Johnny Jones is the worst coach in the SEC

[Coach34]

Auburn is bringing in a borderline top 10 class this year, so they're about to leave us in the dust too.

we'll beat Auburn in Sville next year

[dawgs]

nobody is saying recruiting isn't important- no doubt it is. Very important
nobody is saying Ray is John Wooden. Nobody is saying Ray should keep his job another day. This thread wasn't even about Ray.

im simply saying Ray is better at the coaching aspect than Jones is. Will Ray be as successful as Jones? Highly unlikely. He will never recruit like Jones. But Jones is an awful floor coach- that can't even be disputed

I don't know if ray is all that good of a coach given the lack of progress many guys on our roster have made (especially ware, fred, Daniels), and if he can't manage a roster, why should I think he can manage a game plan and draw up innovative plays to get guys in the best positions to succeed?

[dawgs]

"Worst coach". Last time I checked, that included all aspects of being a coach.

[BeardoMSU]

This thread wasn't even about Ray.

im simply saying Ray is better at the coaching aspect than Jones is. Will Ray be as successful as Jones? Highly unlikely.

Then wtf are you talking about? We can only go off what we see with our eyes. Observation. This isn't imagination land. Rick Ray can't even have a winning season, let alone a spot in the big dance.

Shit, that's like me saying "I'd be a world-class painter, if it wasn't for my horrible brush-strokes".

[RossDawg82]

How can a "good floor coach" not manage to put points on the board or beat the press defense. This whole year it seemed that teams would toy with us, but once we hit a couple shots, they would press and we were completely lost. A good floor coach can create ways to beat that and Ray proved he cannot. So I disagree that he is a good floor coach. Anything other than he is one of the worst overall coaches in the country will not make sense to me.

[BeardoMSU]

Talking simply the coaching aspect- I'm sorry too many of you can't separate that part of it due to your hate for Ray

This has nothing to do with hate for RR. I like RR as a person. I liked him as a coach when we got him. But we 17'ing suck, and to point otherwise is just trolling. And just so you know, I wanted RS gone...actually gone sooner than he was (Its sad I feel I am required to state this). Criticizing a coach because he has led our program to 3 straight losing seasons doesn't mean we "hate" him; who's pushing an agenda now?
I don't know about everyone else, but I find it beyond Simple Jack that you would type (with a straight face) that RR is a better coach than someone who won 20 games, is recruiting at a high level, doesn't have off the court/locker-room issues (that we know of), and made it to the NCAA. Ray won't sniff that next year. So what if he is underachieving? Most coaches in the SEC are considering the level of talent they have; that's the nature of college ball now - just because you have a 5* next to your name coming out of high school doesn't mean you're a polished basketball player.

[BeardoMSU]

How can a "good floor coach" not manage to put points on the board or beat the press defense. This whole year it seemed that teams would toy with us, but once we hit a couple shots, they would press and we were completely lost. A good floor coach can create ways to beat that and Ray proved he cannot. So I disagree that he is a good floor coach. Anything other than he is one of the worst overall coaches in the country will not make sense to me.

This too.

Floor coach? Where the hell are you seeing this, Coach? Why, because we play "good" defense for stretches of games? (that has nothing to do with the poor shooting and general basketball skills of the SEC...of course not).

We are a horrible passing team. One of the worst teams in the conference in A/TO margin. One of the worst teams in the country in assists per game. We are a horrible rebounding team. We don't box-out at all; basically we have horrible technique in most facets of the game. We'll play "good" defense for 23 seconds of the shot clock, force a bad shot, but give up an offensive putback on the rebound. Guys like Ware and Fred haven't been developed, if anything they've regressed. We still can't attack a zone. We still can't shoot 3's, and you can't say that's a lack of talent either - look at those mormons the other night: what is their average recruiting class the past 3 or 4 years?

[Coach34]

These basketball discussions never cease to amaze me. Johnny Jones got in the Tourney- so therefore he is better at coaching the game than Ray says the Ray hatersBut if this was a football discussion before last August- every single damn one of you would defend Mullen and talk about what a better coach he is than Les Miles- he just doesn't have the talent Miles has. It's ****ing hilarious. Not a swinging dick on this site would say Miles was a better game coach than Mullen. But since he was going to better bowl games he must be better right????

