He was the D-II National Champion and is 58 years old. Former Tiger
Interesting
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He was the D-II National Champion and is 58 years old. Former Tiger
Interesting
I wish we would've hired a D2 coach.
He coached in Missouri so Im sure he already has relationships with the high school coaches in the state
I don't even know what this means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
What a stupid decision, your suppose to hire assistants with no experience or any relationships with the state or conference. *****Quote:
Originally Posted by HailState39110
How many Mississippi guys did Stands have the last few years?Quote:
Originally Posted by quickstrike2
Renardo Sidney- California
Arnette Moultrue- transfer from UTEP
Dee Bost- North Carolina
Brian Bryant?
Jalen Steele?
white guy from Tennessee?
Stewart
Augustus
Swat
Jamont
Hansbrough
looking back- Mississippi guys haven't helped us much lately
This is irrelevant. Basketball recruiting, at a big school, is much more that just in-state. Mizzou recruits nationally, whether you'd like to admit it or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailState39110
But this hire is definitely a head-scratcher at the moment. Kind of reminds me of the Shula hire at Alabama...
or the Tressel hire at Ohio State.Quote:
Originally Posted by missouridawg
Or Bo Ryan at Wisconsin. Really blew up in their face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Our fans would've reacted the same we if we hired a D2 coach as they did when we hired a D1 assistant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Nope, not if the D2 coach was someone who had ties to MSU like a Butch Pierre or someone like that. The guy they hired also had a national championship to his name and has head coaching experience. It's not as much of a head scratcher as some of you might think.Quote:
Originally Posted by C222
I know hiring a head ball coach to be head ball coach sounds complicated, but I promise you other schools put on their big boy britches and do it all the time.
Ask the Missouri fanbase if they like the hire.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
You think hiring a D2 coach at Missoui was "putting on their big boy britches?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
MarketingBully is spot on on this one .Some of you guys should have read this guy's Bio first before you made comments . I hope 34 is not using this to compare our hiring of Ray .If you are it makes our AD look like a real dumbass then.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
Wasn't Wisconsin's coach the reigning D2 national champion when he was hired?
I honestly don't know why D2 to D1 isn't a bigger thing. Often times they're better coaches because they're dealing with shit talent and have to rely on actually coaching.
I'd love to see how Coach Cal would do in D2.
I know Kansas fans were really ticked their administration didn't put their big boy britches on in 1988. Same with Michigan State in 1995.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Roy Williams and Tom Izzo Rick Ray is not. Not even close. Also, wasn't Izzo groomed to take over that position anyway basically? Roy Williams was Dean Smith's right hand man. Hell, while we are at it let's throw in Coach K as you guys seem to do. All of these comparisons are just laughable. They don't hold water Smoot. Give it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I never said they were comparable. Hack tried to make the point that any AD who puts on his 'big boy britches' hires a HC. I proved that was a laughable statement; I didn't mention Ray at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
And no, Rick Ray is not Coach K. But guess what, neither was Coach K when he was hired at Duke. In today's day and age, that hire would have been blasted by media and fans everywhere.
The point is, there is no tried and true formula on how to hire a successful coach; you hire the guy you think is the right guy for the job, you support him, then you wait and see. We're still in wait-and-see mode on Ray.
How the **** would that hire be blasted today? He is a disciple of one of the greatest coaches, pro or amateur, regardless of sport, of all time AND he took a service academy to a postseason tournament as a head coach and left with a winning record.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I'm not saying this to downplay Ray, although I stand firm on him being a bad hire, but he had zero business being hired strictly based on his resume. He may have knocked the interview out of the park, great. He is in over his head and any of us could have looked at his resume and saw this. There's no comparison to Coach K's hiring though. Not even in the same realm.
Wow. Going back 24 years to Roy Williams being hired. That's something. Cell phones and the internet didn't exist back then. Rain Man was the #1 movie in 1988. Your post reminded me of Rain Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
You missed my analogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Political Hack
Former player who played under the long time, most successful coach at the same school is what I was going for...
My point was not so much Mississippi players as in familiar with the SEC and the south recruiting in general. I don't mind Ray and excited to see what he does in his first accountability year next year, but I did not agree with the hire on the basis of his resume and experience. He could very well do a fine job here, time will tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
With this coach Missouri hired, it is a surprise. However, I can see where they made their judgments from. Former assistant at Missouri and Baylor, coached in Missouri and know what it takes to win in the state.
He went 9-17 his last year there and had a record of 73-59 in 5 years. You're kidding yourself if you think it would be anything other than, '?? Duke could have definitely done better than this'.Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
And your point is? Is it that ADs routinely had small britches back then? Or is it that hiring an assistant could be a successful route then but not now? Because neither one would make any sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I didn't have to go back that far. I guarantee you I could find plenty of guys who had a lot of success in their first head gig after being assistant since. Those just happen to be two of the best coaches in the country and were obvious examples to disprove Hack's point.
