Interesting read. Some say they hate he left while others say he may not have even been the second best QB there. I think some are quite salty while others are more realistic.
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/thread...t-camp.240805/
Printable View
Interesting read. Some say they hate he left while others say he may not have even been the second best QB there. I think some are quite salty while others are more realistic.
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/thread...t-camp.240805/
Interesting read.
In all these situations there will be the sour grapes people & sky is falling people. Either way, I think the consensus is that Penn State fans liked Tommy, but in many ways, like us, I'm not sure they saw him play enough to really know how good he is.
Think about it, if KT left tomorrow for another school, would you really know how good he was?
I think it's a similar situation.
No idea how good Stevens is, but I think it's pretty clear Franklin thinks Clifford is better. I don't think he would've let Stevens walk if he felt Stevens were the better of the 2. With that said, both Stevens and Clifford could be studs. I just don't see why a penn st fan would have sour grapes if they trust Franklin.
I think Franklin is very bullheaded on things.. I don't see him giving in on something like that.
Fact of the matter is that Stevens is better than anything else we currently have.
Franklin comes off as a arrogant A Hole. When he made the statement I have to see how hot a coaches wife is before I hire him said all I needed to know about him. Maybe Stevens just said I am tired of the SOB. Maybe Franklin is a A Hole to every. Maybe Stevens just said I am going to go play for a guy I like. One guy made that point in that thread. "Maybe he just like Moorhead More."Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
/thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenheadDawg
I was interested in how the graduate transfer QBs of last year worked out, so I found the list of the top 20
https://collegefootballnews.com/2018...are-they-going
I don't have time to check every one of them out right now, but minshew is the only one I recognized as having a good year. Now I don't know all of them, so there could've been more. You guys help me out with figuring success rate
TS wasn?t promised the starting job at PSU. Yes he was the clear favorite going into the spring but that?s when it all went down hill. The main issue was that Franklin and the staff mismanaged TS ankle injury in December which kept him out of spring practice. Franklin promised him that he would compete for the starting job but then named a starter after spring without giving TS a fair shot This was not that TS was bad or not good it was that staff mismanagement of the injury and the competition. This is why he transferredQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Most of those transferred down so I didn't recognize them but I just randomly looked up Brady White who transferred to Memphis. He led the AAC in passing and was tied with Drew Locke at 20th in the nation in TDs. That is pretty good. I would bet most of the guys was at least as good or better than any QB on the roster which is the important part.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Getting Stevens doesn't hurt unless KT transfers and was actually the better QB. I doubt that is the case at least in Moorhead's offense unless KT has gotten drastically better from the Spring game. I am not going to check but I imagine you have several posts during or after the spring game saying we are screwed because KT can't complete more than 50% of his passes.
This seems to be a case of you just finding a reason to shit on Moorhead instead of saying he did a great job to get a QB to give us a better chance at success and the QB is possibly pretty damn good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm Bored - so here you go.
20- Ryan Boyle - Iowa to Indiana - didn't play at either
19 - Shawn Stankavage - Vandy to Rice - threw 1 pass at Vandy. At Rice he went 124 of 219 for 1328 yards, 10 TD 10 INT - Rice Sucked, he seemed serviceable.
18 - Tucker Isreal - no info
17 - Jeff George, Jr - Illinois to Pitt - went from starter who lost job to not playing (proving his Jeff George's son)
16 - James Morgan - Bowling Green to FIU - serviceable QB at BGU. Lit up FIU for 213 of 326 for 2727 yards, 26 TDs and 7 int, went 8-3.
15 - Jacob Park - Iowa - no school in 2018
14 - JJ Consentino - FSU - no school in 2018
13 - Evan Shirreffs - Miami to Charlotte - Played in 3 games at Miami. Played in 5 at Charlotte
12 - Alex Malzone - Michigan to Miami U. (OH) - No appearances at Michigan. 2 games at Miami.
11 - Quinten Dormady - Tennesse to Houston - 13 games over 3 seasons at UT. 1 games at Houston
10 - Jalan McClendon- NCSU to Baylor - 14 appearances in 3 seasons at NCSU. Played 9 games at BU, 55 of 91 for 715, 3 TD and 3 INT
9 - Brady White - ASU to Memphis - 2 appearances in 3 seasons at ASU. Lit up Memphis with 246 for 392, 3296 yards, 26 TDs and 9 INT. Went 8-6
8 - KJ Carta-Samuels - Washington to Colorado State - 15 appearances in 3 seasons at Washington. Won starting job at CSU, went 183 for 298 with 2261 yards, 19 TDs and 9 INT, went 3-5 and lost his job.
