Word is spreading that the two WR Freds are showing out

[aerodawg]

This thread is hilarious. You guys are arguing over 6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. Both of you want 2/3 of the plays to be running plays, aka 66%. This should typically lead to a fairly balanced offense in terms of yardage assuming one aspect is not horrible. Imagine 75 actual offensive plays. 50 are running and 25 are passes. At 4 yards per carry that would be 200 rushing yards which would be a great stat. If Dak completes about 65ish % of the attempts that would be around 18 completions. That would only take about 11 ypc to have a balanced attack that calls 66% running plays.

Like coach said you can't control the yardage but that's something you gotta consider when gameplanning. It is very plausible that running it 66% of the time would be a balanced offense yardage wise.

[Barking 13]

I like the idea of running the ball, with a pass thrown in if it's there. The simple fact that has been overlooked, is that the last few seasons, we get to 3rd and 2 and some dumbass calls a pass play when somebody besides Perk is getting ~6 yards a carry... If I see that shit again this year, I'm going to set my hair on fire...

[Really Clark?]

Not at all. You are completely missing the point. I picked an obvious run heavy offense on purpose. 1. because their QB is similar to ours but 2. look at the 2 numbers you just showed. They ran it 69% of the time yet only 57% of their offense came from the run. Where is passing was only used 31% of the time yet still managed to produce 43% of their offense and almost 50% of their touchdowns. It was more effective and caused more damage. Passing does way more damage in terms of yardage and touchdowns. Cam Newton had almost double the passing yards than running yards and only threw it 16 more times than he rushed it. Passing offense is the extra base hit in baseball and running offense is the single.

It's a ridiculous argument to use just the QB numbers with even an outstanding runner. If course passing the ball is going to get more yards per play. But it is in no way indicative to that team being balanced in play calling. They were not balance in play calling or yardage. That's why it was the worse example you could use. They ran the ball extremely well and was efficient enough throwing the ball that they made you pay because you had to try and stop the run first. Early and into the middle of the year it was even worse. They were running it 77% of the time in some games with very little passing to support the offense. But were still able to hit some big plays because they were efficient enough throwing the ball. Bit everything and I mean that whole offense is set up off the run. Period.

[Dawg61]

Of course passing the ball is going to get more yards per play.

Then why would you want to suppress it? For the last time, I am NOT saying call 50/50 plays pass/run. I AM saying we need to have a 50/50 passing rushing offense meaning total yards not plays. Somewhere around 60-65% run and 35-40% pass.

[Really Clark?]

Then why would you want to suppress it? For the last time, I am NOT saying call 50/50 plays pass/run. I AM saying we need to have a 50/50 passing rushing offense meaning total yards not plays. Somewhere around 60-65% run and 35-40% pass.

I guess it's an issue because you used Auburn and Cam Newton as an example. That example did not help your argument especially since they had more plays running and nearly 1,000 more yards by running the ball. It was a terrible example for your argument. And used only the QB stats to try and prove your point.

[FISHDAWG]

Auburn ran the ball to perfection last season on their way to a NC. Marshall hit just under 2,000 yards threw the air, very comparable to Dak. Mullen is more comfortable and we are a better team when we find ways to get our best athletes in space and run the ball. There's not a position on the field where they are better than we are, imho.

And our D is way better than theirs.

Auburn's passing is what hurt us in that game .... and against LSU

[Schultzy]

Numbers be damned, just get first downs when you need them, TD's when you need them, FG's when you need them and stops when you need them.

All stats can be misleading,; who can make the big play?

[Dawg61]

I guess it's an issue because you used Auburn and Cam Newton as an example. That example did not help your argument especially since they had more plays running and nearly 1,000 more yards by running the ball. It was a terrible example for your argument. And used only the QB stats to try and prove your point.

