I'm really liking the way we are trending with QB's

[Coach34]

Signed Parson out of Tennessee
Bringing in the MC QB as a preferred WO
Now we are trying to pull Vandy's QB- Mike Wright

http://cfbstats.com/2022/player/736/1113992/passing/split.html

Ran for 500 yards this year

Love the way this is trending

[Dawgface]

You think we're getting him?

[Commercecomet24]

Wright would be a very good pull.

[Cowbell]

Why would he come here? Seriously?

[DownwardDawg]

Signed Parson out of Tennessee
Bringing in the MC QB as a preferred WO
Now we are trying to pull Vandy's QB- Mike Wright

http://cfbstats.com/2022/player/736/1113992/passing/split.html

Ran for 500 yards this year

Love the way this is trending
I like it too!!!!

KJ still sucks. Lol

[Msujd164]

And here we are. Excited about pulling Vandy players

[msu15]

And here we are. Excited about pulling Vandy players

Dude we have 2 scholarship QB's at the moment and one of them has been our starter for the last 2 and a half seasons. Wright would be an excellent pull to be our backup next year to allow Parson to redshirt.

[Commercecomet24]

Dude we have 2 scholarship QB's at the moment and one of them has been our starter for the last 2 and a half seasons. Wright would be an excellent pull to be our backup next year to allow Parson to redshirt.

Exactly.

[maroonmania]

And here we are. Excited about pulling Vandy players

Wright is a really good player on a bad team.

[DownwardDawg]

And here we are. Excited about pulling Vandy players

Would you be excited about pulling KJ from Arkansas? Asking for a friend.
Because Arkansas and KJ both absolutely sucked this year, and this message board would blow a wad if we pulled him from the juggernaut 6-6 razerbackses.

[State82]

Wright would be an excellent pull to be our backup next year to allow Parson to redshirt.

No doubt

[PikeDawg15]

Looks like ole miss is getting walker Howard

That is because everyone has been going after Spencer Sanders from Ok state

Was told by my barner Co worker that Auburn is most likely getting Sanders and that is why ole miss had to go for walker Howard . Ole miss was also recruiting Mike wright

In this new offense, I would have no problem if Mike Wright started for us.

[mo7888]

Signed Parson out of Tennessee
Bringing in the MC QB as a preferred WO
Now we are trying to pull Vandy's QB- Mike Wright

http://cfbstats.com/2022/player/736/1113992/passing/split.html

Ran for 500 yards this year

Love the way this is trending

The fact that we're 'excited' about this shows how far we've fallen in such a short amount of time..

[BuckyIsAB****]

Ill be shocked if the MC QB ever plays a snap

[msstate7]

Would you be excited about pulling KJ from Arkansas? Asking for a friend.
Because Arkansas and KJ both absolutely sucked this year, and this message board would blow a wad if we pulled him from the juggernaut 6-6 razerbackses.

KJ sec ranks/national ranks...
Comp %: 4th/11th
Yds/att: 3rd/11th
Passer rating: 2nd/8th
QBR: 4th/17th
Rushing: 12th

Will's sec/national ranks...
Comp %: 4th/11th
Yds/att: 11th/91st
Passer rating: 8th/51st
QBR: 9th/57th

The yds/att and comp % are interesting. KJ had the exact comp % despite throwing down field much farther as evident in yds/att

[bulldawg28]

Ill be shocked if the MC QB ever plays a snap

Agreed

[99jc]

And here we are. Excited about pulling Vandy players

if you don't think the Vandy qb is decent you don't follow college football

[RiverCityDawg]

Would you be excited about pulling KJ from Arkansas? Asking for a friend.
Because Arkansas and KJ both absolutely sucked this year, and this message board would blow a wad if we pulled him from the juggernaut 6-6 razerbackses.

KJ was great last year, and besides that I'm not sure what that has to do with the idea of Wright coming to be our backup. Apples and oranges.

[Dawgface]

If Wright comes I doubt he does so with the idea he will be a backup.

[Really Clark?]

The fact that we're 'excited' about this shows how far we've fallen in such a short amount of time..

We need a back up from the transfer portal. He is one of the better ones that we could potentially pull. Who do you think is better and we can actually get?

[mo7888]

We need a back up from the transfer portal. He is one of the better ones that we could potentially pull. Who do you think is better and we can actually get?
As another poster said above me....he's decent....we're excited about 'decent'... smdh...

[Really Clark?]

As another poster said above me....he's decent....we're excited about 'decent'... smdh...

Ok, who should we be excited for in the portal for a need that we have?

[msstate7]

As another poster said above me....he's decent....we're excited about 'decent'... smdh...

"Back up" is the key idea in the statement you quoted.

[Dawgface]

A qb that can move and run.....why wouldn't that be a good option? I hope Will adapts to the new system but if not we need options.

[mo7888]

"Back up" is the key idea in the statement you quoted.

Yep...but when you consider the fact that we wouldn't be looking for a backup like this if we'd made different personnel decisions...nor would we be have been fighting for tulu etc....it's 17ing depressing.... .. but yea...just be excited...I mean fb in the 70's was glorious...

[mo7888]

Ok, who should we be excited for in the portal for a need that we have?

Really Clark? We shouldn't need to be in the portal looking 'decent' backups.... but yet that's where we find ourselves...smh

[MaroonFlounder]

Does mike wright pass the ball better than terry wilson? LOL

[Really Clark?]

Yep...but when you consider the fact that we wouldn't be looking for a backup like this if we'd made different personnel decisions...nor would we be have been fighting for tulu etc....it's 17ing depressing.... .. but yea...just be excited...I mean fb in the 70's was glorious...

Tulu is irrelevant in this discussion and has nothing to with coaches.

What different personnel decisions should we have made? Oh you mean Hollingshead taking an OC job and let us know he was in talks prior to the bowl game. Well that's a silly take. What decision could we have made, he was leaving in his own.

Again, answer the question instead of pontificating gloom and doom, who should we be excited about trying to get from the portal that we could possibly pull?

[Really Clark?]

Really Clark? We shouldn't need to be in the portal looking 'decent' backups.... but yet that's where we find ourselves...smh

Hollingshead was leaving regardless, he became an OC. So it's a moot point you are trying to make. There was no different decision to make, he was making it on his own before the bowl game.

[BrunswickDawg]

Anyone who thinks we will have a QB any better than Wright transfer in this year with a 3 year starter in place needs a reality check. Even changing systems, Will is still the likely starter.
Wright brings SEC starting experience, mobility, and someone to challenge Will a la Jack Abraham

[mo7888]

Tulu is irrelevant in this discussion and has nothing to with coaches.

What different personnel decisions should we have made? Oh you mean Hollingshead taking an OC job and let us know he was in talks prior to the bowl game. Well that's a silly take. What decision could we have made, he was leaving in his own.

Again, answer the question instead of pontificating gloom and doom, who should we be excited about trying to get from the portal that we could possibly pull?

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

[Really Clark?]

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

Well you are clueless if you think this is a ground and pound system. Absolutely clueless.

But for argument sake...what Air Raid OC could we have hired with an equal resume or better? Name that OC that's so glaring to you that we missed on. If you are not putting forth names that's gives a comparison, than you are just regurgitating what you want inside your head without some possible concrete evidence that you could have a point.

[Tbonewannabe]

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

So we should have stuck to an offense that produced 1 TD against Bama (whose defense has been bad by Bama standards) in 3 years?

This prolific offense has struggled against good defenses and gained less offense than they were average giving up. The offense wasn't that good. Before Leach passed away most people thought we needed to change something because what we were doing wasn't working very well.

[KB21]

The fact that we're 'excited' about this shows how far we've fallen in such a short amount of time..

True. QB recruiting is about to take a serious nose dive.

[Dawgface]

So we should have stuck to an offense that produced 1 TD against Bama (whose defense has been bad by Bama standards) in 3 years?

This prolific offense has struggled against good defenses and gained less offense than they were average giving up. The offense wasn't that good. Before Leach passed away most people thought we needed to change something because what we were doing wasn't working very well.

If I remember correctly that 1 td was on the last play of the game this year. When bama had their reserves in the game.

[msstate7]

Lord knows I will rip into our coaches/programs when I feel it's deserved, but some of you are just terrible. I will at least give coaches the benefit of seeing them in actual games... to rip them without any evidence of failing is stupid.

[Cowbell]

Lord knows I will rip into our coaches/programs when I feel it's deserved, but some of you are just terrible. I will at least give coaches the benefit of seeing them in actual games... to rip them without any evidence of failing is stupid.

The more I read this board, the more I am convinced there is actually an extremely small percentage of fans that understand the game of football......

[StarkVegasSteve]

Wright will be fine. He was a backup at Vandy and he will be a backup here if he comes. It gives us protection if Will gets hurt so we would not have to throw Parson to the wolves as a true freshman

[CoachT14]

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

Clark already said it above, but I'm going to add again because it needs to be pointed out a lot. What modern AR guy did we miss out on (that we could've actually gotten) who has a track record of more than 1 year of success?

This honestly isn't even worthy of a response since you are calling this a ground and pound system, you're being intellectual dishonest because you can't actually argue that he's a bad OC hire.

I say all this to say, anyone who is still being extremely critical of Arnett at this point is either just mad in general that he's the guy or they have no idea what they are talking about related to football. I've been extremely critical of him lately, but said from the get go, if he hired a good OC I'd lay off. Barbay is just about as good as we could've hoped once you get past the Briles, Riley's, and Kittley's of the world.

[viverlibre]

Looks like ole miss is getting walker Howard



If he goes to UM, that would likely mean they promised him the starting role, then Jaxon Dart may end up in the portal (it opens again in May). Would we be happy with him?

[Really Clark?]

Some of y'all are more concerned about the Cult of Air Raid that you actually can't look past it. Fine. Heck I like the air raid. But don't be completely dishonest with your takes about this scheme or that philosophy. Barbay threw the ball more at CMU than Tenn did this past year. Actual throws and by percentage. 46 to 54 pass run. Tenn was 44 / 56.

[Homedawg]

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

So who was a downgrade? It's clear you have an opinion, which you're entitled to

[CoachT14]

If he goes to UM, that would likely mean they promised him the starting role, then Jaxon Dart may end up in the portal (it opens again in May). Would we be happy with him?

I think he'd be pretty good in this offense. He's fairly accurate down the field with the ball, while also getting pressured more than any other QB in the SEC except for King at aTm. He is definitely a gunslinger though and will make way more mistakes than Will. I highly doubt he transfers though, he's sitting whereever he would go I think.

[CoachT14]

Some of y'all are more concerned about the Cult of Air Raid that you actually can't look past it. Fine. Heck I like the air raid. But don't be completely dishonest with your takes about this scheme or that philosophy. Barbay threw the ball more at CMU than Tenn did this past year. Actual throws and by percentage. 46 to 54 pass run. Tenn was 44 / 56.

This. I imagine he won't have a legitimate response. There's really not an argument to be had that Barbay is a bad hire. Could there be? Of course, but that can't happen till later. He's had 2 really good offenses the last 2 years that have scored the ball a variety of ways.

