Article, linked at the lake, summarizes 2 good points about Mullen and our fans......

[blacklistedbully]

..I've ever read here & that's saying something:



You always post cynical crap that downplays any accomplishment Mullen & this team may achieve (you just don't usually write a novel in expressing it).

The UPIg win & The OM win were miraculous achievements that pulled our football program out of the shit pile, placed MUllen back in good standing with the fanbase, & united the fanbase which was severely fractured when we were 4-6.

If you can't appreciate what has transpired concerning MSU football over the last 3 weeks, & insist on knocking it by writing all the negative crap you always post here, then take your ass over to sixpackspeak.com. They love your style of "journalism."

Easily topped by your asinine post. You're probably just another one of those who feels like anybody who doesn't agree with you is just wrong and should not feel free to express their opinion on this board.

And how laughable that you want to criticize my "style of journalism", given I am not, nor have I ever been a journalist. Haven't claimed to be one either. But what I do have is a valid opinion I am entitled to, the freedom to express it, and the common decency to "respectfully disagree" with others who differ, but are not disrespectful to me.

Another failure of your post is the fact that you don't seem to realize there are a large percentage of MSU fans who feel exactly as I do. They are not "bad fans", "closet rebels", "f*cking idiots", etc for having this opinion.

If you truly want to have a civil discussion on the matter, drop the holier-than-though, I'm-a-better-fan-than-you horseshit and counter the points I made with reason, rather than insult.

Oh, and I didn't start posting negative until I saw Dan once again running Perk between the tackles over & over, and mis-managing the clock as he did last year, and he kept running Bell out there. Before that, I was one of the most positive of our fans. I thought we had a good shot at beating OSU, Auburn, LSU, SCar, Arky & OM to go along with the softer part of our schedule, including UK. I truly thought and posted that we'd win 4 or 5 of those games to win 9 games. I got ridiculed then for being too positive, and should go over to Genes Page. But the truth is, if not for Dan shitting the bed vs Auburn, we would have won at least 3 of those, with the SCar game a loss we flat out gave away with t/o's.

[Pollodawg]

Food for thought: Muschamp let UF go 4-8. That's the University of Florida, folks. They're loaded. Mullen has never let us have a season like that, and we are not nearly as "stacked" as they are. If UF can have a season like that with the wrong coach in place. Any team can. But we haven't. Mullen has made sure that we haven't taken a step back like that. For that alone, the man deserved credit.

[blacklistedbully]

Food for thought: Muschamp let UF go 4-8. That's the University of Florida, folks. They're loaded. Mullen has never let us have a season like that, and we are not nearly as "stacked" as they are. If UF can have a season like that with the wrong coach in place. Any team can. But we haven't. Mullen has made sure that we haven't taken a step back like that. For that alone, the man deserved credit.

I agree that Dan deserves a lot of credit for many positive things. I've listed them on this board as well. But he also deserves criticism for his failings. We need to consider all so we can make informed judgments. The things I feel he's done on the negative side are things that concern me as a fan going forward. I question his judgment, and that's not a good thing for a HC in the SEC. There is so little margin for error that we just can't afford it from our HC.

Like others, I do think next year could be special, in part because the personnel we have fit what Dan wants to do offensively. Round pegs in round holes. I hope & pray he is open-minded enough to learn from his mistakes, and creative enough to improve his game-day play-calling when he has exactly the kind of players he needs in the right positions.

[tcdog70]

Ok, I was trying to play nice, but since you insist on being a complete, bumbling moronic jackass, I'll play along.

It's losers like you that can't win a debate on merits that start the "personal attack" BS. You think it hides your lack of intelligence, when in reality, it highlights it. You just aren't competent enough to do it civilly, so out pour the "f*cking idiot's", "you're dumb", "you're stupid", juvenile antics.

