MSU defense

[Coach007]

This idea is absolutely ludicrous. If a 3-4 was easier to recruit for than the most common defense in college football, then you'd see more than a handful of teams running it.

Is it? Need another opinion?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...layton-mailbag

In 1990, 18 of the NFL's 28 teams were in the 3-4. By 1994, only five teams were using the 3-4, and the number dropped to four by 1995.

Now....

Six of the seven head-coaching hires this offseason have defensive backgrounds. Defensive coordinator Vic Fangio could move the Chicago Bears from a 4-3 to a 3-4, while coach Rex Ryan in Buffalo and defensive coordinator Wade Phillips in Denver are expected to do the same.

That would bring the number of 3-4 defenses in 2015 to 17, the most since 1990.

http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/post...hing-on-in-b1g

After spreading through the NFL and much of college football, odd defenses -- with three down linemen instead of four -- will be more visible in the Big Ten this season. Three Big Ten teams -- Wisconsin, Maryland and Indiana

Point is it's spreading due to 2 factors.

1- Better vs the spread
2- Easier to recruit for.

[Coach007]

I still can't believe you're okay with being 110th in total defense. There is no way you were ever a coach.

Where did I say I'm ok with it? I'm just realistic about it. Major injuries to our secondary before the season began. Major change in our base defense. A lot of younger guys who had RS and learned a 4-3. It's reality of the situation.

There is a reason why teams are switching to the 3-4. It's because offenses are spreading them out. Get ahead of the curve, bite the bullet now, learn the system. If he doesn't produce , hire the next guy. But 1 year making a major change like this isn't representative of what will be.

[Really Clark?]

Mullen admitted after we played A&M he got out of the way on the defensive side of the ball. He said this in his press conference and also said he gave Brian Johnson the reins on calling offensive plays. So yea, he was knee deep in what goes on, on that side of the ball. I personally think that's why we have so much turn over on defense. You've got to hire coaches and let them coach, if not then they are fighting an almost impossible task of winning over the players. The players know who runs things and if its not the guy with the title, he's in a tough spot to be successful IMO.

Arkansas. Maybe Mullen should took back the reigns***

[thf24]

Is it? Need another opinion?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...layton-mailbag



Now....


http://www.espn.com/blog/bigten/post...hing-on-in-b1g




Point is it's spreading due to 2 factors.

1- Better vs the spread
2- Easier to recruit for.

It does seem a few more are giving it a try in recent years, but I still doubt you could even find 10 P5 teams running a true 2-gap 3-4 like we are trying to. I simply don't buy it being easier to recruit for... unless you consider bringing in a 5 star NT and two Leo Lewis's every single year "easy."

[I seen it dawg]

Just straight shitbird

[Todd4State]

It does seem a few more are giving it a try in recent years, but I still doubt you could even find 10 P5 teams running a true 2-gap 3-4 like we are trying to. I simply don't buy it being easier to recruit for... unless you consider bringing in a 5 star NT and two Leo Lewis's every single year "easy."

That's the thing there are a lot of variations of 3-4's out there and it might be that we are trying to use one that doesn't suit us. If people like Appalachain State are able to run a version of the 3-4 and have success with it there is no reason we can't run a version that fits our personnel.

[CadaverDawg]

You don't pay a guy $650k for another year when all he did was take a 54th (?) ranked D and turn it into 108th (?). In one off-season with Sirmon we quit tackling, quit covering, quit pressuring, quit run defense, and our veteran 4 star players became 2 star rookies. You don't keep that and pay it over half a mil for another year. You just don't. Letting those guys just pick a man & play backyard ball would have led to better defense this year. He's making us worse, and even worse...he's making us Charmin soft. Can't have that in this league, and MSU has always been physical...he has stolen our identity

[Coach007]

You don't pay a guy $650k for another year when all he did was take a 54th (?) ranked D and turn it into 108th (?). In one off-season with Sirmon we quit tackling, quit covering, quit pressuring, quit run defense, and our veteran 4 star players became 2 star rookies. You don't keep that and pay it over half a mil for another year. You just don't. Letting those guys just pick a man & play backyard ball would have led to better defense this year. He's making us worse, and even worse...he's making us Charmin soft. Can't have that in this league, and MSU has always been physical...he has stolen our identity

We didn't quit tackling, we didn't quit covering. We went into a new base defense that we needed a couple of better players at certain positions and we lost 2 starters in the secondary. This isn't as hard as you are making it out to be.