I think we can all agree, we'd have rather had Riley or Kittley. But the reality is there aren't a ton of other modern AR guys near as good as Barbay. I'm sure we might get a Bryan Ellis or a Matt Mumme in the response. Well outside of putting up a ton of passing yards, those 2 suck at their jobs objectively speaking (To be fair, Ellis had a good year this with Clay Helton holding his hand). Hatcher could be considered too, but it's pretty obvious once Arnett got past Littrell, Kittley, and Riley he wanted to go with what he felt was the best offensive mind he could find. He went to Briles and unfortunately that didn't happen.

[mo7888]

Well you are clueless if you think this is a ground and pound system. Absolutely clueless.

But for argument sake...what Air Raid OC could we have hired with an equal resume or better? Name that OC that's so glaring to you that we missed on. If you are not putting forth names that's gives a comparison, than you are just regurgitating what you want inside your head without some possible concrete evidence that you could have a point.

60-40 run may not be ground and pound technically but it's close enough for hyperbole I'm using to illustrate our antiquated mindset.. and names...we went over that ad nauseum a few weeks ago...from Harrell, to Hatcher, to Littrell and so on...hell even a couple of guys on staff would be better than this cluster....

Clueless..that's reserved for you guys that don't realize that we've kept the same floor but lowered our ceiling....

[Coach34]

By the stat metrics- our OC hire is a Top 5 OC in the country. Some people just want to bitch because he simply isnt Leach.

We lost 2 offensive coaches because they wanted to be OC's themselves. They werent even considered to be OC at State nor should they have been
We lost 3 QB's- 2 of which were leaving regardless of coach. They wanted playing time and werent getting it here.

[Coach34]

60-40 run may not be ground and pound technically but it's close enough for hyperbole I'm using to illustrate our antiquated mindset.. .

Our new OC is not 60-40 run tho. That's why people are looking at you as a dumbass. You are making an argument that doesnt exist

[mo7888]

So who was a downgrade? It's clear you have an opinion, which you're entitled to

Pretty much everybody but Turner (for on field coaches..not including off the field roles that were an upgrade)..

And yes I understand that we were losing both Wr coaches if neither was hired as OC.. so the gripe there isn't that big... it's more philosophical that pure coaching ability... Friend is an Ok coach for this new system for instance but he's a downgrade there when you factor in the philosophy..

[mo7888]

True. QB recruiting is about to take a serious nose dive.

Absolutely...it's becoming clearer by the day..

[CoachT14]

60-40 run may not be ground and pound technically but it's close enough for hyperbole I'm using to illustrate our antiquated mindset.. and names...we went over that ad nauseum a few weeks ago...from Harrell, to Hatcher, to Littrell and so on...hell even a couple of guys on staff would be better than this cluster....

Clueless..that's reserved for you guys that don't realize that we've kept the same floor but lowered our ceiling....

A top 5 OC in the country statistically speaking is bad. Got it. You're either trolling or clueless. I'm going to say a little of both.

The only one on staff who had called plays was Miller and we all know he's not who you were mentioning as guys on staff.

[KB21]

Absolutely...it's becoming clearer by the day..

It's going to be hard to get good WRs as well.

[CoachT14]

Pretty much everybody but Turner (for on field coaches..not including off the field roles that were an upgrade)..

And yes I understand that we were losing both Wr coaches if neither was hired as OC.. so the gripe there isn't that big... it's more philosophical that pure coaching ability... Friend is an Ok coach for this new system for instance but he's a downgrade there when you factor in the philosophy..

Again please point out who we could've gotten better than Barbay. You can't. You'll continue ignoring this question.

[Really Clark?]

60-40 run may not be ground and pound technically but it's close enough for hyperbole I'm using to illustrate our antiquated mindset.. and names...we went over that ad nauseum a few weeks ago...from Harrell, to Hatcher, to Littrell and so on...hell even a couple of guys on staff would be better than this cluster....

Clueless..that's reserved for you guys that don't realize that we've kept the same floor but lowered our ceiling....

Considering he wasn't 60/40 at either CMU or App St, my point stands. You are clueless. He threw more than Tenn at CMU but keep avoiding the question of who we could have gotten. You still haven't or won't answer the question.

[CoachT14]

It's going to be hard to get good WRs as well.

I know right. We won't pass it 62.93041239842309% of the time so of course no one will want to play QB or WR for us and we will suck. Who cares if we score it 35 PPG.

[Bubb Rubb]

Signed Parson out of Tennessee
Bringing in the MC QB as a preferred WO
Now we are trying to pull Vandy's QB- Mike Wright

http://cfbstats.com/2022/player/736/1113992/passing/split.html

Ran for 500 yards this year

Love the way this is trending

It only gets exciting if Will is graciously set to the side. These other guys are completely different than Will stylistically. It feels like we'll still be trying to put that square peg in that round hole for the next year or two otherwise.

[Leroy Jenkins]

The answer is we shouldn't need to be looking for decent backups...but here we are... and the Hollingshead thing is irrelevant... we could have hired any coach that was air raid centric and avoided this bs...

What's silly is all of you guys thinking that we've upgraded our staff when we've downgraded... and it's just as silly to think going to a ground and pound system is some how going to improve our chances to compete for a championship when it eliminates it...that's silly or sad...you can pick...

https://i0.wp.com/www.themindsetjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Complaining-about-a-problem.jpg?fit=604%2C675&ssl=1

[Really Clark?]

It only gets exciting if Will is graciously set to the side. These other guys are completely different than Will stylistically. It feels like we'll still be trying to put that square peg in that round hole for the next year or two otherwise.

Why? Barbay doesn't need a running QB to run his offense.

[Bubb Rubb]

Some of y'all are more concerned about the Cult of Air Raid that you actually can't look past it. Fine. Heck I like the air raid. But don't be completely dishonest with your takes about this scheme or that philosophy. Barbay threw the ball more at CMU than Tenn did this past year. Actual throws and by percentage. 46 to 54 pass run. Tenn was 44 / 56.

Only at Mississippi State can we hire one of the top offensive coordinators in the country have fans shitting on it because they want to keep running the same inefficient offense that was stuck in neutral against every defense with a pulse.

[Commercecomet24]

https://i0.wp.com/www.themindsetjourney.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Complaining-about-a-problem.jpg?fit=604%2C675&ssl=1

There's been plenty of that around here the last couple of weeks.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It only gets exciting if Will is graciously set to the side. These other guys are completely different than Will stylistically. It feels like we'll still be trying to put that square peg in that round hole for the next year or two otherwise.

You may have to next year. Good OCs can adapt. So if we cannot get anyone we are confident can beat out Will AND make the offense better then you do what Dan did every year, take what your QB does best and tailor the offense around that.

[Homedawg]

It's going to be hard to get good WRs as well.

Why will it be harder here than ole miss? Or ark? Or any other similar program?? You're just beating your head against the wall throwing a fit bc we aren't true air raid! I would understand if we lit the sec up with it, but we didn't.

[Really Clark?]

Only at Mississippi State can we hire one of the top offensive coordinators in the country have fans shitting on it because they want to keep running the same inefficient offense that was stuck in neutral against every defense with a pulse.

Our fan base is...special. Lol

[CoachT14]

It only gets exciting if Will is graciously set to the side. These other guys are completely different than Will stylistically. It feels like we'll still be trying to put that square peg in that round hole for the next year or two otherwise.

As probably one of Will's harshest critics around here (Bucky can attest), he's going to be just fine in this offense (probably better than AR).

Richardson, CMU's QB with Barbay, is a worse athlete and thrower than Will and threw for 2,633 yards at 60.3% with 24 TDs to 6 Ints on a 8.3 yards per throw average.

Brice is more athletic than Will but has a similar arm (if not weaker) and threw for 2,921 yards at 62.8% with 27 TDs to 6 Ints on a 8.4 yards per throw average.

If they can do that, Will will throw for at least 3,000 plus and 30 TDs again. His completion % may go down some with the more throws down the field but that will be it.

[Bubb Rubb]

Why? Barbay doesn't need a running QB to run his offense.

No, he doesn't. But he will cater the offense to the QB, and Will is different from everyone else. So what happens if Will gets hurt? It's really hard to make those kinds of adjustments in-season. You kinda saw that at Arkansas when KJ got hurt.

So my point was, you want the same types of QBs so they can all come in and run the offense. We're going to have QBs with different skill sets.

[KB21]

I know right. We won't pass it 62.93041239842309% of the time so of course no one will want to play QB or WR for us and we will suck. Who cares if we score it 35 PPG.

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

[CoachT14]

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

https://media.tenor.com/hYiyFMeg8SoAAAAC/russell-westbrook-yawn.gif

[Really Clark?]

No, he doesn't. But he will cater the offense to the QB, and Will is different from everyone else. So what happens if Will gets hurt? It's really hard to make those kinds of adjustments in-season. You kinda saw that at Arkansas when KJ got hurt.

So my point was, you want the same types of QBs so they can all come in and run the offense. We're going to have QBs with different skill sets.

I see you what you are saying. Let's see who they bring in. I think Parson is different but he can sling it and you wouldn't have to change it much. Just add for his athleticism.

Honestly, I don't think we get Wright anyway. I look for him to go G5 to start. He would be good in a Mahlzon offense. But we need a back up and one with SEC or P5 playing experience would be hard to pass up right now.

[Bubb Rubb]

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

Who's running a pro style offense?

And we only scored 25PPG in the SEC last year, so I don't know why you're clamoring for that.

[Really Clark?]

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

He said PPG not SEC PPG. Don't try to change what he said.

[CoachT14]

Who's running a pro style offense?

And we only scored 25PPG in the SEC last year, so I don't know why you're clamoring for that.

Technically speaking it was like 20 PPG offensively. If we really want to get in the minutia of it.

[CoachT14]

I see you what you are saying. Let's see who they bring in. I think Parson is different but he can sling it and you wouldn't have to change it much. Just add for his athleticism.

Honestly, I don't think we get Wright anyway. I look for him to go G5 to start. He would be good in a Mahlzon offense. But we need a back up and one with SEC or P5 playing experience would be hard to pass up right now.

Wright is okay as a backup. He's well below average accuracy wise.

[Bubb Rubb]

Technically speaking it was like 20 PPG offensively. If we really want to get in the minutia of it.

Just off raw numbers it was about 33 PPG overall and 25 PPG against SEC defenses. Now, we can get into fair debates about whether Arkansas was really an SEC defense....

[KB21]

Who's running a pro style offense?

And we only scored 25PPG in the SEC last year, so I don't know why you're clamoring for that.

Barbay runs a pro style spread. It's Jim McElwain's offense. Barbay learned it from him and has carried it with him in his limited coordinator experience. The roots of this offense is actually in the old Dennis Erickson one back system. McElwain picked it up while working for John L Smith and Scott Linehan at Louisville. Barbay picked it up working for McElwain at Colorado State, Florida, and Central Michigan.

[Really Clark?]

Just off raw numbers it was about 33 PPG overall and 25 PPG against SEC defenses. Now, we can get into fair debates about whether Arkansas was really an SEC defense....

I think he's talking about the fact that defensive and special team scores are counted in those PPG numbers.

[CoachT14]

Just off raw numbers it was about 33 PPG overall and 25 PPG against SEC defenses. Now, we can get into fair debates about whether Arkansas was really an SEC defense....

5 of those PPG were the defense or special teams scores which is why I was saying 20 PPG offensively.

I agree about Arky lol.