7 - Gardner Minshew - We all know what he did for the Pirate
6 - Dru Brown - Hawaii to Oklahoma State - 2 year starter at Hawaii. Redshirted at OSU
5 - Tyler Wiegers - Iowa to Eastern Michigan - 5 appearances in 3 years at Iowa. Starter at EMU, 171 of 265 for 1887 yards, 11 TDs and 3 INTS. Went 7-5.
4 - Keller Chryst - Stanford to Tennesse - Former Stanford starter. Serviceable backup at UT.
3 - Alex Thomson - Wagner to Marshall - 4 appearances at Marshall
2 - Brandon Dawkins - Arizona to Indiana - Part time starter at AZ. DNP at Indiana.
1 - Wilton Speight - Michigan to UCLA - Former Michigan starter. Became UCLA starter in late October. Went 126 of 208 for 1527 yards, 6 TD and 6 INTs. Went 2-4.
Real mixed bag. Lots of guys who never played who continued not to play. 7 appear to have become starters at some point in the season - most doing ok. Minshew, Morgan, and White did very well.
I'm like the least concerned person you'll find on completion %. I think it's pretty terrible metric to judge a qb on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
BTW, I said we should pursue tommy in January bc clifford would win the job
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthrea...hlight=stevens
Franks stuck around though... he's the one we really needed.
I posted that thread bc it shows I'm not anti-Stevens like I'm being painted. I just really believe in the odds and success rate for graduate transfers is something I was interested in
ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
This made the whole thing worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
So it looks like most QBs at least improved the team they went to at the QB position. Isn't that the entire point? It is only a detriment if Stevens is a worse QB and it runs off KT. Even then if Stevens gives us a better chance this year at a better record then it is worth it. It seems like Mayden and Shrader might be better suited for Joe's offense. Joe has stated that the best passer is the guy who will start.
Ok, I apologize. I just assumed you were trying to crap on Stevens. You have to admit that assuming you are being negative about anything to do with Moorhead is probably a safe assumption. At the end of the day, we all want Moorhead to be successful but some are worried due to the Croom affect which is completely understandable. When you wander in the desert for 5 years looking for competitive football and finally find it for a decade, you don't ever want to go back to those Croom level teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm not worried about going to croom level. I think joe is a much better coach. I'm concerned we downgraded from Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
We will see. Joe was at least universally regarded as a good coach. That doesn't necessarily mean he will be successful but he was actually a safer bet than when we hired Mullen initially. We had to hire someone and you would want to hire the guy you thought long term would be the best. We might have hired a coach that was more suited to coaching last year's offense but he also probably wouldn't have had that level of success on defense and long term might not be the answer. Hopefully Joe is but if not, at least he is recruiting as well as Mullen ever did. As long as he doesn't stumble up against a crap team (which he dominated last year) and we maintain around 7-8 wins then we at least aren't worse off.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We are having this discussion but isn't Stevens the only non four star scholarship QB on our roster?
yes, it's the point, but you have to start with someone who is not only good at running and throwing but someone who knows how to distribute the ball within the perameters of what Joe's offense calls for. In this case, it's a 1 year bridge to the freshman most likely. Not saying Mayden cant do it. Just saying that all of us saw that talent doesnt make one able to execute this particular offense. It takes some understanding of the roles of each rb and receiver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
The thing about Tommy is not just that he has experience in it. He has experience in it as being a wide out, a qb and a quasi running back taking handoffs.
I'm sure Tommy is realistic about his shot as an nfl qb and that it's kinda low, but this is his only shot to earn it. Along the way, my bet is he can slide into the wr position to help Mayden and Shraeder improve. This is like getting another qb coach on the field as much as it is someone who will march the team down the field.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
I still think KT is the guy. Just think about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1bigdawg
Last year, if KT played the entire season, we still would have won 8 games with the bowl game and KT would have 14 games under his belt. With Staley and that other guy bailing on us, it forced us to not use KT's redshirt year. KT is a very young true Junior on the field.
Now I hope both KT, Mayden, Shrader, and Stevens comes in and play awesome. I hope they all are basically either Brett Favre or Cam Newton out there. If Mayden isn't going to get a shot at QB, I want him somewhere else on the field. That conversation needs to take place. We need athletes on the field that can catch the ball.
Also you can think about the fact that if KT redshirts this year then he would be on the same track as Dak was on (starting as a redshirt sophomore only due to injury). Now I imagine Joe would put KT in at times if he plays this year either at QB or catching the ball but if he redshirts then he still has 2 possible years to start. Most QBs just start for 2 years in college. It is getting more common for QBs to come in as freshmen or sophomores but most of those guys are either high level guys or starting out of necessity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead
As a former Falcons fan, I couldn't pass that upQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Best ED thread in a while.
