Reply With QuoteAnd there's a tape of a OSU coaches meeting that was a part of something ESPN was doing at the time where Day asks Urban about the MSU job and Urban tells him it's a shitty job, don't take it.Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
It's rare for us to get our 1st target when hiring altho I think we did with Jan. I didnt hear about us getting serious talks with anybody else during that time
Walk like the King or walk like you don't care who the King is
And there's a tape of a OSU coaches meeting that was a part of something ESPN was doing at the time where Day asks Urban about the MSU job and Urban tells him it's a shitty job, don't take it.
Nearly all pass offenses are similar. If you take Alabama or Ohio State play books, the schemes are similar. The terminology will be different. I am going to bring to light two pass plays (1) The Basic Outside Play and (2) Mesh Rail.
The Basic Outside Play is called “Outside” by some programs, and “Basic” by most high schools thru NFL. “Basic” was the build off play for the inception of the spread offense decades ago and is still now. Basic defined is the wide receiver running a vertical and the slot running an out pattern under the vertical. Elite high schools thru NFL sometimes run a higher out about 10 yards under the vertical called OHIO which means O outside HI high aconitum.
Mesh Rail is what it implies under mesh routes with a vertical up the hash mark area called the “Rail”. I personal would see, while sitting in the Scoreboard Section, MSU receivers properly leveraged in match-up situations because the defense would drop an additional defender in the short passing lanes to stop the Air Raid Concept. MSU throws against perceived separation and not match-up leverage so we get check downs? LSU and Ohio Stated do not have that issue. They do repetitions to win match-ups and they launch instead of check down DURING THE GAME?
Back to “Basic” and remember many offenses have this in their schematic play book. What the playbook does not have is the proper releases against defensive alignments. How many pages would it take to incorporate multiple releases required?
If you have a weak armed quarterback that does not master tight window passing, you have a weakness in the offense. If you have a weak-minded quarterback that can’t read or gets flustered at moments, the receivers have to step up and rise to the moment. So back to the two plays in this exposure, are the receivers scheme participants or are they players? Are the receivers spending practice time on scheme participation or playmaking? How much tight window work is being practiced?
I have coached receivers and defensive backs at the junior college level and have attended many passing clinics including many Air Raid presentations. While as a secondary coach, it was easy to coach against the scheme because the scheme is well known by those who need to know it. Focusing on scheme and dealing with receivers who know how to leverage and dominate a defender, while executing the architecture of the play is a totally different nightmare. How many receivers has Mississippi State sent into the NFL in the past 25 years?
I am closing with two high lights from maybe the best PUBLIC high school football program in America. There are a few PRIVATE programs better. They all got the message about tight windows and leverage unlike Mississippi State over the past 25 years. Enjoy your SMOOT high lights from back in the day?
file:///C:/Users/Norm/Downloads/Video/WR%20Cameron%20Smith%20thight%20window%20catch.mp4
file:///C:/Users/Norm/Downloads/Video/North%20Shore%20the%20Class%206A%20Division%201%20 state%20championship.mp4
I tried to attach North Shore High School football video from X/Twitter and it did not get on to the post. Go to X/Twitter North Shore Football for video to support this statement.
https://youtu.be/lUWKlKYjfew?si=MRg6mmOavMv28igD
Watch the ending of the Youtube video.
Last edited by coachnorm; 04-17-2025 at 02:54 PM.
Anyone who thought Moorhead was going to be a good hire should legit be banned from any kind of sports broadcasting or writing. I have no idea where people ever got the idea this was a good hire. I live in PA and he was a joke amongst Penn State fans. He had a loaded offense that was given to him and he still could not get into the playoff. He has always underachieved given the talent around him. I was actually more upset when we hired Moorhead than Arnett. It was a legit lazy hire by Cohen without doing any real homework. Arnett did fool me a little bit that he might be an okay head coach, but I was not buying any of Moorhead's BS. Then he asked the players their ring size? Cringe!
Last edited by PGHBulldogBG; 04-17-2025 at 03:34 PM.
This interesting because the MSU job worked well for his Florida OC, Dan Mullen. Then MSU and Mullen helped end Urbans Florida career, 10-7 game. DM even made it to #1 in 2014 Urban could not win at Florida without DM and Tebow.
Last edited by The Federalist Engineer; 04-17-2025 at 06:42 PM.
