Thoughts moving forward...

[Barking 13]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always.... Then there's the goofy assed play calls. You've been running the ball this drive 4 yds a carry, get to the 20 and it's 3rd and 1 or 2 and you want to get cute and try to throw a pass. Now it's 4th and 2 and your kicker can't hit the FG.. Doesn't matter, by now you're down 14 anyway...

[msstate7]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always....

Sacking Met, but grabbing the facemask on lsu's first drive. That was a huge penalty...

[smootness]

After all, it would be "little brother" of me not to expect 7 wins from this talent, right?

I think if we're going to have this discussion, we need to truly figure out where the issues are. We talk about how much talent this team has, but let's look at it objectively. I'm going to use Scout's rankings (I know some may have an issue with them, but it seems as good as any to pinpoint basically where we are now).

The classes contributing to this year, by and large, are 2010-2012, and the majority of the upperclassmen are from the 2010 and 2011 classes right now. We do have some left from the very good 2009 class, but there are only 5 still on the roster (Russell, Perkins, Skinner, Gabe Jackson, and Whitley); some talent, but that class is not contributing in a major way to our team anymore.

The 2010 class was ranked 38th in the country, behind 11 current SEC programs. The highest rated guys from that class were Wells, Damien Robinson, and Eulls; Wells is legit, the other two haven't lived up to their billing. The 2011 class was ranked 45th, behind 10 current SEC programs. The highest rated players from that class were Arrington and Morrow; they haven't yet contributed a whole lot.

Those two classes are where the majority of our difference-makers should be coming from, and there just wasn't much there. The 2012 class was ranked 18th, behind 6 current SEC programs, and we're already starting to see a lot of contribution from that class; and we're seeing some from 2013 already as well (Jones, Wilson, Ross).

I think Mullen had an issue transitioning in his recruiting; I think he had to build up some relationships while Nutt had already established his inside the state, and I think he had to come to the realization that recruiting at State is different than at UF. At UF, players line up to play there, and you choose who you want. At State, you have to go get anybody you want. He seems to have figured it out to some degree and we are now seeing consistently good classes. We still need to improve in order to really take the next step, but we are now bringing in good enough talent to compete in the SEC. In 2010 and 2011, we didn't.

Well, I think those classes are still holding us back. Do we truly have the talent to expect 7 wins or more in the SEC? I don't know about that.

Ultimately everything comes back to the head coach, but as I said, I think we have made serious strides in correcting some of the initial recruiting flaws, and we're no longer having to stockpile classes with reaches. I'm not saying this should mean that we have to keep Mullen, I'm just saying that it's something to think about.

We have basically only had Russell at QB as a guy who could really go out there and start the last couple of years, and he doesn't fit what Mullen wants to do. Personally, I think we should see what we become when Dak takes over and we get QBs who truly fit the system coming in consistently, and when the last couple of classes develop into our upperclassmen and leaders. I think we'll see a different team.

[FFF]

Well for the lesser teams to win, they need help. OM and vandy can play hard they can, but if lsu plays well and Georgia's healthy it wouldn't matter. I agree we need to play harder at times, but to say that's why we lose to bama, lsu, etc isn't true. We haven't got a good team on their off day. For whatever reason everyone plays like it's the Super Bowl against us

They get that help because they play with tremendous intensity an take advantage of the "arbitrage" opportunities they get. The good teams mess up, too, but OM an vandy punished them for their screwups... We tend to give the ball right back with no harm done. You get free opportunities, you better be ready to haul ass and take advantage. We don't do that well at all.

Then defensive brain farts lead to scores which gives the opponent even more confidence.

It's the old saying "kick em while they are down." You put a different level of pressure on a team when you can capitalize on their mistakes. Thats what ole miss did on Saturday that we didn't and you see the difference in the results.

[FlabLoser]

I think the frustration lies within the fact we are a better team (or has the potential to be) than what is shown.... and it's never just one thing.. never has been. It always seems to be one little key ingredient that is missing. Always one step from making or breaking the big play. You know, like being in an opposing QB's face and he throws a 40 yd completion for a TD, instead of a sack. Having a wide open receiver in the end zone and he drops the ball. Fumbling out of the end zone. Uncalled for personal fouls. 3rd & 2 and someone jumps the snap. DB falls down on a big pass play, missing a 25 yd field goal, etc. on and on... always.... Then there's the goofy assed play calls. You've been running the ball this drive 4 yds a carry, get to the 20 and it's 3rd and 1 or 2 and you want to get cute and try to throw a pass. Now it's 4th and 2 and your kicker can't hit the FG.. Doesn't matter, by now you're down 14 anyway...

