Baseball Hot Board

[EdwardDrayton]

Mississippi State recruiting rankings according to Baseball America:
2025 - 5th
2024 - 18th
2023 - 7th
2022 - 9th
2021 - 10th

Talent isn't and hasn't been our issue.

Yeah, nice numbers. Our team is not talented.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah. Think we're going to have to let go a bit of this premise we have a bevy of talented players.

Upgrade the coaching and the players. Start with the coach now; whatever detrimental impact that will have short term, let's go ahead and get it behind us.

Agreed. A new coach is going to need to use the portal anyways so might as well give him a clean slate on it. I imagine we'd keep a few players but most would enter the portal if I had to guess. Who you keep will be dependent on who you hire.

[EdwardDrayton]

Agreed. A new coach is going to need to use the portal anyways so might as well give him a clean slate on it. I imagine we'd keep a few players but most would enter the portal if I had to guess. Who you keep will be dependent on who you hire.

^^^^^^^^

[KB21]

Yeah, nice numbers. Our team is not talented.

Yeah. BA, PG, and Collegiate Baseball are right about everyone else's recruits and are wrong about our recruits. Recruiting rankings appears to be big to some when it fits the narrative they want, but when it doesn't fit the narrative, suddenly the rankings are wrong. Those rankings are also based on who actually gets to campus.

The lowest rated class Mississippi State has had in recent memory is the 2017 class. That class was ranked 24th.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yeah. BA, PG, and Collegiate Baseball are right about everyone else's recruits and are wrong about our recruits. Recruiting rankings appears to be big to some when it fits the narrative they want, but when it doesn't fit the narrative, suddenly the rankings are wrong. Those rankings are also based on who actually gets to campus.

The lowest rated class Mississippi State has had in recent memory is the 2017 class. That class was ranked 24th.

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

Agreed. It's not all coaching. Some of it is evaluations and relying TOO much on analytics. I am not saying don't use analytics, not trying to be Tanner Allen, but I think we get enamored too much with the numbers these kids put up in prospect camps and showcases. I mean when is the last time you saw one of our coaches out at an actual game? It was probably Cohen's staff. I just think we've gone too far towards the analytics side, case and point no one on our team being able to go the other way.

[KB21]

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

Then why are some of those players who "don't have talent" proving their talent at the professional level now? KC Hunt with the Brewers. He was their minor league pitcher of the year. Andrew Walling with the Phillies, who couldn't get effective innings at Mississippi State. Jackson Fristoe was in the Arizona Fall League for the Yankees this fall. Eric Cerantola with the Rockies.

[KB21]

Agreed. It's not all coaching. Some of it is evaluations and relying TOO much on analytics. I am not saying don't use analytics, not trying to be Tanner Allen, but I think we get enamored too much with the numbers these kids put up in prospect camps and showcases. I mean when is the last time you saw one of our coaches out at an actual game? It was probably Cohen's staff. I just think we've gone too far towards the analytics side, case and point no one on our team being able to go the other way.

I don't think they use it enough. They clearly don't use analytics and modern player developmental technology the way Tennessee and Georgia do.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Then why are some of those players who "don't have talent" proving their talent at the professional level now? KC Hunt with the Brewers. He was their minor league pitcher of the year. Andrew Walling with the Phillies, who couldn't get effective innings at Mississippi State. Jackson Fristoe was in the Arizona Fall League for the Yankees this fall. Eric Cerantola with the Rockies.

All of those pitchers have one thing in common........Scott Foxhall.

[EdwardDrayton]

All of those pitchers have one thing in common........Scott Foxhall.

Ouch. That's a painful truth.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Ouch. That's a painful truth.

It's actually incredible we won a national championship with him as the PC. By the end of it we essentially had 4 pitchers. Bednar, Harding, Johnson, and Sims.

[KB21]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

[StarkVegasSteve]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

I'm fine with using them. Just use them effectively. We're obviously not doing that. Although it doesn't take analytics to tell me that Hunter Hines needs to use the whole field. I have a pretty good idea of that when the 3B is playing two steps from the second base bag and the SS is playing 2B.

[KB21]

I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

[KB21]

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

I will always believe that Andy threw away a gold mine. I don't know that I have ever seen a better coaching job than what he and that staff did in 2017 with all the arm injuries they had. That was a team that should have been bad, and they went 40-22 and to a super regional with 5 healthy arms on the entire staff.

[Homedawg]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

There's a place for analytics. But it's not the end all be all. He'll just a couple weeks back you were harping, using analytics, that Hines should be on the bench. While he did need a see to see. And he got it. You said it after that sit and continued after the Texas weekend. He's been our best hitter in sec play

[Homedawg]

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

Cann was highly overrated.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Cann was highly overrated.

Maybe he was, but he recruited at an elite level and that 17 team had complete buy in and belief.

[KB21]

There's a place for analytics. But it's not the end all be all. He'll just a couple weeks back you were harping, using analytics, that Hines should be on the bench. While he did need a see to see. And he got it. You said it after that sit and continued after the Texas weekend. He's been our best hitter in sec play

I question how long it will last, because we are looking at a very small sample size of him "getting it" finally. We have a much larger sample size of him not being an effective hitter.