One thing we can all agree

[Leroy Jenkins]

No matter how you think we got here, whether it was:

Arnett sucks
Players suck
Banner M
Wrong offensive philosophy
Endzone paint
Wrong defensive philosophy
Leach's fault
Keenum sucks
Recruiting sucks
Depth sucks
Dead Indians
Missed on portal-players evals, especially DBs
Need more time/reps
Starkville sucks
Strength staff sucks
Larry Templeton
Good ol' boys in the athletic department
Coordinators can't/won't adapt
DWS speakers/lights suck
Our NIL sucks
Rookie A.D.
White helmets
Wrong players getting too much/not enough PT

and so on, and so forth.....


The one thing we agree on, the football program is not good right now. Regardless of how we got here; here we are. So now what? What is the realistic (irrational message board) solution(s)? How long will it take? Is it weeks, is it Months, is it years?

[Maverick91]

It truly depends how much of this common fodder is true. If it’s just arnett sucks, that’s a pretty easy fix. If it is that we have puppet masters, idk if it ever will get fixed, they are the decision makers, why would the hire someone that is going to tell them to sit down, shut up, and enjoy the position you have but this is my team and you don’t have a say so in how it works.

Also, the roster does need work no matter what system we are running, whatever we do I would someone to come in and run an system on both sides of the ball that currently compliments our roster and year over year as we turn over our roster we can move to the type of systems he wants to run.

[Lord McBuckethead]

The only answer is NIL. Got to have players that are faster, bigger, more athletic, and smarter than everyone else. That means, we don?t only have to raise a ton of donations, but those donations have to be yearly, monthly, or weekly. And they have to be what aTm, Bama, UF and Georgia are getting plus some.

Now the issue is, we don?t have that many alumni.

Then we need a 100% fresh offensive and defensive coaching staff. Cause the good Ole Boy group sucks, has always sucked, and are made up of a bunch of people that has never won anything.

[Homedawg]

The good ole boys that haven't won anything? Turner and Hughes?? They are the only two that ever coached together that got brought in. Or Mc bath, mele and Brock?? They were leach holdovers??? Schmidt and arnett??? They worked together elsewhere??? People are acting like arnett went and hired 8 guys that Mullen had and that's our staff. Guess you have to type something. ....
Obviously, Hughes was a holdover as well but he's been one for the last 5 coaches so....

[R2Dawg]

No matter how you think we got here, whether it was:

Arnett sucks
Players suck
Banner M
Wrong offensive philosophy
Endzone paint
Wrong defensive philosophy
Leach's fault
Keenum sucks
Recruiting sucks
Depth sucks
Dead Indians
Missed on portal-players evals, especially DBs
Need more time/reps
Starkville sucks
Strength staff sucks
Larry Templeton
Good ol' boys in the athletic department
Coordinators can't/won't adapt
DWS speakers/lights suck
Our NIL sucks
Rookie A.D.
White helmets
Wrong players getting too much/not enough PT

and so on, and so forth.....


The one thing we agree on, the football program is not good right now. Regardless of how we got here; here we are. So now what? What is the realistic (irrational message board) solution(s)? How long will it take? Is it weeks, is it Months, is it years?

Great post Leroy and true. But wait there will be plenty on here railing about AR, Will, Leach and NIL etc. the list you just put out.

To answer your question. Simply put we can't keep doing the same thing the rest of the year. We must show ability to adapt, change and try something else since what we are doing is not working. That is what is depressing. We are not seeing much of that. I had high hopes on CZA. He said a lot of right things in fall camp but he is doing and saying a lot of wrong things now.

Kinda like in the movie Saving Private Ryan on Normandy beach. Where do we do now sir one of soldiers asked Tom Hanks. Anywhere but here he answered. We must do something to invoke change/hope. Something.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Well the current staff are not cutting it. The current players aren?t cutting it. The current scheme is so hard to teach our players, they can?t do it. I mean, pass blocking, too difficult. Run blocking, too difficult. Covering receivers, something they have done their entire lives?. Too difficult. DL getting pressure, nope. And I am talking about Even the two wins. Just not good.

At some point, maybe it?s the coaching staff, preparation, and personnel.

This looks to be a very hard transition, but a good coaching staff has a system planned out to get the players somewhat ready for the fall. A coaching staff understands how to make scheme changes to overcome personnel shortcomings. A coaching staff has to get the team better each week when they start off unprepared like we have.

It begins and ends with an inability to adapt.