[BeardoMSU]

These basketball discussions never cease to amaze me. Johnny Jones got in the Tourney- so therefore he is better at coaching the game than Ray says the Ray hatersBut if this was a football discussion before last August- every single damn one of you would defend Mullen and talk about what a better coach he is than Les Miles- he just doesn't have the talent Miles has. It's ****ing hilarious. Not a swinging dick on this site would say Miles was a better game coach than Mullen. But since he was going to better bowl games he must be better right????

I've never once said that, but good job deflecting and changing the subject**

[quickstrike2]

I'll take a coach that underachieves and makes the big dance over one that overachieves and beats that coach one day in January. Jones isn't that great, but recruiting makes his team relevant. I've learned my lesson about basketball, I would rather be upset about our team in February and March, than not even caring anymore in December.

[RougeDawg]

nobody is saying recruiting isn't important- no doubt it is. Very important
nobody is saying Ray is John Wooden. Nobody is saying Ray should keep his job another day. This thread wasn't even about Ray.

im simply saying Ray is better at the coaching aspect than Jones is. Will Ray be as successful as Jones? Highly unlikely. He will never recruit like Jones. But Jones is an awful floor coach- that can't even be disputed

So what you're telling everyone here, "just keep playing defense, the offense will take care of itself" Is the mindset and game plan of a "Great floor coach".

At least your post can be defended by the timestamp. The liquor stores did open at 10 am.

[BeardoMSU]

At least your post can be defended by the timestamp. The liquor stores did open at 10 am.

Ha!

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

These basketball discussions never cease to amaze me. Johnny Jones got in the Tourney- so therefore he is better at coaching the game than Ray says the Ray hatersBut if this was a football discussion before last August- every single damn one of you would defend Mullen and talk about what a better coach he is than Les Miles- he just doesn't have the talent Miles has. It's ****ing hilarious. Not a swinging dick on this site would say Miles was a better game coach than Mullen. But since he was going to better bowl games he must be better right????

I will say it. Les Miles is a better coach than Dan Mullen because of on the field results. Until Dan Mullen wins a National Title and has top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out this will be true. Having LSU on your helmet or jersey doesn't automatically equal winning (ask Gerry Dinardo).

This is the same reason that Jones is one of the better coaches in the SEC. BECAUSE HE RECROOTS SO WELL. You can make the exact same argument about Rick Ray and John Calapari. Calapari isnt some innovative X's and O's genius. He simply has better players than everyone else. You would probably argue that Rick Ray could coach circles around Calapari if he didn't have 7 future NBA guys, but in reality (where only one of us in this comversation resides) it doesn't 17'ing matter.

[BeardoMSU]

I will say it. Les Miles is a better coach than Dan Mullen because of on the field results. Until Dan Mullen wins a National Title (and plays in another) and has top 10 recruiting classes year in and year out this will be true. Having LSU on your helmet or jersey doesn't automatically equal winning (ask Gerry Dinardo).

This is the same reason that Jones is one of the better coaches in the SEC. BECAUSE HE RECROOTS SO WELL. You can make the exact same argument about Rick Ray and John Calapari. Calapari isnt some innovative X's and O's genius. He simply has better players than everyone else. You would probably argue that Rick Ray could coach circles around Calapari if he didn't have 7 future NBA guys, but in reality (where only one of us in this comversation resides) it doesn't 17'ing matter.

Well said, Bruce. I added a little tidbit though.

[dawgs]

These basketball discussions never cease to amaze me. Johnny Jones got in the Tourney- so therefore he is better at coaching the game than Ray says the Ray hatersBut if this was a football discussion before last August- every single damn one of you would defend Mullen and talk about what a better coach he is than Les Miles- he just doesn't have the talent Miles has. It's ****ing hilarious. Not a swinging dick on this site would say Miles was a better game coach than Mullen. But since he was going to better bowl games he must be better right????

That's not even a close to apt comparison. Mullen just had us ranked #1 in the country, has taken us bowling 5 straight years (probably the equivalent of 3 ncaa tourneys and 2 NIT tourneys), just went to a "BCS" bowl (equivalent of a 2 seed), beat lsu in their house at night, finished ahead of lsu in the west this year, and went to a better bowl than lsu this year. So there's at least plenty of evidence to suggest mullen is at minimum a good coach and you can argue the difference between him and miles over the long run really is the ability for LSU to sign a top 10 class every season without leaving their state. Ray hasn't shown any production on the court to support your statements. Literally has shown nothing.

