Is Dan going to be Dan this year - or will he take the next step...

[Dawgheadcheese]

He averaged 16.15 runs per game. You can't pick and choose only certain games to fit your agenda. It's never, in the history of any sport, where you will have an exact number of plays you run every game.

Yeah, don't want to pick the key SEC games last season as reference.

[Dawgheadcheese]

Well you should be happy then. We are averaging over 8 wins a season over the last five years.

I am happy - but the SEC West is only stronger. Every team is doing things to make themselves better.

[Really Clark?]

Yeah, don't want to pick the key SEC games last season as reference.

You are trying to change now to fit your argument. You are wrong. C34 said he should avg about 15 carries per game in this system. You cherry picked SEC games to make a point that he was running well over the 15. You also left off a key Ark game that we barely win with him running just 13 times. Why would you do that? He avg 16.15 per game. Like coach said it is a per game avg. For the obtuse, that does not mean only 15 rushes each game but the avg for the season per game. He had limited rushes in OOC games and Vandy. Which people are harping on doing, ignorant of the fact we did it last year. The So. Alabama game we didn't but at the time many were very worried after UAB and with LSU coming up why we were not running our full offense with running Dak to get ready. And not too many were bringing this up after beating 3 of those teams you mentioned and you would not have brought it up either if we beat UNM and GT. This thought wouldn't be crossing your mind. And that's is the only reason it's an issue. We lost to UNM and that game had everything to do with execution, play calling and game planning to a degree as well. If you want to look at something how bout the fact that the three games we threw the ball the most were our three losses.

But to be clear, this is the offense, it will not change much and shouldn't because it is a proven winner. So suck it up buttercup and learn to embrace it or shut up about it. Or better yet go to Ohio States board and see what they think? A national title with this offense and had an injury before going into the playoffs. And Urban didn't and will not change a thing.

[Really Clark?]

I am happy - but the SEC West is only stronger. Every team is doing things to make themselves better.

Same thing has been said every year since Dan came here. Every year that exact thing is said. And you know what, last year I don't think that was the case. Is it a strong division? Yes. But I think 2010 was the strongest it has ever been.

[Really Clark?]

I dont think its insane at all. I think its quite obvious that Dan does not adjust in-game very well, or even in-season. It has been a glaring weakness every year. Last year woke everyone up to our offense, opposing coaches have had time to adjust. Dan will have to anticipate and adjust as well, not just rely on his system. We'll see, this year will tell.

I'm sorry but if opposing coaches haven't seen this offense enough before last season then they were not doing their homework. It's been in place since Tebow days and they have the last few years at OSU to study as well. There are wrinkles, sure, but the bulk of the offense last year is the same as it has been for years with those type of QB's. The biggest change was when we had Tyler as QB. Otherwise you have a lot of video you can study prior to last season. Even the simplified playbook the year before when Dak came in should have given them a good bit to learn from. If we execute, it is very very hard for most defenses to stop. No matter the preparation. There will be tweaks, like Dan has done every single year. The in game stuff, sure there were and always will be bad calls. Did we adjust or execute better the second half against Bama. I think it was both and we had a great shot to pull it out if not for the defense. I think he adjusts about avg or little better like most coaches. Saban is not great at adjusting at times it just get covered up by the fact they are well coached. We are well coached but every team has to execute to have a chance to win a bunch of games in this league.

[Dawgheadcheese]

You are trying to change now to fit your argument. You are wrong. C34 said he should avg about 15 carries per game in this system. You cherry picked SEC games to make a point that he was running well over the 15. You also left off a key Ark game that we barely win with him running just 13 times. Why would you do that? He avg 16.15 per game. Like coach said it is a per game avg. For the obtuse, that does not mean only 15 rushes each game but the avg for the season per game. He had limited rushes in OOC games and Vandy. Which people are harping on doing, ignorant of the fact we did it last year. The So. Alabama game we didn't but at the time many were very worried after UAB and with LSU coming up why we were not running our full offense with running Dak to get ready. And not too many were bringing this up after beating 3 of those teams you mentioned and you would not have brought it up either if we beat UNM and GT. This thought wouldn't be crossing your mind. And that's is the only reason it's an issue. We lost to UNM and that game had everything to do with execution, play calling and game planning to a degree as well. If you want to look at something how bout the fact that the three games we threw the ball the most were our three losses.