It does seem a few more are giving it a try in recent years, but I still doubt you could even find 10 P5 teams running a true 2-gap 3-4 like we are trying to. I simply don't buy it being easier to recruit for... unless you consider bringing in a 5 star NT and two Leo Lewis's every single year "easy."

16 teams run a 3-4 and 26 run a 4-3 base defense. The other 22 teams run multiple fronts that include 3-4.

[CadaverDawg]

We didn't quit tackling, we didn't quit covering. We went into a new base defense that we needed a couple of better players at certain positions and we lost 2 starters in the secondary. This isn't as hard as you are making it out to be.




16 teams run a 3-4 and 26 run a 4-3 base defense. The other 22 teams run multiple fronts that include 3-4.

I disagree. I could live with poor secondary play bc we knew that was a weakness...but the shitty tackling, no pressure on the QB, and regression among Richie, Gerri and some of our veterans, along with just an overall lack of toughness or motivation has ZERO to do with scheme. That is something that started with the arrival of Sirmon. You're making excuses

[thf24]

16 teams run a 3-4 and 26 run a 4-3 base defense. The other 22 teams run multiple fronts that include 3-4.

How many of those 16 actually run a true 2-gap 3-4 defense and how many only line up in a 3-4 front?

[Johnson85]

This is it. In the end points allowed is the only defensive stat that really counts.

I don't think that's right.
There's a difference between a defense that causes five three-n-outs and gives up 5 quick touchdown drives versus a defense that causes two turnovers on the other team's side of the field, three three-n-outs and five touchdowns, versus a defense that plays bend and eventually breaks and gets two stops around midfield and gives up five touchdowns on long, clock-eating drives.

As efficient as offenses have gotten in the NCAA, I'm surprised more teams haven't gone to a break don't bend philosophy, where they take a lot of risks and either get negative plays and/or turnovers to get the ball back quickly, or go ahead and give up quick drives. Pair that with a high powered offense, and it seems like you'd wear out a lot of teams, although occasionally get your doors blown off when you have atypical results early in a game.

[Cooterpoot]

Mullen didn't tie the DC hands, we didn't have many options on what we could do on the backend. And as far as philosophy, it's a vast majority of DC that run bend don't break philosophy. College and pro. That is by far the most prevalent defensive philosophy in football today.

Mullen has played with the huge cushions since day one. That's what I mean by tying their hands. Diaz, Collins, Sirmon all had different approaches but that damn huge cushion is Dan. It's too much. I understand the concept but we play too far off. Dallas runs a similar approach, but the cushion isn't that big.

[Coach007]

I don't think that's right.
There's a difference between a defense that causes five three-n-outs and gives up 5 quick touchdown drives versus a defense that causes two turnovers on the other team's side of the field, three three-n-outs and five touchdowns, versus a defense that plays bend and eventually breaks and gets two stops around midfield and gives up five touchdowns on long, clock-eating drives.

As efficient as offenses have gotten in the NCAA, I'm surprised more teams haven't gone to a break don't bend philosophy, where they take a lot of risks and either get negative plays and/or turnovers to get the ball back quickly, or go ahead and give up quick drives. Pair that with a high powered offense, and it seems like you'd wear out a lot of teams, although occasionally get your doors blown off when you have atypical results early in a game.

Correct. The fast tempo spreads have made the defenses change. That's why the redzone is huge for us. Short field, less space for the offense that thrives in space.

[Really Clark?]

Mullen has played with the huge cushions since day one. That's what I mean by tying their hands. Diaz, Collins, Sirmon all had different approaches but that damn huge cushion is Dan. It's too much. I understand the concept but we play too far off. Dallas runs a similar approach, but the cushion isn't that big.

I disagree that it's all a Mullen thing but leaving that aside, from 2010-2015 we have been Top 36 or better nationally in scoring defense every year. We have had some issues but at the end of the day, our scoring defenses have been good to very good on average. Why complaining if that's the case over Mullen's history?

[Cooterpoot]

What are the scoring defense numbers in conference only?

[DudyDawg]

Fire peter sirmon. Today.

[Coach007]

Fire peter sirmon. Today.

No

[DudyDawg]

No

110 out of 128

[JoseBrown]

Fire peter sirmon. Today.

Would if I could.

[Coach007]

110 out of 128

New base system, needed a few players for that, he went and got them here. key injuries to the secondary. He gets another year to fully implement his system.

We will be fine next season and join the modern world having to defend the spread.