[Bubb Rubb]

Barbay runs a pro style spread. It's Jim McElwain's offense. Barbay learned it from him and has carried it with him in his limited coordinator experience. The roots of this offense is actually in the old Dennis Erickson one back system. McElwain picked it up while working for John L Smith and Scott Linehan at Louisville. Barbay picked it up working for McElwain at Colorado State, Florida, and Central Michigan.

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. I'd gently recommend watching some game film.

This is the problem with people trying to put offenses in neat boxes with labels on them. That's your first mistake. If I HAD to label what Barbay is going to run, I would call it "veer and shoot" which is nothing close to "pro style." But his offense has air raid elements in it, spread elements in it, and some power run game elements in it, which was something sorely missing last year.

You're going to love it. It's just gonna take you two years to admit it and take that message board L.

[mo7888]

A top 5 OC in the country statistically speaking is bad. Got it. You're either trolling or clueless. I'm going to say a little of both.

The only one on staff who had called plays was Miller and we all know he's not who you were mentioning as guys on staff.

Miller actually was...

[mo7888]

It's going to be hard to get good WRs as well.

Truth

[Bubb Rubb]

5 of those PPG were the defense or special teams scores which is why I was saying 20 PPG offensively.

I agree about Arky lol.

Fair points, of course.

[Really Clark?]

Wright is okay as a backup. He's well below average accuracy wise.

I agree completely. Just hearing that he is looking at starting opportunities first. In a Mahlzon type of offense he may be better in overall but he would be a good back up.

[CoachT14]

He said PPG not SEC PPG. Don't try to change what he said.

It's the only way KB can argue. I don't really take him seriously anymore since he claimed that Bryan Ellis is a good OC because Clay Helton helped him call plays this year or that he links obscure stats blogs by random people as statistical analysis to backup he's thinking that the best teams throw it 65% of the time. When the reality is the best teams consistently throw it about 45-55% of the time.

[CoachT14]

Miller actually was...

https://media.tenor.com/ZuDD3_J09yYAAAAC/sure-jan.gif

Still waiting on all the coaches out there we could have gotten better than Barbay.

[Really Clark?]

Miller actually was...

Miller as OC over Barbay? That's an equal or better resume? Holy cow!!

[Really Clark?]

It's the only way KB can argue. I don't really take him seriously anymore since he claimed that Bryan Ellis is a good OC because Clay Helton helped him call plays this year or that he links obscure stats blogs by random people as statistical analysis to backup he's thinking that the best teams throw it 65% of the time. When the reality is the best teams consistently throw it about 45-55% of the time.

Lol. Like Tampa Bay last night. I was actually thinking of his insanity as they threw it 85% of the time last night while the Cowboys was whipping that butt at 50/50

[Homedawg]

LOL at the idea that Mississippi State is going to score 35 ppg in the SEC with a pro style offense.

And we did that w the air raid???

[Ari Gold]

Ill be shocked if the MC QB ever plays a snap


Neither was Greek or for that matter either Sawyer or Locke Were never going to play a snap either
So give me a guy that we might can move to another position or one that can run the scout team that?s mobile. Kind of hard to get ready for a mobile QB when you have Locke and Greek running the scout team

[Ari Gold]

And we did that w the air raid???

Exactly..

[mo7888]

Our new OC is not 60-40 run tho. That's why people are looking at you as a dumbass. You are making an argument that doesnt exist
According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

[mo7888]

https://media.tenor.com/ZuDD3_J09yYAAAAC/sure-jan.gif

Still waiting on all the coaches out there we could have gotten better than Barbay.

You can go back and drag it up if you want... I was in on Hatcher, Littrell, Harrell...pretty much any air raid guy that would bring in modern concepts.. I wasn't as high on SPJ, Hollingshead, or Miller for that role but if the option were to go to a run heavy offense like we're doing or take any one of those 3...I'd have taken any of them.. not as aprwfferd choice bit as being better than what we are currently doing..

[Bubb Rubb]

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

It's what the numbers bore out last year. That's not what he's been every year. He's demonstrated that he's much more balanced over his history, and it has been said by folks close to the ASU program that he wanted to throw it more but was limited by what the head coach wanted to do.

[CoachT14]

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

He was 47:53 Pass:Run at CMU. It was 43:57 at App State. That equals out to 45:55. That's almost a 10 runs to passes difference between 45:55 and 40:60, but you'd rather complain than be intellectually honest.

Barbay will be closer to 50:50 here if not closer to 55:45, if I had to guess.

[CoachT14]

You can go back and drag it up if you want... I was in on Hatcher, Littrell, Harrell...pretty much any air raid guy that would bring in modern concepts.. I wasn't as high on SPJ, Hollingshead, or Miller for that role but if the option were to go to a run heavy offense like we're doing or take any one of those 3...I'd have taken any of them.. not as aprwfferd choice bit as being better than what we are currently doing..

You've mentioned 1 guy that would have came here, so you're still ignoring the question. Barbay has 2 years of success at the P5 level. Hatcher doesn't. And I liked Hatcher, he was in my tier 2 names. But discount Barbay like you have is just idiotic at this point. He's easily in a Tier 2 conversation.

[mo7888]

He was 47:53 Pass:Run at CMU. It was 43:57 at App State. That equals out to 45:55. That's almost a 10 runs to passes difference between 45:55 and 40:60, but you'd rather complain than be intellectually honest.

Barbay will be closer to 50:50 here if not closer to 55:45, if I had to guess.

Here's hoping that you're right (55:45) but there's no metric that indicates that...

[KB21]

Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about. I'd gently recommend watching some game film.

This is the problem with people trying to put offenses in neat boxes with labels on them. That's your first mistake. If I HAD to label what Barbay is going to run, I would call it "veer and shoot" which is nothing close to "pro style." But his offense has air raid elements in it, spread elements in it, and some power run game elements in it, which was something sorely missing last year.

You're going to love it. It's just gonna take you two years to admit it and take that message board L.

It's clearly not veer and shoot. Barbay doesn't run the exaggerated wide splits at the WR spots, and he also doesn't have that style running game. He runs Jim McElwain's offense. It's a pro style offense based on a zone running game.

[Really Clark?]

According to the ESPN stats last season they ran 56.7% of the time.... so I'm in the ballpark there... so my position on tgat specific part isn't an argument really...it's just what the numbers bore out...

And at CMU? You keep leaving that off. Or the fact that Tenn ran the ball 56% of the time last year as well.

[mo7888]

You've mentioned 1 guy that would have came here, so you're still ignoring the question. Barbay has 2 years of success at the P5 level. Hatcher doesn't. And I liked Hatcher, he was in my tier 2 names. But discount Barbay like you have is just idiotic at this point. He's easily in a Tier 2 conversation.

I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

[KB21]

I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

[mo7888]

Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

Exactly

[KB21]

Exactly

The positive of this is that in two years, we can bring in Kittley or Riley as head coach and go back to the Air Raid.

[Coach34]

Yes. It's not the coach that is the issue. It's the system that is the issue. A pro style system is not going to give Mississippi State an edge.

It really doesnt matter. We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football. We havent beaten Bama since 2007 and wont anytime soon. We wont beat a Kirby Smart Georgia team. We're not going to beat an LSU team capable of winning the SEC. We have a few wins vs them when they fall back some from time to time.
We just have to remain a 6-8 win team and take advantage when we can win a 9th or 10th game every few years

[HancockCountyDog]

Our new OC is not 60-40 run tho. That's why people are looking at you as a dumbass. You are making an argument that doesnt exist

I think the numbers show that he is 55-45 run. A quick look at the numbers:

2022 - App State - roughly 55/45
2021 - Central Michigan - 52/48
2020 - Central Michigan - 61/39

I think he is really balanced, but he favors the run, which is fine by me. I think our program is built to run the ball. I hope we get a mobile QB and incorporate that into his offense. I haven't seen that yet, and I think that is crucial in success in the SEC for a team like ours.

[662dawg]

Clark already said it above, but I'm going to add again because it needs to be pointed out a lot. What modern AR guy did we miss out on (that we could've actually gotten) who has a track record of more than 1 year of success?

This honestly isn't even worthy of a response since you are calling this a ground and pound system, you're being intellectual dishonest because you can't actually argue that he's a bad OC hire.

I say all this to say, anyone who is still being extremely critical of Arnett at this point is either just mad in general that he's the guy or they have no idea what they are talking about related to football. I've been extremely critical of him lately, but said from the get go, if he hired a good OC I'd lay off. Barbay is just about as good as we could've hoped once you get past the Briles, Riley's, and Kittley's of the world.

And there's a possibility that he's just as good as those 3 once he gets the same caliber of talent they always have.

[HancockCountyDog]

Why will it be harder here than ole miss? Or ark? Or any other similar program?? You're just beating your head against the wall throwing a fit bc we aren't true air raid! I would understand if we lit the sec up with it, but we didn't.

Also, who were the big name WR's lining up to come play for a true Air Raid? I mean, our WR recruiting has been below average for quite some time. It didn't seem to make a difference that we were throwing it 50 times a game to HS receivers?

THe kid from Ridgeland is a damn stud, and he goes to a team that ran the ball 60/40 over a team that passed it 70/30. So yeah, I don't think the new offense will hurt our WR recruiting.

[Coach34]

I think the numbers show that he is 55-45 run. A quick look at the numbers:

2022 - App State - roughly 55/45
2021 - Central Michigan - 52/48
2020 - Central Michigan - 61/39

I think he is really balanced, but he favors the run, which is fine by me. I think our program is built to run the ball. I hope we get a mobile QB and incorporate that into his offense. I haven't seen that yet, and I think that is crucial in success in the SEC for a team like ours.

He wasnt the OC in 2020

[mo7888]

It really doesnt matter. We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football. We havent beaten Bama since 2007 and wont anytime soon. We wont beat a Kirby Smart Georgia team. We're not going to beat an LSU team capable of winning the SEC. We have a few wins vs them when they fall back some from time to time.
We just have to remain a 6-8 win team and take advantage when we can win a 9th or 10th game every few years

So the goal is mediocrity... then pretty much anybody who can run an organization efficiently can do that... Obviously, I disagree with your premise but, if that's you're goal then this will probably meet that low floor....

I do appreciate that honesty though...and that's not sarcasm..

[Really Clark?]

I'm not discounting Barbay...I'm not even saying he isn't a good OC... I'm saying his offense limits our ceiling in the long run and lowers our floor in the short term because our players don't fit...

You have no basis or metric that says it lowers our ceiling or floor. You think it will but there is no facts to back up your opinion. He may be horrible but you don't know that. His recent success flys in the face of your opinion.

All this still boils down to one thing. Several of you are absolutely devoted Air Raid followers. That's the only thing that matters to you. I follow State and not blindly following an offensive system.

[HancockCountyDog]

He wasnt the OC in 2020

Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

[Really Clark?]

Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

And his CMU year?

App St HC wanted it ran more and look at the 2 years prior run : pass percentage at App

[mo7888]

You have no basis or metric that says it lowers our ceiling or floor. You think it will but there is no facts to back up your opinion. He may be horrible but you don't know that. His recent success flys in the face of your opinion.

All this still boils down to one thing. Several of you are absolutely devoted Air Raid followers. That's the only thing that matters to you. I follow State and not blindly following an offensive system.