I never said TR or Perk were chokers. I did infer Bell is a choker. TR is a matter of Dan trying to force a square peg into a round hole, combined with a guy (TR) who has great character and leadership qualities, but he also continued to struggle on the field by being too slow on his progressions and not throwing to targets before their break. I think TR got frustrated with being a non-running QB playing in a system that requires the QB to be a real running threat. I think he sometimes tried too hard to prove he could succeed in that system, by "hanging in tough" willing to take the hit, but giving up crucial sacks, or scrambling for little-to-no-gain. Perk is another high-character, leader-type, but for as much as I loved the guy, he was not at all effective running the ball between the tackles, yet that is how Mullen mostly used him. I would have loved to see a lot more of Perk in the slot, or possibly optioning Perk on the edges with Dak as QB. This is what I meant by Dan not putting the right guys in position to succeed. TR throwing for a bunch of yards is not what I meant by succeed if those 70 yards he got on a drive are negated because he took a sack on 3rd down that pushed us back out of FG range.

"Just shut up about the kicking stuff. You look dumb." What a well-thought-out, intelligent reply to the facts I gave you. I may "look dumb" to you, but you, sir are certifiably dumb.

Arky. You ridiculous moron. Home field advantage is worth about 3 points. Some Arky scores:

52-0
52-7
20 point loss to a badly struggling UF.
They scored a lot on TAMU. Who didn't?
Of their 9 losses, only 3 were close. 2 of those were us & Rutgers, both teams who have struggled this year despite being bowl-bound.

LSU is good, but inconsistent. There is simply no way you can compare their effort versus us to their effort over OM. Ironically, the LSU game we played was one of the more impressive efforts until the wheels came off the wagon late. But don't accuse me of saying something I didn't say. It just further proves what a complete imbecile you are. Ole Miss was overrated this year. Do you really want to argue that point??

You're either drunk, incompetent or both if you somehow get from my statement that I'm "contradicting myself", That statement is just so over-the-top stupid that there isn't even an opportunity to point out it's flaw. It's that disconnected and useless.

I've been a rabid fan since the early 80s, and have only criticized our team when I feel it's honest & justified. I do it on message boards like this much the same as I would at a party, just casual conversation & debate. Debate I keep respectful until some moron like you takes it in another direction. You see, intelligent, decent people can disagree respectfully. Assholes like you don't seem capable. In my experience that's more often than not a sign that the asshole-in-question (you) is self-aware enough to know he's a bit of a dumbass, therefore needs to mask his inefficiencies in loud, boastful talk and/or insults. What makes this even funnier is I got accused by other fans of being "too optimistic" earlier in the season. You want to accuse me of "running down our program" and "never being satisfied", yet I was absolutely thrilled with our program & Mullen until I saw what we did last year, AND followed it up with this year.

Last year, I was defending Dan & staff during our win streak over soft teams by saying & believing Dan was just being conservative so he wouldn't show his hand too early to the good teams. That turned out to not be true. I started getting frustrated then. But coming into this season, I was again optimistic, more than most because I didn't think there was any way Mullen would continue to roll with TR at QB, Perk as the sole Rb, and running Perk between the tackles over & over & over again. I convinced myself that there was simply no way Dan could review what happened in the last half of last year, AND DO THE SAME THING AGAIN! But he did, and more. He added the Bell debacle to that shitastic formula.

THAT, more than anything is why I am frustrated with Dan. Because he will take something that has failed repeatedly, rarely ever succeeding, and run it again & again, almost as if he's thinking to himself, "It'll work this time because there's no way they'll expect me to dial that shit up again! I'll catch 'em by surprise."

Nice, I agree with all you said, as does a lot of Bulldogs. Dan is Croom like hardheaded. A third of our game (special teams) are maybe the worst in the SEC. Dan is terrible in the RedZone, especially when he doesn't have Dak to just run over the defense. I guess we can hope Dan will wake up and fix the shit most of Us can see rather easily.

[ckDOG]

This is a fun thread.

First, Mullen is a good coach. He's an exceptional evaluator of talent and develops players well. Our talent level and depth are light years ahead of where we were 5 yrs ago. We are a much better program now.

Second, it is easier to get to a bowl game. There's an arse load of post season games. More than there ever have been. Simply making a bowl game isn't the same indicator of successful seasons as it used to be. That said, they are fun and I'm glad we go to them. Having this opinion doesn't mean you think Dan sucks. It just means you aren't going to anoint him the second coming of the Bear because of it.

