Vic without a dominant player

[Sparrows2]

If you think coaching and development didn't make T great/dominant, then what did? She was not that way pre Vic/johnnie

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn’t making anyone great or dominant

[Really Clark?]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn?t making anyone great or dominant

Without Earl Woods (for good or ill) you don?t have Tiger?s success. In fact I would say it?s a much smaller percentage of great athletes who are great solely from within. Yes they have to have the make up with in themselves but it is a lot smaller percentage of players that it comes strictly from within without an external person developing or pushing or driving them also to be great.

[Sparrows2]

Without Earl Woods (for good or ill) you don?t have Tiger?s success. In fact I would say it?s a much smaller percentage of great athletes who are great solely from within. Yes they have to have the make up with in themselves but it is a lot smaller percentage of players that it comes strictly from within without an external person developing or pushing or driving them also to be great.

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

[confucius say]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn?t making anyone great or dominant

Answer the question. Why did she become dominant between ages 20 and 22? The only variable added to her basketball life was coaching, both physical and mental.

[Sparrows2]

Answer the question. Why did she become dominant between ages 20 and 22? The only variable added to her basketball life was coaching, both physical and mental.

No you answer, there is a 5 star guard that has been on the bench for two years why hasn’t Vic made her great?
He has been too busy with T?
People mature at different rates and at different times. If you could MAKE someone great wouldn’t you do it all the time?

[confucius say]

No you answer, there is a 5 star guard that has been on the bench for two years why hasn’t Vic made her great?
He has been too busy with T?
People mature at different rates and at different times. If you could MAKE someone great wouldn’t you do it all the time?

You can't make someone great without them having the potential to be great, no doubt. A coach could work with me every day and I would never be great.

Is your point that being great is solely a result of the player and coaching plays no part in it? Or that the player herself/himself is the primary reason he/she becomes great?

[Really Clark?]

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

ETA. If you don’t think Earl Woods drove a lot of what help make Tiger great in his early years, then you are disagreeing with Tiger himself. Yes, it all has to fit from within and from external but his father helped shape a lot of what Tiger was able to achieve.

You are just wrong. Spending some time actually coaching athletes, teaching children, etc. The vast differences in their personalities, psyche, not mention actual ability they are born with. The differences are just too great. You just can’t be more wrong. And if money is the only motivation...why is everyone not rich? Lot of ways to make money but thinking that is what an athlete needs to push themselves toward greatness without anyone else coaching, mentoring, pushing them...capitalism is the only driving factor? Goodness that’s incorrect. And you don’t think coaches at this level don’t get paid a lot already?

[Sparrows2]

You can't make someone great without them having the potential to be great, no doubt. A coach could work with me every day and I would never be great.

Is your point that being great is solely a result of the player and coaching plays no part in it? Or that the player herself/himself is the primary reason he/she becomes great?

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

[confucius say]

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

I don't think anybody on here would disagree that the player is the primary reason he/she becomes great.

I think the only disagreement is that, in your previous posts, you seem adamant that a coach plays no part, or only a marginal part, in a player becoming great. That may be true sometimes, but would vary for each player depending on his/her circumstances.

[Really Clark?]

The player is the primary reason they are great. There is no “special sauce “ coaching involved. This should be unspeakably obvious because if it was that special touch by Vic and johnnie than every player they coached would be dominant. Good teachers get the most out of their students they don’t put something there that was never there to begin with

So by that logic (which I do agree that the player/student has to put in the work...there is no question about that) but the flip side of that logic is that there are no good teachers/coaches because they don’t get ALL of the students to greatness. Is that what you think? That because not all of the players are dominate then the coach is not good? That because all of the students are not carrying a 4.0 in a class then that teacher is bad?

[basedog]

Coach Schaefer has stated many times that he thinks power forward is J Carter?s best position. I?m sure it will depend on how much P Taylor develops and depth in the post. If we are getting a grad transfer I?d hope it?s a post player. That or we could rotate Bibby back down to power forward when we need to rest P Taylor or J Carter.

I could see Carter at the 4 spot, not sure how good her mid range shooting is but if Taylor is the answer at center we will or could be strong in the middle on defense I hope. Not sure about our perimeter quickness although Bibby, Scott and hunter can shoot the 3's.

[Homedawg]

First thank you for mentioning Johnnie, I think Vic would appreciate that
Second, do you imagine Tiger Woods sprang from the womb knowing how to play golf or did he have a teacher?
Did Da Vinci know how to paint as an infant?
Everyone has teachers and Vic is an excellent teacher, talent evaluator and recruiter
But he isn’t making anyone great or dominant

I'd say he sprang from the womb w God given taken yes. Now he needed instruction to make him his best but I could have coached him and he would have been a great golfer. Maybe not the best ever but great.

[confucius say]

I'd say he sprang from the womb w God given taken yes. Now he needed instruction to make him his best but I could have coached him and he would have been a great golfer. Maybe not the best ever but great.

A lot of times with phenomenal talent it is not the coaching of x and o as much as it is coaching the mental aspect and the drive needed to be great

[preachermatt83]

This is a terrible post with absolutely zero anything to back it up

[smootness]

1st not just no but hell no. The only evidence I need is good old American capitalism
In professional sports the athlete gets paid more. If the coach could create greatness they would get paid more. After all which is more valuable a fish or knowing how to fish?
2nd it’s thinking like in this thread that deified Polk and ruined him for MSU

Why does the coach get paid anything at all?

[Michael Milken]

Vic is a good coach but the last 3 years he has had a dominant player
Victoria than T. One year we had two and probably should have won it all.

The point is it ain?t coaching its players

I don?t think we have a dominant player on the roster
May have to settle for a few steps back for the next few years

You say that like we have less talent coming back....

On next years roster

5*'s
Myah Taylor
JESSIKA CARTER
Jackson


4*'s
Wiggins
Promise Taylor
Tate
hemingway
Young

3*
Scott

FYI
Holmes, Howard were a 3*'s
Danberry and T were a 5*'s

we lose 2 3*'s and replace both 5*'s we lost.

I think Vic will be fine

[Dawg2003]

Don't forget AEH was a 5 star.