Hud Question

[Cooterpoot]

Since you loved Dan so much, get ready. Hud will win way more than Danny boy. There ain?t much doubt about that.

Ok...you must be his dad.

[Cooterpoot]

Except for the fact that the biggest reason why Byrne didn't go ahead and hire him as the HC in the first place was because he had no FBS experience at that time. And this also around the time that Raffo didn't get hired in part for the same reason. So, he leaves to get some head coaching experience and did well until they got on probation because of his friend who got caught in the crossfire of the Ole Miss investigation. Meanwhile he gets cleared by the NCAA, comes back to MSU and then goes to Austin Peay where he just led them to their first OVC championship since 1977.

You can't criticize someone for leaving to better themselves and then wanting to come back as the CEO when that was precisely the reason WHY they left in the first place. Just like Hugh Freeze left Ole Miss as an assistant for Arkansas State to get head coaching experience.

But hey- if we actually hired Dabo Swinney or Nick Saban you would find reasons why they aren't good enough for us either so it would be really nice if you actually threw some names out there instead of bitching about every coach anyone brings up.

He was our backup plan 10 years ago. Only because of the boosters pushing him and because our program hasn’t really grown to where we are today. We don’t have to settle for Hud now. The guy has been coaching for two decades and has never been a P5 head coach. That says a lot.

[CovertDawg]

Why a low ceiling?

He had 7 years at Lafayette, and yes they had a miserable program prior, but all he had to show for it was some New Orleans Bowls and vacated wins...and he had three losing seasons in a row to finish. We have people wanting to blame Joe for tutorgate yet want to give Hud a free pass for vacated wins.

[Cooterpoot]

I bet we would get back to 8 consistently pretty quickly though. With some 10 win seasons mixed in. And maybe actually get some upward trajectory with our football program.

Any decent coach can win 6+ games a year at State now. We set them up with a positive schedule and with the 12th game, it’s not that hard. Hud is such a false legend here for some reason. And no one has anything to support the fact he’d be a great SEC coach. He got fired at his only big school shot. And I constantly hear about ego on here in reference to Moorhead. Guess what, you haven’t seen ego until you get Hud here. Then you get the swapping blood deal and weight lifting competitions at ULL. I have no doubt he could win 6 games here. But so could the guys with a better job history. Hud is the cheap and easy route.

[ShotgunDawg]

He had 7 years at Lafayette, and yes they had a miserable program prior, but all he had to show for it was some New Orleans Bowls and vacated wins...and he had three losing seasons in a row to finish. We have people wanting to blame Joe for tutorgate yet want to give Hud a free pass for vacated wins.

So regardless of all his other championships, you're stuck on that and don't believe people can evolve and learn from their mistakes?

Do you think his downfall at ULL was more about his coaching ability or the NCAA investigation?

I don't think you're wrong for being concerned about that but you have to decide if you think it's a deal breaker

I don't.

[ShotgunDawg]

He was our backup plan 10 years ago. Only because of the boosters pushing him and because our program hasn’t really grown to where we are today. We don’t have to settle for Hud now. The guy has been coaching for two decades and has never been a P5 head coach. That says a lot.

So did Vick Schaffer. Was an assistant at A&M for goodness sakes.

It's valid point but there are numerous reasons people never get opportunities other than their ability.

[Coursesuper]

So did Vick Schaffer. Was an assistant at A&M for goodness sakes.

It's valid point but there are numerous reasons people never get opportunities other than their ability.

Vic failed at Sam Houston State before going to Arkansas then to A&M as an Asst. before striking gold with MSU.

[Pipedream]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%

I don't see the allure other than him being the easy choice and everyone loves the hometown boy story. Just get the best coach/fit available. If a guy leaves after 5 years that's okay. That means you got 5 good years out of an upwardly mobile employee. Everyone is so freaked out about having to hire someone. It's not that big of a deal. Happens every year. Napier is a guy on the way up. His team this season is the best in their school history and it's by a WIDE margin over one of Hud's teams. He can recruit (back to back number 1 classes in the Sun Belt) and runs the same power spread that everyone loves so much. Give me the guy on the way up over the guy that has the cinderella story. Narratives are for movies. Just get the best coach available. Don't overcomplicate it.

[ShotgunDawg]

Vic failed at Sam Houston State before going to Arkansas then to A&M as an Asst. before striking gold with MSU.

Well there you go. Even better. He failed at a mid major first.

Good coaches learn. Nobody knows everything the first. There is some trial and error in coaching.

My thing with Hud is that he wins everywhere he's gone. He's won championships

When people start winning at different schools, it tells me that they are really good at implementing a culture and plan. They aren't just living off past successes.

[ShotgunDawg]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%

This is so incredibly shallow and irrelevant that it's not even worth debating.

[Pipedream]

This is so incredibly shallow and irrelevant that it's not even worth debating.

So records are now irrelevant? You can't be successful without winning. That's literally the determining factor.

[RiverCityDawg]

So records are now irrelevant? You can't be successful without winning. That's literally the determining factor.

If you really believed that's all there is to it, you wouldn't be for firing Joe.

By the way, I'm with you on Napier over Hud, but think both could be successful here.

[Pipedream]

If you really believed that's all there is to it, you wouldn't be for firing Joe.

By the way, I'm with you on Napier over Hud, but think both could be successful here.

I don't, but it's the best barometer. I think incorporating the spread and cross referencing the w/l is the best way to track a coach because its performance with added perspective. Hud has only coached the power 5 for 2 years, both at State. He's never been a P5 coordinator. I just think his resume is a little short on diversity and big game/stakes experience. I think he's a fine coach, but there's easily 3,4,5 guys that should get hired in front of him.

