View Full Version : Braves
dawgs
07-29-2015, 02:00 AM
I didn't like it either. Are you guys standing pat now?
Maybe a middle reliever. And even though Zimmerman just came back, if they aren't sold on him being close to 100% or concerned about re-injury, wouldn't be surprised to see them make a play for Adam Lind.
War Machine Dawg
07-29-2015, 09:32 PM
Braves involved in a 3-way deal with the Dodgers and Marlins. Latos, Morse, Wood, Jim Johnson, and Peraza all to LA. Braves get Olivera, Zach Bird, and a draft pick. Olivera is a 30 year old defector. We got totally ****ed if this is indeed the deal. We should have gotten Puig or Seagar for what we're giving up. Instead, we're getting the short end.
dawgs
07-29-2015, 09:47 PM
Lulz, nice trade bravos
msstate7
07-29-2015, 10:00 PM
We could've just signed Olivera a few months back. Now we give up our current top rated prospect and a very good, young lhp for Olivera
BoomBoom
07-29-2015, 10:14 PM
Braves involved in a 3-way deal with the Dodgers and Marlins. Latos, Morse, Wood, Jim Johnson, and Peraza all to LA. Braves get Olivera, Zach Bird, and a draft pick. Olivera is a 30 year old defector. We got totally ****ed if this is indeed the deal. We should have gotten Puig or Seagar for what we're giving up. Instead, we're getting the short end.
i would bet Chris Johnson is offloaded onto either the Dodgers or the Marlins for that to be the deal.
Really Clark?
07-29-2015, 10:30 PM
We could've just signed Olivera a few months back. Now we give up our current top rated prospect and a very good, young lhp for Olivera
We couldn't get close to signing Olivera at the time. He has already received a $28 mil bonus and we couldn't touch that. So we get him for $32 mil over 5 years. That is a very friendly contract but the big if is, does he hit like we hope. Would like to see what all we end up getting but I do hate to lose Wood. However, to get a big bat you have to give up more than prospects. And I don't think we could have pulled Seagar or Puig without offering even more. Seagar may be the premiere offensive SS/3rd base prospect in all of baseball. You are not pulling him for a mid or at best #2 starter.
msstate7
07-29-2015, 10:36 PM
We couldn't get close to signing Olivera at the time. He has already received a $28 mil bonus and we couldn't touch that. So we get him for $32 mil over 5 years. That is a very friendly contract but the big if is, does he hit like we hope. Would like to see what all we end up getting but I do hate to lose Wood. However, to get a big bat you have to give up more than prospects. And I don't think we could have pulled Seagar or Puig without offering even more. Seagar may be the premiere offensive SS/3rd base prospect in all of baseball. You are not pulling him for a mid or at best #2 starter.
Wood should get Olivera by himself.
Really Clark?
07-29-2015, 10:51 PM
Wood should get Olivera by himself.
I would tend to agree but let's see what the final return is. But your original point that we could have got him during the off season and the cost for out of the Braves price range by a good bit.
msstate7
07-29-2015, 10:56 PM
I would tend to agree but let's see what the final return is. But your original point that we could have got him during the off season and the cost for out of the Braves price range by a good bit.
So we end up getting him for half the money plus wood and peraza. If this is the deal, I've lost all faith in hart. After re-signing fredi, giving away uribe and Kelly for essentially nothing, and now this... I'm gonna be sick
War Machine Dawg
07-30-2015, 12:18 AM
So we end up getting him for half the money plus wood and peraza. If this is the deal, I've lost all faith in hart. After re-signing fredi, giving away uribe and Kelly for essentially nothing, and now this... I'm gonna be sick
Waiting on Shoeless to join the discussion and tell us why Hart over Coppy was a good idea. Like I said, for what we appear to be giving up, we should have landed either Puig or Seagar. Anything else is us getting completely screwed.
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 01:02 AM
Don't know if I like the trade yet either but there is no way we get Seagar or Puig for what we gave up. You would have to throw in Simmons or Miller instead of Wood might have been enough. But you are over valuing our guys. As much as I like Woods and Pereza they are not equal to Seagar or Puig. Again not that this will be a good trade necessarily but those guys would have required much more to get.
dawgs
07-30-2015, 02:26 AM
I think it's always a great idea to trade a top prospect and a solid SP with multiple years of team control for a 30 year old that's never played in the bigs and a marginal pitching prospect.
shoeless joe
07-30-2015, 09:18 AM
Waiting on Shoeless to join the discussion and tell us why Hart over Coppy was a good idea. Like I said, for what we appear to be giving up, we should have landed either Puig or Seagar. Anything else is us getting completely screwed.
Ha...
I personally hate this deal. Based solely on wood. During the off/early season it appeared clear and obvious what the braves were trying to do with the roster...now I don't have a clue. Somebody must think his mechanics won't hold up long term but I just don't get it.
msstate7
07-30-2015, 09:41 AM
Ha...
I personally hate this deal. Based solely on wood. During the off/early season it appeared clear and obvious what the braves were trying to do with the roster...now I don't have a clue. Somebody must think his mechanics won't hold up long term but I just don't get it.
If we're dead set on moving wood, we should've waited till the offseason. Definitely think we can do better dealing wood.
Please Lord don't let peraza be part of this deal too
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 09:53 AM
To me the only thing that would have made some sense is if the Dodgers or Marlins take Chris Johnson as well. Not sure I like it but at least then I could see it. I know a lot of scouts really liked Olivera and obviously our front office has been hot to get him.
MS_half-step
07-30-2015, 10:33 AM
I'm actually ok with this deal. Peraza is a little overhyped and has no position to play for this team. FO clearly views Ozzie Albies as better, which I can't disagree. With all the pitching acquired Wood is probably not in the rotation after next year anyway, plus injury concerns, velocity down, etc. This team needs a bat in the worst way, just hope we've done our homework on Olivera and the red flags aren't a long term issue. Since we were after him so hard in the winter got to think we've got a good idea of what he is and what we're getting.
War Machine Dawg
07-30-2015, 10:37 AM
Don't know if I like the trade yet either but there is no way we get Seagar or Puig for what we gave up. You would have to throw in Simmons or Miller instead of Wood might have been enough. But you are over valuing our guys. As much as I like Woods and Pereza they are not equal to Seagar or Puig. Again not that this will be a good trade necessarily but those guys would have required much more to get.
We're talking about a long term #2 or #3 starter under team control for approximately 5 years, our closer, and our top position prospect. Hell yes that group is worth Puig. Anything less is getting the shaft.
War Machine Dawg
07-30-2015, 10:39 AM
Ha...
I personally hate this deal. Based solely on wood. During the off/early season it appeared clear and obvious what the braves were trying to do with the roster...now I don't have a clue. Somebody must think his mechanics won't hold up long term but I just don't get it.
I'm with you. This deal makes no sense, especially for what we're (not) getting in return. And we aren't even getting a salary dump with CJ, it appears. The only real "prospect" in the deal is nearly 30 and never played a single day in MLB. Unless Olivera comes in, jumps immediately to the big club, and hits 15 HRs by the end of the year and 30+ next year, we got screwed.
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 10:54 AM
We're talking about a long term #2 or #3 starter under team control for approximately 5 years, our closer, and our top position prospect. Hell yes that group is worth Puig. Anything less is getting the shaft.
The closer is a rental and is an irrelevant part of getting a top bat in this trade. It's about Wood and Peraza. Personally I don't care for Puig because of character but there is no denying he has .290 30 hr potential. The value does not add up especially considering the Dodgers probably see him that way even with his less production this year. He is what a 5 WAR guy normally by himself. At best Wood and Peraza gets you to 3.5 maybe 4. If they didn't think he would live up to that potential then we might could have got him. The value numbers just doesn't add up between those players.
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 11:04 AM
I'm with you. This deal makes no clue, especially for what we're (not) getting in return. And we aren't even getting a salary dump with CJ, it appears. The only real "prospect" in the deal is nearly 30 and never played a single day in MLB. Unless Olivera comes in, jumps immediately to the big club, and hits 15 HRs by the end of the year and 30+ next year, we got screwed.
That's the part I'm not sure on unless there is something else coming. I don't do the deal probably either unless CJ is dumped on someone. And I think we can forget Oliver hitting 30 hr in a season. I think he will hit around .300 and maybe 15-20 hr but we will see. The 30 year old thing with him is a question mark but he doesn't have the normal wear as he would if he had played here for his entire life. But he already had some red flags so I hope honestly the medical come back sterling or else back out. And also where are we playing him? 2nd or 3rd. That also makes a difference on if we are getting good value for him. And if he lives up to the potential then his value is also very good and controllable for 5 years it's just he will be 35 at the end.
War Machine Dawg
07-30-2015, 01:43 PM
Looks like the deal is finalized.
Dodgers get: Latos, Morse, Wood, Johnson, Peraza, Avilan, Arroyo
Marlins get: Kevin Guzman, Jeff Brigham, Victor Araujo
Braves get: Olivera (injured, hamsting. Old), Paco Rodriguez (injured), Zach Bird (sucks), Draft Pick
Bottom line, we got hosed.
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 02:15 PM
Looks like the deal is finalized.
Dodgers get: Latos, Morse, Wood, Johnson, Peraza, Avilan, Arroyo
Marlins get: Kevin Guzman, Jeff Brigham, Victor Araujo
Braves get: Olivera (injured, hamsting. Old), Paco Rodriguez (injured), Zach Bird (sucks), Draft Pick
Bottom line, we got hosed.
30 is not old. He may not be in his prime or could be about at the end of prime. And position is something we have to consider. If he plays 2nd and produces like 33 year old Ian Kinsler or Pedroia at 31 then he is great value. At 3rd then he doesn't have the pop I believe but at the price still maybe a good player. Everybody believes he will hit for good avg at the MLB level but it is definitely a risk. Paco has been a good reliever and is young. His injury is lower shoulder issue and Bird doesn't suck just has to hit his potential. Which is a middle to back end starter in the MLB. All that being said I agree I don't do the trade without CJ being taken off our hands or don't give up as much. I wonder how much the office feels that Ailbes (sp?) is going to come on sooner that thought. And I really liked Wood. Questions about his delivery not withstanding I really like him. Does seem like the office likes Olivera too much and too many variables for my liking as well.
dawgs
07-30-2015, 03:23 PM
30 is not old. He may not be in his prime or could be about at the end of prime. And position is something we have to consider. If he plays 2nd and produces like 33 year old Ian Kinsler or Pedroia at 31 then he is great value. At 3rd then he doesn't have the pop I believe but at the price still maybe a good player. Everybody believes he will hit for good avg at the MLB level but it is definitely a risk. Paco has been a good reliever and is young. His injury is lower shoulder issue and Bird doesn't suck just has to hit his potential. Which is a middle to back end starter in the MLB. All that being said I agree I don't do the trade without CJ being taken off our hands or don't give up as much. I wonder how much the office feels that Ailbes (sp?) is going to come on sooner that thought. And I really liked Wood. Questions about his delivery not withstanding I really like him. Does seem like the office likes Olivera too much and too many variables for my liking as well.
