Here's the Most Disappointing Thing About Will Rogers to me

[msstate7]

Pretty accurate post. I don't get the Clawson love either. If his conference record is as you state, that's pretty bad when you're in the ACC. And FWIW ... Mullen only had one in conference winning season. He had 2 or 3 break even seasons but only 1 winning season.

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

[dawgday166]

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

I'm not forgiving the performance. I've said Leach needs to chew on some coaches and players for the other night. I'm comparing Leach mostly to Mullen. And the comparisons are pretty damn close. Jackie set a standard, Croom destroyed it. Mullen built it back up, Moorhead destroyed it. Now it's Leach's turn and he needs some time. Changing out coaches every three years ain't gonna get us nowhere.

Clawson is ok but what makes him great. And if he comes here and does do even what Mullen did ... how much will he shop himself around at the end of the year? How long before he bolts to a blue blood too?

ETA: I will also add that games like the other night happen to every single team in this league not named Bama or GA. It's not like it's a once a decade type of thing. It's more like 10 times or better/season across the whole SEC. That's what playing in the SEC is. You take your auto losses to Bama & GA (and occasionally LSU) and everyone else fights it out for 2nd thru 7th in their respective divisions. And preseason predictions for those 12 slots are mostly bullshit.

[BlackSailsDawg]

Guess you guys think all schools are equal. WF has 15 bowls in their history; clawson is about to go to his 7th in a row. WF's last HC with a winning % was in the 1930s. Clawson also won a conference title his last year at bowling green before coming to WF.

ETA... I'll at least give credit to leach when I feel he deserves it. You and you blacksails will forgive any and every performance... incapable of seeing any wrong him in, proud parents

Clawson went to 3 of those bowls with a losing record in conference play. 2 more of those he was .500. In the ACC! Now you bring up bowling green. His last year was in his 5th year! He finished 32–31 at that stop. This also goes back to your refusal to give a HC time to build the program. I don't see you with the willingness to allow any coach at MSU to go that long while have a 2-10 season and a few 3-9 seasons here.

The ETA is just not true either. At all. Who excused anything? I started a thread here stating the LSU game was a group effort in trying to lose the game. I'm simply capable of understanding that a program is not built in 2 years after the total melt down that was JoMo. Even if Leach had followed Mullen, I have enough knowledge and seen enough history to understand, you don't build a program on the back of a revolving door.

Here is a theme that's being pointed out by you.

Beg Mullen back... Took 5 years to reach a high level and dropped off after that.
Hire Clawson... Took 5 years at BG to reach a 10 win season.
Hire Clawson... Took 6 years to reach a 10 win season... and still has a losing conference record..26–37

YET.. Fire Leach after 1 real season and 3 games in despite seeing the recruiting grades on offense increase and the production over all go up. And no, the Covid year doesn't count.

[Todd4State]

Clawson went to 3 of those bowls with a losing record in conference play. 2 more of those he was .500. In the ACC! Now you bring up bowling green. His last year was in his 5th year! He finished 32–31 at that stop. This also goes back to your refusal to give a HC time to build the program. I don't see you with the willingness to allow any coach at MSU to go that long while have a 2-10 season and a few 3-9 seasons here.

The ETA is just not true either. At all. Who excused anything? I started a thread here stating the LSU game was a group effort in trying to lose the game. I'm simply capable of understanding that a program is not built in 2 years after the total melt down that was JoMo. Even if Leach had followed Mullen, I have enough knowledge and seen enough history to understand, you don't build a program on the back of a revolving door.

Here is a theme that's being pointed out by you.

Beg Mullen back... Took 5 years to reach a high level and dropped off after that.
Hire Clawson... Took 5 years at BG to reach a 10 win season.
Hire Clawson... Took 6 years to reach a 10 win season... and still has a losing conference record..26–37

YET.. Fire Leach after 1 real season and 3 games in despite seeing the recruiting grades on offense increase and the production over all go up. And no, the Covid year doesn't count.

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

And let me quantify the 5-6 year thing to be perfectly clear- I'm talking a 9-10 win season. Which is in line with Dan when you consider that 2014 happened his sixth season at MSU.

[WhiskeyPirate]

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

4-4 seems to be Dans high water mark in the sec and Leach has already done that in really his first full season, I’m not sure where these expectations are coming from honestly.

[Todd4State]

4-4 seems to be Dans high water mark in the sec and Leach has already done that in really his first full season, I’m not sure where these expectations are coming from honestly.

Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.

It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.

Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.

[WhiskeyPirate]

Leach has close to as many "memorable" wins as well. LSU 2020, Texas A&M, Auburn, Kentucky, and someone pointed out to me today that NC State went 9-3.

It is a bit confusing to me that Dan seemed to get almost a complete pass throughout most of his tenure. Especially when he went job hunting and cost us Egg Bowls doing so. I seriously would have told him to take the Maryland job in 2015 because he obviously wants to leave MSU and can't focus on our team.

Dan made a living beating who he should beat vs Leach who may lose to Memphis but then he'll turn around and beat a couple of really good SEC teams. Leach gives us lower lows but also much higher highs.

I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.

Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.

[Todd4State]

I guess somehow running the ball and going 33-39 is some how vastly superior to a spread passing attack.

Conventional rushing offenses are actually more talent on talent and so you have a much lower ceiling at a school like State, especially with NIL factored in. This is why an unconventional attack gives you more bang for your buck.

For me it's more than that. Long term- we have to show that we can throw the ball. Football is headed in that direction. Do we have to be able to throw 50 times a game? No. But we do need to be functional when we do it.

MSU's general attitude about what "we can only do on offense" hurts us in recruiting big time. It has been a problem as long as I can remember. Leach is slowly changing that though. We're getting more and more 4 star receivers and QB's than even while maintaining our status quo on defense. And I'm really excited about our young o-line prospects. Hevesy and Dan really hurt the coaches that followed them and we've had to scramble to get JUCO's and transfers to fill in gaps. And that's hard to replenish as long as we neglected it. But that's changing too.

[BlackSailsDawg]

I mean the dude thinks that Jimbo Fisher is a good coach.

Pretty funny that Clawson should have been given time but Leach has to win immediately here.

People aren't going to want to hear this- but when you're rebuilding a program five-six years is a reasonable amount of time. That's not to say that we can't win now or shouldn't have played LSU better. What I am saying is there is waaaaayyyy too much knee jerk reaction when it comes to Leach. Every time we lose everyone has to throw in their brilliant idea about how some play or motion would make this offense unstoppable. The reality is for the mobile QB crowd- Leach has that in Robertson. And in time we will have that. And Parson is even more mobile. But Robertson isn't ready yet. Will is the best for now. Even though IMO he needs to be a little more consistent. In time Robertson will be ready. But our fans need to see the big picture here. Which is an impossible ask.

And let me quantify the 5-6 year thing to be perfectly clear- I'm talking a 9-10 win season. Which is in line with Dan when you consider that 2014 happened his sixth season at MSU.

Agreed! It's like there is no logic or reasoning. But when a person proclaims on a message board that he hates Leach and wants him gone, there will be no reasoning. \

But yep, every side of the ball sucked at some point in the game and they all were at horrible times in the game. We melted. Now let them grow and learn from it.