But to be clear, this is the offense, it will not change much and shouldn't because it is a proven winner. So suck it up buttercup and learn to embrace it or shut up about it. Or better yet go to Ohio States board and see what they think? A national title with this offense and had an injury before going into the playoffs. And Urban didn't and will not change a thing.

Dude, you are going off the deep end on this. I am the biggest MSU homer around. We finally have the coaching staff, facilities and players to compete with anyone. But this is my point - we are never going to have the depth of blue chip players that an Alabama, Auburn or LSU will have. We can't just "reload" as we go through the season. It is my opinion, after watching 40 years of football, that Dan made some unwise decisions last year (and years prior) that need to be cleaned up. It's hard enough to win in this league without shooting yourself in the foot. He is being paid a fortune and should be expected to improve each year - that is what I am hoping to see.

[Really Clark?]

Dude, you are going off the deep end on this. I am the biggest MSU homer around. We finally have the coaching staff, facilities and players to compete with anyone. But this is my point - we are never going to have the depth of blue chip players that an Alabama, Auburn or LSU will have. We can't just "reload" as we go through the season. It is my opinion, after watching 40 years of football, that Dan made some unwise decisions last year (and years prior) that need to be cleaned up. It's hard enough to win in this league without shooting yourself in the foot. He is being paid a fortune and should be expected to improve each year - that is what I am hoping to see.

And now you change the argument again. Here is the deal as simple as I can make it. Running Dak 170+ times this season is NOT bad coaching or an unwise decision or bad play calling. That is the offense we run. That is the Myer Mullen offense. So why complain or critique something that was been proven to work time and time again. Players playing like crap has nothing to do with bad coaching decisions. Look at the OSU Va Tech game last year. Urban didn't change his offense after that game and the loss was not just because he made bad decisions. You nor anybody else gave a rip with how many rushes Dak had against LSU. But because our execution looked bad at the end of the season it was because of bad coaching decisions? No. Now I agree he has and will make bad game calls. So will every other coach but it's only because we are so invested in our team that it is a glaring problem. I do think it is an area he can really improve on but I also recognize you do not win as many games as he has in this league with our history and not actually make better decisions than the bulk of the fan base realize.

[BoomBoom]

I'm sorry but if opposing coaches haven't seen this offense enough before last season then they were not doing their homework. It's been in place since Tebow days and they have the last few years at OSU to study as well. There are wrinkles, sure, but the bulk of the offense last year is the same as it has been for years with those type of QB's. The biggest change was when we had Tyler as QB. Otherwise you have a lot of video you can study prior to last season. Even the simplified playbook the year before when Dak came in should have given them a good bit to learn from. If we execute, it is very very hard for most defenses to stop. No matter the preparation. There will be tweaks, like Dan has done every single year. The in game stuff, sure there were and always will be bad calls. Did we adjust or execute better the second half against Bama. I think it was both and we had a great shot to pull it out if not for the defense. I think he adjusts about avg or little better like most coaches. Saban is not great at adjusting at times it just get covered up by the fact they are well coached. We are well coached but every team has to execute to have a chance to win a bunch of games in this league.

Well, we went from.empty LB sets from LSU in 3rd and short situations, to teams selling out on stopping Dak. We didnt seem to have any adjustment to that at all.

"Execution" is the biggest copout in sports. If you execute, every single play should work. Coaching is about putting your players in better position to execute/succeed.

We're not Bama. We already are at a disadvantage with the refs. We cant be outadjusted and win most games in the SEC West. We have to at least break even on the sideline if we are going to win tough SEC games on the field.

[Dawgheadcheese]

Well, we went from.empty LB sets from LSU in 3rd and short situations, to teams selling out on stopping Dak. We didnt seem to have any adjustment to that at all.

"Execution" is the biggest copout in sports. If you execute, every single play should work. Coaching is about putting your players in better position to execute/succeed.

We're not Bama. We already are at a disadvantage with the refs. We cant be outadjusted and win most games in the SEC West. We have to at least break even on the sideline if we are going to win tough SEC games on the field.