I don't know that he's horrible...and I don't claim that he is....but a metric to say it lowers our ceiling? Really Clark? Everybody on this board that's followed this team for 30 or 40 years has seen this metric play out....

I assume you're in the C34 boat and mediocrity is your goal too....we can reach that with this system and we can reach it with the AR....but the AR is the only that allows us the chance to do better than that... it's not an allegiance to ML... or a pure AR... it's about not being tied to mediocrity and liking it....

[KB21]

Ok - i still think he favors the run - he really did in the A&M game. Which is ok, hell I thought for sure you would be happy that we have a guy that is going to pound the rock.

I mean look at their wins:

A&M - 52 rushes - 30 passes
Troy - 34 rushes - 34 passes
Citadel - 26 rushes - 21 passes
Georgia State - 64 rushes - 17 passes
Robert Morris - 43 rushes - 29 passes
Old Dominion - 42 rushes - 21 passes

So by my quick math in their 6 wins - they rushed it 261 times and passed it 152.

That is a 64/36 run pass split.

I mean, its safe to say that what he wants to do is run the ball.

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

[662dawg]

Has anyone ever seen mo & KB in a room together at the same time?

[662dawg]

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

Know what's more like watching paint dry? Dump off passes to the running backs half the game & 3 yard slants the other half.

[Homedawg]

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

Leach's offense was what you just described. We just passed it. But paint drying a perfect way of describing it!

[KB21]

Leach's offense was what you just described. We just passed it. But paint drying a perfect way of describing it!

Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

[CoachT14]

Watching an offense that run heavy will be like watching paint dry. It's like bunting in baseball.

Because watching this offense the last 3 years against Top 80 defenses hasn’t been like watching paint dry right?

[Really Clark?]

I don't know that he's horrible...and I don't claim that he is....but a metric to say it lowers our ceiling? Really Clark? Everybody on this board that's followed this team for 30 or 40 years has seen this metric play out....

I assume you're in the C34 boat and mediocrity is your goal too....we can reach that with this system and we can reach it with the AR....but the AR is the only that allows us the chance to do better than that... it's not an allegiance to ML... or a pure AR... it's about not being tied to mediocrity and liking it....

It's just foolish to believe that Air Raid is the only offense we can run to not be avg. And if that's your selling point, the last 3 years didn't get it done either. We have been average to below average for the last 3 years with the Air Raid. How bout we just hire the best offensive mind we can without it having to be a certain system. Especially since there was not 1 legitimate AR guy available fot us to hire. Harrell, already at another school. Littrell, turned us down. Kittley, turned us down. Hatcher, wasn't leaving a HC position. At the end of the day, staying AR wasn't happening because there was no one realistically available.

[Coach34]

So the goal is mediocrity... then pretty much anybody who can run an organization efficiently can do that... Obviously, I disagree with your premise but, if that's you're goal then this will probably meet that low floor....

I do appreciate that honesty though...and that's not sarcasm..

You just have to be based in reality. We weren't going to win anything with the AR either. Any defense with a pulse shut it down. 1 TD in garbage time in 3 years vs Bama. 1 offensive TD vs Georgia this year.

We havent won the SEC since 1941. We arent going to win in my lifetime. It is what it is.

[Really Clark?]

Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

Like Tampa throwing it 85% of the time last night. That's was fun for you I'm sure.

[mo7888]

Has anyone ever seen mo & KB in a room together at the same time?

Actually, I believe we were on the opposite sides of this argument back on the board Paul ran before he joined scout... that's a long time..

[Bubb Rubb]

It's clearly not veer and shoot. Barbay doesn't run the exaggerated wide splits at the WR spots, and he also doesn't have that style running game. He runs Jim McElwain's offense. It's a pro style offense based on a zone running game.

Did you not even read my post about putting labels on offenses?

With all due respect, you are way out of your depth on this topic.

[Coach34]

Because watching this offense the last 3 years against Top 80 defenses hasn’t been like watching paint fry right?

that is hilarious. Watching the last 3 seasons on offense has been awful. I've changed the channel to watch other games numerous times. The Air Bone was painful to watch. It was like watching the 3-2 Croom game over and over every week.

[CoachT14]

Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

The last 3 years, we averaged almost as many yards per run as we did per pass. We weren’t the least explosive offense in the SEC and one of the least explosive offenses in the NCAA for nothing.

[mo7888]

The last 3 years, we averaged almost as many yards per run as we did per pass. We weren’t the least explosive offense in the SEC and one of the least explosive offenses in the NCAA for nothing.

But you guys act like that was the 'culmination' of the AR or something and that's disingenuous.... at the very least the AR needs a vertical threat...and in today's game it also needs a QB that can make 7-10 plays per game with his feet. We didn't have that but we were working and recruiting towards that.

[confucius say]

Anyone who thinks we will have a QB any better than Wright transfer in this year with a 3 year starter in place needs a reality check. Even changing systems, Will is still the likely starter.
Wright brings SEC starting experience, mobility, and someone to challenge Will a la Jack Abraham

And OM has an entrenched 5 star starter and another 5 star from lsu is willing to transfer in.

[KB21]

Did you not even read my post about putting labels on offenses?

With all due respect, you are way out of your depth on this topic.

I'm not going to misrepresent what an offense is just because I want it to work out at Mississippi State. Barbay runs a pro style offense. Full stop. There is no reason to try and say it isn't a pro style offense. It flat out is. He runs Jim McElwain's offense.

[KB21]

But you guys act like that was the 'culmination' of the AR or something and that's disingenuous.... at the very least the AR needs a vertical threat...and in today's game it also needs a QB that can make 7-10 plays per game with his feet. We didn't have that but we were working and recruiting towards that.

Things are going to get better now though. We are running Jim McElwain's pro style system now, and we all know that Jim is a better offensive mind than Mike Leach or any of Mike's former assistants.

[mo7888]

Things are going to get better now though. We are running Jim McElwain's pro style system now, and we all know that Jim is a better offensive mind than Mike Leach or any of Mike's former assistants.

Of course, it doesn't matter that it's closer to what Croom ran than any other coach we've had before... it's like communism...it just hasn't been tried right....

[KB21]

Of course, it doesn't matter that it's closer to what Croom ran than any other coach we've had before... it's like communism...it just hasn't been tried right....

Got to have that power running game though.

[Really Clark?]

And OM has an entrenched 5 star starter and another 5 star from lsu is willing to transfer in.

How big of check can you write to up our BI?

[Bubb Rubb]

I'm not going to misrepresent what an offense is just because I want it to work out at Mississippi State. Barbay runs a pro style offense. Full stop. There is no reason to try and say it isn't a pro style offense. It flat out is. He runs Jim McElwain's offense.

Just because you read it somewhere doesn't make it true. Using a label like "pro style" means nothing. In fact, it's stupid. Define pro style. You can't put it in a box. And to say he simply runs Jim McElwain's offense, when he's done different things offensively everywhere he's been shows the profound lack of knowledge and common sense needed to have a debate on this. Then to say "full stop" like that's going to end the debate really shows how much of a tool you are.

My advice is to put your bias aside and educate yourself with an open mind on this subject, or even better, stick to a subject you know something about.

[Homedawg]

Nonsense. Leach's offense is thoroughly enjoyable to watch. The opportunities for big plays were there, but I definitely prefer to get 6-8 yards per pass in the passing game rather than 3-4 per run in the running game.

Now, you're telling me what I think? great. It was boring as shit. And not overly effective.

[Really Clark?]

Of course, it doesn't matter that it's closer to what Croom ran than any other coach we've had before... it's like communism...it just hasn't been tried right....

You are honestly comparing it to Croom offense? Thats absurd

[KB21]

Now, you're telling me what I think? great. It was boring as shit. And not overly effective.

Well, yeah. If you have the mindset that you have to run the ball to win, which is a philosophy that has been proven false by analytics, then I can see why you were bored with an offense that passed it with volume.

[Really Clark?]

Well, yeah. If you have the mindset that you have to run the ball to win, which is a philosophy that has been proven false by analytics, then I can see why you were bored with an offense that passed it with volume.

Yeah except for Tampa Bay, they need there money back on those analytics

[mo7888]

You are honestly comparing it to Croom offense? Thats absurd

No...I'm not saying its similar to the Croom O. .. but don't let that get in the way of your bs narrative.

[mo7888]

Yeah except for Tampa Bay, they need there money back on those analytics

You do realize that the talent disparity in the NFL isn't the same as the SEC right?

[Coach34]

And OM has an entrenched 5 star starter and another 5 star from lsu is willing to transfer in.

Who cant even get back-up reps at LSU

[KB21]

Just because you read it somewhere doesn't make it true. Using a label like "pro style" means nothing. In fact, it's stupid. Define pro style. You can't put it in a box. And to say he simply runs Jim McElwain's offense, when he's done different things offensively everywhere he's been shows the profound lack of knowledge and common sense needed to have a debate on this. Then to say "full stop" like that's going to end the debate really shows how much of a tool you are.

My advice is to put your bias aside and educate yourself with an open mind on this subject, or even better, stick to a subject you know something about.

So, tell me exactly what is different between Barbay's offense and McElwain's offense.

[Homedawg]

Well, yeah. If you have the mindset that you have to run the ball to win, which is a philosophy that has been proven false by analytics, then I can see why you were bored with an offense that passed it with volume.

I'm not hung up on any offense. You are. You want AR or bust. But it's clear you are John Cohen. Smartest and only guy in the room.

[R2Dawg]

As another poster said above me....he's decent....we're excited about 'decent'... smdh...

An SEC starter to be a backup; sounds like an amazing transfer to me. Who else in SEC has brought in an SEC QB starter to be a backup?

[Really Clark?]

No...I'm not saying its similar to the Croom O. .. but don't let that get in the way of your bs narrative.

Jackie was closer to what Croom ran than Barbay so it wasn't a narrative of mine, it was a false statement of yours for your narrative

[CoachT14]

Our PPG the last 3 years against Top 80 defenses:

2020: 13 PPG
2021: 25.9 PPG
2022: 24 PPG

Total PPG in 3 years: 20.9 PPG against top 80 defenses.

The sad part is that I believe the offense could be better with a modern look, but KB and Mo are making it hard to argue for it. Plays have been there to be made the last 3 years.

[Bubb Rubb]

So, tell me exactly what is different between Barbay's offense and McElwain's offense.

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/896/332/1b1.gif

[Really Clark?]

You do realize that the talent disparity in the NFL isn't the same as the SEC right?

You realize that a lot of KB21 arguments and links of analytics were with NFL stats and opinions, correct?

[Coach34]

So, tell me exactly what is different between Barbay's offense and McElwain's offense.

What's different between Leach and Lincoln Riley's AR?

[CoachT14]

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/896/332/1b1.gif

His understanding of football is purely through an analytics lens. There’s nothing wrong with that, he just doesn’t realize that going all in 1 way or the other (analytics - no analytics) is doomed to fail. As a coach, numbers are huge in helping me gauge certain things, but I also understand that each situation has to have a certain level of feel and understanding to work

[R2Dawg]

Well, yeah. If you have the mindset that you have to run the ball to win, which is a philosophy that has been proven false by analytics, then I can see why you were bored with an offense that passed it with volume.

If that is true then everyone would be just passing. If that is true then no one would have altered the true air raid - you know all those disciples. They changed for an obvious reason. If we were so good on O then why were we not #1 in SEC? If we were top O in league, then I would say stay with it, but we ain't.

