Good lord people. We just won our 40th game and Ross is a great pitcher. If you don't understand that I cannot help you.
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Good lord people. We just won our 40th game and Ross is a great pitcher. If you don't understand that I cannot help you.
Guy I put a lot of stats out there. It's not all part of some grand argument. They mean different things. A few weeks ago he had a low BABIP when I brought that up.
A different point is the one about wins and ERA. That goes for all pitchers.
A different stat is SIERA. That looks at just pitcher vs batter results. Not dependent on who is on base, fielders, etc.
I understand that. It's just that every time I get on a message board folks are wanting to argue over who's the most knowledgable. We just won our 40th game and should host a regional. It's time for some folks to be positive.
who said Ross Mitchell sux? Will James didnt....Quote:
Originally Posted by Requiem For A Dawg
Well, he actually has a very valid point there. More than 50% of the time- Mitchell allowed inherited runners to score. For a reliever, that's not good. It doesnt make a mother-**** what his ERA is. You bring relievers in to shut the door- not just give up inherited runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Holder's run in Game 2 didnt hurt his ERA either- but it was a very damn important inherited runner we needed to keep from scoring. That could have been a season changing run had we lost today also
These numbers are just for innings where they have entered, not innings they have started.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Ross. 14 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.93. Inherited runners: 29. Inherited runners scored:13. Inherited % score. 45%
Girodo. 12 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.75. Inherited runners: 17. Inherited runners scored: 5. Inherited % score: 29%
Holder. 11 appearances. Average # of outs when entering: 0.55. Inherited runners: 16. Inherited runners scored: 2. Inherited % score: 13%.
Like Coach says, it doesn't make a mother **** what any relief pitcher's ERA is. That's not their job.
ETA: In these situations Ross records an out in 74% of plate appearances. Girodo only 61%. But a lot more of Girodo's are K's which limits his runners from advancing/scoring.
Wow. Impressed with those stats. That is some interesting data, and makes me feel even better about wondering why we went with Ross with RISP instead of Girodo. Interesting. And good proof of your argument.
Me thinks if you would learn to present your data in a more humble and more easily understood way....you would be a great poster in their eyes.
I have learned to sift through the arrogance and self righteousness and see the points you are attempting to make....so I think you bring up great points and good info, and I actually agree with you on a majority of what you post. If everyone else would just quit worrying about the "look at me" parts of your posts, and focus on the facts, they would enjoy having you around.
One thing's for sure, Will wants MSU success as much or more than anyone else on this board. I can appreciate that.
It's important to pick the right stat too. If your point is that a pitcher allows a lot of inherited runners to score, it's a lot better and more relevant to use inherited runners and a stat called holds which is a cousin of saves rather than BABIP and SIERA.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Very true. Sometimes a mere explanation can be more effective than a bunch of stats anyway. At least at first. And then if others want to argue it, THEN pull out your stats. But again, make sure they are the right stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
BABIP and SIERA were different posts than this one. They weren't related points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I'm trying to help you out here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
There you go. You were correct that Ross Mitchell is not the best option out of the pen with runners on base.Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
You and Coach are wrong about a reliever's ERA not meaning anything, though. Mitchell's absolutely does because he is a long reliever who goes 3-6 innings all the time. Saying the amount of runs he gives up doesn't matter is stupid. I'm sure if you took only the innings he started himself his ERA would go from about 1.2 to 1.4. I know you don't believe in ERA, but that's beside the point. A guy like Mitchell's ERA does matter - it shows his value a lot more than a guy like Girodo who comes in for a couple of outs....if you want to dismiss his ERA that is fine.
P.S. Everyone knows this entire Ross Mitchell debate was interconnected. You changed your stance to derive at a point that would be accepted. You won't admit that since you won't admit to being wrong, but everyone knows it true - if I'm wrong someone call me out.
Conclusion: Ross Mitchell is an excellent (not lucky) pitcher who should only be brought in to start innings because he allows too many inherited runners to score.
There is a reason the 3 highest ERA's of qualified pitchers in SEC play are the starters.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
There is a reason that the 6 relief pitchers with the most appearances during the season all have lower ERA's than our starters.
That's not the only reason I dismiss ERA though.
Let me say it this way so we can all agree- ERA can be extremely misleading and never tells the entire story....example?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Holder ERA was over 3.00 earlier this year because of one bad outing in long relief that caused it to take a big climb. His ERA at that time was in no way indicative of the truly special closer he is.
I think you guys now see Will's point better, and that he is indeed correct- and he understands he can come off looking like a dick
These numbers for Ross, Chad, Holder, and BB are coming soonQuote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
I wholeheartedly agree with that statement with regards to relief pitchers, however not all relief pitchers are the same. Ross is basically in a category by himself on this team and that's the % of his innings logged where he has started and completed them. Hell, he has more innings than everyone on the team except for Graveman and Pollorena. He's pitched 15 more innings than Lindgren. If he was entering with 2 outs in the 7th and leaving with 1 out in the 8th it would be a lot different, but most of the time he's coming in during the 3rd or 4th and staying until the 7th or 8th, or even finishing the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
It's fun getting y'all all worked up.
SEC Only Numbers. These are just the innings started by each pitcher.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
Mitchell, R... 25.1 IP.. 7 ER.. 2.51 ERA.
Bracewell... 15.2 IP... 2 ER... 1.18 ERA.
Holder....... 10 IP... 1 ER...... 0.90 ERA.
Girodo....... 9.1 IP... 2 ER..... 1.98 ERA.
This is another meme. In his 15 SEC appearances he's only gone more than 3 innings 3 times.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries
This is why you have to look at the stats, everyone remembers the few times he's finished out long relief performances and that skews the overall body of work. This happens in all areas of sports. Like the Renfroe thing earlier in the year about RISP. At the point it was brought up the meme was that he hadnt been very good when in reality he was hitting .500 and had an OBP over .700. Now granted he's fallen off of that lately but at the time it was a meme based on feeling not on fact.
Here are the numbers when these 4 start AND finish an inning (because as you say the reliever coming in behind him should be able to shut the door) in SEC play-Quote:
Originally Posted by Will James
Mitchell.....24 IP....4 ER.....1.50 ERA
Bracewell....14 IP....0 ER.....0.00 ERA
Girodo.....7 IP.....0 ER.....0.00 ERA
Holder.....18 IP....1 ER....0.50 ERA
So, all of these pitchers are very good when starting and finishing their own innings. And If you take out that 3-run homer Mitchell gave up vs. Alabama his ERA is 0.39 (I say that because one bad inning is inflating it to a massive 1.50).