So you would have fired Saban at Michigan St?Quote:
Originally Posted by civildawg
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So you would have fired Saban at Michigan St?Quote:
Originally Posted by civildawg
Mediocrity?
2014 was the best season in Mississippi history for a team not going down for cheating. This is the best run in program history. We just lost the starting QB for the Cowboys. This ISNT mediocre! We will never be Bama or LSU...but with consistency we can sneak up and beat them every 4-5 years on our way to 9-10 wins from time to time.
Dan pisses me off A LOT, but we are far from mediocre for a school with our budget, size, location, & competition surrounding us. We are OVERachieving since Mullen arrived, don't kid yourselves. And this is coming from a guy that wants to punch Mullen at least a handful of times each Saturday. At MSU we don't have to settle for 6-6 or 5-7, but we have to know that's going to happen every 5-6 years give or take. Having multiple 9+ win seasons in a 7 year span is HUGE for us. Don't get greedy and send us back into the abyss unless we KNOW 100% Dan has lost it. We aren't there yet and everybody knows it.
You wanna know who takes a job at MSU if Mullen's tenure plus 5-7 or 6-6 gets him fired?? Nobody worth a damn, bc that's a death sentence. There will always be 5-7 or 6-6 at MSU. Reloading is not an option. It just isn't. Unless we want what colonel reb has comin.
I know it's aggravating watching us lose to USA & struggle with UMass, but take a deep breath, look at our situation as a whole, and at least give the man a full season to turn it around. We know he's capable. If he doesn't show signs of fixing it as of this time next season,these comments will be justified. But not now.
THIS ^^^^ is why we lose to the Bears. Dan is recruiting kids that are graded on the 10 pt scale and have to pass the ACT to get into college. Freeze is recruiting kids that are so smart they don't have to take the ACT to get into college. They be smarter than our kids ****Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
We'll see how it goes. October is very big for Dan- and potentially even bigger now that Scott is gone. I think Dan is mainly still here because of the money and the fact he couldn't find anyone to pay him what we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
Listened to Mike Detillier on Out of Bounds today. Was talking about how a coach at LSU owns the state of Louisiana in recruiting. He said he had many, many conversations with Nick about why he left Mich. St. Saban told him he left cause he could never be #1 in recruiting in his own state at Mich. St., and he wanted to be #1 in his own state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
So to answer your question .... YEP.
I know our history very well- better than most. I?m a history nut. And one thing about history is you can either use it as an excuse or you can use it to learn.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
I think the main reason why our history has been bad is because we have mismanaged the program over the years and it has just carried over because of the prevailing attitude of ?we can?t? rather than ?how do we fix it??
We should look at our mistakes and then learn from them and improve them. Two major themes stick out if you look at our history- poor scheduling decision especially selling off home games to people like LSU and Florida forcing us to play them on the road and the other one is??hanging on to a failing coach too long.
We?ve corrected the scheduling issue for the most part. We?ll see if we learn from our past mistake of holding on to coaches too long. From what it appears for the most part we haven?t. Which is sad.
Here's the thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
We had a team that should have won 11 games last year including the bowl. We won 9. Dak masked a LOT of things last year that aren’t getting masked now. Without Dak we’re probably 6-6 at best last year.
So, essentially because of Dak, Dan is getting a pass on last year from most of our fans. Unfortunately that is only going to likely end up tacking on a year of misery if our “rational” fans get their way.
I don’t see how anyone can look at our team and how they have performed and objectively say that things look like they are going to get better. We haven’t even really played a good team yet aside from LSU and despite the score they dominated us.
We'll worry about getting a coach when the time comes. I think we'll be OK because of what we can offer. There aren't very many SEC jobs that come open every year.
Glad you are honest about it and history is glad the Michigan St AD had more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Saban didn't want to be there (sound familiar). I think they're pretty happy with Dantonio. He's done far better than Saban did there. And he seems to like it there pretty good too. Not saying he won't leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
ETA: Not everyone is the right fit for a particular job.