People don’t want to invest in this because it’s clear that those in charge, whether that is coaches, staffer, administration or boosters, don’t appear to know what they are doing. Why would I donate $10-20k a year for bad recruiting, poor talent evaluation, and continued bad coaching hires. I will invest but I want to see some cohesive, progressive direction from the entire athletic program and good choices happening. No one has seen anything like that in years.
What it essentially comes down to and goes back to is recruiting. If you want win match ups you have to have players. And the only way to get players is to do the one thing that MSU does not like to do and that is recruit football players.
1. Urban Meyer is a POS.
2. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Dan Mullen ran down our program when he talked about us to other coaches.
I agree with that. The disconnect between the fans and the AD are big. Installing LED lights is a step in the right direction. Bringing back to interlocking MSU for one game even was a small step in the right direction as well- with the next step being to use it more and more until it becomes the primary uniform again.
For me personally, the most discouraging thing is I see MSU constantly making the same mistakes over and over, there never seems to be much emphasis on recruiting and bringing in blue chip talent- "Oh give up immediately on that guy from Meridian- Bama wants him." and boosters that have the football IQ that is incredibly low to the point where they make mind numbing decisions to the point where you question whether they really want to win or if they just want access to the program. There's a lot of screw what the fans want and what is really best for the program- we want what WE want.
And if you treat fans like that- eventually they are going to stop supporting the team. Because that is the only resort to change things.
The whole Mike Leach situation and how obviously botched it was- followed up with the typical MSU response of "It wasn't really our fault or anyone's fault because this is an unprecedented situation"- it's obviously BS and the fans are simply tired of being sold it. It would be nice if the boosters actually stopped hiding behind Keenum and actually took some ****ing responsibility for their actions for once. It will never happen until the next version of Rosebowl comes out with a book about it about 60 years from now.
I'm very tempted to just say- Hey don't give us your money if you want to run our football program like Louisville High School. But I know we need their money so...
It definitely is why I don't want to give right now. On top of knowing the money of NIL goes straight to 18-20 year olds and it is no investment, we also see bad decision making by our administration and those boosters that had the president's ear for Cohen , and then the group(if the same) for Arnett.
Greg Byrne got our program turned in a good direction, but it seems we have yielded back to "one of us" hires and influences within the administration.
Well the inverse is do not give and I can guarantee we will suck if that happens. I have faith in Zac to get things turned around. I have tried to tell y’all how bad the administration was when Selmon took over. He literally almost quit his first week because we had people making 6 figures that did not know what they were supposed to be doing. 2025 is the first year we have had a competent athletic dept because we finally got rid of all the waste.
On the football front, I really like the changes Lebby made in the offseason. From the guys we brought in to the coaches we brought in. Again, I do not think people fully grasp how bad it was. Lebby is diplomatic about it because he does not want to speak ill of the previous staffs but he told people privately that we had a G5 AT BEST roster last year. His goal was to literally just try to outscore everyone. He was disappointed it took the offense so long to gel. He has told a lot people that had our offense been operating at the beginning of the season how it was at the end we probably win 4 or 5 games. I mean do you guys realize we literally could not have full practices because we did not have enough bodies to give us looks.
Well, we just had a good HS recruiting class and portal class and Lebby is effectively on year one this coming season because of the poor shape of the program. We've invested in gameday and brought in help for a terrible DC for the sake of continuity.
But the BC screwed up the ticket ordering with a terrible timeframe. The BC could 17 up a wet dream. They're the worst group on this campus and they hold all the money now. They've held us back forever and will continue to do so. Ticket sales are abysmal this year because they took a terrible stance.
Which is why Selmon has spent the better part of 24 months getting rid of most of that dept. You're not wrong though, they are without a doubt the worst group on campus. They had multiple people in that dept that had ZERO CLUE how to do the job they were being paid high 5 figures and low 6 figures to do. It was embarassing.
And they still dropped the tickets on everyone right after the holidays with a very short frame of time to pay, after a big increase in cost as well. Say what you will, but that was another example of a terrible decision by them that is going to hurt football again. Selmon has to realize this isn't Oklahoma football. People aren't lined up to grab tickets and need a better payment option to afford it. I've shut down all giving over it and I'm not the only one.
What payment options would you suggest? I am simply just asking. Are you saying pay it in increments?
