Coach 34, if I may, a football question

[gtowndawg]

In a recent thread (I forget which one) you commented we (State) have decided to try and compete in basketball and baseball and "survive" in football. Can you elaborate what survive means exactly? Does survive mean try and win 6 or try and win 8 or try and win at all? I've said in this landscape we need to go all in on basketball and shoot for 6-8 wins in football. Maybe once a decade we win 9 or 10 as crazy as that seems right now. But 6 or 7 wins gets you to a bowl and at least keeps us as somewhat stable in the most important sport.

[Tbonewannabe]

Not Coach34, but I will throw out my opinion.

We aren't throwing money into football like Ole Miss and all that got them was a New Year's Day bowl. I would assume we don't have the budget to get even middle of the pack in the SEC. That gets you to the Outback or Liberty bowl.

We can't do things how we were previously successful. We are essentially a minor league team for the upper level. If we have a great player then they will outbid us more than likely.

We seem to have alumni willing to pony up in baseball and somewhat in basketball but that is somewhat doable with the smaller roster.

[Coach34]

Well- it comes down to this:

We have guys that stepped up in baseball to ensure we are going to be a top half SEC program for the coming future. Top half of the SEC means you are contending for a Natty every year. LSU/Texas/A&M/Tenn/UPig/Fla and then us are pumping money into baseball at a higher rate than the other programs. We have commitments now to make sure we remain a Big Boy in the sport. Your NIL dollars go farther in baseball than the other sports.

Basketball has their guys that are committed to make sure we are going to win in basketball. Keep us relevant in the sport. We dont have the money of a Kentucky and others- but because basketball rosters are smaller- we can afford to build a pretty good roster year in and out. So we are committed there.

Football is just a different animal. We simply cant afford to contend. Half the conference will be at or close to $20MM in NIL for the 2025 season. We cant get close to that. We have guys pumping money into the program but its just enough to make sure we can stay ahead of G5 and compete with the bottom of the conference. Football has to moneyball it- basketball and baseball do not. Thats the difference

[confucius say]

You mean 20 million total or 20 million on top of the revenue share?

[BigDawg81]

Yes. We are in baseball
Bart Hyche (sp) holds an annual golf event for the basketball NIL
I don’t see any of that for football

[Coach34]

You mean 20 million total or 20 million on top of the revenue share?

On top. The $20MM is the mandatory part and done by the school for all programs total. The boosters kick in the rest of whats needed to build top rosters for prospective sports.

Its been reported Manning at Texas has around an $8MM NIL for 2025. Our QB left to get a million at LSU. The NCAA revenue sharing is nothing but a way to end a court case and then schools will continue business as usual.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Well- it comes down to this:

We have guys that stepped up in baseball to ensure we are going to be a top half SEC program for the coming future. Top half of the SEC means you are contending for a Natty every year. LSU/Texas/A&M/Tenn/UPig/Fla and then us are pumping money into baseball at a higher rate than the other programs. We have commitments now to make sure we remain a Big Boy in the sport. You NIL dollars go farther in baseball than the other sports.

Basketball has their guys that are committed to make sure we are going to win in basketball. Keep us relevant in the sport. We dont have the money of a Kentucky and others- but because basketball rosters are smaller- we can afford to build a pretty good roster year in and out. So we are committed there.

Football is just a different animal. We simply cant afford to contend. Half the conference will be at or close to $20MM in NIL for the 2025 season. We cant get close to that. We have guys pumping money into the program but it?s just enough to make sure we can stay ahead of G5 and compete with the bottom of the conference. Football has to moneyball it- basketball and baseball do not. Thats the difference

I definitely agree on most of this, but I still am confused on if Ole Miss, Missouri and USCe to a smaller degree can do it why we can?t for football. Ole Miss poured money into NIL early because they are more progressive than us overall and had a much better coaching situation, but if we had got a similar caliber coach as Ole Miss, what is the reason we can?t get the money to win 8 or 9 games like they can? Clearly it is a struggle for Ole Miss or Missouri to get over the hump and out perform the big boys like Texas, UGA and Bama, but Ole Miss and Missouri are both punching above their weight having similar or better seasons than LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida etc. I guess I am just not informed enough and would like to know if those programs can do it why can?t state when we are pretty much on equal terms with programs like OM, Mizzou and USCe historically

[HoopsDawg]

College football has a 105 man roster. NFL has a 53 man roster. Seems we need to manage our roster like an NFL team. Focus funds on 45 players. Assign value to positions. Allocate resources to off field staff for evaluation and recruiting. De-prioritize high school players. Value older players with chips on their shoulders. Coach em up and see what happens.

