MSU is STILL Not Serious About Football

[R2Dawg]

Retreads hit at about the same rate they miss. For every Lane Kiffin and David Cutcliffe there's a Kevin Sumlin and Tom Herman. You honestly just have to be desperate and willing enough to take the chance with a retread. You have to understand that the chances you crash and burn are equal to the chances you succeed at a high level. Ole Miss was desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Kiffin. We were desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Jackie. Both of those risks were wildly successful. Conversely, Auburn was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Freeze. Kansas was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Les Miles. Both of those were unmitigated disasters.

Yeah the retread success is not just about that either. The school, the fan base, leadership, talent, and other stuff has to be right.

Auburn was a mess when they hired Freeze. I'm not sure any retread would have worked there. Auburn is still a mess. Any other retread but Saban would have likely been a disaster at Bama but all the other stuff really lined up well at Bama at that time too.

[smootness]

Cristobal got fired at FIU and had to be an asst for 5 years before getting another HC job.
Saban was a loser NFL coach that jumped at Bama
Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons. Only 2 times the last 11. Good coach but was never wanted at a top notch program

You posted Saban at LSU. But even at Bama, every school in the country would have still taken him then, he was not at all a retread.

Cristobal at Miami was coming off a successful stint at Oregon. At Oregon, he is closer to a retread.

And Leach was not a retread, he was known as one of the best coaches in the country. The reason no top programs would go after him is because of his scheme and all the other stuff he brings. He is not who a Texas or Bama hires. But he had success everywhere. Not close to a retread.

[Coach34]

But he had success everywhere. Not close to a retread.

Depends how you evaluate success. 7 top 25 finishes in 21 seasons. 2 in the last 11. We would consider that below average even in our program. Mullen has finished 6 times in the Top 25 in only 14 seasons. Had he won the bowl game this past season he would be 7 for 14. Leach was not one of the best coaches in the country. Leach was a niche pony act with good quotes. Mullen has been a way better coach yet many of you crow about him being average.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I was never a huge Leach fan like some but he sure did a lot better here than the bozos we hired before and after him this century outside Mullen

[smootness]

Depends how you evaluate success. 7 top 25 finishes in 21 seasons. 2 in the last 11. We would consider that below average even in our program. Mullen has finished 6 times in the Top 25 in only 14 seasons. Had he won the bowl game this past season he would be 7 for 14. Leach was not one of the best coaches in the country. Leach was a niche pony act with good quotes. Mullen has been a way better coach yet many of you crow about him being average.

Yes, let us completely ignore where they coached. Good job.

Leach was recognized by pretty much everyone as an outstanding coach. Still is. Sorry.

And I have no clue why you are bringing up Mullen. I am a huge Mullen fan. You are the one who always wanted him gone.

[Really Clark?]

The College Football Hall of Fame adjusted their win percentage criteria to make sure they get Mike Leach in as soon as he's eligible in 2027. That's a pretty good definition of success.

[R2Dawg]

The College Football Hall of Fame adjusted their win percentage criteria to make sure they get Mike Leach in as soon as he's eligible in 2027. That's a pretty good definition of success.

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

[Coach34]

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

Yes- they are lowering the bar so Mr. Airbone can get in.

[Really Clark?]

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

They lowered the win percentage from 60% to 59.5% because the coaches petitioned for it.

[MBDawg601]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

[CaptainObvious]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

Amazing isn?t it. Still kicking the man who turned the program around quickly from the Mo?head debacle while we hired ?another? damned Coordinator who gets on the job training pay by Good Ol? MSU while leading his charges to 1 SEC win in 16 games.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

[Quaoarsking]

They lowered the win percentage from 60% to 59.5% because the coaches petitioned for it.

It makes sense. He didn't get the 3 gimme wins in 2020 because the SEC didn't allow non-conference games. He would have been over 60% most likely without that extenuating circumstance

[Really Clark?]

It makes sense. He didn't get the 3 gimme wins in 2020 because the SEC didn't allow non-conference games. He would have been over 60% most likely without that extenuating circumstance

Well I think the bowl game we won after his passing was more prominent on their minds. That would have put him at 60% win percentage for his career.

[Tater]

Well I think the bowl game we won after his passing was more prominent on their minds. That would have put him at 60% win percentage for his career.

can't tell me he didn't coach that game and lead us to a win.

i mean... how many other games have you seen a team not ever lead until the last 15 seconds. and then also win by two scores. covered the spread. ****in insane.

[smootness]

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

In this thread, he was called a retread, a niche pony act with a gimic O.

No, he was not Saban. Literally no one ever claimed he was. No one said he was an elite program builder or consistent championship level coach. But can we please not pretend he was nothing special? He was very good.

[Coach34]

In this thread, he was called a retread, a niche pony act with a gimic O.

No, he was not Saban. Literally no one ever claimed he was. No one said he was an elite program builder or consistent championship level coach. But can we please not pretend he was nothing special? He was very good.

Leach- 7 Top 25 finishes in 21 seasons

Tommy Bowden had 5 Top 25's in 12 seasons
Terry Bowden had 5 in 15 D-1 seasons
RC Slocum had 10 in 14 seasons
Butch Davis had 6 in 15 seasons
Lame has 5 in 14 seasons and was cheated out of one when he went 11-3
Houston Nutt- 5 in 14 seasons of D-1

These guys were basically the same or better than Leach- are they HOF also?

[Todd4State]

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

The thing about Leach was he was never anywhere that had the resources that an Alabama, LSU, Tennessee etc. had. I suspect if he did coach somewhere like that he would have won at a pretty high level.

But at the same time coaching somewhere like Georgia would not have been very Mike Leach either.

[Todd4State]

Leach- 7 Top 25 finishes in 21 seasons

Tommy Bowden had 5 Top 25's in 12 seasons
Terry Bowden had 5 in 15 D-1 seasons
RC Slocum had 10 in 14 seasons
Butch Davis had 6 in 15 seasons
Lame has 5 in 14 seasons and was cheated out of one when he went 11-3
Houston Nutt- 5 in 14 seasons of D-1

These guys were basically the same or better than Leach- are they HOF also?

Did they influence people in the NFL in terms of scheme? Heck- the 2007 Patriots offense was allegedly highly influenced by the Air Raid.

It's the same thing as Don Coryell being in the NFL Hall of Fame even though he never made it to a Super Bowl.

[Coach34]

Did they influence people in the NFL in terms of scheme? Heck- the 2007 Patriots offense was allegedly highly influenced by the Air Raid.

It's the same thing as Don Coryell being in the NFL Hall of Fame even though he never made it to a Super Bowl.

Chuck Knox never made a SB and he is in the HOF also. There will be others- like a Marvin Lewis. George Allen made 1 SB and lost and is in.

Again- he was a good coach but he was no better than a Tommy Bowden or RC Slocum