Even if Olivera plays like a 30something pedroia or kinsler, that's not worth giving up a solid SP with years of team control and your best position prospect and top 50 overall prospect in baseball for. Not when he hasn't faced MLB pitching in a regular season game. Seemed like the Braves were building towards the new stadium and hoping to make some noise in 2017-2018, so why trade 2 young pieces for a 30 year old?
War Machine Dawg
07-30-2015, 03:28 PM
Even if Olivera plays like a 30something pedroia or kinsler, that's not worth giving up a solid SP with years of team control and your best position prospect and top 50 overall prospect in baseball for. Not when he hasn't faced MLB pitching in a regular season game. Seemed like the Braves were building towards the new stadium and hoping to make some noise in 2017-2018, so why trade 2 young pieces for a 30 year old?
Shhh.....that requires common sense to figure out. 30 year old defector (or hell, maybe 35 considering he was born in Cuba and has no birth certificate) who's never played a single MLB game gonna be our savior.******
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 04:20 PM
Shhh.....that requires common sense to figure out. 30 year old defector (or hell, maybe 35 considering he was born in Cuba and has no birth certificate) who's never played a single MLB game gonna be our savior.******
I never said that. At all. Don't be obtuse. But don't act like you know he won't hit and hit very well in the league. We don't know but every indication is he will. I wouldn't have done the trade and don't think it fits by given up Woods. But he is also controllable and depending on his spot could be a very good bat. It is a change from what we have been doing all year and that makes me wonder if they don't see a bigger upside with him or what exactly the moves are and why this trade. The flip side is if he hits like a lot of the Cubans at around his numbers for the next 3 years then it's a good deal, if Woods doesn't develop into a #1 type pitcher. I would had rather kept a younger Woods because I like pitching and like him but they are both controllable. And if he does hit then he could be a very good trade piece in a year or two. That brings back something more than what we had. It's a risk I wouldn't take for various reasons and like you think we could have done better than this. But part of that is because we really like Woods.
dawgs
07-30-2015, 04:34 PM
But y'all also gave up pereza, a top 50 prospect. And earlier I think you said there wasn't a spot for him to play on the current team, but jace Peterson is more of a career util guy than an everyday player.
Really Clark?
07-30-2015, 04:38 PM
But y'all also gave up pereza, a top 50 prospect. And earlier I think you said there wasn't a spot for him to play on the current team, but jace Peterson is more of a career util guy than an everyday player.
I don't think I said anything about Peraza not having a spot said the office may see Ailbes (who is rated about the same as Peraza right now) coming up much quicker than thought but I'm not sure where they are going to play Olivera. If it is at second and he hits like projected then it's a very good deal as for as per yearly salary. Kinsler is making $15 mil a year. If he plays that well and we get him for $9 mil less. Also we dumped what? $10 mil or so from Arroyo's salary obligations. That may be why the extra prospect had to be dealt. Wish it had been CJ instead but that does help. Maybe they are also freeing up money to help make a run at players this offseason.
msstate7
07-30-2015, 04:40 PM
But y'all also gave up pereza, a top 50 prospect. And earlier I think you said there wasn't a spot for him to play on the current team, but jace Peterson is more of a career util guy than an everyday player.
Peterson just keeping 2b warm for albies.
I hate the trade, but peraza isn't a lock at the mlb level IMO. He doesn't walk... Like ever! He has defensive question marks too. Sorta like a fast Chris Johnson... Ok, not that bad.
BoomBoom
07-30-2015, 05:28 PM
Peterson just keeping 2b warm for albies.
I hate the trade, but peraza isn't a lock at the mlb level IMO. He doesn't walk... Like ever! He has defensive question marks too. Sorta like a fast Chris Johnson... Ok, not that bad.
peraza doesn't walk either. he is a good bit overhyped IMO. aloe vera or whoever the hell we just got has had a much better OPS in his minor league stints this year (though SSS).
we overpaid, clearly, but the FO must be looking at 2017 knowing they need a 3B, and all they have is a utility guy and 2 2B prospects, and a 3B prospect (Ruiz) that has been dogshite in AA this year. that dump off of Kyle Kubitza looks HORRIBLE right now. they know they will end up having to overpay for a 3B. and they love Olivera, so they'd rather overpay for him than some average veteran. Wood will probably be a Super Two this offseason, which puts him in Mike Minor territory of possibly not being worth a damn thing if he has a down year next year or gets hurt, and his peripherals have not been as good as his results.
Wood probably has $15M in value after his salary. They project Olivera to have about the same over and above his salary. Then they dump $8M in Arroyo and pick up a draft pick worth about another $10M, for JJohnson and Avilan, who have no 2017 value to the Braves, and Peraza, who has (wild ass guess) maybe $20M-$30M in value.
so really it is a slight overpay for a guy they love at a position of need with scarce options, that they paid for out of positions of plenty. it makes some sense, but damn it's ballsy.
msstate7
07-31-2015, 09:15 AM
Ok, I'm losing faith big time in hart...
?@BNightengale
A.J. Pierznyski staying put in Atlanta unless #Braves blown away by offer, citing his value on and off field to organization.
...
What sense does it make to keep AJ and play him every day? None...
Really Clark?
07-31-2015, 09:29 AM
Ok, I'm losing faith big time in hart...
?@BNightengale
A.J. Pierznyski staying put in Atlanta unless #Braves blown away by offer, citing his value on and off field to organization.
...
What sense does it make to keep AJ and play him every day? None...
I think it says a whole lot about Bethancourt and how they had rather deal him off of his AAA numbers than bring him back up and refresh teams memories of what he looked like in the bigs. And there has been a lot of talk the Braves wanted to try and resign AJ even if we trade him. But the day is not over yet.
War Machine Dawg
07-31-2015, 03:40 PM
I think it says a whole lot about Bethancourt and how they had rather deal him off of his AAA numbers than bring him back up and refresh teams memories of what he looked like in the bigs. And there has been a lot of talk the Braves wanted to try and resign AJ even if we trade him. But the day is not over yet.
This. It has way more to do with us losing all faith in Bethancourt than in the value of AJ. It really sucks that O'Dowd got popped for PEDs. He'd probably be getting a chance soon, assuming he continued the tear he was on at Pearl.
In the good news department, it looks like we're trying to move Gomes. He won't bring much, but I'd rather get a little than nothing. Hopefully we can move CJ, but we won't get anything for him.
Really Clark?
07-31-2015, 04:16 PM
This. It has way more to do with us losing all faith in Bethancourt than in the value of AJ. It really sucks that O'Dowd got popped for PEDs. He'd probably be getting a chance soon, assuming he continued the tear he was on at Pearl.
In the good news department, it looks like we're trying to move Gomes. He won't bring much, but I'd rather get a little than nothing. Hopefully we can move CJ, but we won't get anything for him.
Wish we could unload CJ but I don't think we can unless it's a bad contract for bad contract swap. I would give him and pay half the salary for a box of cracker jacks. Prime example of why Wryn is gone.
msstate7
07-31-2015, 04:48 PM
In case anyone is keeping score, our record is better than only 6 teams in mlb. We're having another patented fredi collapse. Since the extension to fredi, hart seems to be completely lost IMO. I hate every move we made since that extension.
shoeless joe
08-01-2015, 12:09 PM
In case anyone is keeping score, our record is better than only 6 teams in mlb. We're having another patented fredi collapse. Since the extension to fredi, hart seems to be completely lost IMO. I hate every move we made since that extension.
Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.
But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 12:20 PM
Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.
But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.
What was the excuse for every year fredi has coached here save 1 for the 2nd half collapses?
BoomBoom
08-01-2015, 01:05 PM
Good grief man...your fredi bias has sunk as low as possible if you believe what you just said, regarding fredi. I somewhat agree on hart but I'm gonna have a wait and see approach there until next season to see if some things he's doin are coming together...rite now I'm confused as to what direction he's going.
But back to fredi...he takes a team picked to lose 90-100 games preseason and has them around .500 at the halfway point and beyond. Then these things occur: lose all star 1B; lose reliable closer; trade away team leaders and offensive threats (uribe, KJ); young "studd" catcher sucks; trade away new closer; trade young mid rotation arm; this is not to mention losing the best reliever in the game the day before the season starts. Fredi has his flaws, as you like to point out, but what is about to take place these last 2 months are t going to be on him. I think hart knew this was coming and that's why he went ahead and extended him. That way there'll be no doubt or rumors to cause issues in the club house.
geez, this again. again, there's two "skills" a manager has: getting the most out of a player (over the season), and getting the most out of a situation (in-game). Fredi (and Bobby), excel at the former, but suck at the latter. the former will most help a mediocre team be average, the latter will win championships.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 01:19 PM
markasaxon
Source: #Dodgers only picking up $500k of Bronson Arroyo's contract, including buyout. Media has exaggerated some of their financial outlay
@David11Lee
That's not very much of Arroyo's deal getting eaten. Allow me to pull back a little on the "softens the blow" thing.
...
Olivera better be outstanding and stay healthy. I really have no doubts he'll hit. I have extreme doubts he'll stay healthy though
shoeless joe
08-01-2015, 02:22 PM
What was the excuse for every year fredi has coached here save 1 for the 2nd half collapses?
I agree.
Fredi has a lot of faults as braves manager...how this season plays out isn't on him. Your blind hate takes away from your legitimate points.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 02:55 PM
I agree.
Fredi has a lot of faults as braves manager...how this season plays out isn't on him. Your blind hate takes away from your legitimate points.
The Phillies were predicted much worse than the Braves. Since sandberg left, the Phillies are playing really well. I just really thought hart jumped the gun extended fredi. NO ONE was coming after fredi. We should've waited till the season played out.
I thought hart jumped the gun on trading uribe and Kelly. I think both should've been traded, but a week before the deadline for 2 guys that most likely never make the big team? We let it be known that we'd have to blown away to move AJ, but jump on the first offer for 2 guys having nice years.