[Pinto]

College football has a 105 man roster. NFL has a 53 man roster. Seems we need to manage our roster like an NFL team. Focus funds on 45 players. Assign value to positions. Allocate resources to off field staff for evaluation and recruiting. De-prioritize high school players. Value older players with chips on their shoulders. Coach em up and see what happens.

They just need to cut the college football roster down to 65 or 70. That would create more parity and prevent the cutting of other sports that is taking place at several schools

[CaptainObvious]

I definitely agree on most of this, but I still am confused on if Ole Miss, Missouri and USCe to a smaller degree can do it why we can?t for football. Ole Miss poured money into NIL early because they are more progressive than us overall and had a much better coaching situation, but if we had got a similar caliber coach as Ole Miss, what is the reason we can?t get the money to win 8 or 9 games like they can? Clearly it is a struggle for Ole Miss or Missouri to get over the hump and out perform the big boys like Texas, UGA and Bama, but Ole Miss and Missouri are both punching above their weight having similar or better seasons than LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida etc. I guess I am just not informed enough and would like to know if those programs can do it why can?t state when we are pretty much on equal terms with programs like OM, Mizzou and USCe historically

Because for whatever reason State either can't hire a guy like Lane Kiffin or will not try to. The Head Coach matters in Football and he needs to have some sort of pedigree!

As for Missouri, when they were Big 12, they were like Kansas, Iowa State. Cannon Fodder for the league elites. They joined the SEC, had some early success and decided to compete. They hired an up and comer. Also, they are the only real college program in a moderate sized State with 2 major cities!

[Coach34]

I definitely agree on most of this, but I still am confused on if Ole Miss, Missouri and USCe to a smaller degree can do it why we can?t for football. Ole Miss poured money into NIL early because they are more progressive than us overall and had a much better coaching situation, but if we had got a similar caliber coach as Ole Miss, what is the reason we can?t get the money to win 8 or 9 games like they can? Clearly it is a struggle for Ole Miss or Missouri to get over the hump and out perform the big boys like Texas, UGA and Bama, but Ole Miss and Missouri are both punching above their weight having similar or better seasons than LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida etc. I guess I am just not informed enough and would like to know if those programs can do it why can?t state when we are pretty much on equal terms with programs like OM, Mizzou and USCe historically

They are the Dr's and lawyers school- like it or not- they do have more money than we do. Their FB program also earns millions more per season than ours does. Lastly- their people are more committed than ours as a whole. They want the prestige of being an NIL contributor. They have people that will drive to Oxford for big recruiting weekends to make that shithole look more packed with people than an average weekend. Be seen out in restaurants and around town. Make it look busy so recruits see a thriving town.

[Coach34]

College football has a 105 man roster. NFL has a 53 man roster. Seems we need to manage our roster like an NFL team. Focus funds on 45 players. Assign value to positions. Allocate resources to off field staff for evaluation and recruiting. De-prioritize high school players. Value older players with chips on their shoulders. Coach em up and see what happens.

I agree with this completely. We cant be a developmental school anymore. Those days are gone in the current model of constant transfers

[StarkVegasSteve]

They are the Dr's and lawyers school- like it or not- they do have more money than we do. Their FB program also earns millions more per season than ours does. Lastly- their people are more committed than ours as a whole. They want to the prestige of being an NIL contributor. They have people that will drive to Oxford for big recruiting weekends to make that shithole look more packed with people than an average weekend. Be seen out in restaurants and around town. Make it look busy so recruits see a thriving town.

This is the god honest truth. They wear donating to The Grove Collective like a badge of honor. We have people that want to brand people who donate to the Bulldog Initiative or State Excellence Fund with a scarlet A.