Saban did leave after his 5th year of one 9 win season. His prior 4 he won 6, 6, 7, and 6 games. It then took them 7 years to get to Dantonio. He didn't follow Saban and picked up where he left off. They had 2 winning seasons afterward. Unless a coach losses the team or has a scandal, the stats show that changing coaches in that circumstance at poor or especially average schools the new guy fails even worse. You back to your historic average or worse more times than not. The AD understood and trusted he had the right guy in Saban even though he was hard to work with (none of his coaches wanted to go with him to LSU even though he sent a plane for the ones who wanted to).Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgday166
Mullen's roster mgt is his weak linl
I will defer to your knowledge on this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
So here's where I'm coming to for right now (unless the season really tanks ... and I'm not sure what that is at the moment ha). Since the CFB coaching landscape will more than likely be littered with has been or never was coaches next year that are fired after this year, I'm leaning toward giving Mullen another year. Maybe 2 unless we can get a quality proven head coach (sorta like an Urban Meyer was before FL ... Someone like Herman would work too, although he be either gone or staying at Houston I'm thinking). A lot of good coaches are gonna get snatched up next year by other teams, and some historic powers at that.
Now if we lose another DC, Dan would be on borrowed time with me until I could find said type of coach mentioned above.
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
There you go again, all negative. Shoulda coulda is just talk, 9 wins are good and winning a bowl. The Lsu game is or was a 60 minute contest, I don't think they scored in the second half, no they did not dominate us, they won cause they were more talented. Shoulda coulda is also by two terrible calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
We are 2-2, isn't always pretty but we lost 2 games by 4 points total, that tells me one more play on either game and we are 4-0. That's how it looks on the positive side, but just like your negative witch hunt the reality is we are even at this point.
As for as history, you again don't get it all correct, fact again is we have had over 100 years to get thing right, seems Mullen is one of a very few to know how to do it and you keep saying we need a change and we aren't even half way done with this season. As Mr Wonderful likes to say Todd, "Stop the madness".
Way too much negative talk!
LSU dominated us. The score doesn't indicate that but anyone that actually watched the game that is honest with themselves knows that is the case. We scored on their prevent defense, recovered an onside kick and scored again on their prevent defense. After we stopped them they turned up the heat again and we went three and out. I'm being honest based on what I saw. And that was a team with a lame duck coach and a QB telling other players to leave on twitter.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
We've actually had a lot more "right" than a lot of people realize. Paul Davis went to a Liberty Bowl and had his DC poached by Bear Bryant and Ken Donahue was a big reason for Bama's success while the Bear was there. Shira was pretty bad but still managed to go 6-5. I'd say he is the worst coach we had the past 50 years. Tyler won 9 games twice. Bellard won 9 and 8 and scored our biggest win in school history, Felker went 6-5, Jackie's success is well documented including a SEC West Title and the 1999 season where we won 10, Croom even went to and won 8 with a Liberty Bowl title, and Dan has had several 8-9 win seasons.
What's negative is saying "well, we're MSU and we're going to have down seasons. At least it's not 1969- I remember how bad that was." We need more fans holding our coaches accountable instead of giving them passes and hoping that maybe they can turn it around because Frank Beamer did it once and we might have the next Frank Beamer. What's also negative is saying "Well we won't be able to hire anyone good if we fire Dan because it will look bad if we fire him". For all we know Keenum might have someone Ben Howland esque lined up and we don't know about it yet.
And if Dan actually makes changes- I'll give him all the credit in the world for doing so. I gave him full credit for the first half of South Carolina. And if this season ends up 5-7 or 6-6 there better be some changes- and I'm not talking about Sirmon. I am talking about Hevesy being gone.
Close game management sux too. Don't think we'll have to worry about that much this year tho ******Quote:
Originally Posted by Boya
[QUOTE=Todd4State;621435]LSU dominated us. The score doesn't indicate that but anyone that actually watched the game that is honest with themselves knows that is the case. We scored on their prevent defense, recovered an onside kick and scored again on their prevent defense. After we stopped them they turned up the heat again and we went three and out. I'm being honest based on what I saw. And that was a team with a lame duck coach and a QB telling other players to leave on twitter.