NC winner Kevin Ollie and Shaka Smart come to mindQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I don't care about other AD's hires. I was making the point that we left our big boy britches sitting next to the diaper drawer when we made this hire. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see this program going anywhere anytime soon under current leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Kevin Ollie was groomed to be Calhoun's replacement. He is more of a comparison to Stansbury then Ray. Smart took over VCU who is known to hire assistants aka Anthony Grant before Smart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Ollie was under Calhoun for all of two years. Regardless of what VCU is known for, they hired an assistant. Mississippi State is known for hiring assistants alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
The facts remain that he was a disciple of arguably the best (top 3) basketball coaches of all time and left a SERVICE ACADEMY with a winning record. Duke obviously did their homework and concluded that there was a reason other than his ability that led them to a bad season his final year there, ala Crean this past season.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Again, there's nothing on Ray's resume that says "hire this guy." He was never an assistant for a hall of fame coach, he never personally affected a super star talent, and he was a bench coach for a program that actively tried to hire Rick Stansbury a couple of seasons ago. Let that sink in. The quicker we realize Ray was probably brought in to be the fall guy for this next administration the more commrodary our fanbase is soon to have.
I don't need to tell you why an 11 year NBA vet is more qualified than Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The hire at Mizzou had also been an assistant at Mizzou on 2 separate occasions with something like 12 years experience on the sidelines at Mizzou. He then went to be at head coach in state where he won a D2 natl title.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully01
I would compare this hire more to a Gus Malzahn type hire than a Rick Ray type hire
Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
You need to do more research on who Rick Ray actually is and what he's actually done -- instead of spewing the Stansbury-faction spun bullshit back to everyone as gospel...
It's one thing to hire your own relatively unknown assistant (a la stans), it's another to hire someone else's. Also vcu is the type of program that should be taking chances on relatively unknown assistants. We are a damn sec program and should be either hiring big time assistants, successful mid major HCs, or successful D2 coaches. We let programs like vcu weed out the unknown assistants that can't cut it, then we go hire them. Or let a guy be coach K's or Roy Williams' right hand man for a few years. Or win a couple of D2 titles/tourney runs. That's how the circle should work. We shouldn't take a risk on an unknown that isn't already in the program and knows the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
NCAA's since 2000- VCU 7 State 6Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgs
Sweet 16's since 2000- VCU 1 State 0
Final Fours- VCU- 1 State 0
Enrollment- VCU- 31K State- less than 20K
Endowment- VCU- 1.3 Billion State- less than 1.3 billion
This aint football- They have as much or more basketball resources than we do- and a much better area to sell school-wise.
There have been some terrible Rick Ray arguments on this board. This may be the worst.
secQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
colonial
/end argument (and kinda nullifies the whole tourney argument since their route through winning their conference was much easier than ours most of the seasons since 2000, even in a weak sec AND 3 of those tourney bids for vcu are arguably their 3 best seasons of all time with the type of coach that usually is going to be looking to step up to a program in a conference like the sec)
regardless, i wasn't saying we had to go the smart route, he's obviously holding out for 1 or 2 select positions or a NBA job, BUT he's not the only mid-major HC with some success. AND there's D2 guys with plenty of success that we could gone after too. if you think the only options after missing on shake smart-types was to go for clemson/purdue unknown assistants, then you have your damn head in the sand. plenty of options between the hottest names in the country and a complete "who the ****?" hire.
I have done my research. Nothing about his resume said he was worth $1m/yr or ready to skipper a program that's won 10 major conference titles. I have zero problems hiring an assistant coach, that's not the part I object to. There are dozens of coaching trees I'd rather poach from than Matt Painter's, and I don't mean offense to Painter. It's just a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
I hope to God I'm wronger than wrong about Ray. I just have a hard problem standing up for a guy because he preaches effort. 99.9% of coaches preach effort. Liking a coach because he preaches effort following Stansbury's career is like the folks who say Stricklin is good ONLY because we used to have LT and he was worse. A lot of stuff is better when compared to shit.
ETA: I realize we're stuck with him for better or worse right now and I still support the team. I witnessed every home game in person that first year (moved away from Starkville following that). It's just a punch to the gut that the team I support through thick and thin hired a guy I can't really get behind hiring in the first place. Maybe I'm off the mark but I can't imagine anyone here wants to see Ray lose.
Of course every coach preaches effort. Not all of them can actually produce it on a consistent basis. Ray has shown at least that much so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by esplanade91
Ray hasnt been given an honest chance to this point. He will this year. We'll see what he is made of. I think we'll be ok this Winter.