[BlackSailsDawg]

It truly depends how much of this common fodder is true. If it’s just arnett sucks, that’s a pretty easy fix. If it is that we have puppet masters, idk if it ever will get fixed, they are the decision makers, why would the hire someone that is going to tell them to sit down, shut up, and enjoy the position you have but this is my team and you don’t have a say so in how it works.

Also, the roster does need work no matter what system we are running, whatever we do I would someone to come in and run an system on both sides of the ball that currently compliments our roster and year over year as we turn over our roster we can move to the type of systems he wants to run.

We will be the Auburn dumpster fire. This is what their good ole boys did. And it took down a program. FL is close to the same situation that's why the guy there now (a man beloved by Gene34) had no chance. They will find another coach at the end of the year too.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Well the current staff are not cutting it. The current players aren?t cutting it. The current scheme is so hard to teach our players, they can?t do it. I mean, pass blocking, too difficult. Run blocking, too difficult. Covering receivers, something they have done their entire lives?. Too difficult. DL getting pressure, nope. And I am talking about Even the two wins. Just not good.

At some point, maybe it?s the coaching staff, preparation, and personnel.

This looks to be a very hard transition, but a good coaching staff has a system planned out to get the players somewhat ready for the fall. A coaching staff understands how to make scheme changes to overcome personnel shortcomings. A coaching staff has to get the team better each week when they start off unprepared like we have.

It begins and ends with an inability to adapt.

Yes sir. The OL coach stated TONIGHT that is the case: We’ve got to continue to get better, targeting the right people.



Literally his words. A complete Spring, Summer, and 5 games in and they still don;t know who to block.
[/B]

[CadaverDawg]

Bottom line is this....

Arnett was never going to do things exactly like Leach. There was only 1 Leach. So anybody acting like Arnett is foolish for not keeping things the exact same as Leach, is being ridiculous bc it's not possible. And nobody forced Leach out...he died. So people acting like we got what we deserve...that's stupid too. Those that didn't like Leach's style (like me), sure as hell didn't want him dead, and DEFINITELY weren't asking for Arnett instead of him.

That being said, the buck stops with the head man. Arnett knows this. And I think he is trying to change things as best he can during the middle of an SEC slate. I truly believe that Barbay has a good scheme, but so far it has been tough to learn and hasn't been executed well...and Will Rogers isn't good at it. Rogers is an Air Raid only guy...and that's ok, but he should have transferred for his AND our benefit. We should be taking our lumps right now with a QB built for Barbay. But in their defense, they knew we had a ton of experience returning, so rather than throw away a season they were trying to make Will fit it. He doesn't, and they can't make it work, so in essence this season is gone.

Since the season is gone, and Arnett and Barbay's careers are riding on their adaptation....they need to go ahead and admit it's not working with the current personnel, and show that they are going to cut bait on the season in an attempt to save future seasons and recruiting. In my opinion, if they would make the switch to Wright or Parson, it would be a way of them showing "we tried to make it work with the vets, but we run too different of a scheme, so we have to just do what we got do". We would respect that so much more than continuing the agony of running Rogers back out there time and time again to fail. Hurts to watch.

As for the defense. I think Arnett needs to take over the Defensive play calling, and we either need to go with a bend but don't break style D, or bring the house while being less predictable with our LB'ers....but regardless it is going to take getting more speed on the field. We have got to forego talent and skill for speed at this point, bc we aren't losing on skill...we're losing bc we aren't even able to utilize skill bc we can't keep up. It's a shitty spot to be in, but we're here so we gotta do something.

I think Arnett still has people that aren't ready to totally throw him out....but most of those folks are on the fence and he's about to lose them. So he HAS to do something drastic, and he has to do it NOW. If I was in his shoes, nothing screams "I'm willing to try anything to turn this thing around" like benching a veteran QB for a young up and comer....so I'd probably start Mike Wright in a safe spot like this weekend, and immediately bring in Parson when we get a nice lead. That would inject some energy into the fan base (assuming our D can stop them and get us a cushion), and would be a way to generate some excitement into what is currently a dead situation.

If that doesn't work, you can always go back....but if nothing else it shows your willingness to try things, adapt, etc, and it may buy some good favor going forward. Bc I can tell you this, if we continue what we've been doing and finish 4-8 or 5-7 while watching 4 quarters of Rogers every weekend....Arnett and Barbay are toast. That's pretty much a fact at this point. So mix it up, what the hell do you have to lose?

[BlackSailsDawg]

That's where you all go with it. To frame a narrative nobody is or was asking for. Nobody on this entire board has ever stated we had to do it exactly like Leach did it. Nobody wanted that. What we wanted was the direction he was going and where some are. Better run game and more of it mixed with a top 10 passing attack. What we wanted, he knew because he stated it "We are not going to change things up much". Flat out lied.