I wanted to use the most ridiculous running team to win a NC lately that I could think of. That's Auburn 2010. Reason? To show how important the pass is even for them. You guys keep saying that the run opens up the pass and it does but the pass also opens up the run. Yes Auburn had nearly 1,000 more rushing yards than passing yards that season but that's just 57% of their offensive production when they ran it 69% of the time. In other words that's a negative return on use (-12%) where the pass has a positive return on use (+12). They avg 6.1 yds a carry but avg 10.1 yds a pass. They scored 43% of their offensive tds from the pass despite passing it only 31% of the time. 31 passing tds 41 rushing tds and that difference can be likely assumed because they ran it most of the time inside the 5. Every 10.5 pass attempts they scored a touchdown. At that rate they would of scored 62 touchdowns passing if they had thrown it as much as they ran it. That's more touchdowns passing than the Denver Broncos just scored with Peyton setting the all-time record of tds thrown in 4 more games played. Again I love the run and it is extremely important to be a very good running team but it is clear as day that the pass is the more dangerous weapon and the more effective source of yards and touchdowns. Sabermetrics doesn't just work for baseball.**

[smootness]

That's my whole point. RTGDF- because teams have to commit their D to stop it this gives you bigger pass plays. If we RTGDF- we"ll get what need out of the passing game. We need to be 65/35 run to pass. That will allow us to control games and make big plays in the passing game.

As I pointed out-during the SeC title run- the teams were all run dominant. The worst one was only 58%- the rest were mid-60's to as high as 73% run. That's how you win big in the SEC- RTGDF

Very, very few teams in college football run the ball less than 58% of the time, period. And the ones who do tend to be less talented and/or down big a lot. So the stat of SEC champions is sort of just common sense.

[Really Clark?]

I wanted to use the most ridiculous running team to win a NC lately that I could think of. That's Auburn 2010. Reason? To show how important the pass is even for them. You guys keep saying that the run opens up the pass and it does but the pass also opens up the run. Yes Auburn had nearly 1,000 more rushing yards than passing yards that season but that's just 57% of their offensive production when they ran it 69% of the time. In other words that's a negative return on use (-12%) where the pass has a positive return on use (+12). They avg 6.1 yds a carry but avg 10.1 yds a pass. They scored 43% of their offensive tds from the pass despite passing it only 31% of the time. 31 passing tds 41 rushing tds and that difference can be likely assumed because they ran it most of the time inside the 5. Every 10.5 pass attempts they scored a touchdown. At that rate they would of scored 62 touchdowns passing if they had thrown it as much as they ran it. That's more touchdowns passing than the Denver Broncos just scored with Peyton setting the all-time record of tds thrown in 4 more games played. Again I love the run and it is extremely important to be a very good running team but it is clear as day that the pass is the more dangerous weapon and the more effective source of yards and touchdowns. Sabermetrics doesn't just work for baseball.**

It just doesn't work like you think. That Auburn team used the pass to supplement what they were doing running the ball. Everybody just remembers that offense at the end of the season. Those last two games had the two highest passing totals because the season of them running the ball also set up those games to open up the passing. It's not just what happens in a quarter or game. The pass does get you more yards per play because of the nature of passing the ball. Let's look at the argument in reverse. How many teams have actually won the SEC or a national title by passing the ball 55% more a game? Heck how many have done it just strictly 50/50 in play calling? Find that answer you will see why running the ball more times per game is important. Yardage is much harder to determine because you can't control how many yards a play may gain. But you can make sure you are calling the right plays to be effective. With your argument on passing yards it seems you had rather throw the ball more, use the pass as the focal point of your offense. That's fine but in this league and the vast majority of time even on the national scale that does not get it done. Make no mistake, you cannot be one dimensional even by strictly running the ball. You have to be effect throwing it but throwing it off of your running game. The yards you gain is more dependent on your on personnel, what the opposing teams are given you defensively, their personnel, etc. I mean every defensive coach in this league preaches stopping the run first and is the most important component to having a good defense. And teams still want to run the ball more than throwing it against defenses who are scheming to stop it first.

[Dawg61]

Not advertising throwing it more than passing. Just letting the RTGDF crowd look at a few stats. This faction seems to get a little hardheaded imo towards the run and I think it's important to understand that the offensive machine doesn't work like it's supposed to if one of the two options (pass/run) is getting neglected or overworked. They both have to be used for both to be most effective. At some point the production goes down per attempt when being overused. Teams will start stacking 9 guys in the box and you'll be essentially running straight into a brick wall. Balanced offense imo is the best offense. And balanced offense doesn't mean balanced snaps. I am very excited for our passing attack this year. That is the other big reason why I am speaking up on this. We have serious weapons all throughout the wide receiver position that we've never had at MSU. I want them to get used. When we have 2-3 serious wr threats mixed in with 100 yard running backs and a QB playing like Superman we will have the closest thing to an elite offense that MSU has ever witnessed. We can't take the easy route and just RTGDF when the potential to have a much more efficient higher scoring offense is there for the taking.