[Bubb Rubb]

His understanding of football is purely through an analytics lens. There’s nothing wrong with that, he just doesn’t realize that going all in 1 way or the other (analytics - no analytics) is doomed to fail. As a coach, numbers are huge in helping me gauge certain things, but I also understand that each situation has to have a certain level of feel and understanding to work

Here's where it's flawed: He's taken a data point: 57% run last year, and he's added two things he's read from the internet: "Jim McElwain disciple" and "pro style offense" (even though the article where he read that, he left off the "balanced, attacking" part before it). Then he's used that to formulate an opinion: "Barbay runs Jim McElwain's run-heavy pro style offense." He doesn't take into account undeniable facts, like Barbay having coaching experience prior to working with McElwain, or his offense being different year by year depending on his personnel. He just went out and found a couple of data points and opinions to validate his narrative, which is that we need to be running the Leach air raid (which is an unintelligent take in and of itself). When he's cautioned not to get caught up in labels like "pro style" because this offense uses many different philosophical elements, his response is "nope, it's pro style, full stop."

Don't make excuses for him. He's an idiot and he's proving it with every subsequent post he makes on this topic.

[KB21]

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/896/332/1b1.gif

I'm not the one being lazy. I'm not the one that believes Barbay just made up his own offense after working with McElwain for several years. I am the one that has gone back to look at what McElwain did at Fresno State, Alabama, Colorado State, and Florida and compared it to what Barbay has done at CMU (under McElwain I might add), and you know what. It's the exact same offense. Same pass concepts. Same zone based running game. Same base personnel packages. Same play calling terminology.

[Bubb Rubb]

I'm not the one being lazy. I'm not the one that believes Barbay just made up his own offense after working with McElwain for several years. I am the one that has gone back to look at what McElwain did at Fresno State, Alabama, Colorado State, and Florida and compared it to what Barbay has done at CMU (under McElwain I might add), and you know what. It's the exact same offense. Same pass concepts. Same zone based running game. Same base personnel packages. Same play calling terminology.

What, were you on all those coaching staffs? Otherwise you're talking out of your ass here.

[662dawg]

What's different between Leach and Lincoln Riley's AR?

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

[viverlibre]

And OM has an entrenched 5 star starter and another 5 star from lsu is willing to transfer in.

If Walker comes in, he's been guaranteed the starting job, that means Dart may be looking to transfer.

[CoachT14]

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

Ole Miss must have won since they ran it that much. Every time teams run it more than 32% of the time they lose. Or at least that's KB told me.

[KB21]

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

My guess is, you didn't watch Kittley's offenses at Houston Baptist or Western Kentucky.

[KB21]

https://twitter.com/Wrogers__2/status/1615419405302697993?s=20&t=yHEsU05-ZPdxy9uA2wlEMA

[662dawg]

Ole Miss must have won since they ran it that much. Every time teams run it more than 32% of the time they lose. Or at least that's KB told me.

Ole miss did in fact get murdered that game.

[662dawg]

My guess is, you didn't watch Kittley's offenses at Houston Baptist or Western Kentucky.

I don't need to. He knew he had to run the ball more when he became a coordinator at a power 5 school & that's exactly what he did. You're making my point.

Barbay's offenses have been highly successful & he's one of the top OC's in the country.

[CoachT14]

Ole miss did in fact get murdered that game.

https://media.giphy.com/media/aWPGuTlDqq2yc/giphy.gif

KB right now!

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NeedyJitteryGoshawk-size_restricted.gif

[Really Clark?]

If Walker comes in, he's been guaranteed the starting job, that means Dart may be looking to transfer.

Dart has to sit a year if he transfers again

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't need to. He knew he had to run the ball more when he became a coordinator at a power 5 school & that's exactly what he did. You're making my point.

Barbay's offenses have been highly successful & he's one of the top OC's in the country.

He's not one of the "top OCs in the country". He's just not. He wouldn't be at App State if that was the case. By that same token, he also isn't terrible. We're not going from Wide Open Air Raid to running Croom's version of the WC Offense. Barbay is a solid OC and we could've done worse. I expect that this year we'll tailor the offense to Will. Maybe a read option here or there and no designed QB runs. This offense will always be Pistol or shotgun 98% of the time. Once Will moves on, I do expect us to incorporate more read options and maybe some Veer and Shoot elements. He's not going to run McElwain's offense to a T. All that offense is is what Bama ran prior to opening it up and spreading the ball around. You can't win with that offense anymore.

[KB21]

I don't need to. He knew he had to run the ball more when he became a coordinator at a power 5 school & that's exactly what he did. You're making my point.

Barbay's offenses have been highly successful & he's one of the top OC's in the country.

Wrong. Kittley knew his QB wasn't a very good passer this year at Texas Tech, and when they get a better passer, those pass numbers will start to trend upward. WKU threw it 697 times last year with Kittley calling plays and 623 times this year with Arbuckle, who is the guy we should have hired. Kittley has been above 63% pass calls in every year except this past season with a bad QB.

[662dawg]

Wrong. Kittley knew his QB wasn't a very good passer this year at Texas Tech, and when they get a better passer, those pass numbers will start to trend upward. WKU threw it 697 times last year with Kittley calling plays and 623 times this year with Arbuckle, who is the guy we should have hired. Kittley has been above 63% pass calls in every year except this past season with a bad QB.

UNTIL he became a power 5 coordinator.

[Coach34]

UNTIL he became a power 5 coordinator.

Bingo

[662dawg]

He's not one of the "top OCs in the country". He's just not. He wouldn't be at App State if that was the case. By that same token, he also isn't terrible. We're not going from Wide Open Air Raid to running Croom's version of the WC Offense. Barbay is a solid OC and we could've done worse. I expect that this year we'll tailor the offense to Will. Maybe a read option here or there and no designed QB runs. This offense will always be Pistol or shotgun 98% of the time. Once Will moves on, I do expect us to incorporate more read options and maybe some Veer and Shoot elements. He's not going to run McElwain's offense to a T. All that offense is is what Bama ran prior to opening it up and spreading the ball around. You can't win with that offense anymore.

He was still at App st because it was only his second year being an OC. He's a very bright offensive mind & by most every metric he was a top 5 offensive coordinator. I guess we're about to see how well Arnett is at his new job.

Watching film, Barbay's offense is pretty exciting & that's something our offense has severely lacked the past 3 years.

[KB21]

UNTIL he became a power 5 coordinator.

Because power 5 coordinators are idiots that believe running the ball and establishing the run is important?

[Really Clark?]

Wrong. Kittley knew his QB wasn't a very good passer this year at Texas Tech, and when they get a better passer, those pass numbers will start to trend upward. WKU threw it 697 times last year with Kittley calling plays and 623 times this year with Arbuckle, who is the guy we should have hired. Kittley has been above 63% pass calls in every year except this past season with a bad QB.

So Kittley is a ground and pound guy. Got it.

You can't start arguing personnel when your unmoving stance is a team has to throw it 85% of the time because running the ball is a waste the vast majority of the time. That's what you have said over and over and over.

[Jack Lambert]

True. QB recruiting is about to take a serious nose dive.

We have had a lot of 3-star QB's start with 4-star QB's as backups.

[Really Clark?]

Because power 5 coordinators are idiots that believe running the ball and establishing the run is important?

So Kittley is an idiot because he coached for a P5 team and ran the ball more but a genius coaching FCS and G5 teams because he threw it more. That's your stance?

[662dawg]

Because power 5 coordinators are idiots that believe running the ball and establishing the run is important?

You have to be an AI generated bot. My lord.

[KB21]

So Kittley is an idiot because he coached for a P5 team and ran the ball more but a genius coaching FCS and G5 teams because he threw it more. That's your stance?

No, that's clearly not what I'm saying. Kittley had to offset the fact that he had a poor, inaccurate passer at QB, but he still maintained a pass first mentality with his play calling. His passing game still set up his running game. When Kittley had a very good QB in Bailey Zappe, he threw the ball.

[Op4isabitch]

I?m convinced that some of these dumbass comments are from Rebel trolls that have infiltrated our board. They get like this every time MSU kicks that ass.

[662dawg]

No, that's clearly not what I'm saying. Kittley had to offset the fact that he had a poor, inaccurate passer at QB, but he still maintained a pass first mentality with his play calling. His passing game still set up his running game. When Kittley had a very good QB in Bailey Zappe, he threw the ball.

But Donovan Smith was a 67% passer last year & Kittley ended up going with 59% passer Tyler Shough by the end of the year bc he was a better runner & that's when they went on their big winning streak to end the season. Weird huh?

And during thier 4 game winning streak to end the year against good power 5 teams, they ran the ball 64% & passed it 36% of the time. Interesting.

But please don't let the facts stand in your way.

[662dawg]

No, that's clearly not what I'm saying. Kittley had to offset the fact that he had a poor, inaccurate passer at QB, but he still maintained a pass first mentality with his play calling. His passing game still set up his running game. When Kittley had a very good QB in Bailey Zappe, he threw the ball.

And fwiw I'm a huge Coach Leach fan. Love the air raid. Wish we could have kept a version of it, but I'm also realistic. Nobody runs the air raid like Leach did. It died when he passed away. It's been modernized & turned into a more balance offense. I also really like Barbay's offensive scheme as it is proven to be much more explosive than the air raid, especially the one we've seen the past 3 years.

[KB21]

And fwiw I'm a huge Coach Leach fan. Love the air raid. Wish we could have kept a version of it, but I'm also realistic. Nobody runs the air raid like Leach did. It died when he passed away. It's been modernized & turned into a more balance offense. I also really like Barbay's offensive scheme as it is proven to be much more explosive than the air raid, especially the one we've seen the past 3 years.

Yay pro style offense that requires you to have a significant talent advantage to have success!!!

[662dawg]

Yay pro style offense that requires you to have a significant talent advantage to have success!!!

Man you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's no way you've watched any of Barbay's film from the past two seasons.

[HancockCountyDog]

So any word on Wright. We do need a backup QB.

[KB21]

Man you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. There's no way you've watched any of Barbay's film from the past two seasons.

So, you are trying to say that Barbay doesn't run a pro style offense, and his background isn't in a pro style offense?

[paverdog]

i was just tired of the three yard passes, just was boring and to easy to defend.

[662dawg]

So, you are trying to say that Barbay doesn't run a pro style offense, and his background isn't in a pro style offense?

Barbay runs a mixture of several different types of offenses. I wouldn't call it one over the other. He seems to be pretty versatile. You have either not watched any film, you're a troll or you have no idea what you're talking about & are just throwing sh!+ against the wall and hoping it sticks.

[Commercecomet24]

I?m convinced that some of these dumbass comments are from Rebel trolls that have infiltrated our board. They get like this every time MSU kicks that ass.

100%. Brand new posters, posters that haven't posted in months and in some cases years been showing up the last 2 weeks.

[PMDawg]

Yay pro style offense that requires you to have a significant talent advantage to have success!!!

Somebody let Jimbo know that App State is way more talented than his A&M squad that has been recruiting in the top 10 for the last several years.

[TrapGame]

Barbay runs a mixture of several different types of offenses. I wouldn't call it one over the other. He seems to be pretty versatile. You have either not watched any film, you're a troll or you have no idea what you're talking about & are just throwing sh!+ against the wall and hoping it sticks.

