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Beyond moral grounds there Are No reasons not to cheat anymore. Damn the NCAA all but begs for it. Check out mismi's penalty. Talk about totally worth it.
This is a scary thing to me because smArtly, this is what ole miss has figured out, that it's worth it.
We don't seem to get it yet, or if we do and this is the recruiting we get from it then we have bigger problems.
With every turn the NCAA gives green light after green light to cheat. It's getting ridiculous but we need to recognize it.
Do you realize that Miami self-imposed some incredibly harsh penalties? The NCAA basically accepted that and added the loss of nine scholarships to it. If they had stonewalled, the NCAA would have nailed them..
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8651616/
I think there is a lot to criticize the NCAA over, but I have no problem with what happened at Miami.
Auburn goes on orobation sometimes. Sometimes they win national championships.
We are on probation. The question should be, "why do we suck at cheating?".
Cheat, but cheat well, damn it!
Because we always get caught.
Do we get caught, or does our administration just admit to things without making the NCAA prove it? A lot of schools get caught, but they damn sure don't turn themselves in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
Because we catch ourselves and our excellent Compliance Dept. that's full of ****ing boy scouts turns us in.
I bet just this message board talking about cheating is enough for Bracky to suspend Redmond another 5 games.
5 games? Too little. Bracky declares that Redmond shall be banished from football FOREVER!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/123...-forever-o.gif
I've pretty much resigned myself to that fact that given Freeze and staff are better recruiters that Mullen and staff anyway and ADD that to the fact that OM admin and compliance is on board with "doing what it takes" to get players and our admin and compliance are not that OM just plain out has a higher ceiling than we do in what they can accomplish as a program at this point going forward. EVERYONE in this league has good coaches, EVERYONE in this league develops players, the real difference in the end comes down to talent for the most part and we aren't getting as much as the vast majority of our league brethren. We would need a hotshot recruiting type of HC to come in AND dump Bracky and crew and change our attitude with compliance to even have a fighting chane to get on equal footing with the top half of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheewgumm
Loss of 3 scholarships per year for 3 years, seems an awful lot like a slap on the wrist to me. Hell, we only signed 22 last February, and that was with a couple of sign and place guys. I mean wasn't this a clear cut case of "Loss of Institutional Control?" What was USC charged with when everything with Reggie Bush went down? Didn't they lose 10 scholarships per year for 3 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubb Rubb
ETA:
Per Wikipedia:
In my opinion, these are the type of sanctions that are needed in order for programs to really start thinking twice about cheating.Quote:
Background[edit]
Probes by both USC and the NCAA found that football star Reggie Bush, the 2005 Heisman Trophy winner, and basketball star O. J. Mayo had effectively forfeited their amateur status (in Mayo's case, before he ever played a game for USC) by accepting gifts from agents. In addition, the women's tennis team was cited in the report for unauthorized phone calls made by a former player.[1] As a result of the ongoing investigation, which progressed well into the 2010-11 seasons for both USC and Reggie Bush's New Orleans Saints, Bush voluntarily gave up his 2005 Heisman Trophy, which the Heisman Trust decided to leave vacant.[2][3][4]
Punishment[edit]
As a result of sanctions issued by both USC and the NCAA, the Trojan athletic program received some of the harshest penalties ever meted out to a Division 1 program. The football team was forced to vacate the final two wins of its 2004 national championship season, as well as all of its wins in 2005. It was also banned from bowl games in both 2010 and 2011 and was docked 30 scholarships over three years. The basketball team gave up all of its wins from the 2007-08 season and sat out postseason play in 2010. The NCAA accepted USC's earlier elimination of its wins between November 2006 and May 2009 and did not sanction the team further.[1]
Shortly after the NCAA handed out its penalties, the Football Writers Association of America announced it would no longer recognize the Trojans as its 2004 national champion.[5] In June 2011, the Bowl Championship Series stripped the Trojans of the 2004 BCS title, though the Associated Press still recognizes the Trojans as its national champions for 2004.
Bush is the first person in the Heisman Trophy's history to give his trophy back to the Heisman Trust, and the 2005 season is the only one in the award's history for which there is no winner.
