Any thoughts on the Michael Sam Kiss on ESPN...

[thunderclap]

Yeah. Better him than me.

[msstate7]

And that's a 100% perfectly fine stance to take. No one is asking Christians who view homosexuality as a sin to change that view. We're asking them to take an objective, fair view of the world, and not treat homosexuals differently from other sinners, like divorcees and those who have pre-marital sex. Those sinners aren't prevented from marriage, having children, having legal spousal rights, tax benefits, etc etc etc by the state.

Nature (God) prevents them from having children

[BeardoMSU]

Nature (God) prevents them from having children

****Adoption; don't be obtuse*****

Also, in reference to nature, the Pan paniscus (i.e., Bonobo), our closest evolutionary relative, demonstrates these actions as well.

[RC3]

Nature (God) prevents them from having children

adoption....or artificial insemination for lesbians, or surrogate mothers for men

[dawgs]

Glad y'all took care if that one for me. Should have known I'd need to spell it out for a braves fan.

[hacker]

Nature (God) prevents them from having children

I didn't know having children was required for people to love one another.

[hacker]

****Adoption; don't be obtuse*****

Also, in reference to nature, the Pan paniscus (i.e., Bonobo), our closest evolutionary relative, demonstrates these actions as well.

You used the "e" word. You think that's going to get through to him? That's kinda like when a Christian says, "of course it's true, it's in the Bible!"

[WeWonItAll(Most)]

****Adoption; don't be obtuse*****

Also, in reference to nature, the Pan paniscus (i.e., Bonobo), our closest evolutionary relative, demonstrates these actions as well.

Same sex relations is common in a lot of animal species. Homophobia is a very modern concept, mainly due to Christianity and Islam being the biggest two religions in the world, both of which call gay marriage a sin.

Bonobos have sex as a social tool, similar to other species of monkeys grooming each other.

In Papua New Guiana, there are some cultures where heterosexual sex is viewed about the way homosexual sex is viewed in America.

[BeardoMSU]

You used the "e" word. You think that's going to get through to him? That's kinda like when a Christian says, "of course it's true, it's in the Bible!"

Damn, you're right. Ken Ham just shit his pants.

[hacker]

My favorite thing in all of this is when people use The Bible as an excuse for being anti-gay. Homosexuality is an abomination, right? Well, so is eating shrimp, oysters, etc.

Usually, when you point this out, the typical response is "well, times were different back then!" Yeah, maybe so -- so maybe that's why you shouldn't continue cherry-picking Bible verses to support your close-mindedness.

[BeardoMSU]

My favorite thing in all of this is when people use The Bible as an excuse for being anti-gay. Homosexuality is an abomination, right? Well, so is eating shrimp, oysters, etc.

Usually, when you point this out, the typical response is "well, times were different back then!" Yeah, maybe so -- so maybe that's why you shouldn't continue cherry-picking Bible verses to support your close-mindedness.

Not only that, but when you point out some of those other "sins", the typical response is: "well that was the Old Testament, before Jesus died", etc., etc.,....I guess homophobia is exempt from that clause.

[archdog]

If you look at it from the point of football...the guy is just an average NFL player. No other player around his draft position get near the attention. So, the real question is, does he get attention for being a great player or because he is gay? We all know the answer. Does SportsCenter show the guy picked before him or after him kissing his girlfriend? Of course not! Why would they? If there is Any way the media can portray this choice as "normal" they will jump all over it. The only thing that is considered offensive to people today is Christian Values and Decency!

This was the first openly gay NFL player. Everyone knows the reason he was on the t.v. It's great. Now we can all move on. Just like anything else the media latches on. 1st time, its something new. 2nd time, less of a big deal. 3rd time, there will not even be a mention that said player is gay.

[Charlie_Sheen420]

[msstate7]

My favorite thing in all of this is when people use The Bible as an excuse for being anti-gay. Homosexuality is an abomination, right? Well, so is eating shrimp, oysters, etc.

Usually, when you point this out, the typical response is "well, times were different back then!" Yeah, maybe so -- so maybe that's why you shouldn't continue cherry-picking Bible verses to support your close-mindedness.