He has not tried to change anything other than the complete offense. He's literally absent from the conversation.

The very coaching staff we have RIGHT NOW are telling you what we have been saying. The OL doesn't know who they are suppose to block. There is still miscommunication with WRS and TE. NONE of that was an issue before this staff.

But hey... Go after Rogers all you want even though the OC and OL is telling you different. Even though the footage is telling you different.

In short, this staff needs to be fired and replaced.

[CadaverDawg]

That's where you all go with it. To frame a narrative nobody is or was asking for. Nobody on this entire board has ever stated we had to do it exactly like Leach did it. Nobody wanted that. What we wanted was the direction he was going and where some are. Better run game and more of it mixed with a top 10 passing attack. What we wanted, he knew because he stated it "We are not going to change things up much". Flat out lied.

He has not tried to change anything other than the complete offense. He's literally absent from the conversation.

The very coaching staff we have RIGHT NOW are telling you what we have been saying. The OL doesn't know who they are suppose to block. There is still miscommunication with WRS and TE. NONE of that was an issue before this staff.

But hey... Go after Rogers all you want even though the OC and OL is telling you different. Even though the footage is telling you different.

In short, this staff needs to be fired and replaced.

Maybe Leach's system is the problem!! We weren't a good offense under Leach either! But one thing his system did, was teach players a completely foreign scheme and make them less prepared for the more common schemes. So we can either continue to cater to an air raid scheme that our coaches can't coach...or else we have to train these OL to block like they will be asked to block for in our current scheme. You may not like it, but it's where we are. And if we choose to go your route and just cave to the fact that they only know the air raid, then we will be in the same spot next year. Give it up, we aren't air raid anymore, and these coaches can't coach air raid. The season is lost and we are going to have to learn the new scheme, or else Arnett is fired and it's a moot point.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Maybe Leach's system is the problem!! We weren't a good offense under Leach either! But one thing his system did, was teach players a completely foreign scheme and make them less prepared for the more common schemes. So we can either continue to cater to an air raid scheme that our coaches can't coach...or else we have to train these OL to block like they will be asked to block for in our current scheme. You may not like it, but it's where we are. And if we choose to go your route and just cave to the fact that they only know the air raid, then we will be in the same spot next year. Give it up, we aren't air raid anymore, and these coaches can't coach air raid. The season is lost and we are going to have to learn the new scheme, or else Arnett is fired and it's a moot point.

Oh BS! We won 9 games and had a TOP 10 passing attack and all we needed was a better rushing attack and more of it. We have never produced or recruited the level we did at skill positions with Leach. Because of Leach, we have 6 WRs that are 4 star guys. etc etc.

[CadaverDawg]

Oh BS! We won 9 games and had a TOP 10 passing attack and all we needed was a better rushing attack and more of it. We have never produced or recruited the level we did at skill positions with Leach. Because of Leach, we have 6 WRs that are 4 star guys. etc etc.

Yawn. Our offense sucked under Leach. Just bc this offense sucks worse doesn't change the fact that Leach's sucked and the defense carried his ass. It's not even debatable.

The OP asked for actual solutions and I'm trying to stay on point. So I'm not ruining the thread arguing with you. Your solution is to resurrect Leach or have someone mimic him so yalls golden boy doesn't have to adapt to a real offense. Leach ran a unique style, Rogers was a system QB that fit that style. Leach is gone, and in turn so is Rogers ability to play QB at a D1 level. Is what it is. Let it freaking go.

[dawgday166]

Yawn. Our offense sucked under Leach. Just bc this offense sucks worse doesn't change the fact that Leach's sucked and the defense carried his ass. It's not even debatable.

The OP asked for actual solutions and I'm trying to stay on point. So I'm not ruining the thread arguing with you. Your solution is to resurrect Leach or have someone mimic him so yalls golden boy doesn't have to adapt to a real offense. Leach ran a unique style, Rogers was a system QB that fit that style. Leach is gone, and in turn so is Rogers ability to play QB at a D1 level. Is what it is. Let it freaking go.

It is debatable in 2021. Prediction Pain has proved previously that year outdid all Mullen's years except 2014.

Doesn't matter. It was the culture and the mindset. Leach was in his 3rd year and the 1st one can mostly be written off. He did better than most any coach not named Saban or Smart did from an extreme cellar situation.

We won 8 last year in regular season. How many times we done that? maybe 5, 7 or even 10 in close to a hundred years. But now, folks wanna give us back the same ****ing argument I'm saying right now.

