Women's bb team up to #5 in coaches poll. What Vic has done this season is

[smootness]

Vic is an elite Women?s basketball coach no doubt..
But it?s not like we are rolling 5 freshman out there
Carter -Soph
Mya - RS soph
Danberry 6th year Sr
Bibby - Jr
Jackson - fr

Wiggins - so
Morris - juco Jr
Espinoza - jr
And the 2 true freshman

That?s far from a young team

This is absolutely a young team. We have 2 major contributors who won't be around 2 years from now. And one of them is still hobbled.

[Ari Gold]

This is absolutely a young team. We have 2 major contributors who won't be around 2 years from now. And one of them is still hobbled.

I never said it was a veteran team. But having a 6th year Sr , a Soph, Rs Soph , and jr isn’t young. Yeah maybe they are young in game minutes ..

and again it’s women’s hoops.. it’s a totally different game .. you know when you are recruiting you will be getting them for 4 years unless they transfer... it’s a lot easier to build your roster and X and Os when you have that luxury.

Once again no knock on Vic.. he is an elite coach and one of Top 5 in women’s hoops.
Let’s just pump the brakes a little... it’s womens hoops..

[jdelta02]

Miss State women's basketball team is listed as #8 in the nation (NCAA Div 1) in forced turnovers per game. Forcing turnovers, getting out in transition, scoring off of turnovers.....big keys with this team. Even South Carolina was hard pressed to stay with this team under the heavy pressure and in transition game.

Again.....
Miss. State Women
#8 in NCAA Division 1 Women's Basketball in forced turnovers (21.84 per game).

[Quaoarsking]

Danberry is a FIFTH year senior. She graduated high school in 2015.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

We are a young team. You would expect more contributions from your older players. But let's check our roster.

Points
63.4% scored by freshmen and sophomores

Rebounds
67.4% from freshmen and sophomores

Assists
66.8% from freshmen and sophomores

Steals
59.5% from freshmen and sophomores

Blocks
73.7% from freshmen and sophomores

Minutes
64.4% from freshmen and sophomores

So our youngest 2 classes are outperforming our oldest two classes by a 2:1 ratio. Anyone who says we aren't a young team is an idiot.

[smootness]

and again it?s women?s hoops.. it?s a totally different game .. you know when you are recruiting you will be getting them for 4 years unless they transfer...

This is precisely why 3 of your 5 starters (and 6 of your top 9 contributors) being freshmen and sophomores is absolutely a young team.

[Captain Falcon]

I never said it was a veteran team. But having a 6th year Sr , a Soph, Rs Soph , and jr isn?t young. Yeah maybe they are young in game minutes ..

and again it?s women?s hoops.. it?s a totally different game .. you know when you are recruiting you will be getting them for 4 years unless they transfer... it?s a lot easier to build your roster and X and Os when you have that luxury.

Once again no knock on Vic.. he is an elite coach and one of Top 5 in women?s hoops.
Let?s just pump the brakes a little... it?s womens hoops..

Sorry you?re just wrong on this. Especially when you compare this group to how experienced the last three teams were. It?s absolutely a very young team. We have 12 active players and 8 are freshmen or sophomores and only one is a senior.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

This is precisely why 3 of your 5 starters (and 6 of your top 9 contributors) being freshmen and sophomores is absolutely a young team.

Does this count for the men too? 3 out of 5 starters underclassmen.

[KOdawg1]

it's womens hoops..

Okay and?

[smootness]

Does this count for the men too? 3 out of 5 starters underclassmen.

Not exactly, which is why that quote was in response to the specifics of women's basketball.

One of our sophomores is almost certainly leaving after this year, and another could. Our junior PG could decide to just leave, regardless of the NBA. Someone could easily transfer.

These things happen far more often in men's basketball than in women's. Our men's team is technically young, but as it relates to the sport, it will likely look quite a bit different next year, so this year is more important. In women's basketball, our team is both technically young and also young as it relates to the sport. So it should continue to improve relative to its competition over the next couple years. So this year can be seen as the ground floor, whereas in men's it is potentially more of a peak.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

I have no idea if it?s more or less common than the men?s game but MSU has had 2 or 3 in Vic?s tenure. I wouldn?t be surprised if this was the same for the top teams.

The only players gone for sure are carter and probably Perry. I would expect the rest back next season. If anyone does transfer it?s probably because they are tired of playing in front of an arena that?s a quarter full.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

A few things to address in this thread:

You can have a young men's team (kentucky and duke come to mind) and it be a very different situation than the women. Because in the men's game, those 2 teams mentioned will never become a veteran team because they have too many early entries to the NBA. You don't have that in the women's game. In the women's game, great freshmen do become great seniors. In the men's game, great freshmen become early entries into the NBA. So comparing young men's teams to young women's teams is not a good comparison.

Also, I do expect some transfers from our program. But it is generally those lacking playing time that leave, not the big contributors. Most players leave in search of more playing time.

[maroonmania]

Not exactly, which is why that quote was in response to the specifics of women's basketball.

One of our sophomores is almost certainly leaving after this year, and another could. Our junior PG could decide to just leave, regardless of the NBA. Someone could easily transfer.

These things happen far more often in men's basketball than in women's. Our men's team is technically young, but as it relates to the sport, it will likely look quite a bit different next year, so this year is more important. In women's basketball, our team is both technically young and also young as it relates to the sport. So it should continue to improve relative to its competition over the next couple years. So this year can be seen as the ground floor, whereas in men's it is potentially more of a peak.

