Stands and this "top of the SEC" BS that keeps getting thrown around on here

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Originally Posted by Coach34

nobody misses that shit. People miss having more talented teams. But nobody misses the drama

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I'm in NO way either a basketball/baseball cat, by any stretch of the imagination...

As a Bammer, I can recall winning a SECC with Mike Dubose in footbal in '99 (and openly rooting against Bama in those years), suffering through the fall of that secretariHo smackin Wimp who resided over a really good B-Ball run... and watching (arguably) the 2nd greatest all-time SEC baseball program slip late during Coach Wells' tenure...

sometimes, it's tough to "cut the cord"...

For the life of me, I cannot understand ANYBODY continues to bring this up! This is not even a big thing on SPS and goodness knows they have little enough sports threads anymore. Talk about a dead horse . . . Wow

For the life of me, I cannot understand why ANYBODY continues to bring this up! This is not even a big thing on SPS and goodness knows they have little enough sports threads anymore. Talk about a dead horse . . . Wow

Engie :It does not matter Coach has the problem his buddy who works on campus has .His head is up his ass so far that he may need a glass stomach to see out of. Our last coach has been gone 3 years he not causing losses to South Carolina Upstate and Home losses to Ole Miss and Georiga when we had leads in the 2nd half. Whatever

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Originally Posted by engie

Why start this thread?

You can't just let bygones be bygones can you?

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As a marketing/fundraising professional it's pretty simple.

Your product's "worth" or "relevance" (MBB) can be measured by excitement and butts in seats.

C34 why don't you publish attendance figures between what we had and what we have?

We now have a program that nobody wants to go see.

I used to drive 5 or 6 times a year from NW TN to watch. Did we always win? No...were we relevant and exciting? Yes.

Case closed.

Butler

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Originally Posted by smootness

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

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This is the biggest bullshit I've ever read on the interwebs.

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Originally Posted by smootness

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

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I retract my previous statement.

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Originally Posted by msumudcat

As a marketing/fundraising professional it's pretty simple.

Your product's "worth" or "relevance" (MBB) can be measured by excitement and butts in seats.

C34 why don't you publish attendance figures between what we had and what we have?

We now have a program that nobody wants to go see.

I used to drive 5 or 6 times a year from NW TN to watch. Did we always win? No...were we relevant and exciting? Yes.

Case closed.

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aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

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Originally Posted by smootness

That's an embarrassingly simple explanation.

We had a program that embarrassed the entire university under Stans, we don't now.
We were a joke under Stans, now we are less of a joke.
We were never again going to be a real factor nationally under Stans, now we at least have the hope of one day getting there again.

Those are also simply explanations that are just as valid as yours.

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Hey, did y'all hear? Two college athletes had a fight with each other. Who thought that could ever happen? Surely it has never happened before. Oops. Shirley. My bad. I'm sooooooo embarrassed. It just dries my ****** right up.

Can't we just bring Richard Williams back? ***

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Originally Posted by Coach34

aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

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Ok. Ok. Everyone gets it. If we take out of consideration the most successful part of Stansbury's tenure, we get the least successful part.

Never said that we were tops in the SEC. Because of your hatred for RS, you can't see the truth. We were relevant under his leadership.

When RS was our coach we routinely sold out the Hump.

Now, we are jacked if 1500 shows.

It enthralls me to see my JUCO teammate and friend C34 avoid the relevance of our MBB. Butts in seats, butts in seats.

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Originally Posted by smootness

We won 17 his next to last year.

And now we see that it really is Stans supporters, not the people who supported him leaving, that have the lowered expectations.

If being a slightly-above-.500 SEC team is 'kicking a**' then sure, bring Stans back. Just realize we would pretty much be assuring we never did any better than that. Ever again. And again, the program was actually trending downward, so even that was probably going to be expecting too much.

The reason we wanted Stans gone at the end is because we want to ultimately do better than what he offered. If Ray isn't the guy to do it, fine, get rid of him and try somebody else. But trying and failing, which leads to trying again is far better than just accepting that you won't do better.

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You got what you wanted. Stans is gone. Congrats on your achievement.

Btw, I rarely touched the field and C34 was a starter. Lack of talent and shit on my part.

I miss hearing about our problems in the national media. If we had a fight now nobody would ever hear about it. If it was at home there might not be anyone there to see it. We had a nice run under the Williams/Stans regime but alas it wasn't good enough for the stature of the program so we had to end it.***

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Originally Posted by msumudcat

Btw, I rarely touched the field and C34 was a starter. Lack of talent and shit on my part.