At the deadline trading with a contender, we look like the desperate team trading wood. Unless the Dodgers blew us away for wood, why make that move? Hold wood till the offseason and get more than contenders involved.
Just really disappointed in the last month from hart to the least of the Braves...
BoomBoom
08-01-2015, 03:00 PM
markasaxon
Source: #Dodgers only picking up $500k of Bronson Arroyo's contract, including buyout. Media has exaggerated some of their financial outlay
@David11Lee
That's not very much of Arroyo's deal getting eaten. Allow me to pull back a little on the "softens the blow" thing.
...
Olivera better be outstanding and stay healthy. I really have no doubts he'll hit. I have extreme doubts he'll stay healthy though
i'd doubt that. makes too little sense.
shoeless joe
08-01-2015, 03:24 PM
The Phillies were predicted much worse than the Braves. Since sandberg left, the Phillies are playing really well. I just really thought hart jumped the gun extended fredi. NO ONE was coming after fredi. We should've waited till the season played out.
I thought hart jumped the gun on trading uribe and Kelly. I think both should've been traded, but a week before the deadline for 2 guys that most likely never make the big team? We let it be known that we'd have to blown away to move AJ, but jump on the first offer for 2 guys having nice years.
At the deadline trading with a contender, we look like the desperate team trading wood. Unless the Dodgers blew us away for wood, why make that move? Hold wood till the offseason and get more than contenders involved.
Just really disappointed in the last month from hart to the least of the Braves...
Agree with everything.
I really believe hart went ahead and extended fredi because he knew what he was about to do.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 07:49 PM
Good thing we traded wood. Right now I'm only confident in miller headed into next season
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 08:24 PM
Good thing we traded wood. Right now I'm only confident in miller headed into next season
You have to quit micro analyzing these small samples, especially with these young guys. One game does not determine how good Wisler will be or how good or bad our staff will be next year. At the beginning of the year Teheran was probably nearly an Ace in your mind based off of last year. And now you have been wanting to trade him. These up and down knee jerk swings you have with guys is kind of out there. Most of the time they are not as good or bad as you think. Be patient with these young guys.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 08:30 PM
You have to quit micro analyzing these small samples, especially with these young guys. One game does not determine how good Wisler will be or how good or bad our staff will be next year. At the beginning of the year Teheran was probably nearly an Ace in your mind based off of last year. And now you have been wanting to trade him. These up and down knee jerk swings you have with guys is kind of out there. Most of the time they are not as good or bad as you think. Be patient with these young guys.
Maybe so. Where do you think our staff rates in the east headed into next season?
We have money to sign a TOR guy this offseason. After we finish this train wreck of a season though, do you think one will sign here? I have my doubts.
I just really think trading wood is gonna bite us big time esp considering we got a 30-year old injury prone guy and gave up one of our better prospects with a hole at 2b
Peterson last 7...
.125/.222/.125
Yeah, that's too micro
Last 15...
.176/.263/.235
Probably still too small, right?
Last 30...
.180/.254/.252
Really glad we didn't give peraza a shot there and we gave up our 2nd best starter for a guy with 0 mlb ab's
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 08:49 PM
Maybe so. Where do you think our staff rates in the east headed into next season?
We have money to sign a TOR guy this offseason. After we finish this train wreck of a season though, do you think one will sign here? I have my doubts.
I just really think trading wood is gonna bite us big time
Trading Wood could bite us but honestly as much as I liked him, I think he was performing above his ceiling. He is a back end or mid rotation guy that has been pitching like a #2. His velocity is down some, K/9 way down, opponents hitting him better, BABIP is up a lot, may be nothing but we may have sold him at his peak as well. 50/50 either way but again I liked him and probably stuck with him for another year anyway. Because he is still effective right now.
What will our staff be next year? So much depends on who develops. And honestly don't know if we try to sign someone or not. There are multiple ways we can go about filling our needs in the offseason but taking on salary for a bat is probably where I would go to begin with. Look at some real bull pen help. We have a lot of starting pitching depth down through the organization so unless I get really good value for someone, I'm probably buying a bat and catcher.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 08:58 PM
Trading Wood could bite us but honestly as much as I liked him, I think he was performing above his ceiling. He is a back end or mid rotation guy that has been pitching like a #2. His velocity is down some, K/9 way down, opponents hitting him better, BABIP is up a lot, may be nothing but we may have sold him at his peak as well. 50/50 either way but again I liked him and probably stuck with him for another year anyway. Because he is still effective right now.
What will our staff be next year? So much depends on who develops. And honestly don't know if we try to sign someone or not. There are multiple ways we can go about filling our needs in the offseason but taking on salary for a bat is probably where I would go to begin with. Look at some real bull pen help. We have a lot of starting pitching depth down through the organization so unless I get really good value for someone, I'm probably buying a bat and catcher.
If we're out to buy a catcher, it's weiters or bust. There's no one else. We held AJ and he'll most likely be back platooning with Bethancourt.
The FA pool is deep with starters. I'd go after Zimmermann, grienke, or price since we moved wood.
I wouldn't even be mad about wood if I felt we got a good deal. I just really hate we traded a 2b prospect and a solid starter for a 30-year old who can't seem to stay healthy
msstate7
08-01-2015, 09:12 PM
@DOBrienAJC
#Braves Simmons hurt his right thumb, just saw him with it wrapped.
...
100 losses... Here we come
msstate7
08-01-2015, 09:42 PM
4-11 since Fredi's extension.
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 09:57 PM
If we're out to buy a catcher, it's weiters or bust. There's no one else. We held AJ and he'll most likely be back platooning with Bethancourt.
The FA pool is deep with starters. I'd go after Zimmermann, grienke, or price since we moved wood.
I wouldn't even be mad about wood if I felt we got a good deal. I just really hate we traded a 2b prospect and a solid starter for a 30-year old who can't seem to stay healthy
Well should have said get a catcher or buy. And I don't mind paying for pitching but it is still a position of strength in the organization. And the Braves are still going to have be mindful of the spending. We are going to have to buy a bat probably for a corner outfielder and depending on how Olivera does at 3rd maybe one for that position as well. Those 3 pitchers you named are going to be in very high demand and unless we can get one at good value it's almost a guarantee that we can't match a big dollar club. And for all the complaining about a 30 year old Olivera those pitchers are the same age. Granted he still has to prove himself in the bigs like they no doubt have but $20 mil per year is the start for those guys. Now if we are trading away pitching this offseason to get a controllable bat then we can consider a pitcher but I think I still work on elevating the position players, catcher and bull pen first.
And in reference to your post right above that, you were talking about one game with Wisler and question if he can be a starter. Forgetting the other games he pitched really well in. Knee jerk and that's not the first time. When Peterson was hitting well the first half of the year you were all for getting rid of Peraza. That's what I mean about taking small samples to voice your opinion on a player. They will have bad stretches. All players do. Especially young guys. I do think he is self correcting some right now. But Peraza didn't look like he was ready for next year either.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 10:05 PM
Well should have said get a catcher or buy. And I don't mind paying for pitching but it is still a position of strength in the organization. And the Braves are still going to have be mindful of the spending. We are going to have to buy a bat probably for a corner outfielder and depending on how Olivera does at 3rd maybe one for that position as well. Those 3 pitchers you named are going to be in very high demand and unless we can get one at good value it's almost a guarantee that we can't match a big dollar club. And for all the complaining about a 30 year old Olivera those pitchers are the same age. Granted he still has to prove himself in the bigs like they no doubt have but $20 mil per year is the start for those guys. Now if we are trading away pitching this offseason to get a controllable bat then we can consider a pitcher but I think I still work on elevating the position players, catcher and bull pen first.
And in reference to your post right above that, you were talking about one game with Wisler and question if he can be a starter. Forgetting the other games he pitched really well in. Knee jerk and that's not the first time. When Peterson was hitting well the first half of the year you were all for getting rid of Peraza. That's what I mean about taking small samples to voice your opinion on a player. They will have bad stretches. All players do. Especially young guys. I do think he is self correcting some right now. But Peraza didn't look like he was ready for next year either.
I have no doubts that I knee jerk. I'm a hardcore braves' FAN. I feel like hart had a hard on for Olivera and the Dodgers took hart to the cleaners for that love of a player. I hope I'm wrong. I want to be wrong. I just don't feel I am at this exact moment haha
msstate7
08-01-2015, 10:06 PM
Oh and I would've been much happier using wood for lucroy. Re-sign uribe as a stop gap. Give peraza a shot at 2b
msstate7
08-01-2015, 10:10 PM
Shoeless and really... You guys should check out www.chopcountry.com
It's a great Braves' board in this same format. Thanks again, smoot
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 10:24 PM
Oh and I would've been much happier using wood for lucroy. Re-sign uribe as a stop gap. Give peraza a shot at 2b
Brewers were not dealing him. Can want him but they were not getting rid of him. So that is a moot idea. And there are other guys out there you just have to find the right partner willing to deal but we may have to over pay for a great catcher if that's the route you go. Rather get a good defensive catcher who can handle a staff but is limited offensively. If I can get an equal value or give up slightly over value if it's a great catcher thats great but we don't have to do that.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 10:28 PM
Brewers were not dealing him. Can want him but they were not getting rid of him. So that is a moot idea. And there are other guys out there you just have to find the right partner willing to deal but we may have to over pay for a great catcher if that's the route you go. Rather get a good defensive catcher who can handle a staff but is limited offensively. If I can get an equal value or give up slightly over value if it's a great catcher thats great but we don't have to do that.
The problem with going with a defensive catcher is we have too many holes in our lineup. Simmons can't be counted on offensively. Peterson is flopping. We need offense.
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 10:41 PM
The problem with going with a defensive catcher is we have too many holes in our lineup. Simmons can't be counted on offensively. Peterson is flopping. We need offense.
And since we don't have a ready bat in the minors we will have to buy or trade for one. That's why I said that is where I would look this offseason more so than an ACE pitcher. You wrap up $150-200 mil in one of those three high profile pitchers you mentioned earlier then you will have to sacrifice securing premium bats through free agency. You will have to go the trade route almost exclusively to hopefully get someone and limit what you will get at catcher as well. But getting a stop gap at 2nd (if Olivera sticks at 3rd at about the same price Uribe would have cost per year) a good catcher and big outfield bat can be doable with the combination of free agency and trades.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 10:52 PM
And since we don't have a ready bat in the minors we will have to buy or trade for one. That's why I said that is where I would look this offseason more so than an ACE pitcher. You wrap up $150-200 mil in one of those three high profile pitchers you mentioned earlier then you will have to sacrifice securing premium bats through free agency. You will have to go the trade route almost exclusively to hopefully get someone and limit what you will get at catcher as well. But getting a stop gap at 2nd (if Olivera sticks at 3rd at about the same price Uribe would have cost per year) a good catcher and big outfield bat can be doable with the combination of free agency and trades.
