery in the US by the way.
I post stats partly because they're interesting to me, partly to keep y'all informed. I mainly post the death rates to show the trend. Total number is ultimately what matters, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
The issue is there will be a corupt group regardless of the structure of govt. Our's just happens to limit it to a degree. We certainly aren't as bad off as China or Russia are. Another issue with Uni Healthcare is someone has to pay for it somewhere. If the govt is paying for it it will look just like the VA hospitals do.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
If you haven't read up on VA hospitals I would suggest you take a look. It is awful. Patients aren't getting seen, appointments are delayed sometimes by months. People have died waiting to actually get something done at VA hospitals. Because anytime you are talking about a govt. run program bureaucracy will take over.
Look at the DMV, is that what you want to experience when you visit a hospital?
I agree there are things we should be doing or could be doing but Universal Healthcare isn't going to solve the poverty issue.
Is filing bankruptcy looking for a shortcut? Is it bad work ethic?Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
Or is it taking advantage of the system? I cant remember his name, but some rich guy told me once that filing bankruptcy is just a smart way to use the system and the laws in place.
Taking from people that have and giving to people that don't have without making them do anything for that does not work. You can't force everybody to be equal.
This can be summarized by an the old story about the teacher who was going to prove that to his class by averaging their grades. The people that studied hard who made an A were given a B and the people who did not and made a D were given a B. Eventually the people who studied hard quit because why would they study for an A to only get a C while they watch others not study at all and get the same C.
Wow this forum really moved in another direction.
It is cheating the system, someone has to either pay or absorb the debt. It is a shortcut. Business is a 2 way street, I have an object to sell and you have money to buy the object. It is an even bidirectional deal. You get some object to enhance your life and I get some money to allow me to also purchase some object to enhance my life. When someone bails on their responsibility and cheats the system and declares bankruptcy you short-circuit the systems and someone gets screwed. Prices of goods are increased to hedge against this threat - a percentage of people will declare bankruptcy - it harms the system for all of us. This is not how capitalism is supposed to work. We are to ALL pull our weight. This is the only way it will work properly (morality is a given here for the same reasons).Quote:
Originally Posted by deadheaddawg
One thing I learned the past year, MD Anderson in Houston is full of folks from Canada who want great treatment. Hell, I?ve never seen more people from other countries than at MD Anderson. The US healthcare is light years better than any government run healthcare from any country.Quote:
Originally Posted by dantheman4248
So would you say someone with multiple bankruptcies is a bad businessman? Thar someone with multiple bankruptcies isn't good for capitalism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
This is incorrect. If you want money in exchange for providing a good or service, all you have to do is not provide the good or service unless you get money. The people that get stiffed in a bankruptcy proceeding just about always people who voluntarily extended credit to someone or a some entity and did so knowing the potential for bankruptcy is part of the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
There are certainly people and entities who abuse the system, and there are certainly people and entities who don't necessarily abuse the system but act imprudently in a way that is more or less equivalent to abusing the system, but filing bankruptcy itself is not abuse nor it is inconsistent with capitalism. If anything, bankruptcy is a vital part of capitalism because it creates a structured way to handle insolvency events and also incentivizes risk taking by allowing people to take risks without worrying that they will end up in a virtual debtor's prison, just like limited liability business entities are not short cuts or abuses of the system (although some pepole abuse them).
My dad had complications from a disease he got when he was 7 (labeled a pre-existing condition by insurance companies) and became disabled and unable to work. Medical bills piled up and we had no way to pay. But yea, we took the "easy way out." Sad to say, but the only reason my mother is able at all to financially climb out of the hole is that he passed away as medical bills kept piling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extendedcab
Healthcare companies refused to cover him. Freedom and all that. Caused a 15 year old and a 9 year old to live in a family in bankruptcy. Just to protect your free market.
You're missing the point about working. We don't have to if we don't want to. I've worked many a 50 hr and 60 hr weeks while in college just to pay my bills. You're preaching toughness to the wrong guy. I've lived it. I've felt it. I don't want anyone to know that pain. It ****ing sucks.
Yes I view life as a right. Why shouldn't I? Entitlement is a buzzword. It's something you've let fool your perspective. And no, you don't have to tax you or me into oblivion to do it. That's the myth. That whole Sanders 52% tax schlock doesn't apply to people making what I make. That's to the million a year makers. I'm not saying go all the way and make everyone equal, that will never work. I'm saying raise the floor. Sure maybe that cuts the ceiling down some. To borrow the grade scale argument: Right now we're ensuring people have the ability to make a 400 or higher out of 100 on a test by sacrificing preventing people from making below a 60 and allowing them to bottom out to 0. By cutting back to 250-300 we could make that 60 minimum happen.
And rich people in Canada do that because our top end is better. We take the best care of the rich in the world healthcare wise. Bottom end, no way.
America is starting to put out healthcare priority guidelines for when it gets Italy bad here in about a week
https://www.npr.org/2020/03/21/81964...YBwGyYk3rwbLGU
I think this is pretty dumb, but I can't help but think of Walmarts having a couple hundred customers at the same time. Plus with that many customers in-and-out all day, the chances of Walmart employees being exposed is pretty big imo. Not sure how you could solve this problem and people still be able to stock up thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by hacker
Everybody sees where you're going here. You're going for the aha gotcha moment but that doesn't mean anything. Nobody will agree with everything a President does but that doesn't mean that said President is a bad President. My wife doesn't agree with everything I say or do but we are still married....Quote:
Originally Posted by deadheaddawg
Nope. They guy I am talking to obviously feels very strongly about bankruptcies. He insulted another poster parents over it. He said another posters parents had poor work ethics over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
So I am curious to hear his answer. He obviously feels very strongly about bankruptcies and the work ethic of those that do it. He called it cheating and bad for capitalism. He obviously has strong opinions on it
I asked him a valid question after his posts. He can answer for himself
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by deadheaddawg
Seems fair. Make someone else pay for it.
ETA: Also don't take this and twist my words. The way you phrased it was 100% saying screw it, take advantage because it benefits me and I don't give a damn about consequences.
You weren't defending how bankruptcies are the only way out sometimes. You fully threw the cheat the system blanket over the whole topic with your comment and now will use that as your ammunition if someone argues with you. But you'll base your argument on the original comment made. Not your blanket statement. I realize now yours was simple bait for you to pounce on.
What do you expect him to do? Not talk politics on a political board?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick
(Said as one of the worse offenders, although I think I am successful at never starting the political sidetracks)
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadheaddawg
A pretty strange end to your response since you're interjecting yourself and speaking on behalf of someone else here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hacker
So what if they are misleading or aren't 100% accurate or don't paint the full picture? In this case partly because of the small sample size.
Do they benefit all or only one side? Or do they harm the collective end goal and all the in-betweens on how to attain that goal?