Look, Ray could have played Daniels this year and won 6-8 SEC games

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers

I'm actually excited about next year. No more excuses, a full roster, Ray needing to show major improvement, etc. I also can't wait to see how our non conference schedule will look to see if its more challenging or the powder puff non conference schedule we played this year. All of those things combined will make for an interesting year.

Whatever Coach....you guys make him sound like the second coming of Jones and Hood. Name the teams we would have beaten if we added Daniels.

Daniels isn't some huge stud, but he should be a legitimate SEC player. Sword and Ware have the chance to be above-average SEC players next year if they continue to improve. If we can get a couple more players to progress into that 'legitimate' territory, we should be competitive. We'll see. I'm excited, too.

Both home games against Arkansas and Tennessee. Only lost those by 4 and 7 points. Think you could make a case for @Vandy only losing by 6 and only scoring 49 points. There's three right there.

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Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

Both home games against Arkansas and Tennessee. Only lost those by 4 and 7 points. Think you could make a case for @Vandy only losing by 6 and only scoring 49 points. There's three right there.

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Yesterday's game against USCe too.

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

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Agreed. By now we have dead legs. Not enough solid basketball bodies, guys having to play out of position, guys having to play too many minutes. He certainly could have helped that. But I think we did the right thing in not playing him. Two full years of him and Ware together, plus adding Black next year and getting N'Doye in will give us significantly more depth in the post.

I wish we could all just have a rational discussion about the basketball program. The reality is, no one likes where the program is right now. Just because people want to give Ray more time doesn't mean we accept where we are. And just because others think it's time to move on doesn't mean they're just trolling.

The question is, why are we where we are; and what is the best course of action to get us back to where we want to be? Personally, I don't think it's Ray's fault that we are where we are, and I still think there's a chance he is the guy to get us back.

People need to remember that this year didn't really go as planned for him, either. Ideally, we would have had Quantel Denson and Travis Daniels, two guys who could have come in and given us some legitimate size, talent, and scoring ability, and Ndoye to take some of the load off Ware. And going after Denson proves that Ray isn't afraid to go get talent that may have some baggage - he just requires you to follow his rules, and if you can't, you're gone.

But add those 3 guys to this team and suddenly we're actually competitive. But instead of those 3 guys, we had none of them, and then Ready was constantly having to battle through issues.

Sure, obviously if every year becomes, 'Things didn't go as planned,' then it's not an excuse anymore and it means there's an underlying issue. But Daniels and Ndoye are still around, and we'll get a much better picture next year of the kind of talent Ray is bringing in and of his ability to coach guys up. Let's just see how it goes.

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

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Man, I feel better about this season now after all these hypothetical wins.

I agree to an extent with what you are saying Smoot, however with how he recruited he was not recruiting like his job depended on it. Also, shouldn't he of laid off certain players if there was a chance they wouldn't make it here? He had three players that weren't even available in this year's recruiting class. He should have recruited at least three players that he knew would make it to campus and take 1 risk player. He basically took all risk players except Ready and it burned him. He could have used one of those scholarships on KPG and that kid from Piney Woods who went to Ole Miss instead of Daniels and Ndioye and we would have been a better team overall IMO. Instead, we are 7-29 in a very very weak SEC. I just hope all of these risk kids he recruited in his second recruiting class are worth it because he bet a considerable lot on them.

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Originally Posted by missouridawg

Yesterday's game against USCe too.

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and every game in which we got into foul trouble early and had to play Roq at the 5- allowing teams to go on runs and just kill us inside. Having another big body would have been huge- especially one that is as good as Ware or better.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

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Amen

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

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Next year is all Ray. Nobody has ever said different

Believe it when I see it.

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Originally Posted by MarketingBully01

I agree to an extent with what you are saying Smoot, however with how he recruited he was not recruiting like his job depended on it. Also, shouldn't he of laid off certain players if there was a chance they wouldn't make it here? He had three players that weren't even available in this year's recruiting class. He should have recruited at least three players that he knew would make it to campus and take 1 risk player. He basically took all risk players except Ready and it burned him. He could have used one of those scholarships on KPG and that kid from Piney Woods who went to Ole Miss instead of Daniels and Ndioye and we would have been a better team overall IMO. Instead, we are 7-29 in a very very weak SEC. I just hope all of these risk kids he recruited in his second recruiting class are worth it because he bet a considerable lot on them.