This dude is 100% a troll. If you can't tell by the way he's phrasing some of his questions. This thread has gone on way too long because of him being a churlish troll.

[PikeDawg15]

I think he'd be pretty good in this offense. He's fairly accurate down the field with the ball, while also getting pressured more than any other QB in the SEC except for King at aTm. He is definitely a gunslinger though and will make way more mistakes than Will. I highly doubt he transfers though, he's sitting whereever he would go I think.

This thread has blown up overnight because it is the same ones bitching and arguing about the air raid.

What sucks is no matter what Jaxson Dart can not transfer anywhere until he graduates ole miss or Lane kiffin leaves ole miss

What I was told was that the deal is that walker Howard is getting paid $150k NIL this year to come in and sit the bench one season and then jaxson dart will enter the NFL draft after this season

[KB21]

Barbay runs a mixture of several different types of offenses. I wouldn't call it one over the other. He seems to be pretty versatile. You have either not watched any film, you're a troll or you have no idea what you're talking about & are just throwing sh!+ against the wall and hoping it sticks.

https://theathletic.com/1600862/2020/02/14/shawn-clark-appalachian-state-new-head-coach-interview/

We’ll be similar in some ways to the past, we’ll change some things. We’ll always have a downhill running game, a pro-style offense that will stretch the field vertically,

https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2015/10/9/9483321/breaking-down-mcelwains-machinations-at-florida-Gators-Will-Grier

The Gators are rolling on offense as McElwain has found the roster perfectly suitable for his clever, pro-style system.

https://www.actionnetwork.com/ncaaf/college-football-odds-pick-central-michigan-chippewas-vs-northern-illinois-huskies-betting-november-11

The biggest key to their quick turnaround was the complete revamping of the offense. McElwain brought in former MAC legend Charlie Frye as offensive coordinator, and the new pro-style offense doubled the team’s scoring average, as it went from 15.0 points per game in 2018 (worst in the MAC) to 30.4 in 2019 (fifth).

And I'm supposed to believe that Kevin Barbay left a pro style offense, went to a team whose coach says they will always be pro style, and he just decided that he's not running a pro style offense anymore.

[PikeDawg15]

I don?t know who needs to hear this but I?ve seen some messages about it on here and I?m not reading every one of them.

But the Texas Tech OC WAS NOT EVER AND WILL NOT EVER LEAVE TEXAS TECH TO COME TO THE SAME POSITION AT MISSISSIPPI STATE. it was not going to happen. He is an alum of Texas tech and the only way he leaves them for us is if we gave him the Head Coaching job

Maybe if he was not an alum he would come here if we were willling to throw 1.7 or 1.8 million at him per year but he is going to be paid really good at Texas tech and coach for his alma mater until he gets a head coaching job.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Not to derail this wonderful thread about an offense we've never seen run with our personnel, but Jake Garcia just entered the portal. We need to be all over him too. He's the type of QB we need for this offense.

[Coursesuper]

This thread has completely gone to shat.

[Homedawg]

So any word on Wright. We do need a backup QB.

He wants to come in and start. That doesn't help our chances.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This thread has completely gone to shat.

Every thread on here involving football since the KB rumors has completely gone to shat.

[Homedawg]

This thread has completely gone to shat.

Bc kb got tired of getting drilled on genespage and brought the crap here

[confucius say]

If Walker comes in, he's been guaranteed the starting job, that means Dart may be looking to transfer.

He's already transferred. And the ncaa just said no more two transfers absent what basically amounts to exigency circumstances.

[Dawgface]

Dumb question. What is the time frame on getting a portal person signed so they can participate in Spring practice?

[Really Clark?]

Dumb question. What is the time frame on getting a portal person signed so they can participate in Spring practice?

That's really dependent on the school and how late they will allow someone to register for the spring. I think about as late we can go is last day of the month, maybe Feb 1st.

[MedDawg]

Of course, it doesn't matter that it's closer to what Croom ran than any other coach we've had before... it's like communism...it just hasn't been tried right....

Croom had offenses in the 100s. In 2022 our offense was #62. In 2022 Barbay and App State were #26.

[mo7888]

Croom had offenses in the 100s. In 2022 our offense was #62. In 2022 Barbay and App State were #26.

I shouldn't even reply to this dumb crap but, the reference was pertaining to style not production and they myriad of factors that effect it....like talent disparity between the teams listed etc... Croom ran (or gave lip service to running) a pro style offense and so does Barbay. That's the reference...

[MedDawg]

I shouldn't even reply to this dumb crap but, the reference was pertaining to style not production and they myriad of factors that effect it....like talent disparity between the teams listed etc... Croom ran (or gave lip service to running) a pro style offense and so does Barbay. That's the reference...

Well his pro style was better than our air raid. And many other air raids.

[662dawg]

I shouldn't even reply to this dumb crap but, the reference was pertaining to style not production and they myriad of factors that effect it....like talent disparity between the teams listed etc... Croom ran (or gave lip service to running) a pro style offense and so does Barbay. That's the reference...

This is the dumbest argument yet lol. I don't give a dam if he runs a version of the pee wee wing T as long as we're scoring points & winning football games. As much as I liked Leach no one can argue that our offense was fun to watch the past 3 years. And the stats back up my statement.

[yjnkdawg]

Trolls gonna troll. That's just the nature and makeup of a troll. That's why this thread is so long and it got hijacked. Pro style offense. lol :rolleyes:

[yjnkdawg]

100%. Brand new posters, posters that haven't posted in months and in some cases years been showing up the last 2 weeks.

Agree 100% CC..........It's amazing how when posters (trolls) come out of the woodwork or from under their rock they always post something negative concerning our athletic programs. Never anything positive.

[mo7888]

This is the dumbest argument yet lol. I don't give a dam if he runs a version of the pee wee wing T as long as we're scoring points & winning football games. As much as I liked Leach no one can argue that our offense was fun to watch the past 3 years. And the stats back up my statement.

Are we just gonna keep going in circles as you defend mediocrity?

The point of my position pertaining to a pro style offense is two-fold 1) one to point out the irony that the last time we ran one Croom was here and 2) to point out that pro style offense won't work here to the level of success that I'd like to see us strive for...

Also

You geniuses keep pointing out the issue with the AR like we've seen the AR in It's fullest form and that disingenuous at best. The AR needs to be able to spread the field horizontally with the short pass and stretch it vertically with a QB with adequate arm strength. We currently don't have that. It also looks like Leach was trying to incorporate more athleticism at the position judging by his recruiting... That's where we were trying to get to with our next QB.

The bottom line is we have different perspectives. Many of you don't believe we will ever be able to compete for an SEC championship and that mentality pushes you in a conservative direction where you want an offense that sees mediocrity as a ceiling.... I want an offense that sees mediocrity as a floor....

You guys got what you wanted...

[Coursesuper]

Agree 100% CC..........It's amazing how when posters (trolls) come out of the woodwork or from under their rock they always post something negative concerning our athletic programs. Never anything positive.

I for one don?t care if a poster is negative or positive there can be an opposite points of view. But when you are a dick for the sake of being a dick, 17em.

[Tim the ToolMan]

Long time listener...first time caller here...good Lord 2 of yall make me wish I never got on this site..

[Todd4State]

My two cents:

I hope Barbay actually adjusts to our personnel. I'll believe it when I see it. Relying on Woody for about 35% of our touches probably isn't a great idea if we want him to make it through the season.

I have a feeling this is going to go one of two ways. Barbay will actually adjust and we pass about 60% of the time and we put up better numbers because of what we return or we're around 45/55 and it ends up about the same or worse than this year. Let's hope it's the first. But having been a MSU fan my whole life I'm expecting square peg and round hole and let's just blame Will for it.

All the metric stuff I'm taking with a big grain of salt because that was with different players. Players are who makes things work. And if we don't find a deep threat alpha at WR his deep shots aren't going to work all that well.

That said as far as analytics go you're better off passing in literally every situation other than third and one and in the fourth quarter when you are trying to run the clock out. So as "bad" as we were we were also probably at least maximizing the talent that we had. Or close to it.

At any rate I figure Barbay will be here about 2-3 years max good, bad, ugly.

/rant over

[CoachT14]

I shouldn't even reply to this dumb crap but, the reference was pertaining to style not production and they myriad of factors that effect it....like talent disparity between the teams listed etc... Croom ran (or gave lip service to running) a pro style offense and so does Barbay. That's the reference...

If you weren’t being so intellectually dishonest, you’d realize there are a variety of pro style offenses. In which all have different characteristics, terminology, and thought processes. But you aren’t being intellectually honest so that doesn’t matter.

[CoachT14]

Are we just gonna keep going in circles as you defend mediocrity?

The point of my position pertaining to a pro style offense is two-fold 1) one to point out the irony that the last time we ran one Croom was here and 2) to point out that pro style offense won't work here to the level of success that I'd like to see us strive for...

Also

You geniuses keep pointing out the issue with the AR like we've seen the AR in It's fullest form and that disingenuous at best. The AR needs to be able to spread the field horizontally with the short pass and stretch it vertically with a QB with adequate arm strength. We currently don't have that. It also looks like Leach was trying to incorporate more athleticism at the position judging by his recruiting... That's where we were trying to get to with our next QB.

The bottom line is we have different perspectives. Many of you don't believe we will ever be able to compete for an SEC championship and that mentality pushes you in a conservative direction where you want an offense that sees mediocrity as a ceiling.... I want an offense that sees mediocrity as a floor....

You guys got what you wanted...

What about any of Barbay’s offenses the last 2 years is mediocre?

Are you going to ignore the mediocre performances of our team 2 out of the last 3 years?

[662dawg]

What about any of Barbay’s offenses the last 2 years is mediocre?

Are you going to ignore the mediocre performances of our team 2 out of the last 3 years?

Yes. Yes he is. I'm not entertaining his posts any longer bc he cannot be as illiterate as his posts are suggesting. He has to be a troll & may even be KB too lol

[Really Clark?]

Are we just gonna keep going in circles as you defend mediocrity?

The point of my position pertaining to a pro style offense is two-fold 1) one to point out the irony that the last time we ran one Croom was here and 2) to point out that pro style offense won't work here to the level of success that I'd like to see us strive for...

Also

You geniuses keep pointing out the issue with the AR like we've seen the AR in It's fullest form and that disingenuous at best. The AR needs to be able to spread the field horizontally with the short pass and stretch it vertically with a QB with adequate arm strength. We currently don't have that. It also looks like Leach was trying to incorporate more athleticism at the position judging by his recruiting... That's where we were trying to get to with our next QB.

The bottom line is we have different perspectives. Many of you don't believe we will ever be able to compete for an SEC championship and that mentality pushes you in a conservative direction where you want an offense that sees mediocrity as a ceiling.... I want an offense that sees mediocrity as a floor....

You guys got what you wanted...

It's just you have a completely false narrative of why people disagree with you. I sure don't want average. But anyone who speaks in absolutes that Air Raid and throwing the ball 80% of the time is the ONLY way a team can score and be more than an average offense is talking from cult like mindset. It's just not true. He may fail or succeed and neither one of us knows that. Most are just objective about it. Has nothing to do with wanting to be average or worse. That's just moronic hyperbole you are spewing thinking is a point against anyone disagreeing with you. You and KB have determined we will fail if we don't run the offense you want. That's a narcissistic opinion. .