If Olivera sucks at 3b, we're done. We've went all in on him. If he doesn't pan out, we'll be picking top 10 again next season.
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 11:01 PM
If Olivera sucks at 3b, we're done. We've went all in on him. If he doesn't pan out, we'll be picking top 10 again next season.
No he could still play 2nd and at his salary it is much less than a significant upgrade for 3rd. And if he does stick it is at a very good value.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 11:01 PM
Found this interesting...
David price era last 3 years...
'15 = 2.53
'14 = 3.26
'13 = 3.33
Zimmermann...
'15 = 3.36
'14 = 2.66
'13 = 3.25
Grienke...
'15 = 1.41
'14 = 2.71
'13 = 2.63
Wood...
'15 = 3.54
'14 = 2.78
'13 = 3.13
Wood is 24. I really hope we don't regret trading him
msstate7
08-01-2015, 11:03 PM
No he could still play 2nd and at his salary it is much less than a significant upgrade for 3rd. And if he does stick it is at a very good value.
Money wise yeah. You've got to look at what peraza and wood do though. If wood keeps pitching well, we really screwed ourselves big time if Olivera sucks
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 11:17 PM
Money wise yeah. You've got to look at what peraza and wood do though. If wood keeps pitching well, we really screwed ourselves big time if Olivera sucks
And if....it's all hypothetical at this point. What if Olivera does hit close to .300 with 20+ hr. What if wood blows his arm out again. It's all a gamble and yes they have made a big gamble. But none of that means we should be in the Zimmer, Price, Greinke sweepstakes.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 11:23 PM
And if....it's all hypothetical at this point. What if Olivera does hit close to .300 with 20+ hr. What if wood blows his arm out again. It's all a gamble and yes they have made a big gamble. But none of that means we should be in the Zimmer, Price, Greinke sweepstakes.
If Teheran rebounds and miller keeps it up, I'm still not sure wisler/banuelos/Jenkins/folty/Perez can give us the innings or production to help us win the east. I hope winning the east is the goal next season. I'd like to add a veteran starter even if he's not the level of zimm, grienke, or price.
Oh and if Olivera gives us .300 and 20 hr's, I'll be estatic
shoeless joe
08-01-2015, 11:38 PM
For some reason I get the feeling the braves are going to go hard after price this winter...may be way off base but i could see it happening.
I'm not gonna get up or down on hart rite now...gotta let it play out and see where it goes. At this point he could be a genius or a dumbass.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 11:43 PM
For some reason I get the feeling the braves are going to go hard after price this winter...may be way off base but i could see it happening.
I'm not gonna get up or down on hart rite now...gotta let it play out and see where it goes. At this point he could be a genius or a dumbass.
I think we'll go after a top starter. We have plenty of money to spend and we now have a hole in our rotation
Really Clark?
08-01-2015, 11:43 PM
If Teheran rebounds and miller keeps it up, I'm still not sure wisler/banuelos/Jenkins/folty/Perez can give us the innings or production to help us win the east. I hope winning the east is the goal next season. I'd like to add a veteran starter even if he's not the level of zimm, grienke, or price.
Oh and if Olivera gives us .300 and 20 hr's, I'll be estatic
And honestly I don't think Olivera will give us 20+ bombs. I think he has a better shot at .300. But he could be .270-.280 with 15 hr which is still good value for his salary offensively. Wood is think trends down some as well but who knows. As far as Peraza, I think he will be an avg to good player but right now he doesn't look like a lead off to me because of his low OBP. That has always been an issue and his upside value has always been as a lead off. But he gets that straight and it could hurt and I wish Albies was closer but maybe the office see him being ready for 2017. His development is also key on whether this trade makes sense. He looks like a potential really good lead off man. Time will tell.
msstate7
08-01-2015, 11:52 PM
Oh and I guess it's possible minor is the rotation next season
Really Clark?
08-02-2015, 12:00 AM
If I look at starting pitching, and maybe club does go after someone big, but I think I made look at someone like Mike Leake. Young and the last two years and this year look good. I think he someone we might could get a little more reasonable and be solid. But again I'm probably putting a premium for a bat over a starter right now.
As far as Minor goes, if I can get some good starts out of him it's a bonus and sell as soon as I can get a descent return.
msstate7
08-02-2015, 12:05 AM
If I look at starting pitching, and maybe club does go after someone big, but I think I made look at someone like Mike Leake. Young and the last two years and this year look good. I think he someone we might could get a little more reasonable and be solid. But again I'm probably putting a premium for a bat over a starter right now.
As far as Minor goes, if I can get some good starts out of him it's a bonus and sell as soon as I can get a descent return.
We'll have to pay what 5.5 million to keep minor?
I like leake
Really Clark?
08-02-2015, 12:23 AM
We'll have to pay what 5.5 million to keep minor?
I like leake
Something like that but he is definitely on the verge of not getting back to form. Have to see.
msstate7
08-03-2015, 01:26 PM
I was thrilled to see Teheran pitch so well on the road yesterday. If Teheran keeps it up and bird pitches well tonight, I'll feel better about trading wood assuming Olivera is the real deal
BoomBoom
08-03-2015, 04:43 PM
I think we'll go after a top starter. We have plenty of money to spend and we now have a hole in our rotation
supposedly we have as much as $60M per year to spend starting next year. that's what getting bad contracts off the books will do for you.
msstate7
08-03-2015, 04:49 PM
supposedly we have as much as $60M per year to spend starting next year. that's what getting bad contracts off the books will do for you.
Go get price and a LF. Pretty sure we'll need a catcher too. Hopefully Bethancourt gets the call soon so we can know for sure. Really wish he'd catch 80% of our games from here out
smootness
08-03-2015, 06:48 PM
I don't see $60 million available unless we start increasing the payroll by a good bit in anticipation of the new stadium.
Assuming we do have that much, I'd prefer to spend about $40 million of it on 2 big pieces...not an ace but a good starter along the lines of Kazmir, then a legit bat (personally, I would love to trade for Nelson Cruz if we are really serious about contending in 2016 and 2017).
I would use the rest on decent pieces here and there.
BoomBoom
08-03-2015, 07:31 PM
I don't see $60 million available unless we start increasing the payroll by a good bit in anticipation of the new stadium.
Assuming we do have that much, I'd prefer to spend about $40 million of it on 2 big pieces...not an ace but a good starter along the lines of Kazmir, then a legit bat (personally, I would love to trade for Nelson Cruz if we are really serious about contending in 2016 and 2017).
I would use the rest on decent pieces here and there.
2016 current obligations are $60M. that leaves $40-60M. a corner OF masher is a must. hard to say what else is a must, so i would break the bank getting the best OF on the market, if the right one is available. looks like that's Cespedes, Gordon, Upton and Heyward. meh. maybe wait on that till 2017, if that class looks stronger.
the SP class does look strong, so maybe that is a viable path, as much as i'd rather get hitting than pitching.
Dawg61
08-07-2015, 03:32 PM
Hey 7 are you blackout drunk? Your boy Chris Johnson just got traded for a prosthetic Swisher and a rubberized Bourn.
msstate7
08-07-2015, 05:36 PM
Hey 7 are you blackout drunk? Your boy Chris Johnson just got traded for a prosthetic Swisher and a rubberized Bourn.
I think I'll get drunk now. I'm not sure how I feel about this trade. Glad to get rid of CJ. Not happy to see swisher or Bourn. Maybe one will resurrect their career.
I'm still watching every night, but it's getting hard. Please get here college football
MetEdDawg
08-07-2015, 05:40 PM
I think I'll get drunk now. I'm not sure how I feel about this trade. Glad to get rid of CJ. Not happy to see swisher or Bourn. Maybe one will resurrect their career.
I'm still watching every night, but it's getting hard. Please get here college football
This. I'm a die hard Braves fan but it's hard to continue to see guys like Shelby Miller get crapped on with no run support, or Freddie stay injured, or the bullpen continue to blow games. We knew this was going to be a charlie foxtrot this year but it seems like everything has gone straight to hell since Freddie got hurt. Team seemed to give up after that.
I don't understand this trade honestly. I mean I understand getting rid of CJ for money purposes but Swisher and Bourn have a lot on their contracts too. We got some cash considerations in this deal to offset some of the cost so my guess is this is just a temporary home for them for the remainder of the year.
msstate7
08-07-2015, 07:43 PM
I'd love to see our young starters (Perez, wisler, and folty) step it up down the stretch. They've been struggling lately. I'd feel a lot better if 2 them starting pitching well this last month.
I'm pulling for Garcia, eury, and Castro to finish strong also. I think they could be solid bench players for next season.
War Machine Dawg
08-08-2015, 10:32 AM
I think I'll get drunk now. I'm not sure how I feel about this trade. Glad to get rid of CJ. Not happy to see swisher or Bourn. Maybe one will resurrect their career.
I'm still watching every night, but it's getting hard. Please get here college football
You're insane, I've pretty much quit watching. I'm indifferent about the trade. Basically, it was a bad contract swap. And with Nick Swisher we get Nick Swisher's wife, so I say win for the Braves. Plus the Indians are giving us $10M. The way I see it, we got rid of a clubhouse problem in CJ and added a chemistry guy or two. The trade doesn't really help either team on the field, so I don't really care about the "who won" aspect.
MetEdDawg
08-09-2015, 09:34 AM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think we are still maybe in this thing a little bit? Lot of experience and leadership on this team now. AJ, Bourn, Swisher, Gomes, Freeman, Markakis, Shelby Miller. There's a lot of guys who have been there done that. If the pitching solidifies over the last month and a half and we continue to hit like we have (I believe we have 68 hits through 6 games of the 7 game home stand), we've got a chance at this thing. Guys are starting to hit consistently now. Markakis and AJ have hitting streaks in the teens, Garcia is heating up, hopefully Olivera joins the team in the next couple of weeks.
