MSU defense

[TUSK]

I hate you.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HoopsDawg again.

You gotta make that your sig....

[Todd4State]

Do we really have Dan apologists suggesting that having a good defense doesn't matter?

[Coach007]

Do we really have Dan apologists suggesting that having a good defense doesn't matter?

A Dan Apologist... LOL!

Suggesting a good defense doesn't matter? HAHAHA!!!

WOW!

[Coach007]

The defense gave up yards in bunches the entire season. One of the many issues was simply not getting pressure on the qb. Just about every opposing qb this yr was successful. Can't say how many times the middle of the field was wide open and it never changed. You can call it scheme or whatever. I personally like a 4 3 front over a 3 4 but it's not my job

Yeah, we had assignment issues. Late to the ball.

[Coach007]

This is it. In the end points allowed is the only defensive stat that really counts.

No. That stat is the result of all others. You can simplify it to that .... but it's really an accurate statement.

[Todd4State]

A Dan Apologist... LOL!

Suggesting a good defense doesn't matter? HAHAHA!!!

WOW!

I'm not exactly sure what I am supposed to take from the OP when you post about our weak total defense rank followed up by our overall record?

[Todd4State]

This is it. In the end points allowed is the only defensive stat that really counts.

Exactly. Just like Alabama gave up 40 plus points to Ole Miss a couple of years ago because of turnovers on short fields. They didn't give up a ton of yards in the game but they gave up a lot of points. At the same time a team can have a lot of yards on offense and not score a lot of points because of turnovers, poor field position, having to settle for field goals because of poor red zone efficiency. Obviously it's ideal to give allow few yards AND few points.

Points allowed and turnovers are probably the two most important stats for a defense. I also am a fan of sacks although some people think that's an overrated stat sometimes.

[Coach007]

Cmon mane. You ain't counting Alcorn and Troy as proving we had offense are you? We scored against OSU - 21, Aub - 20, Bowling Green - 21, KY - only 28, USCe - 16, Bama - 7 (only gave up 20; that's when I knew the D was good), Ark - 17 in Reg; 24 in OT, OM - 10 in Reg; 17 in OT. Those aren't stellar offensive scores especially with the most brilliant offensive mind since Walsh at the helm.

So this season, we had 4 winnable games (3 losses that averaged out to be 1.33 points per game, while the other was in double OT) with the 110th defense in the nation.
2013/14 MSU was ranked 18th in the nation. That year, we went 7-6.


What I am saying is MSU doesn't have to have the top defense in the nation to be a 10 win team next year and compete for a play off spot. One side of the game helps the other. Our best season was with the 84th ranked defense in the country. That's not much improvement needed.

That 84th ranked team was 114th in passing yards allowed. This year, 120th with a difference of 10 yards more per game allowed. Rushing defense of that 84th ranked defense was number 44 in the country allowing 151 yards per game. This year 69th and gave up 278 per game. Those are very much in line with each other right? Even TFL was the same. Our TO margin was actually better.

So here are the improvements that need to take place that will put this defense in position to help win those games and how we are going to get it done.

1- Sacks. 84th team ranked 17th in the country, this year 72. Now that's only .8 less sacks per game, but important.
2- Redzone defense. 84th team was #1 in the nation.... This year 48th.
3- Passing yards allowed

How to get there

1- this defense allows for better blitzing packages. We were bad in these areas due to it being a new system. We gained a lot of experience and the lights are coming on. Even today showed that. BTW, Dallas switched to a 3 man front to shut down Stafford. Average 1 sack more per game, and it generally means another stop. At the same time, it means one more possession by your offense. In short, the defense will be in place and the playbook understood, therefore coverage should be understood. This year, we had a huge issue with DB injury forcing players that would not otherwise be on the field to step up. In order to increase the odds of sacks, our DBs have to play better. We had a lot of guys improve on defense as the year went on. Learning their assignments will give the DL and LBs that little extra time to make it to the QB.


2- Redzone... Huge bright spot for us this year. The 3-4, 10-20 yards out allows for another coverage guy and the field is short. inside the 10, a 4-3 can still be ran. Now, we had a horrible issue in the secondary. If that improves, so does the redzone defense. Redzone defense improvements mean less points score by the other team.