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Your Jack Cristil imitation was one of the best out there

I love that man. Not to hi "jack" the thread but "pleasant good afternoon" to everyone.

Pure Gold Again that has zero to do with the actual results. Yes I vote to not to keep score the last three years .That could help Ray keep his job really.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

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Originally Posted by msumudcat

We were relevant under his leadership.

When RS was our coach we routinely sold out the Hump.

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We were relevant because we could for the most part compete in any one game and had tournament quality talent, even if it was unlikely that we would actually make the tournament. There's no doubt that if anybody was satisfied with that, getting rid of Stansbury was the suck. Anybody that thought we were going to get rid of Stans and had a better than 50/50 (or even better than 40/60) chance of improving was delusional.

But at the same time, the basketball program was going to lose support regardless. Stansbury was on a downward slope and it would have been extremely hard for him to right the ship just because he would never get a fresh start with new players. We could have stuck with Stansbury and very likely "enjoyed" a slow decline. We would have been worse the last three years than Stans' last two years (probably not as bad as expected from the talent loss just because that talent hugely underachieved, even for Stans), but better than we have been with Rick Ray. But we're still talking about NIT teams, with that basically being our ceiling. I'd prefer that to what we have now, but at the same time, I would lose interest in that pretty quickly. We were going to have to suffer through a rebuild when we lost/fired Stansbury regardless, and I don't have a huge problem with facing that rebuild sooner rather than later, even though we could have had a few more NIT teams if we had waited.

The Johnson guy gets it

W

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Originally Posted by Coach34

aGAIN- that has zero to do with the actual results. The University of Stands people- like yourself you Kozy-born hardheaded man- continually say we were tops on the SEC with Stands. And that is an outright lie. We were a middle of the pack SEC team under Stands the last half of his tenure. And also the 1st 3 years of his tenure. He had a very good 4 yr run from 2002-2005- but by 2012, those days were long gone and never coming back.

We were middle of the pack SEC the last half of his tenure- that's all I'm establishing- and would appreciate you guys being honest in future threads

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You got your wish. Things changed. We are now firmly entrenched in the lower reaches of the league.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We were in no way, shape, or form "top of the SEC" Stands' last 7 seasons. We were a middle of the pack SEC basketball team with a shitload of drama

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Lotta 'hate' in that post. Sorry, but even in Stan's 'worse' year may end up being better than Ray's best year.

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years. Look at the whole ball of wax. He won more games than any Coach in our history. To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis. What is Alabama had fired Bear Bryant when He had a dip in the late 60's. Stansbury made MSU a Force in the SEC and He did it longer than any Coach in our History. He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that. What Strick did was awful.He is getting what He deserves, and the people that are suffering are the Bulldog Basketball Fans.

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Originally Posted by Homedawg

Why is this^ so hard to see? We weren't a national power during the stans years. I understand we weren't the bottom of the league either. But to listen to some of you we got rid of Adolph rupp. We underachieved we the talent we had in more than 10 of his 14 years. Kudos to to him for getting the talent, that's part of it. But boy did he ever f it up once we got it.

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Nailed it. Other than a 2 season stretch where he caught lightning in a bottle with Bowers & L-Rob's team, we were never much more than a middle of the pack SEC team. And even in those 2 seasons, Stans managed to flame out without reaching the Sweet 16. And he totally missed the Big Dance with the '09 team that had seniors Varnado & Stewart, freshman Bost who Stans had already publicly called the best PG he'd coached, and damn good role players in Ravern, Turner, Kodi, etc. If he couldn't make the NCAAT with that group, he wasn't going to make it again. Don't know why that is so hard to understand.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis.

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Normally that would be true enough. Coaches with any length of a career in one place will have peaks and valleys. The problem with Stans was not that he had a downward trend in results, it was that he had a downward trend in players' respect for the coaching staff. For much of Stansubry's career, Stansbury managed to recruit players that were higher character than the baseball or football players. But the character of his players trended steadily downward and that was a real problem for him by the time he left. As far as I know, Ware, Thomas, and Sword have kept entirely out of trouble since they've been here, so maybe he could have turned it around with them. But he also would have been bringing Gray, who had some red flags to say the least. And there would have been upper classmen on the team that possibly Stansbury wouldn't have been in a good position to discipline. Maybe those players would have been a bad influence on the freshmen, maybe not. Certainly Stewart and Varnado never seemed to be brought down by their teammates, but there are a lot more examples of players that were. It just would have been tough for Stansbury (or any coach in his position) to change the culture with players that he brought in and when he had allowed the culture to degenerate to the place it had.