We've got 7 more each against the Nats and Mets and are only 8.5 out of the division. If our pitching can come together here I think we've got enough horses to at least make a game of it or ruin someone else's playoff chances. I kind of like this team right now and they are way more fun to watch than last year's team.
shoeless joe
08-09-2015, 09:42 AM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think we are still maybe in this thing a little bit? Lot of experience and leadership on this team now. AJ, Bourn, Swisher, Gomes, Freeman, Markakis, Shelby Miller. There's a lot of guys who have been there done that. If the pitching solidifies over the last month and a half and we continue to hit like we have (I believe we have 68 hits through 6 games of the 7 game home stand), we've got a chance at this thing. Guys are starting to hit consistently now. Markakis and AJ have hitting streaks in the teens, Garcia is heating up, hopefully Olivera joins the team in the next couple of weeks.
We've got 7 more each against the Nats and Mets and are only 8.5 out of the division. If our pitching can come together here I think we've got enough horses to at least make a game of it or ruin someone else's playoff chances. I kind of like this team right now and they are way more fun to watch than last year's team.
Still think we are a .500 team at best. But I will enjoy watching this team from here on out.
msstate7
08-09-2015, 09:53 AM
Is it just me, or does anyone else think we are still maybe in this thing a little bit? Lot of experience and leadership on this team now. AJ, Bourn, Swisher, Gomes, Freeman, Markakis, Shelby Miller. There's a lot of guys who have been there done that. If the pitching solidifies over the last month and a half and we continue to hit like we have (I believe we have 68 hits through 6 games of the 7 game home stand), we've got a chance at this thing. Guys are starting to hit consistently now. Markakis and AJ have hitting streaks in the teens, Garcia is heating up, hopefully Olivera joins the team in the next couple of weeks.
We've got 7 more each against the Nats and Mets and are only 8.5 out of the division. If our pitching can come together here I think we've got enough horses to at least make a game of it or ruin someone else's playoff chances. I kind of like this team right now and they are way more fun to watch than last year's team.
11 of last 16 series are against winning teams. If FF and Olivera get back soon and catch fire, I think we could make a run at .500.
.500, our young starters pitching well down the stretch, Olivera being a stud player, and Bethancourt looking like an mlb catcher in September are what I really wanna see. If the mets and nats have a September collapse that allows us to make a run that would be great, but it would take them both collapsing for us make the playoffs
MetEdDawg
08-09-2015, 10:02 AM
11 of last 16 series are against winning teams. If FF and Olivera get back soon and catch fire, I think we could make a run at .500.
.500, our young starters pitching well down the stretch, Olivera being a stud player, and Bethancourt looking like an mlb catcher in September are what I really wanna see. If the mets and nats have a September collapse that allows us to make a run that would be great, but it would take them both collapsing for us make the playoffs
The thing that impresses me the most is that as a losing team I think we got better in the last week. I hated seeing Wood go, but one thing we do have is starting pitching depth. And I'm with you, I want to see how well Perez, Wisler, Folty, and Banuelos do at the end. But I like what we've put together. I don't know what we can do with the contracts of Bourn and Swisher for next year, but if we can figure something out, I would like to keep one of them. Probably more Swisher than Bourn just because I like Swisher at a utility guy that can play 1st when Freeman is hurt/resting and a corner OF spot too. And right now I think Eury Perez and Bourn are close to the same player with Eury having a better arm.
We finished 4 games below .500 last year. If we can do better than that, I would be ecstatic about the future. If we can get an offseason bat, we are a contender next year. I still think we might make a run at Cespedes in the offseason. Not sure if there will be any other RH OF power bats next year but he's probably the best. Add him into a lineup with Markakis, Freeman, Olivera, hopefully Maybin, then you've got something. Then Teheran, Miller, Folty, Williams Perez, Banuelos, or Wisler, and that's a darn good looking rotation. Need some bullpen help but I like what we've got next year potentially.
msstate7
08-09-2015, 10:14 AM
The thing that impresses me the most is that as a losing team I think we got better in the last week. I hated seeing Wood go, but one thing we do have is starting pitching depth. And I'm with you, I want to see how well Perez, Wisler, Folty, and Banuelos do at the end. But I like what we've put together. I don't know what we can do with the contracts of Bourn and Swisher for next year, but if we can figure something out, I would like to keep one of them. Probably more Swisher than Bourn just because I like Swisher at a utility guy that can play 1st when Freeman is hurt/resting and a corner OF spot too. And right now I think Eury Perez and Bourn are close to the same player with Eury having a better arm.
We finished 4 games below .500 last year. If we can do better than that, I would be ecstatic about the future. If we can get an offseason bat, we are a contender next year. I still think we might make a run at Cespedes in the offseason. Not sure if there will be any other RH OF power bats next year but he's probably the best. Add him into a lineup with Markakis, Freeman, Olivera, hopefully Maybin, then you've got something. Then Teheran, Miller, Folty, Williams Perez, Banuelos, or Wisler, and that's a darn good looking rotation. Need some bullpen help but I like what we've got next year potentially.
I expect Bourn in cf next season and Maybin traded in the offseason
MetEdDawg
08-09-2015, 10:20 AM
I expect Bourn in cf next season and Maybin traded in the offseason
I sure hope not. I love what Maybin has done. He's a few years younger than Bourn, He's got a better arm, he covers more ground I think, and he just really loves being in Atlanta. I think we could get him for 2 or 3 years at 18-25 million and that would be a good buy for us.
shoeless joe
08-09-2015, 01:56 PM
Doubt the braves go after cespedes...he's known as a "not so great" clubhouse guy and one of the whole purposes of this rebuild was to clean house in that regard.
msstate7
08-09-2015, 02:18 PM
@mlbbowman
Bourn is not playing today, but there won't be a strict platoon in LF. Still a chance the Braves will trade Gomes.
....
Would love to move Gomes. Really no need to keep Gomes and swisher.
trob115
08-09-2015, 02:41 PM
I doubt maybin is traded. Hart has said numerous times they love maybin on the field and in the clubhouse. He's a local guy that's performing well. Bourn is going to be mentoring mallex smith and playing Lf.
msstate7
08-09-2015, 02:43 PM
Chris Johnson 4-4 in Indians debut
msstate7
08-09-2015, 02:48 PM
I doubt maybin is traded. Hart has said numerous times they love maybin on the field and in the clubhouse. He's a local guy that's performing well. Bourn is going to be mentoring mallex smith and playing Lf.
If Bourn is gonna mentor Mallex, then wouldn't Mallex have to be on the team? Mallex won't be on team as long as Bourn and Maybin are on the team.
I just have a hunch Maybin will be moved. Bourn has been the better defensive cf this year, yet we play Maybin in cf. I think that's to keep Maybin's value as high as possible.
Move Maybin, sign a LF, and play Bourn till Mallex is ready in cf. This is my guess.
Since you mentioned Bourn mentoring Mallex, I thought about those 2 and Bourn is a good comparison to Mallex. Really fast leadoff type that strikes out a bit more than you like
trob115
08-09-2015, 03:41 PM
We will see, but I just don't see the Braves being a major player for any of the major free agents this year , pitchers included. I think next year's free agency is a lot stronger in bats and we could see a move then. If you move maybin, that leaves a gaping hole in the outfield and I don't see the Braves giving him up unless it's for an immediate can't miss top prospect.
msstate7
08-09-2015, 03:47 PM
We will see, but I just don't see the Braves being a major player for any of the major free agents this year , pitchers included. I think next year's free agency is a lot stronger in bats and we could see a move then. If you move maybin, that leaves a gaping hole in the outfield and I don't see the Braves giving him up unless it's for an immediate can't miss top prospect.
Gonna be another interesting offseason. Fwiw, I like and wanna keep Maybin unless Mallex somehow wins the cf job in ST
msstate7
08-10-2015, 11:48 AM
Allard debut...
1.0 ip 0 h 0 bb 0 er 3 k
Not bad
msstate7
08-11-2015, 07:39 AM
Peraza debut with Dodgers at 2b...
1-4, 3b
Hope we don't regret this trade
msstate7
08-15-2015, 07:35 AM
Teheran seems to be back... Great sign.
Olivera and FF are both on assignments. Should see both in a week or so. I'm excited about seeing Olivera.
Still wanna see our young starters start pitching better. Perez had a nice start this week, but that's it lately. Hopefull they're bout to turn the corner.
Ready to see what we do with Garcia when Olivera comes up. I'd send him down and let him play 3b, 1b, and LF in AAA. If he can handle LF and 1b defensively, he could be a nice utility guy next season. Love his bat
Teheran seems to be back... Great sign.
Olivera and FF are both on assignments. Should see both in a week or so. I'm excited about seeing Olivera.
Still wanna see our young starters start pitching better. Perez had a nice start this week, but that's it lately. Hopefull they're bout to turn the corner.
Ready to see what we do with Garcia when Olivera comes up. I'd send him down and let him play 3b, 1b, and LF in AAA. If he can handle LF and 1b defensively, he could be a nice utility guy next season. Love his bat
Teheran looked great last night. He looked like he did back in 2013 and 2014 when he was an All Star. If he keeps pitching like that, he's clearly a #1 or #2 in the rotation.
Matt Wisler is at about 57 major league innings. Teams have film on him now, and he needs to adjust to what they are doing. He's a very young pitcher, so that process will not be an overnight thing. Tom Glavine and John Smoltz weren't HOF pitchers at 23.
Mike Foltynewicz is the guy I want to see progress the rest of the way. He has John Smoltz type stuff, and like a young Smoltz, command and emotions can get the best of him. Overall, I think he has the best stuff of anyone on the staff. With that said, he could figure in as a starter or back end of the bullpen guy going forward.
Peraza debut with Dodgers at 2b...
1-4, 3b
Hope we don't regret this trade
Alex Wood has a 5+ ERA since the trade. Jim Johnson's ERA is like 29 right now after the trade. Peraza's triple was a bloop single that Bryce Harper misplayed. It shouldn't be scored a triple, but that's the threat his speed gives you. He didn't have a position with the Braves though. The Braves felt he was very much sub par defensively at 2B. He's a good contact hitter whose speed is valuable, but Mallex Smith is an 80 speed guy who has better skill at getting on base. Behind him, Ozhaino Albies also has shown better awareness of the strike zone at the plate at a young age.
If Olivera plays the way the Braves scouts believe he will, the Braves will not regret this trade. Wood was the one I didn't want to lose, but I do wonder if there is some Tommy Hanson there with him in that his delivery may lead to arm problems at a young age.
msstate7
08-15-2015, 08:33 AM
Alex Wood has a 5+ ERA since the trade. Jim Johnson's ERA is like 29 right now after the trade. Peraza's triple was a bloop single that Bryce Harper misplayed. It shouldn't be scored a triple, but that's the threat his speed gives you. He didn't have a position with the Braves though. The Braves felt he was very much sub par defensively at 2B. He's a good contact hitter whose speed is valuable, but Mallex Smith is an 80 speed guy who has better skill at getting on base. Behind him, Ozhaino Albies also has shown better awareness of the strike zone at the plate at a young age.