Third, the TR/LP usage was confusing to me as well, but the more I think about it the more I believe Mullen was simply being loyal to talented players that gambled on playing for Mullen when he was a green HC. We know where Mullen wants to take the offense by the type of players we are bringing in on offense. Mullen didn't have the luxury of recruiting to system in year 1 and went with best available. I think he wanted to give these guys every possible chance to succeed even if they didn't fit in exactly with his preferred philosophy. In hindsight, it's understandable and I respect it. Going forward, I think we will see more of a "produce now or sit" mentality as we have had several years to recruit to need and philosophy.

Finally, I think the best thing we see with Mullen is the stabilizing effect on the program. We haven't earned a "giant killer" reputation but we are playing consistently solid ball by most programs standards and certainly MSU standards. This year, there was only one game I thought we had no chance to win (Bama) heading into it and we still competed well. We aren't getting the upsets that we all want, but we are getting damn close. We will get there as Mullen gets more experience.

[blacklistedbully]

This is a fun thread.

First, Mullen is a good coach. He's an exceptional evaluator of talent and develops players well. Our talent level and depth are light years ahead of where we were 5 yrs ago. We are a much better program now.

Second, it is easier to get to a bowl game. There's an arse load of post season games. More than there ever have been. Simply making a bowl game isn't the same indicator of successful seasons as it used to be. That said, they are fun and I'm glad we go to them. Having this opinion doesn't mean you think Dan sucks. It just means you aren't going to anoint him the second coming of the Bear because of it.

Third, the TR/LP usage was confusing to me as well, but the more I think about it the more I believe Mullen was simply being loyal to talented players that gambled on playing for Mullen when he was a green HC. We know where Mullen wants to take the offense by the type of players we are bringing in on offense. Mullen didn't have the luxury of recruiting to system in year 1 and went with best available. I think he wanted to give these guys every possible chance to succeed even if they didn't fit in exactly with his preferred philosophy. In hindsight, it's understandable and I respect it. Going forward, I think we will see more of a "produce now or sit" mentality as we have had several years to recruit to need and philosophy.

Finally, I think the best thing we see with Mullen is the stabilizing effect on the program. We haven't earned a "giant killer" reputation but we are playing consistently solid ball by most programs standards and certainly MSU standards. This year, there was only one game I thought we had no chance to win (Bama) heading into it and we still competed well. We aren't getting the upsets that we all want, but we are getting damn close. We will get there as Mullen gets more experience.

Now this is how to make a reasoned, respectful counter. Great post, ckDOG! It does make me feel a little more hopeful about Dan. Still have my concerns about clock-management and stubborness, including with play-calling, but I have to hope Dan improves markedly as he enters his 6th season as HC.

[Goat Holder]

Ok, I was trying to play nice, but since you insist on being a complete, bumbling moronic jackass, I'll play along.

It's losers like you that can't win a debate on merits that start the "personal attack" BS. You think it hides your lack of intelligence, when in reality, it highlights it. You just aren't competent enough to do it civilly, so out pour the "f*cking idiot's", "you're dumb", "you're stupid", juvenile antics.

Uhh, sort of like you just did? I know you are but what am I? Save that crap, pal.

I never said TR or Perk were chokers. I did infer Bell is a choker. TR is a matter of Dan trying to force a square peg into a round hole, combined with a guy (TR) who has great character and leadership qualities, but he also continued to struggle on the field by being too slow on his progressions and not throwing to targets before their break. I think TR got frustrated with being a non-running QB playing in a system that requires the QB to be a real running threat. I think he sometimes tried too hard to prove he could succeed in that system, by "hanging in tough" willing to take the hit, but giving up crucial sacks, or scrambling for little-to-no-gain. Perk is another high-character, leader-type, but for as much as I loved the guy, he was not at all effective running the ball between the tackles, yet that is how Mullen mostly used him. I would have loved to see a lot more of Perk in the slot, or possibly optioning Perk on the edges with Dak as QB. This is what I meant by Dan not putting the right guys in position to succeed. TR throwing for a bunch of yards is not what I meant by succeed if those 70 yards he got on a drive are negated because he took a sack on 3rd down that pushed us back out of FG range.