There's no arguing that Stansbury did a lot for MSU and State fans on the whole should be very appreciative of Stansbury, but what Stricklin did was certainly not awful. It wasn't a no-brainer decision either way. If Stansbury had stayed another year, that would have been fine with me. I certainly think it was a mistake to fire him without having a better grasp on what the replacement options were. But he wasn't entitled to another year.

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Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

Lotta 'hate' in that post. Sorry, but even in Stan's 'worse' year may end up being better than Ray's best year.

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aGAIN- has nothing to do with this thread

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years. Look at the whole ball of wax.

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I picked his last SEVEN years- the last half of his tenure and the most recent. Those are the most relevant. The last half of his tenure we were middle of the pack- the proof is right there- you cant deny it or spin it.

Middle of the pack............looks mighty good compared to where we are now. You can't deny it or spin it.

Dear god... why do people argue with Coach about Stans still? Coach34 loves nothing more than trounching on his grave as a head coach.
Coach is right he wasnt a good coach any more. He was a hell of a recruiter. The simple fact that he won't every be a Head coach again speaks enough.
Stansbury was not going to turn the program around. Let it die.

But on the same hand, Stans being a bad coach does not compute with how horrible a coach Ray is.
Ray will get next year and hopefully that is enough of that.


Stansbury is gone and anyone trying to support him or saying he would do a better job should just go root for him as an Asst for the Aggies.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

34, you lose credibility in your asinine rant, when you selectively pick His Worst years.

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He picked his last 7 years. Nothing selective about half his career.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

Look at the whole ball of wax. He won more games than any Coach in our history.

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With our history that doesn't mean much of anything than He was marginally better than everyone else that sucked or stuck around long enough. Not always something to hang your hat on.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

To assume that if He stayed He would have continued to have our program go down has no basis.

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The fact he was not hired as a head coach ANYWHERE shows noone believed in him.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

What is Alabama had fired Bear Bryant when He had a dip in the late 60's.

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You don't want to play what if's What if Sidney or someone else went off and shot and killed another player instead of just fighting.

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

Stansbury made MSU a Force in the SEC and He did it longer than any Coach in our History. He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that. What Strick did was awful.He is getting what He deserves, and the people that are suffering are the Bulldog Basketball Fans.

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He got more time than was needed. The ship had been sinking for a long time. I love Rick as a person and was around several of those later teams and It was getting worse. The inmates were running the asylum. It was time. Just let it go.

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Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Middle of the pack............looks mighty good compared to where we are now. You can't deny it or spin it.

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Has nothing to do with this thread

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Originally Posted by tcdog70

He should have been given another Year to right the Ship and if He couldn't then Fire Him. He deserved that.

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Why?! He had that year. 2011-2012 was that year, and he failed.

2012-2013 was going to be far less talented and experienced than the year before. So what on earth would make it make sense to give him that year if he had failed with the previous year?

Think about the CEO of a company who has had them on a steady track, but there began to be rumors of insubordination and internal strife while the performance of the company suffered. So the CEO cleans house, brings in guys with a better track record than the ones he had, and trains them up. Then with everything in place, the company continues to putter along below expectations.

You would give that guy one more year, knowing those talented employees were leaving, and less skilled, less experienced people were coming in? For what purpose?

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Originally Posted by ScoobaDawg

He picked his last 7 years. Nothing selective about half his career.

With our history that doesn't mean much of anything than He was marginally better than everyone else that sucked or stuck around long enough. Not always something to hang your hat on.


The fact he was not hired as a head coach ANYWHERE shows noone believed in him.

You don't want to play what if's What if Sidney or someone else went off and shot and killed another player instead of just fighting.



He got more time than was needed. The ship had been sinking for a long time. I love Rick as a person and was around several of those later teams and It was getting worse. The inmates were running the asylum. It was time. Just let it go.

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Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

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Yes. Even if Stans maintained his status quo of finishing at .500 in conference it was time. And I will not accept the notion we cannot ever do better than that position just because we haven't before. Thats an LT mindset.

Yes it was. But the Ray hire was .............. well you seeing the results now. Is his time to go?

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Originally Posted by MadDawg

Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we never get back to the level the former coach had us at, was it still time?

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Stans's worst was better than Ray's best. Case closed.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Has nothing to do with this thread

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It has everything to do with it. Do you prefer where we are now or where we were then? Simple question.

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Originally Posted by Political Hack

Stans's worst was better than Ray's best. Case closed.

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At what? Not in team discipline

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Originally Posted by Coach34

At what? Not in team discipline

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Ray would probably do pretty well at the YMCA where they focus more on discipline and sportsmanship and winning is a secondary consideration.