If Olivera plays the way the Braves scouts believe he will, the Braves will not regret this trade. Wood was the one I didn't want to lose, but I do wonder if there is some Tommy Hanson there with him in that his delivery may lead to arm problems at a young age.
Wood hasn't been great for the Dodgers, but it's way early. I think wood will pitch well down the stretch. If we're using small samples, Olivera hasn't got a hit at the lowest level of the minors yet. Haha
I wasn't necessarily against trading wood and peraza. I just hope Olivera is worth them. His age and injury issues are a huge concern of mine
BoomBoom
08-15-2015, 10:03 AM
Alex Wood has a 5+ ERA since the trade. Jim Johnson's ERA is like 29 right now after the trade. Peraza's triple was a bloop single that Bryce Harper misplayed. It shouldn't be scored a triple, but that's the threat his speed gives you. He didn't have a position with the Braves though. The Braves felt he was very much sub par defensively at 2B. He's a good contact hitter whose speed is valuable, but Mallex Smith is an 80 speed guy who has better skill at getting on base. Behind him, Ozhaino Albies also has shown better awareness of the strike zone at the plate at a young age.
If Olivera plays the way the Braves scouts believe he will, the Braves will not regret this trade. Wood was the one I didn't want to lose, but I do wonder if there is some Tommy Hanson there with him in that his delivery may lead to arm problems at a young age.
I've never heard peraza described as sub par defensively. He has always been described as above average at SS.
msstate7
08-15-2015, 11:18 AM
I've never heard peraza described as sub par defensively. He has always been described as above average at SS.
If the plan was to trade peraza, we should've played him at ss in AAA. Maximize his trade value
msstate7
08-15-2015, 09:10 PM
I understand folty is still somewhat young, but geez. Consider me not a fan and not very hopeful about his future. Heard someone call him the white Juan Jamie and I'm starting to agree
War Machine Dawg
08-15-2015, 11:22 PM
I understand folty is still somewhat young, but geez. Consider me not a fan and not very hopeful about his future. Heard someone call him the white Juan Jamie and I'm starting to agree
I think his future is in the bullpen, not the rotation. He's pretty good for 1-3 innings, but then he gets shelled. First and foremost he's gotta get the control issues fixed, but it seems like he might need to add a pitch.
smootness
08-16-2015, 12:27 PM
I think his future is in the bullpen, not the rotation. He's pretty good for 1-3 innings, but then he gets shelled. First and foremost he's gotta get the control issues fixed, but it seems like he might need to add a pitch.
He had a few really good starts early in the year in which he pitched efficiently and was in control through 7 innings or so. I agree that he's got work to do if he wants to stick in a rotation, but his potential is still too high to throw in the pen just yet. He's shown flashes, so I'd let him start next year, either in MLB or AAA, and see if he can fix some of his issues. Even if not, though, we probably have a really good setup man or potential closer.
BoomBoom
08-16-2015, 01:59 PM
If the plan was to trade peraza, we should've played him at ss in AAA. Maximize his trade value
the plan had been for him to take over at 2B, so that's where he was playing. he started playing SS again in a week or two before he was traded, and got some time in CF before that, both after Jace had taken over at 2B.
msstate7
08-16-2015, 06:00 PM
Not crazy about the nats picking up paps today. Storen is killing it (along with Harper and scherzer, the only 3 projected regulars that have been at or better than expectations this year) and now they are again not showing confidence in him. Wouldn't surprise me to see him completely collapse in a setup roll and really don't blame him.
@mlbbowman
Dating back to the Papelbon trade (July 28):
Phillies 9-9, 3.22 bullpen ERA, 7/7 save ops
Nationals 6-14, 5.03 bullpen ERA, 2/4 save ops
Beaver
08-19-2015, 12:02 AM
Braves down 9-0 to the Padres in the 8th. Melvin Upton Jr. has 2 homers and 5 RBIs. Fun times...
msstate7
08-19-2015, 06:41 AM
Braves down 9-0 to the Padres in the 8th. Melvin Upton Jr. has 2 homers and 5 RBIs. Fun times...
What we need to do is extend fredi again and trade Teheran and Mallex smith for another 30+ year old position player... Maybe Andre ethier**
msstate7
08-19-2015, 07:11 AM
@mlbbowman
The #Braves have now lost 17 of their past 19 road games. They have gone 9-7 at home during this same span.
We're starting 4-5 position players (AJ, Bourn, markakis, swisher, Garcia, Gomes) that are 30 or older with Maybin knocking on the door. You would think all these veterans would help us win some road games. We're just old and suck.
AJ continuing to catch everyday is a joke with Bethancourt absolutely slashing at AAA.
I have zero confidence that wisler, folty, or Perez will be a starter long term.
We traded away a young lh starter and a top 50 prospect for another old position player that struggles to stay healthy.
Saying I'm frustrated and doubting what hart is doing is an understatement. Please get here sept 3rd...
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 07:36 AM
Neither of those three young pitchers have even started a full season. You would have pulled Cueto after his first year (4.81 era) if not sooner and put him in the pen. His second year you definitely would have made a change with him. They may not work out but it is extremely common for the first FULL season or TWO of starting (which none of these guys have done yet) to struggle.
Don't you think there is a very good reason Bethancourt is still in AAA? And what does his slash have to do with his troubles catching defensively. AJ hitting is fine so what bringing him up do for you? Showcase his MLB troubles again, including hitting possibly? Sept call ups are close and if we are looking at trading AJ soon then he needs to be hitting right now.
Bourne and Swisher?? you know what that deal was about. And with Fredi out who do you want playing 1st anyway?
msstate7
08-19-2015, 07:46 AM
Neither of those three young pitchers have even started a full season. You would have pulled Cueto after his first year (4.81 era) if not sooner and put him in the pen. His second year you definitely would have made a change with him. They may not work out but it is extremely common for the first FULL season or TWO of starting (which none of these guys have done yet) to struggle.
Don't you think there is a very good reason Bethancourt is still in AAA? And what does his slash have to do with his troubles catching defensively. AJ hitting is fine so what bringing him up do for you? Showcase his MLB troubles again, including hitting possibly? Sept call ups are close and if we are looking at trading AJ soon then he needs to be hitting right now.
We've already stated that AJ won't be traded. We want to extend him. Bethancourt has had 1 passed ball at Gwinnett.
I didn't say I was giving up on those 3 rookie pitchers. I said I have zero confidence they would stick as starters. We can't give up on them. I would demote one or move 1 to bullpen in favor of Jackson though. Jackson has pitched well this year and I'd like to see him get a shot at starting again.
Bethancourt was pulled early last night so hopefully he gets promoted today
msstate7
08-19-2015, 07:48 AM
I want Bourn in cf. Maybin has been terrible defensively and his throws are terrible. I'd start Maybin in LF unless we're planning on trading him in the offseason. I want Bourn and Mallex in cf next year
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 08:33 AM
We've already stated that AJ won't be traded. We want to extend him. Bethancourt has had 1 passed ball at Gwinnett.
I didn't say I was giving up on those 3 rookie pitchers. I said I have zero confidence they would stick as starters. We can't give up on them. I would demote one or move 1 to bullpen in favor of Jackson though. Jackson has pitched well this year and I'd like to see him get a shot at starting again.
Bethancourt was pulled early last night so hopefully he gets promoted today
That's right they did say that. So again what is Bethancourt going to bring you really? His batting numbers are inflated by a high BABIP. And at best his defense at AAA has been mixed with reports just earlier this month that he may be improving but not by much. Including his work ethic. I think they bring him back up but I think it will be limited. You showcase his lackluster defense behind the plate and he doesn't hit (like normal for him in the majors) then you his value plummets even further.
You can't say in one sentence you don't give up on them as starters but then demote one of them (when we have need for starters). You want to pull an older AJ, just for what reason I don't know other than Bethancourt is younger, even though he is the worse defender of the two. Just to see what the young catcher can do but you want to pull a young starter when this is the absolutely perfect time for them to be getting starts. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.
Tbonewannabe
08-19-2015, 08:56 AM
Only reason I can think is if they want Bethancourt around AJ to hopefully learn something but him not playing very often doesn't help his trade value.
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 09:06 AM
Only reason I can think is if they want Bethancourt around AJ to hopefully learn something but him not playing very often doesn't help his trade value.
Then why demote him to begin with? Why not keep him around this whole time learning from AJ? His value is pretty low but at least he has shown an offensive surge at AAA, though his numbers are inflated. If we are looking to trade in the offseason I don't think refreshing MLB scouts minds that he is basically a big arm helps. Maybe he takes a step forward but if he is the same player from earlier this season then his value drops even more.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 09:19 AM
That's right they did say that. So again what is Bethancourt going to bring you really? His batting numbers are inflated by a high BABIP. And at best his defense at AAA has been mixed with reports just earlier this month that he may be improving but not by much. Including his work ethic. I think they bring him back up but I think it will be limited. You showcase his lackluster defense behind the plate and he doesn't hit (like normal for him in the majors) then you his value plummets even further.
You can't say in one sentence you don't give up on them as starters but then demote one of them (when we have need for starters). You want to pull an older AJ, just for what reason I don't know other than Bethancourt is younger, even though he is the worse defender of the two. Just to see what the young catcher can do but you want to pull a young starter when this is the absolutely perfect time for them to be getting starts. Your logic makes absolutely no sense.
I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 09:50 AM
I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?
What does starting Jackson do for us for the future? Playing AJ is still about the better catcher handling young pitchers. I'm not saying don't give him some looks but I rather have the pitchers getting the better catcher to evaluate them properly as well. It's not like wanting to see a young position player elsewhere. Let Bethancourt catch Terehan only. Or every 7th day.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:11 AM
What does starting Jackson do for us for the future? Playing AJ is still about the better catcher handling young pitchers. I'm not saying don't give him some looks but I rather have the pitchers getting the better catcher to evaluate them properly as well. It's not like wanting to see a young position player elsewhere. Let Bethancourt catch Terehan only. Or every 7th day.
Edwin is 31 and still has good stuff. In 34.1 ip, he's struck out 27. He could be valuable as a 5th starter or as a trade piece next season. AJ is 38.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:19 AM
Saw this on another board and found it interesting...