The culture was good. Give it just a smidge of time to evolve. But noooo .. we should be like Alabama minus one year. Win the Natty in year 4. Dumbasses!!

[CadaverDawg]

It is debatable in 2021. Prediction Pain has proved previously that year outdid all Mullen's years except 2014.

Doesn't matter. It was the culture and the mindset. Leach was in his 3rd year and the 1st one can mostly be written off. He did better than most any coach not named Saban or Smart did from an extreme cellar situation.

We won 8 last year in regular season. How many times we done that? maybe 5, 7 or even 10 in close to a hundred years. But now, folks wanna give us back the same ****ing argument I'm saying right now.

The culture was good. Give it just a smidge of time to evolve. But noooo .. we should be like Alabama minus one year. Win the Natty in year 4. Dumbasses!!

Again, nobody is saying they preferred Arnett to Leach! Nobody wanted him dead! But everyone acting like the guy had us putting up 40 a game and lighting folks up are living in a fantasy land. Our offense was dreadful under Leach. Painful to watch. ESPECIALLY in SEC play. Did we have an occasional explosion....absolutely. But did we also have games where you could tell early on they had us figured out and we had to just sit back and watch us go 3 and out after 3 and out after 3 and out? Absolutely.

And I repeat...that doesn't mean we wanted the shit show we have now. The guy wasn't fired bc all of us were storming the AD office saying "WE WANT ZACH!". He died. And his system died with him. And Rogers success did too. Leach was a legend and led us to a good record last year....and thank goodness for Arnett's defense, or that record would have been 6-6.

[CaptainObvious]

Yawn. Our offense sucked under Leach. Just bc this offense sucks worse doesn't change the fact that Leach's sucked and the defense carried his ass. It's not even debatable.

The OP asked for actual solutions and I'm trying to stay on point. So I'm not ruining the thread arguing with you. Your solution is to resurrect Leach or have someone mimic him so yalls golden boy doesn't have to adapt to a real offense. Leach ran a unique style, Rogers was a system QB that fit that style. Leach is gone, and in turn so is Rogers ability to play QB at a D1 level. Is what it is. Let it freaking go.

Oh but there is a reverse to everything you just said. The reverse would have been: we have offensive players who were recruited, coached and position to run a unique style of offense, and ALL but one of those Coaches are still here as of December 2022. Let?s maintain status quo with this Miss coaches running that established offense with THIS group of returning experienced players in 2023, and start the rebuild in 2024 with a new QB, new Offense, new staff, new players in key positions.

We message board coaches May not be the smartest guys around. But we. Were here in 2018 and saw what wholesale revision will h an experienced team can lead to. Apparently Keenum and team all have dementia and can?t remember the second best defense since dirt was already on campus in 2018. Nope. Let?s totally change the offense that couldn?t even score enough to support one or the nations top defenses.

Our defense gets no help from Barbary?s offense.

[CadaverDawg]

Oh but there is a reverse to everything you just said. The reverse would have been: we have offensive players who were recruited, coached and position to run a unique style of offense, and ALL but one of those Coaches are still here as of December 2022. Let?s maintain status quo with this Miss coaches running that established offense with THIS group of returning experienced players in 2023, and start the rebuild in 2024 with a new QB, new Offense, new staff, new players in key positions.

We message board coaches May not be the smartest guys around. But we. Were here in 2018 and saw what wholesale revision will h an experienced team can lead to. Apparently Keenum and team all have dementia and can?t remember the second best defense since dirt was already on campus in 2018. Nope. Let?s totally change the offense that couldn?t even score enough to support one or the nations top defenses.

Our defense gets no help from Barbary?s offense.

All fair points. BUT WE DIDNT! So we can sit around and bitch about why we hired Arnett, OR we can discuss ways to fix it. Because guess what, we can't rewind time and get a mulligan. So it either gets fixed, or Arnett's gone. I hate that we're here, but I want to see the shit get fixed....or I want Zach out....but I sure as hell fire dont want to go back to a poor man's attempt at an Air Raid with Steve Spurrier Junior at the helm.

Bottom line, we can be better on offense than we are now, and we can be a hell of a lot better on offense than we were under Leach too. We should be striving for WAY better than Leach's offense and a hell of a lot better than the current one. So fix it, or get out...but don't go back to Air Raid, bc it was a stinker too.

[Really Clark?]

Our defense gets no help from Barbary?s offense.

Our offense hasn't been good and the defense trash but our defense is getting about the same help this year as last in conference games, so far. 20.3 this season and 21.9 last year in actual offensive points scored (removing the 4 defensive and special team scores in conference games last season). Lot of games left to go and we have to get better.