3- Passing yards allowed. Obvious, issue is the injuries. The MAIN problem was within the understanding of the 3-4 and assignments of the LBs mainly on the TEs. Powell for USA.. 8 catches, Everett caught the TD that tied the game. USC.. Hurst was the leading receiver and he's a TE (etc.. not even looking at Ark). Improve that area would be a huge improvement to our over all defense.

Looking at those positions...

DBs are tall guys with some size on them. I'm not sure we will have a starting DB under 6'. We have an early enrolled CB that's 6'3"! The shortest DB from JUCO is 6'1. At LB, we have the talent already there, they are just really young and it's a new system to learn.


Rather than looking at the 3-4 as you see it now, look at it as a 8-3. You have 8 guys standing up. It makes it more difficult to find the defensive guy that can be put in conflict. The more confusion you can throw at the QB prior to the snap, the harder it is for him to find that player. 3-4 does NOT concede angles like a 4-3 either. A 3-4 is easier to find players for.

We need to give the guy time to implement the defense.

[Really Clark?]

Coach, I'm a pretty positive poster for our program but you have some takes that make no sense. I may pump sunshine at times but you have to be pumping from some unknown star that's a dwarf or something. With the type of defensive philosophy we have and because of issues on the backend we gave up yards but you can do that and still have a good or very good scoring defense. We have done that for years and so have many good teams. At the end of the day there are 2 stats that matter the most, who had the most points and if you got a W or L for that game. I'm not saying we can't improve and we should be trying but scoring defense can be very good while giving up yards. That IS the generic philosophy of a bend don't break defense.

[GreenheadDawg]

Coach, I'm a pretty positive poster for our program but you have some takes that make no sense. I may pump sunshine at times but you have to be pumping from some unknown star that's a dwarf or something. With the type of defensive philosophy we have and because of issues on the backend we gave up yards but you can do that and still have a good or very good scoring defense. We have done that for years and so have many good teams. At the end of the day there are 2 stats that matter the most, who had the most points and if you got a W or L for that game. I'm not saying we can't improve and we should be trying but scoring defense can be very good while giving up yards. That IS the generic philosophy of a bend don't break defense.

I don't know why anybody responds to him anymore. Like Dr. Phil says from hangover, he's literally too stupid to insult. He can't be serious with some of the shit he says. Case and point, this thread.

[Bucky Dog]

I started a thread about this subject earlier. Do you all think it may have something to do with our strength and conditioning? Since Balis left our defense has gotten worse, and off the top of my head it seems we have had less and less push from our DLine each year, and the inability to fight off blocks. Now I know some of it is scheme and Sirmon put in a different system, but I have to believe with better S&C, we get faster and start getting to the QB more and applying pressure. Just my 2 cents.

[thf24]

A 3-4 is easier to find players for.

This idea is absolutely ludicrous. If a 3-4 was easier to recruit for than the most common defense in college football, then you'd see more than a handful of teams running it.

[Cooterpoot]

Almost every single problem with our offense, under Mullen, has been his refusal to play the best players. From Russell over Dak to pulling Fitz against S. AL. From Holloway over Aries to Perk over Jrob. Our game yesterday was all about playing our Srs. instead of hammering them before playing our lesser players.
The defense is the worst in school history, yet we're going to keep the worst DC in the country. We're going to give the 3-4 another year, which is a mistake too. Mullen refuses to admit he made a horrible hire and fix the problem. And Mullen needs to let his DC Use his own philosophy, instead of tying his hands with the huge cushions.
Our talent is down on both sides of the ball too. The jucos will help, but we still are missing a number of playmakers, especially at WR and corner. Next year should tell us a lot about where we are and what Mullen is willing to change.

[Commercecomet24]

Exactly. Just like Alabama gave up 40 plus points to Ole Miss a couple of years ago because of turnovers on short fields. They didn't give up a ton of yards in the game but they gave up a lot of points. At the same time a team can have a lot of yards on offense and not score a lot of points because of turnovers, poor field position, having to settle for field goals because of poor red zone efficiency. Obviously it's ideal to give allow few yards AND few points.

Points allowed and turnovers are probably the two most important stats for a defense. I also am a fan of sacks although some people think that's an overrated stat sometimes.