We've actually had a lot more "right" than a lot of people realize. Paul Davis went to a Liberty Bowl and had his DC poached by Bear Bryant and Ken Donahue was a big reason for Bama's success while the Bear was there. Shira was pretty bad but still managed to go 6-5. I'd say he is the worst coach we had the past 50 years. Tyler won 9 games twice. Bellard won 9 and 8 and scored our biggest win in school history, Felker went 6-5, Jackie's success is well documented including a SEC West Title and the 1999 season where we won 10, Croom even went to and won 8 with a Liberty Bowl title, and Dan has had several 8-9 win seasons.
What's negative is saying "well, we're MSU and we're going to have down seasons. At least it's not 1969- I remember how bad that was." We need more fans holding our coaches accountable instead of giving them passes and hoping that maybe they can turn it around because Frank Beamer did it once and we might have the next Frank Beamer. What's also negative is saying "Well we won't be able to hire anyone good if we fire Dan because it will look bad if we fire him". For all we know Keenum might have someone Ben Howland esque lined up and we don't know about it yet.
And if Dan actually makes changes- I'll give him all the credit in the world for doing so. I gave him full credit for the first half of South Carolina. And if this season ends up 5-7 or 6-6 there better be some changes- and I'm not talking about Sirmon. I am talking about Hevesy being gone.[/QUOTE
Lsu was being Lsu Todd. They weren't preventing nothing on offense. They were held to 122 yards, total. Football is a game of 60 minutes not 56, we lost by 3 points. You are wrong
Tyler got fired because he went crazy, he deserved it. Davis was a one hit wonder, JWS was burn out no doubt. But it was time to go.
Mullen is in a different league compared to our past
Put the play station down, u are pretty good at baseball, but football ain't your thing. You obviously didn't play the game long enough and I know you never coached. Being a so called arm chair is no expert.
All this negative stuff because we are 2 plays from being 4-0.
[QUOTE=basedog;621455]Tyler was fired because we were on probation. You telling me that us keeping it close against LSU counts but the success of our coaches doesn't count is ironic at best. I'm pretty sure some of the former coaches on here will back up my assessment of the LSU game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Again, time will tell if I am right or not. I do remember saying last year that Dan likely wouldn't start caring again- and so far I have been mostly right about that. Mostly as in other than one half this year.
How about the fact that without Dan we wouldn't have ever seen Dak Prescott at MSU. And because of Dan's ability to develop QB's, Dak was what he was at MSU and is now a NFL QB instead of a business man that played TE at a P5 school but never amounted to much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
You want to say "without Dak, Dan sucks"....but want to ignore the "without Dan, who is Dak?"
Plus, Mullen has always developed QB's well....wanna give him more than 3-4 games into Fitz's soph year before giving up on him this time?
I'm not saying Mullen won't earn the hot seat. I'm saying he is not close to it yet, nor should he be. Teams have down years and rebuilding years after losing a transcendent player....especially teams like MSU. We can't just scrap every coach that has a losing season or loses to Ole Miss.
You wanna say Hev & Knox should be gone? Sallach maybe? I can start joining you in your thinking......but Mullen? No. It is nowhere near time to force Mullen out.
Good job by Dan with Dak. What about the rest of the team? Running backs, o-line, etc.? It still doesn't mean he should get a total pass on this year.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
What was the comment about Fitzgerald about? I haven't said anything bad about him this year and he should clearly start. That just seems random.
As I have said several times on here, you have to look at the big picture and not just solely at wins and losses. I don't like the way we're trending. And I don't need nor do I want to deal with 20+ games of Dan not caring to prove me right.
Damn Todd, did you just say don't look at the wins and losses and look at the big picture? Now I know you don't understand football. Dude, Mullen's big picture is the best we have had in our modern time of history.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
You are one of the worse negative witch hunters on your dislike for Mullen. You said you know more about our history of football but you failed badly!
That is insane thinking it I should say statement.
Damn!
No. I clearly said you can't look SOLELY at the wins and losses. Wins and losses are part of the big picture- but they aren't the only thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
LOL, the agenda lives in you Todd. Winning is the most important thing, losing gets your ass fired. Our overall football history sucks! JWS gave us life and hope, sustained 12 years which is tops. Mullen has taken over a much worse situation than JWS, his big picture is clear as the sky is blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I could kick Mullen in the ass, but he is a proven winner and we are one of the worse all time losing programs in the SEC. There is no way and the other agenda guys should be on your witch hunt when we have only played a third of the season.