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Don't you realize this is shortsighted, though? If Daniels and Ndoye are better in years 2-4 (I know Daniels will only be here for the first two of those) than Geno, then taking Geno would have been a huge mistake. This year wasn't going to matter anyway; it's not like we were going dancing if we had brought in guys who had a better chance to play last year, and clearly we would have been taking less talent...or at least guys further down our board by doing that.

And I don't understand the 'not recruiting like his job depended on it'. We hired him to build the program from the ground up. If we had told him going into year 2 that he better find some band-aids to patch things up because we were going to judge him on this year, then that would have been a botched hire. In order to allow a coach to truly build a program the way he wants to, you have to give him freedom to make decisions that are better for the long-term but may sting a little more in the short-term.

Exactly Smoot and that's the whole point. Ray was told not to go quick-fix but to build the damn program. He's doing what he was hired to do for the most part- now we just have to start winning more games next year

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

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Good post. It Is Rick Ray all the time.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

Exactly Smoot and that's the whole point. Ray was told not to go quick-fix but to build the damn program. He's doing what he was hired to do for the most part- now we just have to start winning more games next year

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I'm sure they didn't mean go out and have the worst two seasons in MSU history. And while you are at it finish last or next to last in every statistic but steals.

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Originally Posted by Intramural All-American

I just hope next year Stansbury's name is not brought up. Next year is completely on Ray in my mind. It's time for him to be held accountable and to show progress. The Stansbury back and forth needs to end.

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Don't hold your breath.

Coach said it was all on Rick Ray next year, no Stansbury bashing, I believe him, why would he say that if he didn't mean it. Goodness, give the man some credit....I assume he means right after we lose er play our games at the SEC tourney. Right Coach?

He might have to go for therapy, but what they heck?

I have to admit, I am not much for message boards except to defend my friends so probably won't be hearing too much from me.

We should have won the South Carolina game with the players we have. We gave up a lot of points in that game with plain old sloppy play. The RAT in the house was a big factor, of course, but if we score or at least have decent possessions following the 3's, then the effect is not so devastating.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench.

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"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

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Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

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He's gonna get 4 years

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Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

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Because playing him for half of this season would leave us with a guy who runs out of eligibility halfway through the 2015-2016 season - playing him this season would have been short-sighted enough fro me to want to go ahead and fire Ray on the theory that he can't see the forest for the trees. Anyone who suggests that Daniels should have played this year isn't thinking it through clearly.

The fact that he isn't feeling any pressure to win amazes me. He is making 1 million dollars a year.

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Originally Posted by RICKRAYMADE

The fact that he isn't feeling any pressure to win amazes me. He is making 1 million dollars a year.

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I don't even know what this means.

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Originally Posted by BiscuitEater

"Why" didn't Ray play him so that ...

1) He could find out 'if' Daniels is able to be a 'Ray team' player 'cause we already know he was not willing to do what it took to pass ONE single math class when it was needed. Instead, Daniels is still an unknown.
2) Ray, instead of regressing in year two, would have showed some improvement and at least had some momentum headed into recruiting and year three.
3) Now, without 'significant' improvement, we have a 'lame duck' that won't get a year four.

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Using the argument that Daniels should have played this year against Ray is insane. There's no coach in the country who would have played him for half this year knowing he would only have him for the first half of 2015-2016.

And claiming that Daniels was 'not willing to do what it took' in regard to passing a class is equally insane.

3's we're not gonna win many that many more games next year, even with the bigger guys coming in. Dunlap is supposedly a shooter but he's only 6'1" and we need more than one shooter, preferrably someone at the 3 that can knock down some outside shots.

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Originally Posted by Coach34

We would have been a much better team with Daniels and Ware inside during SEC play- with Borchert coming off the bench. Roq could have played the 3 some- and we could have actually had a big line-up out there in some games to match other teams. But Ray didnt do that- why?

Because what is best for the long term health of the program- win 3-4 more games this season? Or have Daniels and Ware playing together for the next 2 full seasons? Program building is never easy. But he made the right decision and we'll start seeing the benefits next year

2015 is on Ray and we'll see if he delivers

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BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHHA! GOOD ONE! We are building for the future! taking our lumps now instead of later, I gotcha!