[dawgday166]

Again, nobody is saying they preferred Arnett to Leach! Nobody wanted him dead! But everyone acting like the guy had us putting up 40 a game and lighting folks up are living in a fantasy land. Our offense was dreadful under Leach. Painful to watch. ESPECIALLY in SEC play. Did we have an occasional explosion....absolutely. But did we also have games where you could tell early on they had us figured out and we had to just sit back and watch us go 3 and out after 3 and out after 3 and out? Absolutely.

And I repeat...that doesn't mean we wanted the shit show we have now. The guy wasn't fired bc all of us were storming the AD office saying "WE WANT ZACH!". He died. And his system died with him. And Rogers success did too. Leach was a legend and led us to a good record last year....and thank goodness for Arnett's defense, or that record would have been 6-6.

Our offense was good in '21 and 1st half of '22. I'm not arguing things might've need tweaking and I was probably the 1st one to call out Will on not allowing downfield routes to develop and dumping it off.

To me .. I was like "Dammit, Leach needs to fix that shit". But .. we're still winning games and we're tough and physical. Sherrill, Mullen, and Leach in my lifetime. Ballard briefly.

As Mr Football ... C34 himself, the saint of all football knowledge has basically said, we're MSU and we expect to be Bama!!

He's saying that now but he wasn't saying it when Leach was the coach.

ETA: When Leach was coach, C34 expected us to be as good as Bama. He expected Will to be as good as Bryce Young in 2021 .. when Will was playing really good but not behind Bama's 4.5* talented line.

[Maverick91]

Bottom line is this....

Arnett was never going to do things exactly like Leach. There was only 1 Leach. So anybody acting like Arnett is foolish for not keeping things the exact same as Leach, is being ridiculous bc it's not possible. And nobody forced Leach out...he died. So people acting like we got what we deserve...that's stupid too. Those that didn't like Leach's style (like me), sure as hell didn't want him dead, and DEFINITELY weren't asking for Arnett instead of him.

That being said, the buck stops with the head man. Arnett knows this. And I think he is trying to change things as best he can during the middle of an SEC slate. I truly believe that Barbay has a good scheme, but so far it has been tough to learn and hasn't been executed well...and Will Rogers isn't good at it. Rogers is an Air Raid only guy...and that's ok, but he should have transferred for his AND our benefit. We should be taking our lumps right now with a QB built for Barbay. But in their defense, they knew we had a ton of experience returning, so rather than throw away a season they were trying to make Will fit it. He doesn't, and they can't make it work, so in essence this season is gone.

Since the season is gone, and Arnett and Barbay's careers are riding on their adaptation....they need to go ahead and admit it's not working with the current personnel, and show that they are going to cut bait on the season in an attempt to save future seasons and recruiting. In my opinion, if they would make the switch to Wright or Parson, it would be a way of them showing "we tried to make it work with the vets, but we run too different of a scheme, so we have to just do what we got do". We would respect that so much more than continuing the agony of running Rogers back out there time and time again to fail. Hurts to watch.

As for the defense. I think Arnett needs to take over the Defensive play calling, and we either need to go with a bend but don't break style D, or bring the house while being less predictable with our LB'ers....but regardless it is going to take getting more speed on the field. We have got to forego talent and skill for speed at this point, bc we aren't losing on skill...we're losing bc we aren't even able to utilize skill bc we can't keep up. It's a shitty spot to be in, but we're here so we gotta do something.

I think Arnett still has people that aren't ready to totally throw him out....but most of those folks are on the fence and he's about to lose them. So he HAS to do something drastic, and he has to do it NOW. If I was in his shoes, nothing screams "I'm willing to try anything to turn this thing around" like benching a veteran QB for a young up and comer....so I'd probably start Mike Wright in a safe spot like this weekend, and immediately bring in Parson when we get a nice lead. That would inject some energy into the fan base (assuming our D can stop them and get us a cushion), and would be a way to generate some excitement into what is currently a dead situation.

If that doesn't work, you can always go back....but if nothing else it shows your willingness to try things, adapt, etc, and it may buy some good favor going forward. Bc I can tell you this, if we continue what we've been doing and finish 4-8 or 5-7 while watching 4 quarters of Rogers every weekend....Arnett and Barbay are toast. That's pretty much a fact at this point. So mix it up, what the hell do you have to lose?

Bravo! Yes! Couldnt have said it better! Have some rep!

IF IF IF IF Arnett did that this weekend it would turn my spirits around drastically.