Melvin JR: 102 WRC+ and 0.9 WAR in 51 games
Markakis: 105 WRC+ and 1.0 WAR in 117 games
Maybin: 107 WRC_ and 1.4 WAR in 109 games
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 10:25 AM
Edwin is 31 and still has good stuff. In 34.1 ip, he's struck out 27. He could be valuable as a 5th starter or as a trade piece next season. AJ is 38.
You keep going in a circle. You want to see what a young catcher has at the expense of an inexperienced staff but use a veteran pitcher over young pitchers who need innings. His last three years as a starter has produced 4.03, 4.98, 6.33 era's. He has never been more than a possible back end/bullpen arm. Give him a spot start maybe but that makes no sense to help determine our future starters. And he won't bring back much even if he pitches pretty well. His K and Walk numbers this year are almost the same as his career totals but he is benefitting well from not having to go through a complete lineup more than once. We know what Jackson is.
RocketCityDawg
08-19-2015, 10:30 AM
I wanna play Bethancourt bc he may be our future or he may not, but we need to know. If we're playing for '17, what does playing AJ accomplish?
I think they've already decided that Bethancourt is NOT our future.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:43 AM
I think they've already decided that Bethancourt is NOT our future.
I think you're right. I think this is why they put out that bashing bowman wrote about him. Bethancourt goes down, hits well, and has defended well, so we release an article saying his preparation sucks. Hart seems to wanna get rid of everybody wren left. Now I hear Teheran could be on the block as further evidence. Wouldn't surprise me if albies is next. I lost faith in hart after Fredi's extension and his man crush on Olivera.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:45 AM
You keep going in a circle. You want to see what a young catcher has at the expense of an inexperienced staff but use a veteran pitcher over young pitchers who need innings. His last three years as a starter has produced 4.03, 4.98, 6.33 era's. He has never been more than a possible back end/bullpen arm. Give him a spot start maybe but that makes no sense to help determine our future starters. And he won't bring back much even if he pitches pretty well. His K and Walk numbers this year are almost the same as his career totals but he is benefitting well from not having to go through a complete lineup more than once. We know what Jackson is.
Do we not know what AJ is by now? He's a very good BACKUP at this point of his career
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:50 AM
BravesReddit
Albies has ascended up the ranks from the #35 prospect to the #12 prospect according to Kiley McDaniels
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-post-trade-deadline-prospect-update/
At 18.6 years of age, he's the youngest on the list, so who knows where he wins up as he continues to develop.
....
If hart trades this kid, I'm gonna blow a gasket.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 10:55 AM
Bethancourt at Gwinnett...
.323 avg .358 obp .481 slugging .839 ops 1 passed ball caught 14 of 32 baserunners
What more does he have to do?
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:03 AM
Do we not know what AJ is by now? He's a very good BACKUP at this point of his career
Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.
You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:05 AM
Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.
You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.
You're right. Aj's presence behind the plate is doing wonders for our young starters. They've been terrific
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:10 AM
Good lord! You keep going in circles that make no sense. He will be handling the INEXPERIENCED pitchers. It's not just about what he can do offensively. It's about mentoring, game calling, helping the young pitchers. Totally different situation altogether.
You think the front office needs to make up stories about Bethancourt? He wrote his own story in the games and attitude this year. He will not hit at the MLB level like his numbers are right now. He is .080 points higher in BABIP than his career numbers. You adjust that and he is at best a .240-.250 hitter. And in the majors so far he is not even a .200 hitter. But if the front office goes in a different direction he has no one to blame but himself.
Bethancourt's career high in walks in the minors is 17 for a year. Since his demotion, he has 11. Do you not think that's a sign of a maturing hitter?
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:17 AM
Bethancourt's career high in walks in the minors is 17 for a year. Since his demotion, he has 11. Do you not think that's a sign of a maturing hitter?
Does the fact that his BABIP would put him in the top 10 in the MLB not register that his numbers are extremely inflated? He will not sustain those numbers. Now would I believe his power is starting to come? Yes. But he is not ever going to be a .300+ hitter. Maybe he is maturing, he should he is getting older and if his demotion didn't light a fire under his attitude then he may be a head case. And going back to your previous statement, if we are looking to get rid of him, why would the front office have a story manufactured that still puts him in a bad light? That makes absolutely no sense. If anything it would have me believe they may be sugar coating things with enough honesty to entice a buyer.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:18 AM
Btw, you're for letting wisler, Perez, and folty work out wrinkles at this level, but not Bethancourt. Here's their ages...
Folty 23
Wisler 22
Perez 24
Bethancourt 23
Why should I be patient with the starters, but not Bethancourt?
Also Bethancourt is working with who I think will be the best of the upper minor/barely mlb starters in Jenkins and doing a great job
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:20 AM
You're right. Aj's presence behind the plate is doing wonders for our young starters. They've been terrific
They actually have had some good outings. The MLB hitters adjusted, they are still learning their craft, and they have to learn to adjust as well. How many hall of fame pitchers have numbers the same or worse their first couple of years? Tons. And if you think it would have been just as good or better with Bethancourt you are out of your mind.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:22 AM
Does the fact that his BABIP would put him in the top 10 in the MLB not register that his numbers are extremely inflated? He will not sustain those numbers. Now would I believe his power is starting to come? Yes. But he is not ever going to be a .300+ hitter. Maybe he is maturing, he should he is getting older and if his demotion didn't light a fire under his attitude then he may be a head case. And going back to your previous statement, if we are looking to get rid of him, why would the front office have a story manufactured that still puts him in a bad light? That makes absolutely no sense. If anything it would have me believe they may be sugar coating things with enough honesty to entice a buyer.
If Bethancourt can hit .250 /.320 obp with some pop and throw out runners at a high clip, I'll be happy
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:22 AM
Btw, you're for letting wisler, Perez, and folty work out wrinkles at this level, but not Bethancourt. Here's their ages...
Folty 23
Wisler 22
Perez 24
Bethancourt 23
Why should I be patient with the starters, but not Bethancourt?
Also Bethancourt is working with who I think will be the best of the upper minor/barely mlb starters in Jenkins and doing a great job
BECAUSE YOU NEED EXPERIENCE BEHIND THE PLATE TO HELP THEM FOR THE TENTH TIME.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:23 AM
They actually have had some good outings. The MLB hitters adjusted, they are still learning their craft, and they have to learn to adjust as well. How many hall of fame pitchers have numbers the same or worse their first couple of years? Tons. And if you think it would have been just as good or better with Bethancourt you are out of your mind.
I think they could learn together and get chemistry. Do you think they would be worse? They're all around the 5 era mark
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:25 AM
BECAUSE YOU NEED EXPERIENCE BEHIND THE PLATE TO HELP THEM FOR THE TENTH TIME.
Where would that awesome young met staff be without that crafty veteran, d'Arnaud?
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:34 AM
If Bethancourt can hit .250 /.320 obp with some pop and throw out runners at a high clip, I'll be happy
Who wouldn't? If he has actually decided not to be lazy behind the plate. But during the trading period you were pitching every idea you could think of to get Lucroy and get rid of Bethancourt. Now you have flipped the script again. If he finally develops into what the average projection has been for him then that fine, but the lazy and bad attitude stuff had better be gone and if there are any doubts with the front office I don't have a problem going in a different direction.
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 11:38 AM
Where would that awesome young met staff be without that crafty veteran, d'Arnaud?
He has played in 32 games this year. Don't know where you are going with him?
And the Mets have one starter under the age of 25.
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:51 AM
He has played in 32 games this year. Don't know where you are going with him?
And the Mets have one starter under the age of 25.
Harvey is in 3rd year
deGrom is in 2nd year
Rookie starter
All young starters
Plawecki is other met catcher. 25 years old
msstate7
08-19-2015, 11:52 AM
Who wouldn't? If he has actually decided not to be lazy behind the plate. But during the trading period you were pitching every idea you could think of to get Lucroy and get rid of Bethancourt. Now you have flipped the script again. If he finally develops into what the average projection has been for him then that fine, but the lazy and bad attitude stuff had better be gone and if there are any doubts with the front office I don't have a problem going in a different direction.
If we can get lucroy, I'm still on that
msstate7
08-19-2015, 12:06 PM
Really... I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore haha. I'm just pissed off and want to see Bethancourt get a shot. If Bethancourt comes up and plays well, 1 of our young starters turns the corner, and Olivera plays well when he gets up, I'll feel much better about this year than I do now. I don't hate AJ either. I actually like him, but as a backup
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 12:07 PM
Harvey is in 3rd year
deGrom is in 2nd year
Rookie starter
All young starters
Plawecki is other met catcher. 25 years old
You are comparing 2nd and 3rd year full time starters over the age of 25 with our three rookies who haven't even had half a season? Plawecki would not be there if it wasn't for an injury but he had graded much better at defense and pitch framing than Bethancourt and has a good arm himself. D'Naraud is an offensive minded catcher and was off to a an All-Star caliber start before breaking his hand.
Really Clark?
08-19-2015, 12:12 PM
Really... I don't even know what I'm arguing anymore haha. I'm just pissed off and want to see Bethancourt get a shot. If Bethancourt comes up and plays well, 1 of our young starters turns the corner, and Olivera plays well when he gets up, I'll feel much better about this year than I do now. I don't hate AJ either. I actually like him, but as a backup
Haha. Well if he does then great. I think it could give us some options, the risk is if he has not improved by much from earlier this year. But at least, if they really have doubts about him which I don't think they do, then you know you have to get a catcher somewhere. I think Olveria is going to hit pretty well. If we can get 3 good years out of him then it was possibly a really good deal considering the financials.
msstate7
08-20-2015, 08:27 PM
If pitching for the Braves doesn't work out, folty can always pitch the homerun derby.
I hate to see how bad folty would be without AJ catching him. Season era now 5.89.
msstate7
08-20-2015, 09:04 PM
Folty season era -- 6.06
Last era with Astros -- 5.30
I just don't see him ever being an effective starter
KevinMcAlpin
Over his last 5 starts, Foltynewicz has posted a 7.67 ERA (23 ER/27 IP) with 37 hits and 9 HR allowed. #Braves down 7-0, top 6 at Wrigley.
msstate7
08-22-2015, 09:54 AM
Since Fredi's extension, the Braves record is 10-21. The Braves have lost 20 of their last 22 road games. Extending fredi was the dumbest thing ever.
starkvegasdawg
08-22-2015, 10:06 AM
It's the 1980's all over again. Time to break out that Lewis Grizzard joke about what the Braves and Michael Jackson have in common
smootness
08-22-2015, 12:25 PM
If Bethancourt can hit .250 /.320 obp with some pop and throw out runners at a high clip, I'll be happy
He won't ever sniff an .070 isoOBP. I'm hoping he can hit around .270 with an OBP slightly over .300. If he can do that and slug close to .450 with his defense, that's a really good piece.
msstate7
08-22-2015, 12:35 PM
He won't ever sniff an .070 isoOBP. I'm hoping he can hit around .270 with an OBP slightly over .300. If he can do that and slug close to .450 with his defense, that's a really good piece.