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Originally Posted by Coach34

He's gonna get 4 years

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He's gonna get 4 because this is Mississippi State. It's the same reason we should never have fired his predecessor. Some of you said that others of us were "settling." Well, now I say to you that we currently are "settling." Why should we have to settle for being the worst team in the SEC for 4 straight years without making a move? Don't you have any self-respect? Any coach, and I mean ANY coach, should have been able to get out of the cellar in two years in this horrid division.

Just because we are MSU doesn't mean that you guys have to settle for being the worst program of all time in SEC basketball. You can have a little dignity and pull the plug after two years and an awful outlook. The Browns fired Chud as a head coach after 1 year wasn't it? Why does MSU have to watch the program literally almost have to disband because of the epic terribleness before a move is made?

No one even comes to the games anymore. It's like a ghost town. This is 10 times as bad as it ever was for Stands. At least under Stands, people cared. Now no one gives a flip. Most people don't even check the box scores anymore or have any idea what our record is or who we play next. It's just a dead program.

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

He's gonna get 4 because this is Mississippi State. It's the same reason we should never have fired his predecessor. Some of you said that others of us were "settling." Well, now I say to you that we currently are "settling." Why should we have to settle for being the worst team in the SEC for 4 straight years without making a move? Don't you have any self-respect? Any coach, and I mean ANY coach, should have been able to get out of the cellar in two years in this horrid division.

Just because we are MSU doesn't mean that you guys have to settle for being the worst program of all time in SEC basketball. You can have a little dignity and pull the plug after two years and an awful outlook. The Browns fired Chud as a head coach after 1 year wasn't it? Why does MSU have to watch the program literally almost have to disband because of the epic terribleness before a move is made?

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JohnRick RayCohen will get his four years cause he was the National Championship runner up in baseball last year. That's worth at least 4 years of the worst basketball you'll ever see.

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

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Roq, ware, thomas, bloodman, chicken, ready, cunningham, borchert..then again, I'm a basketball fan at heart.

hilarious... John "Rick Ray" Cohen...I love it.

But shouldn't it be Rick "John Cohen" Ray?

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Originally Posted by TheRef

Roq, ware, thomas, bloodman, chicken, ready, cunningham, borchert..then again, I'm a basketball fan at heart.

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you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

Can anyone name 4 players on this team? Sword...Fred Thomas....isn't there someone named Ware? That's all for me. Don't know what any of them look like except flat top Fred. Why would I care about one of the worst teams in SEC history led by the worst coach in the SEC that gets ripped by 20 plus every single game.

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Quoted proof you should be sitting out this discussion.

Bloodman, Ready
Sword, Davis
Thomas
Borchert, Roquez
Ware

Walk-ons: Moore, Cunningham, De'Runnya, adding Staley next year.

Redshirts: Daniels, NDoye -- giving us a 2nd 5 and a 2nd 4 next year. Iincoming Houston gives us a 2nd 3, while Black gives us a 3rd 4, and Dunlap gives us a 3rd 2.

Incoming: Houston, Black, Dunlap -- and likely one more coming to fill us to 13 players.

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

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So, you are sitting it out from this point forward then? Good.

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Originally Posted by Sandman14

you and the other 54 folks need to keep that gym rocking. I honestly couldn't care less. MSU basketball is tantamount to MSU softball, and has been for the last 2 years, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. I'll check back in when we start winning 20 games a year again (but remember guys, 20 wins doesn't mean anything anymore...how much does 13 wins mean then??).

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I will gladly do so. I'm sorry you could care less about a MSU sport. But hey, to each their own, right? You asked for someone to name more than 4 players on the team, I named 8 so I doubled your challenge. Yeah, it's tough to watch right now. There is no doubt about that. Do I get frustrated? Yes, what fan wouldn't get frustrated. Ray in his press conference today said that he is guaranteeing a full roster next year and that the lack of depth inside was what killed us. I can't argue with that. Next year is NIT or bust for me. I haven't called for RR's head yet this season, but if we don't get NIT next year I will call for his head and will lead the charge on it, if necessary. So I hope and pray I don't have to call for his head next season because that means that the hire was a failure. And don't you start saying "He's already a failure," or "This was the worst hire in MSU history," because we don't know that yet. I've said my peace, I'm done.