1980-something. The wind blows back a would-be game-winning FG in the Egg Bowl.

1991 @ Bama, down 13-7, we have 1st & goal from Bama 1 yard line at the end of the game. We jump offsides, then throw an interception on the next play. Bama finished that season 11-1. We finished 7-5.

1992 @ Ole Miss. We need a TD to come back. End of the game, we get to run like 12 plays inside the Ole Miss's 10 yard line, some inside the 5 yard line, and we come up with nothing. Ole Miss wins.

1997 Ole Miss in Starkville. End of the game, Ole Miss scores a TD to come within 1, goes for 2, makes it. Ole Miss wins.

1998 SEC Championship game. We have a 4th quarter lead on the national champs. Blow coverage on 1 play, and Tennessee scores. UT wins. Although it was certainly nice just to be in that game.

2002 @ Oregon. Kevin Fant is suspended less than 24 hours before the season opening kickoff.

2009 LSU in Starkville. End of the game. Need a TD and have a few plays inside the 5 yard line. Tyson Lee stopped at the goal then gets a pass to an open receiver batted down in the endzone. LSU wins.

2010 Cam Newton's Auburn in Starkville. Need a TD at the end, and Berry drops a wide open pass at the 5 yard line. Auburn wins. We could have avenged Camgate and spoiled their championship season.

2010 a highly ranked Arkansas in Starkville. Ballard fumbled a would-be winning TD through the endzone. Arkansas wins in double OT.



Happy Monday.

[DanDority]

Well, since Coach likes to label anybody that is tired of watching doormats pass us by as "Little brother", I've decided that those of us that don't accept status quo can have a different mindset going forward.

First of all, I see "little brother" as someone who knows his role and can accept when his program is stagnant or going in reverse. Instead of fighting it or demanding progress, "little brother" shuts up and says "woe is me, we are MSU we shouldn't demand anything more". So sorry coach, but little brother in this case is you that accepts his role. Keep in mind, those of us pissed off, are not pissed off ONLY because Ole miss beat LSU....it is because 4 teams on our level or worse in the sec accomplished something we can't yesterday. And don't give me that horseshit about something we did 3-4 years ago. 3-4 years is a decade in the sEC.

Also, "little brother" would demand less and therefore expect less. Well, I'm tired of low expectations. Mizzou, Tennessee, Vandy, and ole miss, all expected to win yesterday against better teams, so that's what I'm expecting going forward. No more griping about what we haven't done, instead start demanding we improve too.

I am now expecting us to beat One of the following:

South Carolina
A&M
Alabama

And I am demanding we win the following:

Kentucky
Arkansas
Ole miss

Anything below 4 more wins and I want a coaching change. Because we will be stagnant and/or moving downhill.

What some of you don't realize is that sitting still is moving backwards in this conference. Yesterday showed that perennial doormats are improving in this conference, so being ok with 6 wins is no longer going to cut it, unless we want to be dead last in the conference. As of today, we are just above Arkansas and Kentucky. We will have a chance to improve drastically by accomplishing the goals I listed above. Anything less is unacceptable, because everyone is proving that winning in this league is not as hard as we act like it is. And gone are the days of marking LSU, Bama, and A&M a loss. That's a "little brother" mentality. We can compete just like everyone else in this league so it's time we start expecting and demanding it.

This is not a thread to start a debate, just a thread to those others that are tired of the product we are putting on the field. We can have higher expectations. So keep cheering your asses off, and let's not complain anymore about things that happened in the past, and let's hope that the team and coach can accomplish 7 wins. I don't think that is expecting too much, and anybody that does must have a little brother mentality.

AMEN!AMEN!AMEN!

[Barking 13]

1980-something. The wind blows back a would-be game-winning FG in the Egg Bowl.

1991 @ Bama, down 13-7, we have 1st & goal from Bama 1 yard line at the end of the game. We jump offsides, then throw an interception on the next play. Bama finished that season 11-1. We finished 7-5.

1992 @ Ole Miss. We need a TD to come back. End of the game, we get to run like 12 plays inside the Ole Miss's 10 yard line, some inside the 5 yard line, and we come up with nothing. Ole Miss wins.

1997 Ole Miss in Starkville. End of the game, Ole Miss scores a TD to come within 1, goes for 2, makes it. Ole Miss wins.

