MLB Players who got a bad rap

[Will James]

Just a random topic for the week to get away from Mullenspeth.

My guy is JD Drew. He gets bashed a lot but the guy was pretty damn good. Career .384 on-base percentage, 14% BB rate. Not a hall of famer or anything but he was a really solid player.

5th best hitter in the league with the Braves in 2004.

27th in wOBA of qualified hitters from 00-10. Pretty equal to Miguel Cabrera's 2000s

[Dawg61]

Palmeiro. He has one failed test and the world has tossed him in the trash.

[bully99]

I was gonna say Palmeiro. People who know him say that drug taint pretty much destroyed his life. He's not even the same person since that incident or scandal.

[ShotgunDawg]

John Lackey - Guy has averaged 195 innings per year for the past 10 years. Has a career 1.3 WHIP that would be lower if it wasn't for his awful 2011 season. Career 4.05 ERA that would be below 4.00 if it wasn't for a horrible 2011. Career 2.7 walks/9 and 7.7 K/9.

Overall, he is a solid 3rd starter on a championship level team that gets a bad rap because of his shitty demeanor, divorce, and horrible season that cost Francona his job.

[Dawg61]

Lackey shut down my Giants in game 7 for the Angels to win the WS. He is great in big games.

[messageboardsuperhero]

My guy doesn't necessarily have a bad rap, but Shin-Soo Choo was arguably the best leadoff hitter in baseball this past season and doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves. Choo got on base damn near every day, and he has some serious pop in his bat for a leadoff guy.

It's a travesty that Choo didn't make the All-Star team.

[ShotgunDawg]

My guy doesn't necessarily have a bad rap, but Shin-Soo Choo was arguably the best leadoff hitter in baseball this past season and doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves. Choo got on base damn near every day, and he has some serious pop in his bat for a leadoff guy.

It's a travesty that Choo didn't make the All-Star team.

This is true

[Will James]

My guy doesn't necessarily have a bad rap, but Shin-Soo Choo was arguably the best leadoff hitter in baseball this past season and doesn't get nearly the recognition he deserves. Choo got on base damn near every day, and he has some serious pop in his bat for a leadoff guy.

It's a travesty that Choo didn't make the All-Star team.

100% agreed. Will be more valuable when moved out of CF.

Fantasy stud.

[ShotgunDawg]

Stephen Drew - Has had a few bad offensive years, but typically hits .250-.270 with 12-15 HRs and plays plus plus defense. Has a higher career OPS than Elvis Andrus and plays equal defense; doesn't steal as many bases though.

However, since he can't get a hit to save his life right now in the World Series, everyone thinks he sucks. However, you can make a strong argument that he is better than or equal to Elvis Andrus, who is considered one of the best SS in baseball.

[Will James]

Zobrist is another under valued asset. Can play anywhere on the field and get on base with the best of em

[ShotgunDawg]

100% agreed. Will be more valuable when moved out of CF.

Fantasy stud.

WHA??? Not sure how fantasy baseball works, but, in real baseball, there isn't a player on the planet that gains value by moving out of CF unless he moves to SS.

[Dawg61]

Yea he got run off by Cleveland after he got a DUI.

[Will James]

WHA??? Not sure how fantasy baseball works, but, in real baseball, there isn't a player on the planet that gains value by moving out of CF unless he moves to SS.

Let me rephrase. His D is not good at all in CF which hurts the Reds. When they get another CF (Hamilton) and allow him to move to a corner OF spot his value will be better because he is less of a defensive liability for the team.

[ShotgunDawg]

Let me rephrase. His D is not good at all in CF which hurts the Reds. When they get another CF (Hamilton) and allow him to move to a corner OF spot his value will be better because he is less of a defensive liability for the team.

You don't understand the value of baseball players then. The Reds may be a better team if they did that, but Choo's value wouldn't be greater; it would drop. In baseball, players that play C, SS, or CF (premium positions) don't have to hit as much because defense is a higher priority. Therefore, the most expensive players in baseball are players that can hit and play a premium position, which Choo currently does.

If Choo is moved to RF or LF, where the average player hits for a higher average and more power than the average CF, Choo's value will drop because his offensive production will no longer be an outlier among his peers at that position. (More easily replaceable.)

So long as Choo's defense is passable in CF, his value is higher. Because the Reds then have the option of going to get an offensive weapon, at a cheaper price, that plays RF or LF. If Choo moves to RF or LF, they don't have that option. The Reds shouldn't move Choo unless they think he can no longer play CF, which lowers his value, or they believe that Billy Hamiton's offensive production will be greater than that of replacement player they could find to play RF or LF.

It's all about supply and demand. There are more players that can play defense than can hit, and there are even less players that can hit and play defense. Therefore, players that can hit and play defense are the rarest and thus the most valuable.

[Will James]

So long as Choo's defense is passable in CF

It's not. And CF and LF both averaged a 99 wRC+ this year in MLB. RF was at 105 wRC+. Moving him to left is moving to an equal offensive output position but will better hide his defensive flaws.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...ter=&players=0

Of qualified CF Choo was the worst fielder, and it wasn't even close. He will be more valuable for the Reds in LF because he won't cost them as much defensively. In a lot of cases you are right about the CF/corner OF value but in Choo's case his D is so bad that he is more valuable in LF.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Zobrist is another under valued asset. Can play anywhere on the field and get on base with the best of em

Zobrist is the ultimate TB Ray, in a good way. I bet Maddon would clone about 20 Zobrists if he could, then maybe give a few to Billy Beane.

[ShotgunDawg]

It's not. And CF and LF both averaged a 99 wRC+ this year in MLB. RF was at 105 wRC+. Moving him to left is moving to an equal offensive output position but will better hide his defensive flaws.

Thats because LF is platooned more than any other position. Therefore the league norms will drop. A players value doesn't go up when he is moved to an easier position to play. It's logic

Plus team's save money on left fielders because there are plenty of adequate ones. The best athletes and most expensive athletes in baseball play CF, SS, P, or C. Your value drops as you move away from the center of the field.

i.e. - If Miguel Cabrera was a SS or CF, he would be paid more and his value would go up.

[Original48]

Willie McGee. He was talented..but overshadowed by his grotesque appearance.

[bully99]

Stop it. Please. You are ruining baseball for all of us old folks with all these stats. I'm sick of wars and whips and ops and all this other stat crap. Baseball has been overwhelmed by stat nerds. No offense will james ...real or imaginary.

[Will James]

Thats because LF is platooned more than any other position. Therefore the league norms will drop. A players value doesn't go up when he is moved to an easier position to play. It's logic

It does when his D is that much of a liability.