Again, we had nobody else. It's that simple. You do look dumb bitching about Bell. If you want to criticize Mullen for recruiting bad kickers, by all means do it. But that's not what you did. You ignorantly chose to criticize him for not playing the backup, who is always a savior at MSU.

Arky. You ridiculous moron. Home field advantage is worth about 3 points. Some Arky scores:

52-0
52-7
20 point loss to a badly struggling UF.
They scored a lot on TAMU. Who didn't?
Of their 9 losses, only 3 were close. 2 of those were us & Rutgers, both teams who have struggled this year despite being bowl-bound.

Keep cherry-picking to fit your useless argument. I already showed why Arkansas was a tough team. Add to that the fact that it was an SEC away game stuck between our two biggest rivals.

LSU is good, but inconsistent. There is simply no way you can compare their effort versus us to their effort over OM. Ironically, the LSU game we played was one of the more impressive efforts until the wheels came off the wagon late. But don't accuse me of saying something I didn't say. It just further proves what a complete imbecile you are. Ole Miss was overrated this year. Do you really want to argue that point??

Ole Miss was and is a good team, and we beat them. You'll be the idiot next year saying that we beat nobody good in 2013, to try and talk shit about Mullen.

You're either drunk, incompetent or both if you somehow get from my statement that I'm "contradicting myself", That statement is just so over-the-top stupid that there isn't even an opportunity to point out it's flaw. It's that disconnected and useless.

You just all the losses like Maine that we have in our history, then say we should always expect to beat them teams and should not be appreciative when we do. Contradiction.

I've been a rabid fan since the early 80s, and have only criticized our team when I feel it's honest & justified. I do it on message boards like this much the same as I would at a party, just casual conversation & debate. Debate I keep respectful until some moron like you takes it in another direction. You see, intelligent, decent people can disagree respectfully. Assholes like you don't seem capable. In my experience that's more often than not a sign that the asshole-in-question (you) is self-aware enough to know he's a bit of a dumbass, therefore needs to mask his inefficiencies in loud, boastful talk and/or insults. What makes this even funnier is I got accused by other fans of being "too optimistic" earlier in the season. You want to accuse me of "running down our program" and "never being satisfied", yet I was absolutely thrilled with our program & Mullen until I saw what we did last year, AND followed it up with this year.

You mad, brah?

Last year, I was defending Dan & staff during our win streak over soft teams by saying & believing Dan was just being conservative so he wouldn't show his hand too early to the good teams. That turned out to not be true. I started getting frustrated then. But coming into this season, I was again optimistic, more than most because I didn't think there was any way Mullen would continue to roll with TR at QB, Perk as the sole Rb, and running Perk between the tackles over & over & over again. I convinced myself that there was simply no way Dan could review what happened in the last half of last year, AND DO THE SAME THING AGAIN! But he did, and more. He added the Bell debacle to that shitastic formula.

The answer is, he just didn't have the players yet. The end. It's none of the nonsense you spew. Do you realize how stupid you sound? There you go with the Devon Bell stuff again.

THAT, more than anything is why I am frustrated with Dan. Because he will take something that has failed repeatedly, rarely ever succeeding, and run it again & again, almost as if he's thinking to himself, "It'll work this time because there's no way they'll expect me to dial that shit up again! I'll catch 'em by surprise."

I hate to be cliche, but I'd just love to see some of our know-it-all fans try and coach a football team? And you say you're an athlete? Well I do not believe you. You seem like a talker, not a walker. Just my opinion.

[smootness]

This thread blows.

[FISHDAWG]

bravo ... if you dont believe this just go back and re-watch the recorded games like I have been doing and see the glaring mistakes and the calls that just make you shake your head ... I understand DM has been better than most coaches we have had in the past, not taking that away from him, I also understand his accomplishments ... but there are those that just haven't seen enough yet to crown him the sacred saint of MSU football ... I'm one of them

[PMDawg2]

Now this is how to make a reasoned, respectful counter. Great post, ckDOG! It does make me feel a little more hopeful about Dan. Still have my concerns about clock-management and stubborness, including with play-calling, but I have to hope Dan improves markedly as he enters his 6th season as HC.