[mo7888]

If you weren’t being so intellectually dishonest, you’d realize there are a variety of pro style offenses. In which all have different characteristics, terminology, and thought processes. But you aren’t being intellectually honest so that doesn’t matter.

You don't really read what I write do you... I'm not saying you're intellectually dishonest...I just don't think you pay attention...

[mo7888]

What about any of Barbay?s offenses the last 2 years is mediocre?

Are you going to ignore the mediocre performances of our team 2 out of the last 3 years?

Going back to the 'you don't really read what I write' theme... just where did I say that Barbay or his offense was mediocre?

I'll save you the work...I didn't...I said that philosophy will only produce mediocre results here. For this philosophy to be successful in the SEC you need to be able to recruit on a higher level.

[mo7888]

It's just you have a completely false narrative of why people disagree with you. I sure don't want average. But anyone who speaks in absolutes that Air Raid and throwing the ball 80% of the time is the ONLY way a team can score and be more than an average offense is talking from cult like mindset. It's just not true. He may fail or succeed and neither one of us knows that. Most are just objective about it. Has nothing to do with wanting to be average or worse. That's just moronic hyperbole you are spewing thinking is a point against anyone disagreeing with you. You and KB have determined we will fail if we don't run the offense you want. That's a narcissistic opinion. .

Why would I care why or if people disagree with me? I mean, really Clark? I mean just look at your post for example...it's not logically coherent...and that's fine .. but it certainly isn't something that would cause any introspection on my part... and for the record, I don't care or need you to agree with me either... like I said...it's fine..

Re: mediocrity- its not simply that you crave mediocrity...you're just accustomed to it and accept it.... C34 articulated your position very well earlier in the thread...

I can't speak for KB but, for me, I've determined that this offense will fail in meeting the goals and hopes I had for this team.... you on the other hand will probably be happy with 6-6.... and exstatic if we can get 7.... in my eyes that would be a failure...

[Really Clark?]

Why would I care why or if people disagree with me? I mean, really Clark? I mean just look at your post for example...it's not logically coherent...and that's fine .. but it certainly isn't something that would cause any introspection on my part... and for the record, I don't care or need you to agree with me either... like I said...it's fine..

Re: mediocrity- its not simply that you crave mediocrity...you're just accustomed to it and accept it.... C34 articulated your position very well earlier in the thread...

I can't speak for KB but, for me, I've determined that this offense will fail in meeting the goals and hopes I had for this team.... you on the other hand will probably be happy with 6-6.... and exstatic if we can get 7.... in my eyes that would be a failure...

Your last paragraph illustrates my point. Your narrative of what I will settle for is absolutely false. 6-6 will not make me happy. You are assigning values and expectations on someone else without any facts to base it on. You have pre-determined this offense will fail and state it as an absolute fact. I've stated neither one of us knows what will happen this fall. Those are not objective statements you are making, it's a narcissistic type of an opinion.

[mo7888]

Your last paragraph illustrates my point. Your narrative of what I will settle for is absolutely false. 6-6 will not make me happy. You are assigning values and expectations on someone else without any facts to base it on. You have pre-determined this offense will fail and state it as an absolute fact. I've stated neither one of us knows what will happen this fall. Those are not objective statements you are making, it's a narcissistic type of an opinion.

I'm assigning it based on C34 embracing mediocrity for the guys on your side of the discussion. "We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football."-C34...

If that's not your mindset then you're going to be sorely disappointed because 6 or 7 wins is our ceiling now in my opinion... I understand your opinion is different so if they win 8....call me out... because I'd deserve it...

[Homedawg]

Going back to the 'you don't really read what I write' theme... just where did I say that Barbay or his offense was mediocre?

I'll save you the work...I didn't...I said that philosophy will only produce mediocre results here. For this philosophy to be successful in the SEC you need to be able to recruit on a higher level.
So I asked kb and he went crickets, so I'll ask you, what part of the air raid the last 3 years made you think we didn't need more talent to compete w THAT offense?? I'll hang up and listen

[Homedawg]

I'm assigning it based on C34 embracing mediocrity for the guys on your side of the discussion. "We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football."-C34...

If that's not your mindset then you're going to be sorely disappointed because 6 or 7 wins is our ceiling now in my opinion... I understand your opinion is different so if they win 8....call me out... because I'd deserve it...

6 or 7 is our ceiling? Damn dude.

[Coach34]

I'm assigning it based on C34 embracing mediocrity for the guys on your side of the discussion. "We arent ever going to be in the Top 5-10 or win anything in football."-C34...

If that's not your mindset then you're going to be sorely disappointed because 6 or 7 wins is our ceiling now in my opinion... I understand your opinion is different so if they win 8....call me out... because I'd deserve it...

We reached our ceiling in the AR this year- 8-4. We had the D to do better but the offense just couldnt get it done

[mo7888]

So I asked kb and he went crickets, so I'll ask you, what part of the air raid the last 3 years made you think we didn't need more talent to compete w THAT offense?? I'll hang up and listen

More talent that we currently have or talent on par with the top 5 or 6 teams in the SEC? Because we need more than we currently have in the skill positions but if we can get that we'll fare better against the top of the league than trying to go toe to toe with them in the run game.

[mo7888]

We reached our ceiling in the AR this year- 8-4. We had the D to do better but the offense just couldnt get it done

The D that let om drive 98 yards to have a shot at winning...yea right... but, 8-4 was the ceiling for the AR with a QB that isn't a vertical threat and can't move the ball with his feet for sure....

[Coach34]

More talent that we currently have or talent on par with the top 5 or 6 teams in the SEC? Because we need more than we currently have in the skill positions but if we can get that we'll fare better against the top of the league than trying to go toe to toe with them in the run game.

Here is what you guys dont seem to grasp:

We can recruit good OL guys that can block
We can recruit good RB's
We can recruit QB's that are athletic

We cant recruit top notch WR's or TE's like what Georgia has. We can recruit good players there but not elite ones
We cant recruit top notch QB's- we dont have that kind of money. We can recruit good ones but not elite ones

Be physical, have good RB's, have an athletic QB that can make throws. Thats how you win 8-9-10 games at Mississippi State. Mullen showed the way- he just didnt recruit well at WR. Recruit a little better at WR with the Mullen blueprint and we are the program we want to be

[Coach34]

The D that let om drive 98 yards to have a shot at winning...yea right... but, 8-4 was the ceiling for the AR with a QB that isn't a vertical threat and can't move the ball with his feet for sure....

We were 7th in the SEC in scoring D and 5th in Total D
We were 40th in the country in Scoring D and 35th in Total D

We were lower offensively

[mo7888]

Here is what you guys dont seem to grasp:

We can recruit good OL guys that can block
We can recruit good RB's
We can recruit QB's that are athletic

We cant recruit top notch WR's or TE's like what Georgia has. We can recruit good players there but not elite ones
We cant recruit top notch QB's- we dont have that kind of money. We can recruit good ones but not elite ones

Be physical, have good RB's, have an athletic QB that can make throws. Thats how you win 8-9-10 games at Mississippi State. Mullen showed the way- he just didnt recruit well at WR. Recruit a little better at WR with the Mullen blueprint and we are the program we want to be

That is such an antiquated way to look at things... it hasn't worked in the past, with only one or two exceptions, and it's not going to work in the future... and when I inevitably say, 'I told you so' in about 10 months you'll have some lame excuse as to why it didn't work and why it'll work better next time....

[Coach34]

That is such an antiquated way to look at things... it hasn't worked in the past, with only one or two exceptions, and it's not going to work in the future... and when I inevitably say, 'I told you so' in about 10 months you'll have some lame excuse as to why it didn't work and why it'll work better next time....

It's really not. It works very well. Just look at Mississippi.

2021- Coral ran 152/614 while throwing for 3350 yards. They won 10 games doing it. Something we have done twice in history.
2022- Dart ran for 128/614 while throwing for 3000 yards.

Mississippi has been above us scoring O the last 2 years. The shit works. They did the same shit under Freezus. They have 2 Sugar Bowls doing the shit. We dont. Why? They recruited better at WR. They didnt have their recruiting coach telling them they would have to learn to block before anything at State like we did with Hevesy

Facts are not on your side

[mo7888]

It's really not. It works very well. Just look at Mississippi.

2021- Coral ran 152/614 while throwing for 3350 yards. They won 10 games doing it. Something we have done twice in history.
2022- Dart ran for 128/614 while throwing for 3000 yards.

Mississippi has been above us scoring O the last 2 years. The shit works. They did the same shit under Freezus. They have 2 Sugar Bowls doing the shit. We dont. Why? They recruited better at WR. They didnt have their recruiting coach telling them they would have to learn to block before anything at State like we did with Hevesy

Facts are not on your side

History is on my side.....

Just don't bitch to much in 10 months when your little facade gets shattered.... and please call me out if I'm wrong because I'm gonna bring it up when I'm right....

[Todd4State]

So I asked kb and he went crickets, so I'll ask you, what part of the air raid the last 3 years made you think we didn't need more talent to compete w THAT offense?? I'll hang up and listen

I'll say this as I've said before. If we want to take the next step we have to recruit better. Scheme is secondary to the talent making it work. That goes for Leach and Mullen.

MSU needs to focus a lot more on building up our recruiting and focus less on getting some football genius to outscheme Alabama.

[Todd4State]

Here is what you guys dont seem to grasp:

We can recruit good OL guys that can block
We can recruit good RB's
We can recruit QB's that are athletic

We cant recruit top notch WR's or TE's like what Georgia has. We can recruit good players there but not elite ones
We cant recruit top notch QB's- we dont have that kind of money. We can recruit good ones but not elite ones

Be physical, have good RB's, have an athletic QB that can make throws. Thats how you win 8-9-10 games at Mississippi State. Mullen showed the way- he just didnt recruit well at WR. Recruit a little better at WR with the Mullen blueprint and we are the program we want to be

Leach had two four star QB's on our roster and a third four star QB committed and this year we likely will start three four star receivers- Tulu, Zavion, and Robinson. That doesn't include Dortch or Whittmore who are also four star receivers.

There is nothing to stop us from recruiting four star players at any position except MSU not putting enough into it as a program. Which has been the actual problem all along. You can not tell me that Ole Miss and USM can find receivers but we can't.

Fewer excuses now with the NCAA as toothless as ever and NIL in play. Which was not the case in the past. At least because we would penalize ourselves.

[Coach34]

History is on my side.....

How did we do in 1979 with Dave Marler at QB when we threw it alot? 3-8
How did we do in 1988 with Tony Shell slinging it? 1-10
How did we do with Derrick Taite slinging it in 1995? 3-8
How about Kevin Fant 2002? 3-9
How about Kevin Fant 2003? 2-10

History is nowhere near close to your side

[Todd4State]

How did we do in 1979 with Dave Marler at QB when we threw it alot? 3-8
How did we do in 1988 with Tony Shell slinging it? 1-10
How did we do with Derrick Taite slinging it in 1995? 3-8
How about Kevin Fant 2002? 3-9
How about Kevin Fant 2003? 2-10

History is nowhere near close to your side

1979? LOL.

Derrick Taite won 8 in 1994 and upset Bama in 1996.

