I'm really liking the way we are trending with QB's

[Really Clark?]

No...I'm not saying its similar to the Croom O. .. but don't let that get in the way of your bs narrative.

Jackie was closer to what Croom ran than Barbay so it wasn't a narrative of mine, it was a false statement of yours for your narrative

[CoachT14]

Our PPG the last 3 years against Top 80 defenses:

2020: 13 PPG
2021: 25.9 PPG
2022: 24 PPG

Total PPG in 3 years: 20.9 PPG against top 80 defenses.

The sad part is that I believe the offense could be better with a modern look, but KB and Mo are making it hard to argue for it. Plays have been there to be made the last 3 years.

[Bubb Rubb]

So, tell me exactly what is different between Barbay's offense and McElwain's offense.

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

[Really Clark?]

You do realize that the talent disparity in the NFL isn't the same as the SEC right?

You realize that a lot of KB21 arguments and links of analytics were with NFL stats and opinions, correct?

[Coach34]

So, tell me exactly what is different between Barbay's offense and McElwain's offense.

What's different between Leach and Lincoln Riley's AR?

[CoachT14]

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

His understanding of football is purely through an analytics lens. There’s nothing wrong with that, he just doesn’t realize that going all in 1 way or the other (analytics - no analytics) is doomed to fail. As a coach, numbers are huge in helping me gauge certain things, but I also understand that each situation has to have a certain level of feel and understanding to work

[R2Dawg]

Well, yeah. If you have the mindset that you have to run the ball to win, which is a philosophy that has been proven false by analytics, then I can see why you were bored with an offense that passed it with volume.

If that is true then everyone would be just passing. If that is true then no one would have altered the true air raid - you know all those disciples. They changed for an obvious reason. If we were so good on O then why were we not #1 in SEC? If we were top O in league, then I would say stay with it, but we ain't.

[Bubb Rubb]

His understanding of football is purely through an analytics lens. There’s nothing wrong with that, he just doesn’t realize that going all in 1 way or the other (analytics - no analytics) is doomed to fail. As a coach, numbers are huge in helping me gauge certain things, but I also understand that each situation has to have a certain level of feel and understanding to work

Here's where it's flawed: He's taken a data point: 57% run last year, and he's added two things he's read from the internet: "Jim McElwain disciple" and "pro style offense" (even though the article where he read that, he left off the "balanced, attacking" part before it). Then he's used that to formulate an opinion: "Barbay runs Jim McElwain's run-heavy pro style offense." He doesn't take into account undeniable facts, like Barbay having coaching experience prior to working with McElwain, or his offense being different year by year depending on his personnel. He just went out and found a couple of data points and opinions to validate his narrative, which is that we need to be running the Leach air raid (which is an unintelligent take in and of itself). When he's cautioned not to get caught up in labels like "pro style" because this offense uses many different philosophical elements, his response is "nope, it's pro style, full stop."

Don't make excuses for him. He's an idiot and he's proving it with every subsequent post he makes on this topic.

[KB21]

Don't move the goalposts. You're the one that made the assertion. I asked you to define pro style. I'm sure you'll google the question and come up with some BS about tight end utilization, or WR splits, just like you did when you googled Barbay and read "Jim McElwain disciple," and took it to mean "he runs Jim McElwain's offense." Don't be lazy and don't change the debate. It's entertaining to watch, though.

I'm not the one being lazy. I'm not the one that believes Barbay just made up his own offense after working with McElwain for several years. I am the one that has gone back to look at what McElwain did at Fresno State, Alabama, Colorado State, and Florida and compared it to what Barbay has done at CMU (under McElwain I might add), and you know what. It's the exact same offense. Same pass concepts. Same zone based running game. Same base personnel packages. Same play calling terminology.

[Bubb Rubb]

I'm not the one being lazy. I'm not the one that believes Barbay just made up his own offense after working with McElwain for several years. I am the one that has gone back to look at what McElwain did at Fresno State, Alabama, Colorado State, and Florida and compared it to what Barbay has done at CMU (under McElwain I might add), and you know what. It's the exact same offense. Same pass concepts. Same zone based running game. Same base personnel packages. Same play calling terminology.

What, were you on all those coaching staffs? Otherwise you're talking out of your ass here.

[662dawg]

What's different between Leach and Lincoln Riley's AR?

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

[viverlibre]

And OM has an entrenched 5 star starter and another 5 star from lsu is willing to transfer in.

If Walker comes in, he's been guaranteed the starting job, that means Dart may be looking to transfer.

[CoachT14]

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

Ole Miss must have won since they ran it that much. Every time teams run it more than 32% of the time they lose. Or at least that's KB told me.

[KB21]

The difference is Riley ran the ball 48% of the time & Leach ran it 32% of the time.

While it seems like all they do is sling it around, Riley's offense is actually a balanced attack.. But I highly doubt that KB understands this.

And another thing I bet he doesn't realize is that Kittley also runs it 48% of the time and in fact against Ole Miss they ran it 55% of the time.

My guess is, you didn't watch Kittley's offenses at Houston Baptist or Western Kentucky.

[KB21]

[662dawg]

Ole Miss must have won since they ran it that much. Every time teams run it more than 32% of the time they lose. Or at least that's KB told me.

Ole miss did in fact get murdered that game.

[662dawg]

My guess is, you didn't watch Kittley's offenses at Houston Baptist or Western Kentucky.

I don't need to. He knew he had to run the ball more when he became a coordinator at a power 5 school & that's exactly what he did. You're making my point.

Barbay's offenses have been highly successful & he's one of the top OC's in the country.

[CoachT14]

Ole miss did in fact get murdered that game.

KB right now!

[Really Clark?]

If Walker comes in, he's been guaranteed the starting job, that means Dart may be looking to transfer.

Dart has to sit a year if he transfers again

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't need to. He knew he had to run the ball more when he became a coordinator at a power 5 school & that's exactly what he did. You're making my point.

Barbay's offenses have been highly successful & he's one of the top OC's in the country.

He's not one of the "top OCs in the country". He's just not. He wouldn't be at App State if that was the case. By that same token, he also isn't terrible. We're not going from Wide Open Air Raid to running Croom's version of the WC Offense. Barbay is a solid OC and we could've done worse. I expect that this year we'll tailor the offense to Will. Maybe a read option here or there and no designed QB runs. This offense will always be Pistol or shotgun 98% of the time. Once Will moves on, I do expect us to incorporate more read options and maybe some Veer and Shoot elements. He's not going to run McElwain's offense to a T. All that offense is is what Bama ran prior to opening it up and spreading the ball around. You can't win with that offense anymore.