Exactly. Two people who get it. Dan has many positives, but he's not perfect and should not be above reproach. He has flaws and weaknesses. Some serious. We should be able to point those out and discuss them intelligently. Sadly, this board does not allow it. These days, if you don't think Dan shits gold bricks, you're immediately ridiculed and called names. It's gotten sad.

[smootness]

bravo ... if you dont believe this just go back and re-watch the recorded games like I have been doing and see the glaring mistakes and the calls that just make you shake your head ... I understand DM has been better than most coaches we have had in the past, not taking that away from him, I also understand his accomplishments ... but there are those that just haven't seen enough yet to crown him the sacred saint of MSU football ... I'm one of them

Fans will always criticize play-calling. Always. And some of it will be justified, but we also have the benefit of hindsight.

I've been frustrated by our use of guys like Russell/Perkins while running plays suited for Dak/Robinson, too, but you have to look at the big picture when evaluating a coach. If you're going to constantly use some play-calling/decision-making criticisms against a coach, then you will always have a 'yeah, but...' mentality.

Saban has been a phenomenal coach, but he made some seemingly dumb decisions in the Auburn game. But you can't focus on those when evaluating him. Overall, he has obviously been insane for that program, and the issues in the Auburn game shouldn't even be brought up.

The question is always, has the coach done a good job overall? (a clear yes with Mullen); and, can you find someone you know is better (could be argued, but it's tough to say with certainty that anyone could have done more overall at State than Mullen so far).

So I don't see the major issues. He may have cost us a game here or there with one or two decisions. But he's certainly helped us win a bunch with his overall management of the program.

I allowed myself to be swayed, in the middle of the year, by individual calls and the fact that it looked like our team was playing without energy. I was wrong in that, and I understood that I was wrong after seeing the way we finished the year.

[Goat Holder]

You doomsayers said the same thing about Cohen. I mean who the hell do you all think you are that you're qualified to hold someone to a position of perfection?

It's very easy to look at Mullen's body of work and see that he's done a phenomenal job.

[DownwardDawg]

You doomsayers said the same thing about Cohen. I mean who the hell do you all think you are that you're qualified to hold someone to a position of perfection?

It's very easy to look at Mullen's body of work and see that he's done a phenomenal job.

Goat, where is the doomsday stuff you are referring to? It's certainly not in this thread. There are some well thought out posts in this thread pointing out strengths and weaknesses of Mullen. None of those posts are from you. Reading your posts is like trying to watch an episode of Impractical Jokers. You are so embarrassed for the people in the show, you have to watch with your hands over your eyes and peek between your fingers.

[FISHDAWG]

I was swayed in like manner at the end of the eggbowl ... but as I rewatch the games it's so much more than just play calling .... wrong players for the given call... going for two points instead of one to tie and then going for one point instead of trying to tie with two .... playing seniors over better talent ... game / clock management (every loss we had we gave up an easy score before halftime) ... going into a prevent defense with two minutes left in the game .... in his 5th year and our ST / kickers suck (not punters) .....being to aggressive ... then not being aggressive enough .....but at least he learned to stay away from the fake punts .... I will concede he has recruited better than past coaches and put us on a path to success and has my full support ... I'm just not ready to erect a statue of him yet

[Pollodawg]

Look, I am not saying Mullen is perfect, and there have been some definite head-scratchers. But, please point out a single coach in college football who doesn't have moments like that. Look, fellas, I lost hope for a while there in the middle of the season too and was basically off of the Mullen train, but they way we won when our backs were against the wall and we absolutely had to, has kind of brought me back. Hell, we could just as easily lost those last two games with the effort we gave last season. If that doesn't point to some Mullen improvement from last year, I don't know what will.

[PMDawg2]

You doomsayers said the same thing about Cohen. I mean who the hell do you all think you are that you're qualified to hold someone to a position of perfection?

It's very easy to look at Mullen's body of work and see that he's done a phenomenal job.

I said the same thing about Jackie sherrill in 2000. Some people said the same thing about Croom in 2005. Some people said the same thing about stansbury around 2006. What's your point? That sometimes people are wrong? That's not really a huge revelation.