You are so for off it makes me laugh with you thinking you know such much about our history and the things you say about Mullen. With your thinking we should throw in the towel.
I laugh with your way off statement about winning/losing and the big picture. It's right up there with 34 saying Cohen should be fired after he bunted in the first inning. All Cohen did is win the Sec didn't he. And know back to you and your witch hunt.
I know our history. I also have perspective on where we are now and what we could be/should be. It should be better than it is now. It's more than just about the past. Just because we were winning the past few years doesn't mean we are reaching our potential. Just like Polk in the 2000's in baseball was winning but not at the level we could and should have been. He had some recruiting issues just like Dan as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
You'll never understand that because you just look at our history and think that we should suck because "we always have"- yet you call me negative.
Not only are you negative, unless u walked the beach and found a bottle and made a wish with Jenny popping out. You sure don't have a clue about our history as you say nor can you predict the future. Pretty arrogant for you to say or think you know what is best. Like I told you earlier, obviously you didn't play a lot of football except your play station as I recall you played in the band. Also you never coached a day in your life so you could never be a Dan Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
As I keep reading your negative post and not giving Mullen any credit, it is so plain you missed your calling with at the Clariin Ledger. U and Fat Boy have a bunch in common!
I've played more sports, I've coached more sports, both at the college level. I will give you credit for playing more play station football as I never have pretended to be a player or coach.
Learn to be more positive when dealing with my school. 4 games isn't the future, 6 straight bowl games is a bright history moment. Some of the few bright moments.
So you know more than Byrne? Who told several of us that the pieces are coming together but it was going to take a full generation, the right HC hire and for us to get to $75 MIL annual budget for a decade. If we were lucky we could get there in 10 years. This was to raise our floor to legitimate solid program. If we got a once a lifetime coach help push us to a consistent Top 15 team. And this was before Mullen was hired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Yes they are. Otherwise going 10-0 with a natty could get you fired. See how stupid that sounds? You need to step away from the interwebs for awhile. Mullen isn't getting fired this year. Unless he's caught cracking little kids or something, we aren't going to fire him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
He just reboots his play station, so losing want eliminate his game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
He mentioned history of coaches. He went back to the 60's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Davis was famous for his great line "Catch us if you can" after a 4-0 start, we finished losing 6 straight. Losing record overall.
Shira who I knew very well, good man, bad HC. Losing record overall.
Tyler, may be the craziest coach in our history. Stole the "slush fund mone" then told everyone to turn him in. Put us on probation.
Bellard, won on Tyler's cheating, didn't recruit, may be the most hard headed coach in our history. Losing record overall.
Rocky, way to in-experienced to be a HC, started to recruit at the end but it was to late, loosing record overall.
JWS, The Kang, gave credit to Rocky for leaving him talent, gave our program life, enough said, even overall record.
Croom, let's just leave it at loosing record overall.
Mullen, his record speaks for itself, to be continued.
Looking back even further it's not much better. In saying that, Todd has the answers to solve our problems, go figure?
That doesn't make sense (aside from the part about getting a natty while only playing 10 games). Going undefeated and winning a natty is enough to trump everything else in teh big picture, but the way to show that wins and losses are the only thing is to show that nothing is looked at other than wins and losses, which is obviously wrong. There are lots of situations where the wins aren't there, but there other signs that things are improving or good that justify a coach keeping his job. Bert didn't have the wins his first few years, but the program was doing ok otherwise, and he was on a good trend. Stansbury wouldn't have gotten fired solely for wins and losses, but he had significant discipline problesm with his team and didn't really have a feasible path to fix it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
So were those just bad hires or did we trip over our own dicks for 40 years or both?
I think the records and what I said speaks volumes. When Mullen is done we will open up a new chapter, but for now he is the best over this time frame but yet some think we can do better. When we get to the point we can hire a AD for $1.06 million, and weight and conditioning Coach $600K, wake me up. Bottom line, whether Mullen is burn out or wants out, he still is our Coach, I'm for letting the season play out as I don't have a Jenny in the bottle like someone else. But I do know winning is good and running a clean program is good. He also handles discipline very well, very seldom do you read about our players in trouble, it happens not much compared to most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
How long was Stansbury here? He was given a very long time and he wasn't making the NCAA tournament. That's a crazy argument.