[Johnson85]

Hud career winning % (on field): 66.9%
Moorhead career winning %: 68%

I don't see the allure other than him being the easy choice and everyone loves the hometown boy story. Just get the best coach/fit available. If a guy leaves after 5 years that's okay. That means you got 5 good years out of an upwardly mobile employee. Everyone is so freaked out about having to hire someone. It's not that big of a deal. Happens every year. Napier is a guy on the way up. His team this season is the best in their school history and it's by a WIDE margin over one of Hud's teams. He can recruit (back to back number 1 classes in the Sun Belt) and runs the same power spread that everyone loves so much. Give me the guy on the way up over the guy that has the cinderella story. Narratives are for movies. Just get the best coach available. Don't overcomplicate it.

Napier has had a decent season and a good season as head coach. That's not much of a track record. I'm not opposed to Napier. The way the market has evolved MSU is going to have to take a G5 coach with a short track record, a P5 coordinator, or a retread unless the stars align like they did with Howland. But Napier doesn't have much of a track record and it's foolish to think that two good seasons means he's a great coach. Lots of coaches have two good years and then flame out. Lot's of coaches have down years and go on to be really good. There is more luck to it than people like to admit. One Dak can completely change a coach's tenure since most tenures don't last that long now. A couple of team leaders that are leaders in the wrong direction, but not so bad that a coach can cut them loose, can derail a couple of seasons.

[Pipedream]

Napier has had a decent season and a good season as head coach. That's not much of a track record. I'm not opposed to Napier. The way the market has evolved MSU is going to have to take a G5 coach with a short track record, a P5 coordinator, or a retread unless the stars align like they did with Howland. But Napier doesn't have much of a track record and it's foolish to think that two good seasons means he's a great coach. Lots of coaches have two good years and then flame out. Lot's of coaches have down years and go on to be really good. There is more luck to it than people like to admit. One Dak can completely change a coach's tenure since most tenures don't last that long now. A couple of team leaders that are leaders in the wrong direction, but not so bad that a coach can cut them loose, can derail a couple of seasons.

I don't disagree with the general idea here, but this is the most interesting thing/stat about Napier-ULL has been in what is now called FBS since 2001. There's a metric called SRS which evaluates teams historical strength with 0 being a historically average team. Since that time, ULL has fielded 2 teams that were above 0 in SRS. One of them was Hud's 2012 team at +3.45, which at the time was the best team that program has ever had. ULL this year under Napier is currently at +10.4. Not only has he put together their best team ever, but this team is nearly 3X as good as the 2nd best team they've ever had. I find that pretty amazing and impressive.

[Johnson85]

I don't disagree with the general idea here, but this is the most interesting thing/stat about Napier-ULL has been in what is now called FBS since 2001. There's a metric called SRS which evaluates teams historical strength with 0 being a historically average team. Since that time, ULL has fielded 2 teams that were above 0 in SRS. One of them was Hud's 2012 team at +3.45, which at the time was the best team that program has ever had. ULL this year under Napier is currently at +10.4. Not only has he put together their best team ever, but this team is nearly 3X as good as the 2nd best team they've ever had. I find that pretty amazing and impressive.

That's a really good point in Napier's favor. I am just nervous about getting too excited about what a guy does two years and giving a guy a contract based on what might prove to be an outlier for him. Again, probably not something we're going to be able to avoid unless there is a Satterfield out there that hasn't come up yet or unless we're willing to go with a guy with a longer track record that also has some blemishes. Norvell has an unblemished four year track record but of course also took over a program that was humming along. Still, seems to have held steady or improved over 4 years, which is something. Outside of him, everybody is either potentially a flash in the pan, a coach with some significant blemishes, or a coach with no real blemish but that hasn't taken off where he is. But that's the nature of a coaching search if you're not a blue blood and to an extent even if you are.

[Pipedream]

That's a really good point in Napier's favor. I am just nervous about getting too excited about what a guy does two years and giving a guy a contract based on what might prove to be an outlier for him. Again, probably not something we're going to be able to avoid unless there is a Satterfield out there that hasn't come up yet or unless we're willing to go with a guy with a longer track record that also has some blemishes. Norvell has an unblemished four year track record but of course also took over a program that was humming along. Still, seems to have held steady or improved over 4 years, which is something. Outside of him, everybody is either potentially a flash in the pan, a coach with some significant blemishes, or a coach with no real blemish but that hasn't taken off where he is. But that's the nature of a coaching search if you're not a blue blood and to an extent even if you are.

The only drawbacks I have for Norvell are his defense, which during his tenure has been downright bad-78th avg ppg/60th avg ypp and whatever skeletons he has in the closet of his personal life. His recruiting probably isn't as strong as Napiers. Napiers defense in year 1 was horrendous, but they're quite good this year-14th in ppg, 35 in ypp. Full disclosure, Norvells 19 D is by far his best-they're 48th in ppg and 33rd ypp-so there's been some improvement there.

[AROB44]

Mullen treated him poorly because Byrne hired him. Mullen felt threatened by him. Always felt like his possible successor was working for him.

Actually, this makes the most sense.

[DelBocaVista]

In early October, I mentioned Hud as a possible replacement to Joe and most thought that was a crazy idea. On Friday, we will see who was crazy.

As it was said in "The Wire", we all have a role to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLa5Bfw2cnA

[Really Clark?]

In early October, I mentioned Hud as a possible replacement to Joe and most thought that was a crazy idea. On Friday, we will see who was crazy.

As it was said in "The Wire", we all have a role to play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLa5Bfw2cnA

You mentioned it where?