Yeah, I was planning on a lot of errors and hbp. Didn't think those numbers out too carefully haha
BoomBoom
08-24-2015, 09:02 PM
Braves call up Bethancourt. guess they plan on keeping him.
Gomes may have earned us a decent prospect tonight. he's played well for a week or two, and has had a great night. probably the best RH bat available right now.
msstate7
08-24-2015, 09:04 PM
Braves call up Bethancourt. guess they plan on keeping him.
Gomes may have earned us a decent prospect tonight. he's played well for a week or two, and has had a great night. probably the best RH bat available right now.
Nice to see Bethancourt and Teheran work well together.
Would love to move Gomes.
War Machine Dawg
08-24-2015, 11:00 PM
Since Fredi's extension, the Braves record is 10-21. The Braves have lost 20 of their last 22 road games. Extending fredi was the dumbest thing ever.
I'm a huge Fredi critic, but we also traded almost every player worth a damn right as we gave him the extension. Hard to blame him when we took most of the bullets out of his gun. I'd still like to see him gone, but this collapse has way more to do with a complete lack of MLB talent. We're a ****ing 4A team. And we got worse bringing up Bethancourt today.
msstate7
08-24-2015, 11:05 PM
I'm a huge Fredi critic, but we also traded almost every player worth a damn right as we gave him the extension. Hard to blame him when we took most of the bullets out of his gun. I'd still like to see him gone, but this collapse has way more to do with a complete lack of MLB talent. We're a ****ing 4A team. And we got worse bringing up Bethancourt today.
You must have forgotten that fredi sucks this time of year even with good teams.
War Machine Dawg
08-25-2015, 09:08 AM
You must have forgotten that fredi sucks this time of year even with good teams.
He's only had 2 real collapses prior to this season. And this year he's coaching a 4A team. I'm no Fredi fan, but you really can't objectively blame him for this year.
msstate7
08-25-2015, 09:29 AM
He's only had 2 real collapses prior to this season. And this year he's coaching a 4A team. I'm no Fredi fan, but you really can't objectively blame him for this year.
That's fair. I still think it was a ridiculous move to resign him. Even if you throw out this year's debacle, fredi has led us to 2 collapses out of 4 years. Both those collapses were with at worst decent teams.
War Machine Dawg
08-25-2015, 10:48 AM
That's fair. I still think it was a ridiculous move to resign him. Even if you throw out this year's debacle, fredi has led us to 2 collapses out of 4 years. Both those collapses were with at worst decent teams.
I agree. And look, it was only a 1-year extension. It's not like we couldn't can him at the end of the season anyway. I personally hope we do. Fredi has earned the criticism based on past performance, for sure. I just find it hard to blame him when we're putting a team on the field every night that has maybe 2-3 players a majority of the other 29 teams in MLB would like to have. Combine that with a young rotation that's struggling, you get what we're seeing since July.
msstate7
08-25-2015, 10:53 AM
I agree. And look, it was only a 1-year extension. It's not like we couldn't can him at the end of the season anyway. I personally hope we do. Fredi has earned the criticism based on past performance, for sure. I just find it hard to blame him when we're putting a team on the field every night that has maybe 2-3 players a majority of the other 29 teams in MLB would like to have. Combine that with a young rotation that's struggling, you get what we're seeing since July.
Yep. Just think we haven't gotten to the month where fredi really blows. Hopefully he holds serve and we get a top 5 pick. I'm sure this will be the year that fredi turns it up a notch and we move out of top 10
War Machine Dawg
08-25-2015, 11:03 AM
Yep. Just think we haven't gotten to the month where fredi really blows. Hopefully he holds serve and we get a top 5 pick. I'm sure this will be the year that fredi turns it up a notch and we move out of top 10
I don't see it happening. Again, we just don't have the talent. Freddie & Markakis are the only 2 players that I'm certain could play every day for a majority of MLB teams. Maybe Simba, but his bat isn't very good. He just happens to be a freak defensively, maybe one of the best defensive players of all time. After them, we've pretty much got garbage. I like Pierzynski, but he's ancient. Maybin has had a nice season, but he's still been mostly a bust in his career. Peterson - lmao. Gomes is old. Whoever else we stick in LF sucks. Adonis Garcia has looked decent at 3B, but he isn't really considered a top prospect. Bethancourt looks like a massive bust.
All that said, it would definitely be our luck to get hot and go on a tear in September, keeping us from getting a high draft pick. Crazier things have happened.
msstate7
09-03-2015, 10:00 PM
ESPN Stats & Info @ESPNStatsInfo 2m2 minutes ago
The Braves are 12-38 over their last 50 games
Team?s worst 50-game stretch since it went 11-39 at the end of the 1935 season
War Machine Dawg
09-03-2015, 10:21 PM
Glad I stopped watching weeks ago. There is no talent on this team. And the pitching prospects have all been hot garbage. Now you see why trading MLB players for prospects doesn't work out too well most of the time.
msstate7
09-09-2015, 08:48 PM
Bad news...
Banuelos to see dr Andrews
Good news...
Olivera is starting to look like a good hitter with good power
Oh and the nats pretty much got eliminated tonight haha
dawgs
09-09-2015, 09:16 PM
Glad I stopped watching weeks ago. There is no talent on this team. And the pitching prospects have all been hot garbage. Now you see why trading MLB players for prospects doesn't work out too well most of the time.
it's way way way too soon to say all that. also, when you have MLB talent that's nearing free agency and you either (1) don't want to get roped into paying them long term big bucks or (2) know they aren't seriously considering resigning with your squad, it's best to see what kinda prospects you can pull. in the meantime, if those players aren't helping you make the playoffs, then you are better off sucking really really bad so you get a better draft pick, which usually means trading those MLB players nearing free agency to save money for a future roster that's actually going to win while simultaneously enhancing your draft picks which hopefully eventually enhances your MLB roster.
dawgs
09-09-2015, 09:21 PM
Oh and the nats pretty much got eliminated tonight haha
just pathetic all around. the nats ****ed up with that paps trade and pretty much killed any future storen had with the club. would have been much much smarter to go get a couple of MR guys from fringe prospects and system depth than trade for paps. they've never truly let storen rebound from 2012 and given what he was doing this season prior to the paps deal, he didn't deserve what they did to him. i also think it had a negative effect on the lockerroom to see management undercut one of the guys like that. since that paps deal, the nats have one of the worst records in baseball. that said, harper is the only guy on the team that hasn't spent a substantial chunk of the playing like he'd rather be doing any except playing baseball.
msstate7
09-09-2015, 09:26 PM
just pathetic all around. the nats ****ed up with that paps trade and pretty much killed any future storen had with the club. would have been much much smarter to go get a couple of MR guys from fringe prospects and system depth than trade for paps. they've never truly let storen rebound from 2012 and given what he was doing this season prior to the paps deal, he didn't deserve what they did to him. i also think it had a negative effect on the lockerroom to see management undercut one of the guys like that. since that paps deal, the nats have one of the worst records in baseball. that said, harper is the only guy on the team that hasn't spent a substantial chunk of the playing like he'd rather be doing any except playing baseball.
Harper has been amazing.
Hey at least you guys are still on life support. My Braves have been buried for almost 2 months. I'd love to at least have a shot at a miracle run. Still though you guys didn't sign Scherzer to have a shot at the playoffs down the stretch
dawgs
09-09-2015, 09:35 PM
Harper has been amazing.
Hey at least you guys are still on life support. My Braves have been buried for almost 2 months. I'd love to at least have a shot at a miracle run. Still though you guys didn't sign Scherzer to have a shot at the playoffs down the stretch
i think a roster shake up going into next season will be nice to change up the dynamic. desmond and zimmermann are almost assuredly gone. i would be surprised if storen isn't traded. no idea what happens with span, i would've thought there's a decent chance he returns on the club option, but depends on the hip recovery. the bullpen needs revamping.
msstate7
09-09-2015, 09:38 PM
i think a roster shake up going into next season will be nice to change up the dynamic. desmond and zimmermann are almost assuredly gone. i would be surprised if storen isn't traded. no idea what happens with span, i would've thought there's a decent chance he returns on the club option, but depends on the hip recovery. the bullpen needs revamping.
Desmond screwed himself.
I'd let span walk and go with with Harper, werth, and Taylor.
dawgs
09-09-2015, 11:13 PM
Problem with letting span walk is he's the only true lead off guy and still a pretty good one and his deal is extremely reasonable. Given werth, Harper, and span tend to get banged up, keeping span, and then using taylor as a 4th OF to rotate in and keep guys fresh and ready to fill in for extended period at any of the 3 spots if needed, then the CF job is his full time in 2017 after span becomes a FA. That's what I would do. Span unquestionably makes the lineup better.
Really Clark?
09-10-2015, 08:40 PM
Austin Riley was named player of the year for Danville.
msstate7
09-11-2015, 10:20 PM
We were 43-43 four games before the AS break. We're now 56-86. That's 13-43. Wow...
War Machine Dawg
09-12-2015, 01:17 AM
Atlanta has a baseball team?***
That's what happens when you trade away almost every MLB caliber player on the roster and field a team of prospects. If you think this year is bad, wait until next year. No way we spend any cash in free agency to put a competitive club on the field. It's going to be all prospects from Opening Day and will get ugly in a hurry.
The only bright spot is we might have a new manager. Read an article from Sporting News a couple of days ago alleging that Fredi has lost the clubhouse. If that's true, Hart and Coppy have to pull the plug. You can't let that type of situation fester for a whole year.
dawgs
09-12-2015, 01:53 AM
Atlanta has a baseball team?***
That's what happens when you trade away almost every MLB caliber player on the roster and field a team of prospects. If you think this year is bad, wait until next year. No way we spend any cash in free agency to put a competitive club on the field. It's going to be all prospects from Opening Day and will get ugly in a hurry.
The only bright spot is we might have a new manager. Read an article from Sporting News a couple of days ago alleging that Fredi has lost the clubhouse. If that's true, Hart and Coppy have to pull the plug. You can't let that type of situation fester for a whole year.
you don't know how you have to rebuild a team.
signed, a nationals fan
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