[parabrave]

I definitely agree on most of this, but I still am confused on if Ole Miss, Missouri and USCe to a smaller degree can do it why we can?t for football. Ole Miss poured money into NIL early because they are more progressive than us overall and had a much better coaching situation, but if we had got a similar caliber coach as Ole Miss, what is the reason we can?t get the money to win 8 or 9 games like they can? Clearly it is a struggle for Ole Miss or Missouri to get over the hump and out perform the big boys like Texas, UGA and Bama, but Ole Miss and Missouri are both punching above their weight having similar or better seasons than LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida etc. I guess I am just not informed enough and would like to know if those programs can do it why can?t state when we are pretty much on equal terms with programs like OM, Mizzou and USCe historically

OM has LK who has contacts still in So Cal who will send their QB son to him. And somehow they do get receivers that for his Offense. We didn't even Leach. He had contacts at Brandon/

[gtowndawg]

I definitely agree on most of this, but I still am confused on if Ole Miss, Missouri and USCe to a smaller degree can do it why we can?t for football. Ole Miss poured money into NIL early because they are more progressive than us overall and had a much better coaching situation, but if we had got a similar caliber coach as Ole Miss, what is the reason we can?t get the money to win 8 or 9 games like they can? Clearly it is a struggle for Ole Miss or Missouri to get over the hump and out perform the big boys like Texas, UGA and Bama, but Ole Miss and Missouri are both punching above their weight having similar or better seasons than LSU, Auburn, Tennessee, Florida etc. I guess I am just not informed enough and would like to know if those programs can do it why can?t state when we are pretty much on equal terms with programs like OM, Mizzou and USCe historically

This is where I fall. Unfortunately, it sounds like we've given up on football, which if that's the case, we will become Southern eventually. I still think we can compete and win 6,7,8 games a year, call me crazy.

[maroonmania]

They are the Dr's and lawyers school- like it or not- they do have more money than we do. Their FB program also earns millions more per season than ours does. Lastly- their people are more committed than ours as a whole. They want the prestige of being an NIL contributor. They have people that will drive to Oxford for big recruiting weekends to make that shithole look more packed with people than an average weekend. Be seen out in restaurants and around town. Make it look busy so recruits see a thriving town.

Buying players in football has been their thing for decades way before it was legal. The fact they can do it now unfettered is perfect for them. We just don't have those kind of boosters who have lots of cash and love the ego boost of being able to say "I bought that guy for us". I never worried about falling way behind OM in football until NIL essentially allowed pay for play but now its going to be tough sledding for us to stay up with them. Leach passing and them being willing to hire Kiffin (who though tainted was always a heck of an offensive coach) has just helped further separate things. I do think if our boosters could see some light at the end of the tunnel with a competent coaching staff in place they would be willing to put more funds into football NIL. Right now though there isn't much hope, and when there isn't hope, folks aren't nearly as willing to donate their money.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is where I fall. Unfortunately, it sounds like we've given up on football, which if that's the case, we will become Southern eventually. I still think we can compete and win 6,7,8 games a year, call me crazy.

We can win 6-7 consistently and every 2-3 years sneak up and win 9-10. That is why we need to stabilize the roster. We need to get back to that 6-7 win threshold with what we have and then start to find multi year guys that can build towards a peak year, a bit like we used to do with Mullen but it's a bit harder to time in the portal era.

[confucius say]

On top. The $20MM is the mandatory part and done by the school for all programs total. The boosters kick in the rest of whats needed to build top rosters for prospective sports.

It's been reported Manning at Texas has around an $8MM NIL for 2025. Our QB left to get a million at LSU. The NCAA revenue sharing is nothing but a way to end a court case and then schools will continue business as usual.

Right. I get that the rev share is 20.5, about 15-17 of which will go to football.
But I don't think 8 sec teams will put in additional 20 million to football on top of the 15-17. That would be 35-37 million.

[confucius say]

They just need to cut the college football roster down to 65 or 70. That would create more parity and prevent the cutting of other sports that is taking place at several schools

Yep. You don't need 105 players. 80 is more than enough.

[Coach34]

Right. I get that the rev share is 20.5, about 15-17 of which will go to football.
But I don't think 8 sec teams will put in additional 20 million to football on top of the 15-17. That would be 35-37 million.

Oh really?

https://www.outkick.com/sports/texas...use-settlement