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Thread: College Offensive Success is 70%+ About QB Play

  1. #61
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Nobody minds critique. He is average at best right now.
    But for shotgun to compare him to redshirt juniors and seniors, and to say he cannot get better physically from age 19 to age 22 (ask Matt Wyatt about this, he talked about himself the other day), is intellectually dishonest.
    I think Matt is good at breaking down film, but he's said something about players that kind of makes me laugh. I don't look to him for evaluations
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  2. #62
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I just don't see tools improving. You either have them or you don't. He can certainly process things quicker, which would help. I just think for will to be a really successful sec qb, he'll have to be lifted up by his supporting cast. I'm hoping Sawyer (in time) can lift up those around him like big time qbs do.
    Agree
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    - I can settle to agree with your 1st point.
    - However, it's because of point #2 that we need a more dynamic player back there.

    I would ask though, what college offenses are really good at the P5 level with a QB talent like Rogers? Can name a few?
    We had the same issues with KJ Costello, a redshirt senior who got a look at NFL camps. Read Coach's point 2 again and let it sink in.

  4. #64
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    He's never going to have a huge arm. That's the only tool I can say will never be above average. He will have to make up for that with anticipation and accuracy, like a drew Brees approach.
    Brees is extremely quick & twitchy. A great athlete although short. Different level athletes we're talking about here.
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  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    - I can settle to agree with your 1st point.
    - However, it's because of point #2 that we need a more dynamic player back there.

    I would ask though, what college offenses are really good at the P5 level with a QB talent like Rogers? Can name a few?
    70% on one guy regardless of type of offense scheme is ridiculous high. OL, DL will win a lot of games. Great OL with an average RB will still produce yards. Great OL, great WR with average QB will still produce yards.

    Yes if there are gaps other places, then the QB can make up for it. You can't throw out everything else that makes a winning team. Bama won a lot of championships without a heisman winner or great QB. Some great QBs in college didn't play on championship teams but made it big in NFL - Brady, Breeze, Dak, etc. QB ain't 70% of a winning team.

    Even Peyton Manning didn't win a NC - Tee Martin did. How do you reconcile that?

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    It's both, but I lean heavily on him not having the physical skills.

    Again break it down

    Arm strength: Above average, normal, below average

    Speed: Above average, normal, below average

    Athleticism: Above average, normal, below average

    Quickness: Above average, normal, below average

    Accuracy: Above average, normal, below average
    Here are the sec qb:

    Young
    Nix
    Jefferson
    Dude from Aggie
    Max Johnson
    Corral
    Rogers

    Daniels
    Emory Jones
    Levis
    Bazelak
    Seals
    Milton
    Dude from Usce

    Using your categories, Rogers is above average in accuracy and below average in arm strength. Average in speed/quickness/athleticism (same as Aggie, bazelak, Levis, seals, Daniels, Usce guy).

  7. #67
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Here are the sec qb:

    Young
    Nix
    Jefferson
    Dude from Aggie
    Max Johnson
    Corral
    Rogers

    Daniels
    Emory Jones
    Levis
    Bazelak
    Seals
    Milton
    Dude from Usce

    Using your categories, Rogers is above average in accuracy and below average in arm strength. Average in speed/quickness/athleticism (same as Aggie, bazelak, Levis, seals, Daniels, Usce guy).
    You just put Rogers & Daniels in the same category while also giving Rogers above average accuracy?

    What has Rogers done for you to think he has above average accuracy?
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  8. #68
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    Here are the sec qb:

    Young
    Nix
    Jefferson
    Dude from Aggie
    Max Johnson
    Corral
    Rogers

    Daniels
    Emory Jones
    Levis
    Bazelak
    Seals
    Milton
    Dude from Usce

    Using your categories, Rogers is above average in accuracy and below average in arm strength. Average in speed/quickness/athleticism (same as Aggie, bazelak, Levis, seals, Daniels, Usce guy).
    Calzada was actually pretty athletic. Now his accuracy made his parents in the stands deny they knew him

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    Personally, I don't think he'll be on the field in two years
    He may not.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Calzada was actually pretty athletic. Now his accuracy made his parents in the stands deny they knew him
    Agree. Calzada is an SEC athlete with G5 throwing ability. His arm doesn't work right
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  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg View Post
    You just put Rogers & Daniels in the same category while also giving Rogers above average accuracy?

    What has Rogers done for you to think he has above average accuracy?
    I'm saying Rogers is the same as those guys in the speed, athleticism, quickness category.

    Be accurate throwing the football. To the tune of 75% I believe.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Calzada was actually pretty athletic. Now his accuracy made his parents in the stands deny they knew him
    I meant their starter, Haynes whatever.

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    Sevendust over on GP took the time to show a couple of screenshots where we missed some big plays with open receivers on the deep and intermediate routes.