1998 SEC Championship game. We have a 4th quarter lead on the national champs. Blow coverage on 1 play, and Tennessee scores. UT wins. Although it was certainly nice just to be in that game.

2002 @ Oregon. Kevin Fant is suspended less than 24 hours before the season opening kickoff.

2009 LSU in Starkville. End of the game. Need a TD and have a few plays inside the 5 yard line. Tyson Lee stopped at the goal then gets a pass to an open receiver batted down in the endzone. LSU wins.

2010 Cam Newton's Auburn in Starkville. Need a TD at the end, and Berry drops a wide open pass at the 5 yard line. Auburn wins. We could have avenged Camgate and spoiled their championship season.

2010 a highly ranked Arkansas in Starkville. Ballard fumbled a would-be winning TD through the endzone. Arkansas wins in double OT.



Happy Monday.

Thanks Flab.. Those are some I'm talking about, but my CRS disease forbids the dates... wasn't that Artie Cosby on the blowback or the one that hit the upright and bounced back?

[Bubb Rubb]

Yep.

And I want to restate for those that can't seem to understand. If Shotgun and Coach and others aren't ready to pull he trigger on Dan even if we win 4-5 games is year...fine. I respect your opinion. But don't be labeling those of us that actually think the program can do better, and that demand more from our coach than "we are happy to be 3-3", as "Little brother mentality" or "Closet Bears". Not only is that completely idiotic and does it sound ghey...it's also the furthest thing from the truth.

We just want to see our program progress. And it doesn't have to be wins and losses....it can be effort and on field coaching. If those don't improve and we can't beat a team better than Kentucky or Arkansas, IMO we should be seeking a replacement.

I get the frustration. I'm frustrated too. I also think there's too much emotion. What Ole Miss did on Saturday has nothing to do with US. You can say it did, but that's emotion. It's all about jealousy over the fact that Ole Miss (and to a lesser extent Vandy, Auburn, Tennessee, and Missouri) did what we haven't been able to do. Personally, I think it's all revisionist history. We bat down one pass on that last drive against Auburn, or we upset one team down the road this season, and we aren't having any of these conversations. There's too much emotion week to week over how we played, or who we played at QB, or even more embarrassingly, what Ole Miss did. Bottom line is none of that stuff matters. We will line up Thursday night and try to get our 4th win. And then we'll line up against USCe and try to get our fifth win. If we don't win games, the problem will take care of itself. But all of this calling for Dan's head, and anointing Hud, is embarrassing. We all made fun of Auburn when their AD met secretly with Petrino while they had a coach....but so many of us are wanting the same thing. We have a coach, he's had some success (and yes, I consider his wins early on signature wins), and he's done something here that has never been done before. I think it's time we stop eating our own and start supporting our football program, whomever the coach, and whomever the quarterback is. If he doesn't do the job, it will be addressed in the offseason. If Hud comes in, I'll be his biggest supporter. But for now, everyone just needs to freaking relax and stop getting their panties in a bunch because of what Ole Miss did on Saturday. That is still the same team that needed an answered prayer to beat Vandy.

[slickdawg]

I get the frustration. I'm frustrated too. I also think there's too much emotion. What Ole Miss did on Saturday has nothing to do with US. You can say it did, but that's emotion. It's all about jealousy over the fact that Ole Miss (and to a lesser extent Vandy, Auburn, Tennessee, and Missouri) did what we haven't been able to do. Personally, I think it's all revisionist history. We bat down one pass on that last drive against Auburn, or we upset one team down the road this season, and we aren't having any of these conversations. There's too much emotion week to week over how we played, or who we played at QB, or even more embarrassingly, what Ole Miss did. Bottom line is none of that stuff matters. We will line up Thursday night and try to get our 4th win. And then we'll line up against USCe and try to get our fifth win. If we don't win games, the problem will take care of itself. But all of this calling for Dan's head, and anointing Hud, is embarrassing. We all made fun of Auburn when their AD met secretly with Petrino while they had a coach....but so many of us are wanting the same thing. We have a coach, he's had some success (and yes, I consider his wins early on signature wins), and he's done something here that has never been done before. I think it's time we stop eating our own and start supporting our football program, whomever the coach, and whomever the quarterback is. If he doesn't do the job, it will be addressed in the offseason. If Hud comes in, I'll be his biggest supporter. But for now, everyone just needs to freaking relax and stop getting their panties in a bunch because of what Ole Miss did on Saturday. That is still the same team that needed an answered prayer to beat Vandy.

Well said my brother.