great comments from the players after only one day. Can't wait to see the impact he makes next spring.
http://www.hailstate.com/ViewArticle...CLID=210467587
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great comments from the players after only one day. Can't wait to see the impact he makes next spring.
http://www.hailstate.com/ViewArticle...CLID=210467587
Makes you wonder what they were being taught before.
Why? Every sport has different philosophies that can produce great results. Pitching and hitting is no different. There is not just one way to get results.Quote:
Originally Posted by starkvegasdawg
I'm excited to see how this staff develops under Johnson. He has inherited some big arms and it's going to be interesting to see what he does with them over the next few years.
I never quibbled with Butch because I thought he did a great job, but I always wondered what it would be like to have a staff of hard throwers here.
It was a bit scary losing Butch, but I am pretty pumped about Johnson. I think his philosophy is a better fit for what the college game has evolved to. The timing wasn't ideal, but there is still plenty of time for bullpen sessions and specific physical training before the spring. Even upperclassmen can make strides in that amount of time. I'm curious to see what it transaltes into, especially when we already have 12+ guys who can thrown over 90.
The biggest concern I have is injuries when you hear about "throwing as hard as you can all the time". I'm sure someone with more knowledge can chime in, but are pitching injuries more reltated to velocity or movement?
Same here. I think that's one of the biggest factors in the number of pitching injuries we see now. That said, I'm going to assume he's teaching proper mechanics and that we'll see increased velocity without the injuries. No reason to be concerned before there is an issue. He's had plenty of success with this philosophy in the past, so I say go for it and we'll see what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1
Bad mechanics and overuse over time (when they are young) is the two biggest injury culprits. That idea of throwing all the time is a concern only if they have bad mechanics, don't properly warm up and cool down, etc. Johnson has a good training program from what I understand and hasn't had too many problems so far in that regard. But with any max effort pitcher you do worry about something blowing out or shorten a pitchers effectiveness or longevity.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1
I'm honestly not worried about this causing injuries - at least not any more than we had with Butch.
EXACTLYQuote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
If Johnson follows the Nolan Ryan/Roger Clemens school of hard throwing thru mechanics, then injuries won't be a problem. A compact motion with great leg drive is the key.
And to piggy back on this, some guys are just more prone to injury. Some guys naturally are gifted with nice easy arm action and some guys aren't. Some guys are late bloomers and haven't been overexposed and some guys have been used entirely too much due to maturing at an early age. Every pitchers body type, arm action, etc. is different and all of these things play into injury/velocity. The biggest thing is learning to command the fastball. Guys like Dakota can carve people up with an above average FB and average off speed if he can command the FB not just over the plate but move it around the plate as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Was it Nolan Ryan that said the key to reduce arm injury was to throw more?Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
Yes. I fully agree with Leo Mazzone, who says the primary issues leading to so many pitcher injuries now are minimal throwing on off-days and in the offseason followed by maxing out effort during games. I don't think mechanics are any worse than they used to be, except that some guys maxing out effort leads to bad mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by spudd21
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Go watch highlights of pitchers in the 70s, 80s, and into the nineties and compare to today. Easy to see where problems arise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Ryan and Leo are big proponents of throwing more and on leg conditioning. Both are big on control and placement too. Leo is also a big believer in long toss. His pitchers would throw long toss the day after they pitched. Leo also had them throw footballs almost daily to build arm strength (he got that from Tom House I believe). I know that Leo is big on limiting breaking pitches for youth players too.Quote:
Originally Posted by spudd21
I know he used to throw a football a lot to strengthen his arm. He also used to do lunges from pole to pole with 135# of weight on his shoulders.Quote:
Originally Posted by spudd21
Does anyone remember the commecial from the 90's where these kids see Roger Clemens jamming his pitching hand into a barrel of rice in his garage.
Do people still do that?
The posts bringing up Ryan and Leo and their philosophies are good. But they for the most part were discussing adults. The problem is not that pitchers don't do that stuff so much in the majors it's the miles those arms have before they are 21. Pitching year round and not playing other sports at 12 years old. No down time for these kids and pitching over limits by pitching for multiple teams, etc. I agree that Ryan's can work but not if that player has pre existing damage in growth plates, tendons, etc. These problems are not known a lot of the time. Now once a player has reached 25 then full maturity has been reached and amazingly studies show that injuries sustained after that age from no pre existing problems drop significantly. But the overwork and overload (max throwing) in younger players is an enormous problem as evident but the shear number of pre 21 year olds needing TJ.
I can't speak for any sports but I know a bunch of my OCR friends do it... hell of a grip workout.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1
I did it in HS with OM now JR Starting catcher makes your forearms look like Popeye's.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogcountry1
Butch is a good man and great coach. He impressed not only my boys at the baseball camps but also my wife. That being said the new blood will be good.
I saw a clip on twitter (others here probably saw it) where johnson had the pitchers with their backs to the wall and they were throwing a weighted ball back over their shoulder (in reverse throwing motion if that makes sense). I got the sense that they were strengthening the opposite muscles of their primary muscles used to throw a pitch.
That reminded me of a man that I saw on the golf channel who was talking about how to hit longer drives and he mentioned that the muscles used to swing a golf club were only as strong as the muscles used to decelerate the club. He said that strengthening both sets of muscles would increase swing speed as well as cut down on injuries. I feel like the drill that I saw on twitter was going by the same principle.
There is a difference between competitive throwing and noncompetitive throwing. The issue with the young pitchers throwing too much is that they are throwing in a competitive setting too much and are not giving their arms time to heal with rest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?
Yes there is a difference but that difference is not being applied with a ton of youth players. I see a ton of young players constantly working at max load and never get time off. Parents or sub par coaches hear the Ryan philosphy and apply it to their 10 year old who is also pitching way too many innings per year anyway. Your right but it makes no difference if proper training is not being used. Which was my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by KB21
Believe me. I hammer some patients on this issue when I see a 12 year old with elbow pain in the clinic. I think the Leo Mazzone throwing program would work at any level, but too many youth coaches simply do not abide by this. Notice that the Braves didn't start having a lot of arm injuries until they abandoned Leo's throwing program.Quote:
Originally Posted by Really Clark?