    There are tons of things I still don't like about the offense, but knowing that we're at least creating big play opportunities makes me feel better. To be clear these are situations with clean pockets, not deals were the QB is flushed right and the guy on the far left becomes wide open.

    The main problem seems to be Will just focuses way too much on the routes within 10 lines of the LOS. Teams are seeing that tendency and crowding that area more and more, so while we still complete the catch, there is no YAC.

    He's not a bad QB at all you can win with him as he does a good job of limiting mistakes. The Goff/Stafford example is a good one earlier in the thread. Is he better than some SEC starting QBs? Absolutely, but outside Bama and Georgia the SEC has struggled at the position that last few years overall for some reason.

    So can Will change his mentality to get a get a little more confident in taking deeper shots and also making the defense account for him with the occasional scramble? That's where our growth needs to happen to take a step forward. We need to run the ball better as well and get our run blocking worked out but considering how little we run, that's not an important right now.

  14. #74
    Senior Member ShotgunDawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    I'm saying Rogers is the same as those guys in the speed, athleticism, quickness category.

    Be accurate throwing the football. To the tune of 75% I believe.
    Rogers is not the same athlete as Daniels. Not close

    We're going to be arguing about completion percentage with this offense for years to come. I can see it now. It's meaningless to me. Absolutely meaningless.

    That 75% completion % is good enough for our offense to currently be ranked 75% in the country. So it seems to me that completion % in the air raid & 10 cents may get you a cup of coffee.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by confucius say View Post
    I meant their starter, Haynes whatever.
    The starter that broke his ankle is a crazy good talent. Can run & has a hand cannon
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  16. #76
    Senior Member msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    Sevendust over on GP took the time to show a couple of screenshots where we missed some big plays with open receivers on the deep and intermediate routes.

    There are tons of things I still don't like about the offense, but knowing that we're at least creating big play opportunities makes me feel better. To be clear these are situations with clean pockets, not deals were the QB is flushed right and the guy on the far left becomes wide open.

    The main problem seems to be Will just focuses way too much on the routes within 10 lines of the LOS. Teams are seeing that tendency and crowding that area more and more, so while we still complete the catch, there is no YAC.

    He's not a bad QB at all you can win with him as he does a good job of limiting mistakes. The Goff/Stafford example is a good one earlier in the thread. Is he better than some SEC starting QBs? Absolutely, but outside Bama and Georgia the SEC has struggled at the position that last few years overall for some reason.

    So can Will change his mentality to get a get a little more confident in taking deeper shots and also making the defense account for him with the occasional scramble? That's where our growth needs to happen to take a step forward. We need to run the ball better as well and get our run blocking worked out but considering how little we run, that's not an important right now.
    Wonder how many of those misses downfield are a product of just not trusting his arm to get it there.

  17. #77
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    Accuracy, like any stats can be a bit misleading.

    If I throw 10 passes and complete 8 for an 80% rate but 6 are passes to the RB in the flat and while caught are off his back hip and don't allow for any YAC is that QB more accurate than a guy who goes 5 for 10 but has 2 drops and hits all 5 completions in stride that allow for YAC?

    The boxscore would tell me that the guy who is 80% completion percentage is way more accurate than the guy at 50%. The eye test would tell me the 50% guy is the more accurate QB.

    Arguing QB is tough and it's why so many professional graders still get it way wrong.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irondawg View Post
    Sevendust over on GP took the time to show a couple of screenshots where we missed some big plays with open receivers on the deep and intermediate routes.

    There are tons of things I still don't like about the offense, but knowing that we're at least creating big play opportunities makes me feel better. To be clear these are situations with clean pockets, not deals were the QB is flushed right and the guy on the far left becomes wide open.

    The main problem seems to be Will just focuses way too much on the routes within 10 lines of the LOS. Teams are seeing that tendency and crowding that area more and more, so while we still complete the catch, there is no YAC.

    He's not a bad QB at all you can win with him as he does a good job of limiting mistakes. The Goff/Stafford example is a good one earlier in the thread. Is he better than some SEC starting QBs? Absolutely, but outside Bama and Georgia the SEC has struggled at the position that last few years overall for some reason.

    So can Will change his mentality to get a get a little more confident in taking deeper shots and also making the defense account for him with the occasional scramble? That's where our growth needs to happen to take a step forward. We need to run the ball better as well and get our run blocking worked out but considering how little we run, that's not an important right now.
    Solid post. I think this week is a great week for Will to air it out some. We should have WRs open down the field this week & it's a great time for him to unleash it responsibly
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Wonder how many of those misses downfield are a product of just not trusting his arm to get it there.
    I think he's been Ok going over the top. It's the off platform, mid range throws where he struggles. Going over the top doesn't require a ton of arm strength unless you Corral it 60 yards in the air
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Wonder how many of those misses downfield are a product of just not trusting his arm to get it there.
    The miss to walley and Johnson were both within ten yards amd both would have been huge gains. Just two bad throws.

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