Yes, like it used to be. I can't come up with that money right after the holidays. I had to give up seats I've had for several years because they required too much money upfront this time and had a shorter payment schedule. Maybe I need to find a woman with a tax refund. I also like BI better for my donations but that died with the point system. Now they tell me what to pay instead of me telling them what I'm paying.
They know they messed up, because they called after the deadline to offer an extension. Well, you poorly planned this and hung me out so I can't do it now.
Last edited by Cooterpoot; 04-18-2025 at 09:59 AM.
I agree, and at the same time am saying the turnoff on giving knowing there is a small band of boosters and an some in the administration calling shots and they are really bad at it.
I love the university, but it does not mean I blindly give to it when they have bad influences for decisions involved.
The whole Banner Mstate is another example. The ugliest crap I have ever seen, and yet it somehow made it for this long. I know some people out of state that want to send their kids to MSU, and probably will happen. They are not alumni.
So I asked them their take on all our numerous logos. They all say, anything but that Banner Mstate. They said they intentionally buy any other MSU gear without it.
They love the baseball logos, and the flying M(love the academic history to it), and to some degree the old interlocking.
Last edited by Santiago; 04-18-2025 at 09:18 AM.
Yep. I’ve worked for the State of MS for almost 25 years and you see it at every level and in every department. How Ole Miss pulled themselves out of that mindset and quagmire should be studied and published. It has completely infected the Mississippi State Athletic Program. After last season, my small group of donors officially pulled our athletic program donations and moved them to education. (Which is also not great right now but don’t get me started). And that was before the BC ticket ordering fiasco. The whole things just a total crap show right now.
That’s well and good but you can’t expect people to drop $20k a year because “we promise we made changes and it’ll be different this time”. That kind of trust has to be rebuilt and the Cohen Crew absolute wrecked it. I mean, blew it up completely. It’s what happens when backwards thinking boosters are allowed to run things. They got what they wanted. And now we are where we are.
They have a forward thinking administration, fan base, and boosters. They get a message and all get behind that message. Whether academically, athletically, or socially.
We on the other hand tend to have a reactionary administration, fan base, and boosters. We're late to a lot of stuff and when we get there we have 3 different messages.
It starts at the top. Look I like Mark a lot. I think he likes Mississippi State and he wants what is best for it. I just think Mark is too political. He had political aspirations for a long time and I think it's hard to shake yourself of that. Boyce has only ever been in administration. From Tri County, MRA, Canton Academy, Holmes, and now Ole Miss. He knows how to play the administration game, but also knows that when decisions have to be made, you make them. They are paying you to make that decision. Not someone else. Mark on the other hand, was in politics until he took our job. He thinks you need to have consensus before making a decision and wants to please everyone. That's not possible at any level of educational administration and definitely not at the highest level.
Zac and Keith are a lot alike. They understand what it takes to win. Keith was handed wagyu by Bjork and told to make a steak. Zac was handed chicken shit by Cohen and told to make a steak. Cohen 17'd this athletic dept more than anyone will ever know.
Their fan base understands what it takes to win. Their $5-$500 dollar fans know that they're never going to have any influence over decision making. They give because they know that thousands others like them are giving and they know all those donations will add up and make a difference. Our $5-$500 fans want to have sit down dinners with Lebby, Jans, and Lemonis every other week so they can talk strategy. They want a whole lot for a little bit of giving. And if they can't have that they stop giving.
The last part is the boosters. For DECADES, their boosters have been aligned and have had one common goal, WIN. Our boosters on the other hand want to put their buddies on the staff so they can look cool at the country club with their "insider info". We have no common goal. Each person wants to be more important and thinks their voice has to be the loudest. There's no consistent message. Their boosters are also in line with who gives for what. They know who the football boosters are, the baseball boosters, and the basketball boosters and they don't deviate. We have one sport figured out like that, basketball. Zac is trying to get the other two settled.
All in All, they get it. And we don't. But Zac is trying to change that. Also, I've never been a big get rid of Keenum guy but after typing that out. I'm out on Keenum. And that sucks, because I like Mark but what is he doing to make us better? We're falling behind academically, we only recruit within a 3 hr circle of campus, and our athletic programs are either impressively average or downright bad. So what is he doing to combat that?
Last edited by StarkVegasSteve; 04-18-2025 at 10:58 AM.
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