Stevens is the guy. Get behind him.
Pretty sure the story behind him leaving was how Franklin and staff mismanaged and misled him during an injury. Franklin does not exactly come off as a standup citizen.
Early indications are that we did downgrade. Mullen is good coach and most of us took him for granted, including me.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
How many of those guys transferred to a school that ran an offense that he had already been in?Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm sure several of the grad transfers on that list were starting over in a relatively new offense. If there is one bright side it's the fact that Stevens has been in the offense before and should be a bit ahead of the game.
It's certainly a unique situation, and it gives tommy a much better chance of succeeding than the normal grad transfer.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB30
Yeah, well, Mullen took us for granted too.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenheadDawg
I'd say it is not unusual:Quote:
Originally Posted by BB30
Minshew was at ECU - Scottie Montgomery was from the Cutcliffe tree, was OC at Duke. So not an air raid guy.
Stankavage was at Vandy - and Bloomgren at Rice was at Stanford with Derek Mason under David Shaw - so probably some crossover
Morgan was at BGU under Mike Jinks and went to FIU under Butch Davis. Jinks was RB coach at Texas Tech under Kingsbury and his OC came from under Leech. Don't know much about Butch's offenses - but he is an old Frank Broyles guy.
White was at ASU under Graham - an Air Raid type and moved to Norvell at Memphis. Norvell coached under Graham at Tulsa. So probably some lots of cross over.
Carta-Samuels was under Peterson at UW, and Bobo at CSU. Don't think much cross over there.
Weigers and Speight went from pro-style to pro-style - not a big learning curve.
Once Franklin did what he did he had no choice. He didn?t want Stevens to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I think Franklin wanted his cake and eat it too. In other words he felt the other QB was a little better but he wanted Stevens to stay to have that reliable back up that win games.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Yeah, I think you have it rightQuote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
He's 6-5 240, can run, has a cannon for an arm, he's about to start for an SEC team and he's getting big praise from important people down at the Manning camp. I guarantee he doesn't think his chances at the NFL as a QB are low. College football players at this level are supremely confident, particularly when they know they have a good opportunity in front of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by gravedigger
As for the second part of this, are you saying he's going to move to WR at some point this year and Mayden or Shrader will be the QB? Zero percent chance that happens. Maybe I'm confused by what you're saying. Stevens will be the QB the entire season, barring injury. I think there's just a tiny chance he's not the QB (1%) and if he's not it will be because KT took the largest leap of development from one year to the next that we've seen.
^^^this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
Whether Moorhead succeeds at MSU or not, I'm ok as long as he's not job-hunting by mid November every year like Mullen was.
He may have just been dealing with two potential transfer risks and made a choice based on the next two years. Name Stevens as the presumptive starter and risk Clifford transferring out. Not name Stevens as the presumptive starter after the way he handled his injury and risk Stevens transferring out. If you're Franklin, if you lose Clifford, you have to have a new QB ready to start in 2020. He may not have anybody that he feels comfortable will be ready at that point. Lose Stevens, you have Clifford for 2019 and 2020 and have until 2021 to develop the next starter (barring injury), which is as much time as any coach can ask/hope for.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
No clue if Clifford would have been a transfer risk since he'd already redshirted and was going to be a Junior, but maybe he was close to graduating.
Clifford isn’t better then Stevens and he changes what their offense can do as he is not a run threat at all. As that Executive Director stated, he couldn’t believe Franklin let Stevens go. Maybe Franklin wanted to dictate that he wanted to move away from having a mobile QB. Who knows but telling Stevens to have the surgery when he did so he missed both bowl prep and spring practice was just foolish on Franklin and his staff’s part. Time will always tell but hey Franklin’s dumb ass decisions have benefited at least us and Oregon (got 5 star WR Johnson).Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapGame
If there's one thing I know, it's you are much better qualified to know who is better between Clifford and Stevens than franklin. You may be right, but you have nothing to base this on. In limited playing time last year, Clifford had a 399.7 passer rating. Sure that's going to go waaaay down, but I think franklin knows more about both than you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Well, I mean that he knows he's a multi position player and he didnt win the starting job at Penn State. He knows this is his chance at qb, but he's got the ability to play multiple positions in the NFL. I probably shouldnt have said 'low'.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverCityDawg
No, I'm not saying he will actually move to those positions. I'm saying he will be able to help with those positions learn their jobs and in some mop up time or trick play, could line up that way if we needed him to. Defenses would have to respect that.
My overall point is that he ads a role as a coach for multiple offensive positions due to his use at Penn State.
This will be proven this fall so we shall see. Clifford is a pro style QB with very limited running ability and they are running an RPO offense. Not the best situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7