Yancy has already alerted the masses weeks ago for the big recruiting weekend in 2014. The coaches don't have to say a word, people know to treat recruits like royalty. If you thought 2013 was bad, it will have nothing on 2014.
Hey, as long as Saban is at Alabama Ole Miss will never win the west or go to the SEC championship game no matter how much cheating or whatever they want to do. They will top out at 8-9 win seasons like us. That is their ceiling. Call it what you want but no matter what they do they won't go any higher then that.
Disagree...bama is not unbeatAble, just look at a& m last year . Ole miss could get to the point of beating them, especially if they take over ms in recruiting. Traditionally there is tons of talent in ms. I'd you get 80 percent of that and can pick up good recruits out of stat( which they have proven they can do) then you can win big.
They are on there way.
State fans should be concerned. Most of us are.
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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
This post is absolutely laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheewgumm
Ole Miss will never get 80% of the talent in MS, nor will they ever consistently recruit on the same level as Alabama. And pointing to their one loss last year (which came against a top 5 team) as evidence that Alabama is "beatable" for a team like OM is completely ridiculous.......every top 5 team can lose to another top 5 team on a given day. Bama is a powerhouse on a level that OM is no where close to, and Bama is no more beatable for them than they are us.
It may be legitimate for State fans to be concerned about OM passing us by, but not about them winning the West. Get a grip.
They don't need 80% of the MS talent. Last year their best recruits were from out of state and they are getting some good ones out of state again this year. If they can split MS with us and add in these out of state studs that is all they need. We are the ones who seem to be almost totally dependent on getting all of our top recruits from in state. Yes, we are getting out of state recruits but generally they aren't recruits wanted by their in state schools. Right now, we are king of the 3 star.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
Do you honestly think Ole Miss will consistently get top ten to top five recruiting classes? I think not. In fact, I think they will continue to get the classes they got under Nutt and under Orgeron. It really doesn't matter who the coach is there. Heck, Nutt did more at Ole Miss in his first two years then Bucky ever thought about including beating the eventual national champion at their place. Nutt accomplished more in his first two years then Bucky has. As far as Ole Miss owning the state, that will never happen. MSU will get MSU kids Ole miss will get Ole Miss kids. They have always won the crootin' championships in February. We have won 3/4 Egg Bowls. After this year, it will be 4/5. But I will repeat what I said, their ceiling is like ours 8-9 wins. As long as Saban is at Alabama, they will not win the west and will not win the SEC. 25-0 says I am right.
Things change.
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Originally Posted by sandwolf
Ole Miss is not in the same class as LSU. Classic overreaction by our fanbase.
When we beat Alabama in 06 and 07, we didnt put ourselves on the same level as them.
Sorry, you cant just ignore the LSU's history just because last weekend they lost to Ole Miss and declare Ole Miss on their level.
As someone who has been a college recruiter and a hs coach, I can tell that you don't know a thing about what you just said. Fact is this - Ole Miss is now recruiting on the level of LSU and Bama. THey are going after top names in recruiting ranks at all positions, their administration is all in, their coaches are all in, their fan base and alumni are all in, the student body is all in. They may not win the west this year or next, but if they stack another recruiting class or two like last season's on top of one another, in three years that group will be able to compete in the West division and nationally. If you cannot see that, then you are really blind to the situation. They are recruiting well nationally, and they are starting to make some serious in-roads into the state ranks. It doesn't matter how they are getting these recruits....bottom line is that they are getting them. And I have no doubt that there are some alums and students "assisting" in the area of convincing them to come to OM, but in the end, the fact is that they are going to Oxford and not other schools. There is some serious talent in their freshman class, as evidenced by how much and how well they have played against the better teams in the Western division. They are lacking some serious depth, but that is a fan base and now a TEAM that believes that they can compete and beat anybody on any given game day......and that is where they have got us beat. We have better depth at every position, but they have a staff, student body and fan base, and a team that believe they can go up against anyone and win. The mental aspect is the biggest difference now between us and the rest of the West, and we are sorely behind everyone in this category.....and I lay that solely at the feet of our staff and administration. Don't know what it is, but the wind has been taken out of Mullen and the staff's sails for the last 11 months and it is terrible to see, IMHO.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandwolf
it is possible that the recent play of OM may light a fire in our staff and team's bellies, but it is just as likely that it sucked the life out of them and they give up against our remaining schedule. The coaching part of having a team mentally tough is tricky, and if you ever lose that with a group, it is like a cancer that will eat away at the foundation of your program. We are not mentally tough at this point. It may be that our team is young, but I think it is a combination of that and our staff has lost their edge in on-field coaching and adjustments, and in the recruiting wars. How do you "right the ship"? I don't have the answer for that one....and that lies at Mullen, and ultimately, at Stricklin's feet.