If it's so easy to look at a coach's body of work and judge him 100% accurately, then why are so many coaches fired every year? There are thousands of factors and variables to consider, and there are many possible outcomes to reach. I agree that overall, he's done a good job. But after that, there are many topics to discuss and debates to be had. It would do you well to realize that and stop calling everyone that doesn't agree with you 100% an idiot.

[Pollodawg]

Les Miles--Has won a NC but can't manage a clock with a gun held to his temple.
Nick Saban--In the 2011 "Game of the Century" kicks field goal after field goal knowing his kicker is mind 17ed and can't do it.
Hud the genius gets blown the hell out in his last game of the season.

[smootness]

I was swayed in like manner at the end of the eggbowl ... but as I rewatch the games it's so much more than just play calling .... wrong players for the given call... going for two points instead of one to tie and then going for one point instead of trying to tie with two .... playing seniors over better talent ... game / clock management (every loss we had we gave up an easy score before halftime) ... going into a prevent defense with two minutes left in the game .... in his 5th year and our ST / kickers suck (not punters) .....being to aggressive ... then not being aggressive enough .....but at least he learned to stay away from the fake punts .... I will concede he has recruited better than past coaches and put us on a path to success and has my full support ... I'm just not ready to erect a statue of him yet

All fair points.

Specifically with reference to the going for 1 vs. 2 issues, which game are you talking about, and what was the situation? I don't remember that.

[blacklistedbully]

You doomsayers said the same thing about Cohen. I mean who the hell do you all think you are that you're qualified to hold someone to a position of perfection?

It's very easy to look at Mullen's body of work and see that he's done a phenomenal job.

Hello again, moron. More proof you;re a knee-jerk jackass with little capacity for actual debate. I have NEVER been on the "fire Cohen" band wagon. In fact, I've been a huge fan. In reality, the only time I've been publicly critical of a coach is this time with Dan. And for the first 3.5 years I was one of his most vocal supporters.

Goat, you're just too damned ignorant or inflexible to get it. Thankfully there are several posters on here who are competent and offer real value to the board beyond your clown act. I'm sure we all get a good chuckle reading your posts. Sometimes they are truly comic relief on a stressful day.

As for me, I'm open-minded and willing to admit when I'm wrong. Ask Engie. Earlier this year I wrongly accused him of starting a personal insult-laden exchange with me. When I looked back and discovered I'd been mistaken, I publicly & privately apologized. That's what a decent human being does, and what a man of character and integrity does.

Clearly, you are unfamiliar with these concepts.

[Goat Holder]

Hello again, moron. More proof you;re a knee-jerk jackass with little capacity for actual debate. I have NEVER been on the "fire Cohen" band wagon. In fact, I've been a huge fan. In reality, the only time I've been publicly critical of a coach is this time with Dan. And for the first 3.5 years I was one of his most vocal supporters.

You literally have NOTHING to use against me. I have countered all your points. You don't like my opinion? Too bad.

Goat, you're just too damned ignorant or inflexible to get it. Thankfully there are several posters on here who are competent and offer real value to the board beyond your clown act. I'm sure we all get a good chuckle reading your posts. Sometimes they are truly comic relief on a stressful day.

Some agree with you, some agree with me. Chuckle? I don't know, I genuinely feel bad for people with your viewpoint. You're not entertaining at all. I'm trying to help your pitiful ass. Clearly wasting my time though.

As for me, I'm open-minded and willing to admit when I'm wrong. Ask Engie. Earlier this year I wrongly accused him of starting a personal insult-laden exchange with me. When I looked back and discovered I'd been mistaken, I publicly & privately apologized. That's what a decent human being does, and what a man of character and integrity does.

Sounds like you're pretty damn sensitive to me. Might want to fix that before you become an internet cowboy.

At the end of the day, I don't care, you're not changing your opinion and I'm not either. But I think you are ignorant (the actual definition, not trying to insult) about football, college football especially. I think your viewpoint is extremely narcissistic as well. And I really don't give two shits about your personal life or engie's. But hey, if you give to the BC and show up to games, you're good with me as far as your involvement in my life, opinion or not.