Wow, a ray of light in an otherwise sea of darkness. Thanks BoomBoom.

[Really Clark?]

Well, we went from.empty LB sets from LSU in 3rd and short situations, to teams selling out on stopping Dak. We didnt seem to have any adjustment to that at all.

"Execution" is the biggest copout in sports. If you execute, every single play should work. Coaching is about putting your players in better position to execute/succeed.

We're not Bama. We already are at a disadvantage with the refs. We cant be outadjusted and win most games in the SEC West. We have to at least break even on the sideline if we are going to win tough SEC games on the field.

Execution is a copout? Look individual game calling is one thing and yeah there were head scratchers. I think it was too much at the Egg Bowl but that defense blew up our line a lot. Either it was execution or just getting their butts whipped at the point of attack. But you also have to look at the whole picture. JRob was giving us nothing rushing the ball and Dak was the 8th leading rusher in the league last year. You have to still give him runs. Take away the sacks and he ran 24 times for 72 yards. And at the selling out to stop Dak on 3rd and 4th down and short yardage. We converted on 50% of Dak's runs. One was a 3 and goal at the one for a TD. My problem was really only a couple of plays offensively. In the second 4 & 3 at OM 35 the run for no gain but it didn't hurt us other than kept us in bad field position for the remainder of the half. I don't punt there but maybe a different play call. Play action pass, Dak fake run to pass, etc. The 3rd and 6 call at the 18 when we missed the FG but I can see trying to get points there but maybe too conservative. But on the flip side, if you are going to argue against adjusting to Dak's runs then you can't disagree with the 3 straight passes from OM 4 yard line. I call a running play on at least one of those attempts. Again, we execute better (especially on the line) make a few different calls (which can be said in every game) we possibly win that game and nobody says a word about Dan's adjustments. And lest not forget the adjustment to give Shump more carriers that game was a good adjustment.

Eta. Go back a look at the LSU game and see just how many 3 and shorts we had with the first team. I know everybody is thinking of the big TD run of Dak but we were in an empty backfield 5 wide set. You are not going to have LB's right behind the DL in that set. You had one LB up in the line to rush. The safety's or at least one was out of position. Bad execution or defensive call.

[Liverpooldawg]

I swear reading this thread it seems like we were at best average last year, esp on offense. Good lord folks we had something like the 4th best offense in SEC history last year. We had one of the top 5 seasons in school history. Many of "our" fans aren't happy unless that can whine and complain about something. Our own coaches and players always seem to be the favorite targets. Poor Old State.

One more comment: If teams are even slightly close to the same talent level, the team that executes it's scheme (no matter how simple or complicated) the best almost always wins. You want to see it in action sometime go watch South Panola against one of the better 6A teams. Some of those teams are as talented as they are. South Panola really doesn't do anything fancy but they usually do what they do very, very well. They execute. That dates all the way back to Willis Wright, who at another school once beat a team by 50+ points and only ran one play the entire ballgame.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I agree that Dan is the best coach we've ever had. The point though is that championship teams have coaches that perform at a championship level. That's why I'm a fan of the original post in this thread. Not that we need fans nitpicking and second guessing every call, but coaching is often the difference in football games played at high levels of performance.

[Really Clark?]

I agree that Dan is the best coach we've ever had. The point though is that championship teams have coaches that perform at a championship level. That's why I'm a fan of the original post in this thread. Not that we need fans nitpicking and second guessing every call, but coaching is often the difference in football games played at high levels of performance.

So Urban coached at a Championship level against VA Tech last year? That's is one of the problems with this line of thinking. Teams and coaches do not preform at championship level all the time. And most of these discussions derive from the Egg Bowl loss. But OSU fans were bemoaning same type of things early in the year. It's not we can't improve, including coaching, but certain parts of the criticisms are asinine. The offense it not going to drastically change away from running the QB. That is what lead us to one of the most prolific offenses in SEC history. It has always been the main cog in this offense even before we hired Mullen. Even in their first title at Flordia, Leake and Tebow ran for over 160 times. Leak ran 77 times for 30 yards. A .4 yard average for the season. And people think we should lower what our Top 10 SEC rusher will do significantly? If the offense will run Leak 77 times for 30 yards Dak will get at least 150 rushes. And honestly I think that number would only be because of blowouts against teams we don't anticipate blowing out. I think it will be around 170-180. Less than last year but only by 2-3 rushes per game. And that is because of hopefully and increased passing attack that is succeeding. Still should be around 60-40 rushing to passing.