Being under the law vs grace. After Jesus paid the sin debt, Christians live under grace now

[jeremyrbrown]

Serious question: What translation of 1 Corinthians doesn't sound like this?

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 Cor 6:9-11

[dickiedawg]

I agree with your post in many ways here... I have difficulty going to church bc of this. I've chosen to read the Bible and do my best to follow the 10 commandments instead.

This is way off topic, but I'm very interested in what you've said here.
I've heard people mention things to this end, and it breaks my heart on a couple of levels.
1. It's a crying shame that Christianity in general has this bad reputation of being disingenuous and hypocritical, to the point that would-be church members are turned away.
2. Reading your Bible and doing your best to follow the 10 commandments, despite your good intentions, won't save you. The only thing that will is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Since you appear to believe in God and the Bible, that saddens me even more than some in this thread who apparently have no such belief.

I don't say any of this to be judgmental. Just expressing my beliefs since it was brought up.

[BeardoMSU]

This is way off topic, but I'm very interested in what you've said here.
I've heard people mention things to this end, and it breaks my heart on a couple of levels.
1. It's a crying shame that Christianity in general has this bad reputation of being disingenuous and hypocritical, to the point that would-be church members are turned away.
2. Reading your Bible and doing your best to follow the 10 commandments, despite your good intentions, won't save you. The only thing that will is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Since you appear to believe in God and the Bible, that saddens me even more than some in this thread who apparently have no such belief.

I don't say any of this to be judgmental. Just expressing my beliefs since it was brought up.

Many people view this as ethnocentric in nature; even the new Pope has expressed something similar. There are many non-Christians throughout the world who are amazing people, and I refuse to believe they aren't "as good as others" in the eyes of God. Hell, David Duke is a "Christian" (not saying he is an accurate representation of Christianity). Again, that's where the literal interpretation comes into play.

[jeremyrbrown]

This is way off topic, but I'm very interested in what you've said here.
I've heard people mention things to this end, and it breaks my heart on a couple of levels.
1. It's a crying shame that Christianity in general has this bad reputation of being disingenuous and hypocritical, to the point that would-be church members are turned away.
2. Reading your Bible and doing your best to follow the 10 commandments, despite your good intentions, won't save you. The only thing that will is a relationship with Jesus Christ. Since you appear to believe in God and the Bible, that saddens me even more than some in this thread who apparently have no such belief.

I don't say any of this to be judgmental. Just expressing my beliefs since it was brought up.

Well said. No individual's best effort will get him to heaven. Only God's grace and your faith in Jesus as Savior AND Lord of your life.

[PMDawg]

Common denominator in all these type of discussions is religion makes people intolerant and say stupid shit. Christians dont have a stranglehold on that. It is all religions.

You cry about intolerance, bigotry, and hate speech and then spew this? Lol. Tell me, where do you stand on irony?

For the record, your thinly veiled insults don't make you look that smart. I have an IQ in the top 2% and have some masters level theoretical physics under my belt...and I still have faith. So don't fool yourself into thinking you're more intelligent than someone just because they're religious.

[BeardoMSU]

You cry about intolerance, bigotry, and hate speech and then spew this? Lol. Tell me, where do you stand on irony?

For the record, your thinly veiled insults don't make you look that smart. I have an IQ in the top 2% and have some masters level theoretical physics under my belt...and I still have faith. So don't fool yourself into thinking you're more intelligent than someone just because they're religious.

I agree, it's wrong to assume someone is stupid just because they're religious. For me, however, it's always been about whether you follow a literal interpretation (yes, I keep saying this...) of the Biblical text that denotes intelligence. If you use the Bible for faith, spiritual enlightenment, and a model for altruism and helping others, I applaud you, but there are many who don't. They latch onto passages and concepts that make no sense, and thus, cause many people to question their intelligence. You for example, with all your knowledge of physics and science, if I heard you talking about how Genesis "proves" the Earth is 6,000 years old and that dinosaurs and man lived together (e.g., Ken Ham), I would obviously think you weren't very smart. It's the same as when people who spoke out against heliocentrism were labeled as heretics and put to death. Or people who thought the earth was flat.