Dan's best offense was with Dak when we actually had a deep passing game. Which coincidentally was when Dan won 10 and then 9 the next year. Heck- we won 9 games this year and our offense wasn't even fully at its peak. Not to mention two of the schools biggest comebacks and one of the more memorable wins in MSU history against LSU.

We didn't lose those years because we were passing. Our defense was atrocious most of those years.

[Coach34]

1979? LOL.

Derrick Taite won 8 in 1994 and upset Bama in 1996.

Dan's best offense was with Dak when we actually had a deep passing game. Which coincidentally was when Dan won 10 and then 9 the next year. Heck- we won 9 games this year and our offense wasn't even fully at its peak. Not to mention two of the schools biggest comebacks and one of the more memorable wins in MSU history against LSU.

We didn't lose those years because we were passing. Our defense was atrocious most of those years.

We ran the ball 495 times in 1994- threw it 237...so you lose

2014?

We ran it 578 for 3030 and threw it 423 for 3649...got to run

Whats hilarious is the people spouting "Holloway up the middle" dont realize that we passed more that season than ran in 2015. 500 passes to 427 runs.

[Coach34]

We didn't lose those years because we were passing. Our defense was atrocious most of those years.

Oh wow- so you admit the offense and its philosophy isnt the only thing that affects wins and losses?

[Homedawg]

More talent that we currently have or talent on par with the top 5 or 6 teams in the SEC? Because we need more than we currently have in the skill positions but if we can get that we'll fare better against the top of the league than trying to go toe to toe with them in the run game.

Wow more talent. That's a Novel concept. Why didn't we have that?

[Todd4State]

We ran the ball 495 times in 1994- threw it 237...so you lose

2014?

We ran it 578 for 3030 and threw it 423 for 3649...got to run

Whats hilarious is the people spouting "Holloway up the middle" dont realize that we passed more that season than ran in 2015. 500 passes to 427 runs.

Yeah. So we were still run heavy at that time.

I mean we won 9 games in 2015 even if we weren't maximizing our personnel which kind of proves my point.

[Cooterpoot]

We don't have a single improvement lined up at QB in the portal. Preferred walk-on isn't good. Wright isn't great and he's not coming. You can pretty much forget a quality portal QB until next year and got to hope for depth after spring.

[Todd4State]

Oh wow- so you admit the offense and its philosophy isnt the only thing that affects wins and losses?

Did I ever say that?

I've long been a supporter of getting better players in and upping our recruiting resources. You can't say that we can't win throwing the ball around anymore. Because we have. Just like we've won running the ball. And won with balance. Even Arnett appears to be going to at worst close to 50/50.

In addition to that I've also believed that we need to be strong on offense, defense, and special teams. I've never really been someone who has been hyperfocused on offense. Because it is going to take a well rounded team to reach our ceiling. 2021 is a great example because we were awful on special teams and it cost us 2-3 wins because we couldn't kick a field goal. Otherwise Leach would have and probably should have had two 9 win seasons back to back. It is what it is because it takes all three phases- especially for MSU.

The biggest thing I disagree with you on is the poor ol state mentality that we "can't" recruit certain position groups well. That has been proven false.

[Todd4State]

We don't have a single improvement lined up at QB in the portal. Preferred walk-on isn't good. Wright isn't great and he's not coming. You can pretty much forget a quality portal QB until next year and got to hope for depth after spring.

IF Will leaves after 2023 I would imagine we could find someone in the portal. The reality is most QB's in the portal are in there because they want to play. They're typically not going to go somewhere that they have to compete. And they're certainly not going to go somewhere to wait around for their turn.

Honestly we're probably going to either end up with no one or someone like Luke Altmeyer or a JUCO that is a big MSU fan like a Lovertich or Tyson Lee realistically.

I fully expect Parson to be the back up next year at this point.

[PikeDawg15]

At the end of the day it doesn?t matter what scheme you run

Like Kirby smart says , it?s not about the x?s and the O?s it?s about the jimmy and the joes.

I?ve heard Zach Arnette say this multiple times at press conferences before so our own coach understands it.

Arnette recruits very well on his side of the ball, we have some really good talent on the defensive side that we bring in every single year but we can never manage to do that with the offense

If we want to consistently compete most years in the SEC we are going to have to get our money up well above what it is.

Our NIL will have to be multiplied by 4 or 5x what it is currently

An elite Quarterback can take 6-6 team and take them to a NY6 bowl

It happens all the time.

The most exciting thing about Arnette is I fully believe that as long as he is here, the defense will always be a top 5 or right near top 5 sec defense year in and year out.

if we could get a good offense to go along with an Arnette defense, we would make noise around the country.

If a Dak Prescott state team had an Arnette defense they would have won the SEC

I hate that I bash on the guy so much but until I am proven otherwise, Will Rogers limits this team.

I remember the stupid arguments people made in 2021 that will rogers was better than Matt corral.

No way in hell.

Matt corral made a 7-5 team go 10-2

Without him, they lose to Tennessee, LSU, State, Arkansas, hell maybe even vandy.

Lane kiffin knows that jaxson dart is not elite, he is solid but he is not elite so that is why you see them targeting big time transfer qb?s to start over him because that is what every offense requires.

Yes, the air raid would have been much better with a better qb

Gardner minshew on 2021 and 2022 State instead of Will Rogers would have led to back to back 10+ win seasons

Im ok with leaving the air raid and going to a barbay style because I trust coach Arnette and since he is a defensive guy he knows what is toughest to defend.

[PikeDawg15]

And to add to the point about recruiting better at Wide Receiver, I think that is why Arnette brought home Chad Bumphis.

[mo7888]

How did we do in 1979 with Dave Marler at QB when we threw it alot? 3-8
How did we do in 1988 with Tony Shell slinging it? 1-10
How did we do with Derrick Taite slinging it in 1995? 3-8
How about Kevin Fant 2002? 3-9
How about Kevin Fant 2003? 2-10

History is nowhere near close to your side

That's like comparing Bill Russell's era to Shaq's..players were different...schemes were different...it can't be done reasonably..youre grasping at straws now....and history is definitely on my side and it's irrelevant that you don't want to see it...

[mo7888]

Wow more talent. That's a Novel concept. Why didn't we have that?

You're changing course there... we will always need more talent but we were a QB and a WR away from being competitive for the West...much easier to get than the wholesale talent gap we'd need to bridge to compete at the level I'd like to see us competing at...

[Desoto1967]

Watching Whittmore on Youtube makes me think he could be great in the wildcat

[Really Clark?]

That's like comparing Bill Russell's era to Shaq's..players were different...schemes were different...it can't be done reasonably..youre grasping at straws now....and history is definitely on my side and it's irrelevant that you don't want to see it...

History is on the side of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tenn and Florida. Nobody outside of that group nobody has won the SEC outright since 1963. Kentucky tied with Georgia in 1976. That's the history. We want to get and stay in the second tier for a significant period of time. Everyone wants that. The only team recently to come close was So Car under Spurrier for 4 years. And he changed to accomplish that with the talent he was getting, different than how he did it at Florida. He was running it nearly 60% of the time and would try to hit some big plays. Not saying that we or anyone else from the lower tier has to do it ONLY that way but conversely you can't say it can only be done your way either.

[Todd4State]

History is on the side of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tenn and Florida. Nobody outside of that group nobody has won the SEC outright since 1963. Kentucky tied with Georgia in 1976. That's the history. We want to get and stay in the second tier for a significant period of time. Everyone wants that. The only team recently to come close was So Car under Spurrier for 4 years. And he changed to accomplish that with the talent he was getting, different than how he did it at Florida. He was running it nearly 60% of the time and would try to hit some big plays. Not saying that we or anyone else from the lower tier has to do it ONLY that way but conversely you can't say it can only be done your way either.

That's kind of crazy that only those six have won the SEC since 1963. A little surprised that Ole Miss didn't win it once in that span in the 1960's. I'm sure they probably claim a title that they tied but didn't really win the tiebreaker knowing them.

[BrunswickDawg]

History is on the side of Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, Tenn and Florida. Nobody outside of that group nobody has won the SEC outright since 1963. Kentucky tied with Georgia in 1976. That's the history. We want to get and stay in the second tier for a significant period of time. Everyone wants that. The only team recently to come close was So Car under Spurrier for 4 years. And he changed to accomplish that with the talent he was getting, different than how he did it at Florida. He was running it nearly 60% of the time and would try to hit some big plays. Not saying that we or anyone else from the lower tier has to do it ONLY that way but conversely you can't say it can only be done your way either.

And UT hasn't won this century.

[Cooterpoot]

That's like comparing Bill Russell's era to Shaq's..players were different...schemes were different...it can't be done reasonably..youre grasping at straws now....and history is definitely on my side and it's irrelevant that you don't want to see it...

None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

[Really Clark?]

That's kind of crazy that only those six have won the SEC since 1963. A little surprised that Ole Miss didn't win it once in that span in the 1960's. I'm sure they probably claim a title that they tied but didn't really win the tiebreaker knowing them.

They were the last one outright in 1963. Just didn't want to type their stupid name in that post. Lol

[Really Clark?]

And UT hasn't won this century.

That's very true

[TrapGame]

None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

I love Leach, but there's a reason his Texas Tech teams never played for a Natty. You've got to be able to pound the rock.

[mo7888]

None of the teams winning the Natty throw it around. Did you see what UGA did to the TCU modified Air Raid? When you get over 35 passes in a game, you decrease your chance at winning. Especially against better teams.

Absolutely correct...when you have the talent advantages that they have you can play that way... we don't and won't in the foreseeable future so we have to be different ... We can play like them and have a mediocre ceiling, which is what most here want...or we can do it differently and have a mediocre floor.... which is what I want....to each his own...

[mo7888]

I love Leach, but there's a reason his Texas Tech teams never played for a Natty. You've got to be able to pound the rock.

This mentality is simply a recipe for mediocrity here... it's fine for Bama, Georgia, LSU, but it'll just keep us as a middling team that'll beat om half the time.... I just want better than that...

[BankerDog]

Shucks, we are excited about a PWO and a back up. Meanwhile, our in state rival just pulled a State family kid (family has a box at DWS) to come compete with their sophomore starting QB and we are excited about a PWO.

It doesn?t matter what offense we run, we need to upgrade the talent. I hate giving those guys credit but they figure out what ways to replace WRs and upgrade the skill positions unlike we do.

[DEDawg]

Shucks, we are excited about a PWO and a back up. Meanwhile, our in state rival just pulled a State family kid (family has a box at DWS) to come compete with their sophomore starting QB and we are excited about a PWO.

It doesn?t matter what offense we run, we need to upgrade the talent. I hate giving those guys credit but they figure out what ways to replace WRs and upgrade the skill positions unlike we do.

Dont say stuff like this, the gatekeepers will call you a troll and closet reb

[TrapGame]

This mentality is simply a recipe for mediocrity here... it's fine for Bama, Georgia, LSU, but it'll just keep us as a middling team that'll beat om half the time.... I just want better than that...

Bro, you want a fantasy.

Saban pushed our shit in for 3 years. The AR didn't make a damn bit of difference. And yes, you do have to be able to pound the rock. That is football 101. If Leach had adapted his scheme to employ ground support for his air raid we would have been talking very differently about the three years under Leach because we would have been able to run the ball opening up opportunities for passes downfield for the air raid concepts.