[RougeDawg]

Righttttttt

Jones played Ray this year with wayyyy more talent
A better bench
in front of 2500 people- so there really wasn't a significant home court advantage

and lost

That was one of LSUs worst and sloppiest games of the year. LSU Shot 37% to our 44% but shot 17 more shots. We shot 36% from 3 to their 17%. We made 23 of 35 free throws to their 11 of 21.

For the season LSU shot 45.6% from the field and 34% from 3 point, so they clearly had an off game against us. In comparison, on the season we shot 43% from the field and 30.6% from 3.

Conclusion. We shot slightly better than our averages, against LSU, in this game while they shot well below their season average against us, yet only lost by 6. Nothing about any of this tells anyone that Ray is better than Jones at any aspect of basketball, coaching or recruiting. The win was a matter of circumstance and the circumstance was LSU being way off during that particular game.

The following game against TN we were once again unconsciously shooting the lights out. We shot 56% from the field to their 42%. We shot 73% from 3 to their 25%.

It required extremes away from one teams season average in both instances for us to come away with victory. That's why the remainder of the season we lost the majority of the games, because our offensive averages were some of the worst in the nation.

[msstate7]

That was one of LSUs worst and sloppiest games of the year. LSU Shot 37% to our 44% but shot 17 more shots. We shot 36% from 3 to their 17%. We made 23 of 35 free throws to their 11 of 21.

For the season LSU shot 45.6% from the field and 34% from 3 point, so they clearly had an off game against us. In comparison, on the season we shot 43% from the field and 30.6% from 3.

Conclusion. We shot slightly better than our averages, against LSU, in this game while they shot well below their season average against us, yet only lost by 6. Nothing about any of this tells anyone that Ray is better than Jones at any aspect of basketball, coaching or recruiting. The win was a matter of circumstance and the circumstance was LSU being way off during that particular game.

The following game against TN we were once again unconsciously shooting the lights out. We shot 56% from the field to their 42%. We shot 73% from 3 to their 25%.

It required extremes away from one teams season average in both instances for us to come away with victory. That's why the remainder of the season we lost the majority of the games, because our offensive averages were some of the worst in the nation.

Lsu lost to us, mizzou, and auburn twice

[dawgs]

That was one of LSUs worst and sloppiest games of the year. LSU Shot 37% to our 44% but shot 17 more shots. We shot 36% from 3 to their 17%. We made 23 of 35 free throws to their 11 of 21.

For the season LSU shot 45.6% from the field and 34% from 3 point, so they clearly had an off game against us. In comparison, on the season we shot 43% from the field and 30.6% from 3.

Conclusion. We shot slightly better than our averages, against LSU, in this game while they shot well below their season average against us, yet only lost by 6. Nothing about any of this tells anyone that Ray is better than Jones at any aspect of basketball, coaching or recruiting. The win was a matter of circumstance and the circumstance was LSU being way off during that particular game.

The following game against TN we were once again unconsciously shooting the lights out. We shot 56% from the field to their 42%. We shot 73% from 3 to their 25%.

It required extremes away from one teams season average in both instances for us to come away with victory. That's why the remainder of the season we lost the majority of the games, because our offensive averages were some of the worst in the nation.

Our poor shooting in literally almost every other game is not ray's fault. However when we shoot lights out for 2 games it's a sign that ray is coaching his ass off.

Likewise, when other teams have off nights, it's a sign that the coach is a bum (even if they make the tourney!). But when they shoot lights out, it's because they have superior players, and the coach still sucks worse than our <.400 coach (even if he takes them to the tourney!).

Right C34?

[RougeDawg]

Lsu lost to us, mizzou, and auburn twice

Ok. Doesn't refute how far from the norm LSU's stats were in the game vs us and how far from the norm ours were on edging out Tennessee.

If I had to bet I'd say there were similar circumstances in those games LSU played as well.

[Coach34]

I didn't realize we had so many people here that would rather have Miles than Mullen