Wins are all that matter. It's whether or not 8 wins are good enough or 10 wins are required etc. And having one bad season isn't grounds for firing Mullen. Now if next year sucks, we can talk. But this year, he's not getting fired. Hell, Briles almost survived the problems at Baylor because of the wins. Just got to be too much. UM isn't firing Freeze for cheating unless the NCAA basically requires them to. Why? because of the wins.
I agree with most of that, but I still think we handicapped ourselves a good bit too. I really hope with the influx of Juco's that your last sentence doesn't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
And I agree, we have handicapped ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Interpolation_Dawg_EX
The only thing I will mention that has helped Mullen during this period in the SEC that gives him a slight advantage (over other coaches we've had in our history) is that it is now absolutely easier to win OOC games than it has ever been. Still as hard as ever to win in the conference but now you have a really great shot to be 4-0 OOC. It certainly didn't used to be that way at MSU but rising tides in the SEC lifts all boats and has given us advantages over regional teams not in the SEC that we have never had. Now the rule that is forcing us to play one P5 team OOC is certainly going to hurt in that area going forward but we've had a couple of years where Mullen has been able to use a 4-0 OOC record to go along with a 2-6 SEC record and still make a bowl. In years past those would have been 5-6 seasons or worse before the 12 game schedule and the extra advantages we have against OOC teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by basedog
Something else I just thought about to add...we went from November 3, 1962 to November 1, 1986 without playing Bama in Starkville. That's almost 25 years without an on campus home game!!! From 1960 to 1992, we played in Baton Rouge 21 times, with 7 straight in the 60's. We stopped playing them on campus in 1923 and didn't return to Starkville until 1982. I could go on and on with examples of this....Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
So tired of this OOC argument. Before 1970 we played 10 reg season games a year (I know earlier it was less but for time sake). Only 5-6 of those games were SEC for the bulk of the 60's, twice played 7 SEC games I think Tulane was the SEC team. We played non majors like Richmond, La Tech, Tampa, Samford, and Arkansas St and a weak Ind USM, nearly every year we had those type of teams on schedule.Quote:
Originally Posted by maroonmania
Then from 1970-1991 we went to an 11 game reg season. Only 6-7 of those were SEC games. So again, 4-5 OOC. Nearly every season in the 1970's and for several of the 80's we played a non major or extremely weak DI. Sometimes both.
1992 started the 8 SEC game seasons. We still had weak OOC games. Ark State, ULM, East Tenn, etc. So I don't see the advantage Mullen has had getting to play 8 conference teams a season when some years we only played 5. The going to a 12 game schedule vs 10 didn't add OOC games, it added conference games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
We now have huge advantages over those non power 5 teams that we are playing whereas we used to have some advantages over them but it wasn't as big. When we play any team that isn't power 5 in 2016 and we should skull drag them. We have a much bigger budget, much better facilities, and coaches that should be way out of their league and that should cause us to have way better players. It hasn't always been that way.
Also, money is becoming less and less of a factor between us and the rest of the conference, even though we are still at the bottom of the league money wise. Once you get to the point to where the entire conference is income wise, money should not be a crutch argument that we use to accept mediocrity. Prestige? Yea that is still an issue. Our 120 yeas of sucking? Yea that still haunts us. Our small state with 2 SEC schools? Yea that's a factor. Money really isn't that huge of a deal right now. We have great facilities, great coaches, and great stadiums.
I can tell you when things started getting somewhat better, the hiring of Dr Z, then we went down some with the next few Prez. Now with Keenum we have gotten up again.
Also, the Sec back in the early years wasn't the power house it is today. I could care less how or who we beat, winning trumps losing everyday, all day and everytime. Mullen has probably the best all time record in Msu history for victories against OOC foes. He probably has close to the most Sec wins, he is the only one to take us to 6 straight bowls. His record speaks for itself, period, you haters can twist all you want but it is what it is, facts!
P.S. very soon Mullen will either be fired or get another job, when he does, the agenda will be, I told you so. Mark it down.