Yep, you never know. We lost Breamber Scott from last year and I'm starting to think we could have really used her. Plus she would have been one of our best 3 point shooters this year.

[Ari Gold]

Does this count for the men too? 3 out of 5 starters underclassmen.

Boom .. there’s what I was going for. Glad to see someone figured out what I was doing there

[smootness]

I have no idea if it?s more or less common than the men?s game but MSU has had 2 or 3 in Vic?s tenure. I wouldn?t be surprised if this was the same for the top teams.

The only players gone for sure are carter and probably Perry. I would expect the rest back next season. If anyone does transfer it?s probably because they are tired of playing in front of an arena that?s a quarter full.

Schaefer is ahead of the curve in taking transfers in women's basketball. It's definitely not as common as in men's.

And exactly, we will likely lose Perry this year...who happens to be clearly our best player. So instead of him being a sophomore, for the purposes of how 'young' we are, you should consider him a senior. And you should probably consider Woodard a junior. So instead of starting a junior, senior, sophomore, sophomore, junior (which is technically young but still not as young as our women's team), you could basically think of it as being junior, senior, junior, senior, junior in terms of how long we're likely to have them. So yeah....not a young team. And even then, our PG could always leave. The one we had last year did.

[smootness]

Boom .. there’s what I was going for. Glad to see someone figured out what I was doing there

Then you did a terrible job of it. Because you cited the specifics of women's basketball that explain why our men's team is definitely not as young as our women's team...aside from the fact that our men's team isn't even technically as young as our women's team. You highlighted the argument against your stance.

If Rickea Jackson were likely to leave after this year, there would be far less talk about how young we are.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Of good to great upper class men on men?s basketball that develop over time. Comparing MSU to Kentucky and Duke is meaningless. We are never going to be them, period. Our fans shit on the men and give every benefit of the doubt to the women. Both teams are young, but that somehow doesn?t matter for the women and Vic, who by the way lost to a much lower ranked team in both the polls and player talent. They should have hustled more, or maybe the game has passed Vic by...who knows.

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Schaefer is ahead of the curve in taking transfers in women's basketball. It's definitely not as common as in men's.

And exactly, we will likely lose Perry this year...who happens to be clearly our best player. So instead of him being a sophomore, for the purposes of how 'young' we are, you should consider him a senior. And you should probably consider Woodard a junior. So instead of starting a junior, senior, sophomore, sophomore, junior (which is technically young but still not as young as our women's team), you could basically think of it as being junior, senior, junior, senior, junior in terms of how long we're likely to have them. So yeah....not a young team. And even then, our PG could always leave. The one we had last year did.

What are you talking about. Perry and Woodard have been playing basketball above a high school/ AAU level for one and a half years. NO DIFFERENT than the women sophomores. The simple fact that there is an actually demand for talented to players to leave for the pros as opposed to the women doesn?t somehow magically change their age.

[smootness]

What are you talking about. Perry and Woodard have been playing basketball above a high school/ AAU level for one and a half years. NO DIFFERENT than the women sophomores. The simple fact that there is an actually demand for talented to players to leave for the pros as opposed to the women doesn?t somehow magically change their age.

Because when people talk about how young a team is as a reason for fans to chill when criticizing, it's because over time, at least some of those problems will go away as the team gains more experience. Well, that is certainly more true for the women's team than for the men's team because the men's team won't be around as long. Also, the better teams we compete against on the men's side typically are also younger on average, since men don't stick around as long as women at the top. So a top women's team is likely to be older, on average, than a top men's team. So youth is more likely to be a legitimate excuse in women's basketball than men's. It's not that difficult.

[smootness]

Of good to great upper class men on men?s basketball that develop over time. Comparing MSU to Kentucky and Duke is meaningless. We are never going to be them, period. Our fans shit on the men and give every benefit of the doubt to the women. Both teams are young, but that somehow doesn?t matter for the women and Vic, who by the way lost to a much lower ranked team in both the polls and player talent. They should have hustled more, or maybe the game has passed Vic by...who knows.

It you really need me to spell out the difference in the two, then here goes.

First, our women's team, while young, will still be top 10 in the country after a loss. Our men's team, while 'young', is fighting to try to make the NCAA Tournament.

Second, our women's coach has made two national championship games in the last 3 years with this program. Doubting or questioning him seems extremely asinine. The same is not true of our men's coach. He has had success in the past, but it has been a long time, and he hasn't done it here.

Third, as I talked about in my last post, youth in the two sports isn't equivalent. 4 of our top 7 men's players are in their 1st or 2nd year (3 of those in their 2nd). The same is true of 6 of UK's top 8 players; 4 of LSU's top 5 players; 4 of OM's top 6 contributors; and 2 of Bama's top 3, 3 of their top 7. Auburn is a veteran team, but it's not like it's any sort of anomaly among our competition here. In women's basketball, that UK team we just lost to has 1 such player in their top 5 contributors and 2 in their top 8. SC is also a young team, but that's been noted by me numerous times. Our competition there tends to be older on average, yet we are even younger there than our men's team, not to mention that our players there will stick around longer than our men's team.

So our men's team is not as young relative to its competition or relative to how long they'll stick around. And the women's team is much better relative to its competition and with a coach who should be questioned less. How could someone look at these two teams and think they should be viewed similarly? One is worlds better right now and is far more likely to continue improving over the next couple years.