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Originally Posted by sandwolf
Miami self-imposed two postseason bans, forfeiting bowl money, more significantly during the second year - missing out on a potential BCS payday.
no.
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Originally Posted by cheewgumm
I'm not trying to beat a head horse here. I suggest that this fire everybody says is missing comes from Mullen and staff observing that Bracky has us fighting with two hands tied behind our back.
Fire. Bracky. Now. Hire real compliance experts or outsource it to the law firm of Better Call Saul and play the damn game the way our competition AND OUR CONFERENCE COMMISSIONER have set the table for it to be played.
So when we win in Starkville to beat them 4/5 times what do the recruiting rankings really mean? I get what you are saying but I doubt they will ever land a class like they did last year. The cheating will catch up to them if they do.
best post of the month award! rep points...Quote:
Originally Posted by Westdawg
I agree that Bracky is an issue that needs to be resolved. However, and this my personal opinion, I believe Bracky is only doi g what he is told to do and we are now under LT part II. How else could Bracky what he does and not be pulled from his position?
Could have used some paragraphs here, but this is pretty much spot-the-hell-on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westdawg
YOu say they won't land another class comparable to last year's.....I can tell you haven't seen who they are after this year and who is on their visit lists for this season.
I am telling you here and now, they will end up with at least a Top 15 class or better again this year. My wife flew through the Memphis Airport on the Mondays after their games with aTm and LSU and she was telling me of several kids that she thought were prospects wearing all Ole Miss attire, so I pulled up the lists of kids they have offered and she started identifying some of the kids that she saw....let me say that they are getting some serious talent showing up for games this year. they may not land any of them, but we have already seen how the recruiting machine of OM gears up in Dec-Feb. OM is gonna have a really good class this year.
Westdawg has provided some great insight here. Thanks.
Question for the board: From what we've all heard about what goes on in Oxford for recruits, would you turn down a recruiting trip to Oxford?
Yep. It was a one-time thing**Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
This is their OV list for this year thusfar. Feel free to contrast with ours...
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_...-m5dw-71kb.jpg
There is NO sign of their machine stopping at this point. Even as the NCAA is lurking. It's not total freak out time -- but it's past well past deniability time.
That don't mean Jack to me. Recruting doesn't always pan out because they are just some number a recruiting agency puts out. It works out for Alabama becasue they get so many four and five stars but many of them turn out to be a bust. They got numbers to make up for it and Ole Miss and State does not. We might get a few of them every year but the law of numbers do not work in our favor. Go back and look. Alabama had more four and five stars then three stars and thats every year. Ole Miss class last year was a once in a life time. Even their class this year continues to drop in the rankings. In 2005 we had the #33 class, in 2006 we had the #46 class and in 2007 we had the #39th class and I suspect many of those guys were on our 2010 team that won 9 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westdawg
Since 2002
Ole miss has beaten MSU in recruiting 9 times.
Ole Miss has had 6 top 20 classes according to rivals
Miss state has had 2 top 20 classes according to rivals.
Both have had 1 top 10 classes.
Ole Miss 5 bowl games
MSU 4 bowl games
Ole Miss beat MSU 6 times
MSU beat ole Miss 6 times.
yes
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Originally Posted by TUSK
This is it. Point blank, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westdawg
and last year no less than Tusk himself was here birght eyed and bushy tailed (or maybe it was sixpack) basically laughing at the fact that A&M cold beat them.
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Originally Posted by Westdawg
Sorry replied incorrectly. I agree wiht the big paragraph, obviously.
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Originally Posted by cheewgumm