[drunkernhelldawg]

So Urban coached at a Championship level against VA Tech last year? That's is one of the problems with this line of thinking. Teams and coaches do not preform at championship level all the time. And most of these discussions derive from the Egg Bowl loss. But OSU fans were bemoaning same type of things early in the year. It's not we can't improve, including coaching, but certain parts of the criticisms are asinine. The offense it not going to drastically change away from running the QB. That is what lead us to one of the most prolific offenses in SEC history. It has always been the main cog in this offense even before we hired Mullen. Even in their first title at Flordia, Leake and Tebow ran for over 160 times. Leak ran 77 times for 30 yards. A .4 yard average for the season. And people think we should lower what our Top 10 SEC rusher will do significantly? If the offense will run Leak 77 times for 30 yards Dak will get at least 150 rushes. And honestly I think that number would only be because of blowouts against teams we don't anticipate blowing out. I think it will be around 170-180. Less than last year but only by 2-3 rushes per game. And that is because of hopefully and increased passing attack that is succeeding. Still should be around 60-40 rushing to passing.

Excellent points, especially the one about the folly of expecting perfection. Also, Dak has to play to his strength, as you say. I just want solid football, not cute and clever stuff. Sometimes it seems like we are trying to outsmart our SECW rivals. That will not work.

[SallyStansbury]

Excellent points, especially the one about the folly of expecting perfection. Also, Dak has to play to his strength, as you say. I just want solid football, not cute and clever stuff. Sometimes it seems like we are trying to outsmart our SECW rivals. That will not work.

football is a chess match. ReallyClark? brings up VA Tech vs OSU. Please follow these links to see what VA Tech did to stuff OSU.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...kling-the-bear

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...l-be-a-problem

The bear defense reminds me lot of what Olemiss and Bama did to stuff Dak. We didn't have the counter move to these defensive alignments. Either Dak was hurt from running too much earlier in the year, or we didn't have the Oline to generate time to throw or holes for backs/Dak to run, or we couldn't complete the "bear killer" pass plays. Call it schematic, call it execution, call it a failure, call it olemiss and bama have superior defenses....it is a mix of all of those things. I want to see us kick the shit out of Olemiss next year, same for Bama. It is going to take something different and I hope Coach Mullen is working on it.

[confucius say]

Would Nick Saban have had a better record with MSU's talent last year? I say, no. When I watch Alabama, they have ultra talented players all over the field. I think Saban gets away with out talenting more than outcoaching. He is also great at developing those talented players, but I don't think a lot of Saban's flaws are covered up by elite talent vs. elite coaching. In college recruiting is part of the entire equation, so Saban is great, but from an overall coaching decision standpoint, I am not sure I don't take Mullen over Saban.

To your point, saban was a 7-4 coach at mich st.

[Really Clark?]

football is a chess match. ReallyClark? brings up VA Tech vs OSU. Please follow these links to see what VA Tech did to stuff OSU.

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...kling-the-bear

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio-s...l-be-a-problem

The bear defense reminds me lot of what Olemiss and Bama did to stuff Dak. We didn't have the counter move to these defensive alignments. Either Dak was hurt from running too much earlier in the year, or we didn't have the Oline to generate time to throw or holes for backs/Dak to run, or we couldn't complete the "bear killer" pass plays. Call it schematic, call it execution, call it a failure, call it olemiss and bama have superior defenses....it is a mix of all of those things. I want to see us kick the shit out of Olemiss next year, same for Bama. It is going to take something different and I hope Coach Mullen is working on it.

All of that is great but you are missing one little issue. OSU beat the crap out of Bama. They had the Va Tech film and our game and the fact OSU had to simplify the offense for a third string QB. And Urban ran a lot of the same stuff and ran the QB over 15 times in that game and the Oregon game. And Jones really wasn't that big of a threat running the ball. But that is the offense and you have to keep the defense honest.