The Patriots have played this way for years. They give up a lot of yards between the 20's but very few points. Their red zone and third down defense is generally in the top 5 in the league. Making a baseball analogy, it's like a pitcher that gives up a lot of hits but never walks anyone and gives up very few extra base hits and only solo home runs and wins a lot of games. The kind of pitcher that makes managers pull their hair out but always seem to win. Jamie Moyer did it for years.

[Really Clark?]

Almost every single problem with our offense, under Mullen, has been his refusal to play the best players. From Russell over Dak to pulling Fitz against S. AL. From Holloway over Aries to Perk over Jrob. Our game yesterday was all about playing our Srs. instead of hammering them before playing our lesser players.
The defense is the worst in school history, yet we're going to keep the worst DC in the country. We're going to give the 3-4 another year, which is a mistake too. Mullen refuses to admit he made a horrible hire and fix the problem. And Mullen needs to let his DC Use his own philosophy, instead of tying his hands with the huge cushions.
Our talent is down on both sides of the ball too. The jucos will help, but we still are missing a number of playmakers, especially at WR and corner. Next year should tell us a lot about where we are and what Mullen is willing to change.

Mullen didn't tie the DC hands, we didn't have many options on what we could do on the backend. And as far as philosophy, it's a vast majority of DC that run bend don't break philosophy. College and pro. That is by far the most prevalent defensive philosophy in football today.

[defiantdog]

2014/15, MSU was ranked #1 in the country and had the 84th ranked defense in the nation. We went 10-3.

2015/16, MSU "improved" in defense to 54th in the nation and went 9-4.

2016/17, We go 6-7 with a defense ranked 110th. We lost 3 games with an average of what, 1.33 points per game. Another loss in double overtime?

Is there a lesson in that?

I still can't believe you're okay with being 110th in total defense. There is no way you were ever a coach.

[1bigdawg]

Almost every single problem with our offense, under Mullen, has been his refusal to play the best players. From Russell over Dak to pulling Fitz against S. AL. From Holloway over Aries to Perk over Jrob. Our game yesterday was all about playing our Srs. instead of hammering them before playing our lesser players.
The defense is the worst in school history, yet we're going to keep the worst DC in the country. We're going to give the 3-4 another year, which is a mistake too. Mullen refuses to admit he made a horrible hire and fix the problem. And Mullen needs to let his DC Use his own philosophy, instead of tying his hands with the huge cushions.
Our talent is down on both sides of the ball too. The jucos will help, but we still are missing a number of playmakers, especially at WR and corner. Next year should tell us a lot about where we are and what Mullen is willing to change.

Mullen does not make mistakes.**

[dawgday166]

Coach, I'm a pretty positive poster for our program but you have some takes that make no sense. I may pump sunshine at times but you have to be pumping from some unknown star that's a dwarf or something. With the type of defensive philosophy we have and because of issues on the backend we gave up yards but you can do that and still have a good or very good scoring defense. We have done that for years and so have many good teams. At the end of the day there are 2 stats that matter the most, who had the most points and if you got a W or L for that game. I'm not saying we can't improve and we should be trying but scoring defense can be very good while giving up yards. That IS the generic philosophy of a bend don't break defense.

Now that raht there is funny.

[Coach007]

Coach, I'm a pretty positive poster for our program but you have some takes that make no sense. I may pump sunshine at times but you have to be pumping from some unknown star that's a dwarf or something. With the type of defensive philosophy we have and because of issues on the backend we gave up yards but you can do that and still have a good or very good scoring defense. We have done that for years and so have many good teams. At the end of the day there are 2 stats that matter the most, who had the most points and if you got a W or L for that game. I'm not saying we can't improve and we should be trying but scoring defense can be very good while giving up yards. That IS the generic philosophy of a bend don't break defense.

I'm not sure we are disagreeing.

[Bodaski]

Mullen didn't tie the DC hands, we didn't have many options on what we could do on the backend. And as far as philosophy, it's a vast majority of DC that run bend don't break philosophy. College and pro. That is by far the most prevalent defensive philosophy in football today.

Mullen admitted after we played A&M he got out of the way on the defensive side of the ball. He said this in his press conference and also said he gave Brian Johnson the reins on calling offensive plays. So yea, he was knee deep in what goes on, on that side of the ball. I personally think that's why we have so much turn over on defense. You've got to hire coaches and let them coach, if not then they are fighting an almost impossible task of winning over the players. The players know who runs things and if its not the guy with the title, he's in a tough spot to be successful IMO.