Well, the EB is our measuring stick per our admin and donors!

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11-30-2019, 08:54 PM
War Machine Dawg

Here's a common sense question: Why in hell would we give someone a contract with a buyout amount we couldn't pay at a moment's notice? That seems like total incompetence from a business perspective. You don't put yourself in a position where an employee can call your bluff based on money. If we did give Jughead a buyout we couldn't afford, the heads of Spineless Bastard AND Keenum should roll immediately.
11-30-2019, 09:06 PM
the_real_MSU_is_us

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

Here's a common sense question: Why in hell would we give someone a contract with a buyout amount we couldn't pay at a moment's notice? That seems like total incompetence from a business perspective. You don't put yourself in a position where an employee can call your bluff based on money. If we did give Jughead a buyout we couldn't afford, the heads of Spineless Bastard AND Keenum should roll immediately.

I can understand it for a proven coach like Mullen to keep him more happy, BUT not for a guy like Moorhead. Nobody was trying to hire him after an 8-5 year with a team he didn't build. He had no other options and had proven nothing. So why give him the big buyout?

SC did the same with Muschamp. They have to give him another year because his buyout is $18M. WHY??? who is coming after Muschamp and is willing to pay more than SC?

I hear big buyouts are for recruiting, in that they show a coach is safe. 1) I find it hard to believe recruits care about that much since coaches on the hot seat like Gus or Les Miles the year before he was fired pull classes just as good as when nobody was talking about them being fired, 2) I find it hard ot believe recruits really care since often as not programs pay the massive buyouts anyway, and 3) I highly doubt tying yourself to a bad coach is with the potential extra 2-3 recruiting spots vs if you were able to fire him.

Recruiting is literally the only reason I've heard for the big buyouts in cases like Moorhead or Muschamp. Maybe there's something I'm missing and if so I'd love to hear it
11-30-2019, 09:51 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by War Machine Dawg

Here's a common sense question: Why in hell would we give someone a contract with a buyout amount we couldn't pay at a moment's notice? That seems like total incompetence from a business perspective. You don't put yourself in a position where an employee can call your bluff based on money. If we did give Jughead a buyout we couldn't afford, the heads of Spineless Bastard AND Keenum should roll immediately.

It doesn't work like that at nearly every program. Coaches want at least a little leeway. They certainly do here or they won't come, period. Y'all are still under the delusion that we are like Bama or have unlimited funds like A&M. We aren't and we don't.
11-30-2019, 10:04 PM
bobtail bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

It doesn't work like that at nearly every program. Coaches want at least a little leeway. They certainly do here or they won't come, period. Y'all are still under the delusion that we are like Bama or have unlimited funds like A&M. We aren't and we don't.

Didn't jughead come here with no buyout for year one ?
11-30-2019, 11:10 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeardoMSU

Don't ever complain about mediocrity then, especially when mediocrity is your measuring stick.

It's not the only one. It's the first hurdle that has to be cleared, always. Had we beat them in 14 we might have left them dead and buried for a while. We didn't.
11-30-2019, 11:13 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtail bob

Didn't jughead come here with no buyout for year one ?

I think so. I think we would all agree that was highly unusual. He obviously thought he wouldn't fail. Now how he got a fully guaranteed contract after that might be worth looking at.
11-30-2019, 11:18 PM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

I get you sticking with your own sources, but there's several posters on here (no I don't remember usernames) who said they had inside info that Napier was pushing for our job. So I'm going to go with the majority on that.

And again, you haven't countered my logic: WHy would he be turned off by our job if we fired a 6-6 coach vs 5-7? Or are you seriously saying that you want us to keep Moorhead even if we had lost the Egg?

And even then, you haven't said why he'd turn down a $3.5M SEC job to stay at a $1M Sun Belt job when there's very few SEC opportunities on his horizon. That doesn't make sense. Sure he might be wary we'd pull the trigger on him too fast, but again 1) Money talks, 2) his main priority is to ensure he GETS a shot at all in the SEC, and 3) Coaches think they'll succeed. Remember Moorhead saying he wanted to coach against Saban? I highly doubt in his head he meant "I want to get used as 2 minute drill practice at halftime". He was envisioning being competitive because he believed he would be competitive with Saban. Almost all coaches are like that

He might be turned off because he would absolutely know beyond a shadow of a doubt he would only have two years. Only one before people like you turned on him. I hate to break it to you but most coaches that come here will be looking to move on to something bigger. They don't want to get fired after two years. If you are relying on "money talks" here, that is EXACTLY what you will get. I don't expect too many here to understand why that is not a good thing.
12-01-2019, 12:13 AM
bigplayslay

Hahahahaha Commerce don't let that guy get to you. He is one of the least liked people on the whole board.
12-01-2019, 12:16 AM
Liverpooldawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigplayslay

Hahahahaha Commerce don't let that guy get to you. He is one of the least liked people on the whole board.

And proud of it!
12-01-2019, 05:26 PM
dawgs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Did you notice I didn't say it was the only measuring stick? I doubt you did. The fact remains that you will never compete for anything much beyond the Egg if you don't win it way more than you lose it. You have to dominate the state first. We haven't really done it in nearly 100 years. The other thing I'll say in this one is I lived through much, much worse. I still appreciate not getting rolled by Maine. Your mindset is the same mindset we have had forever. You are advocating doing the same sad thing we have always done. You are looking for the messiah of football. It doesn't usually work that way.

This makes no ******* sense. To get better we have to regress as a program and keep the guy responsible for it?
12-01-2019, 05:31 PM
dawgs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Where have you seen me defend Moorhead this year? You haven't. That isn't the only thing that you have to consider when firing a coach in his second year when he is not well below .500. It isn't as simple as y'all want it to be. If it was I wouldn't be arguing with you. All this public whining and bashing is just making it that much harder to get to where we want to go, no matter who the coach is. I wish y'all would cool off and let things play out the way they have to play out....but y'all won't. Y'all won't stop with the tantrums till you get your way, and then other people will have to try to undo the damage you have done, all while listing to y'all bitch about how long it's taking. Same old state.

This is the old CFB mindset. In 2019, things move faster with the influx of big time tv money. G5 guys understand why we'd fire joevester and they'd probably prefer coming into the roster next year than coming in after the talent gets worse and the program gets further away from winning. Much easier to take an underachieving group that finished 6-6 to 8+ Ws quickly than a full rebuild after a 4 W roster goes out and meets expectations.
12-01-2019, 05:40 PM
dawgs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

Ok fair enough. Treat me likewise. I still think your post was really bad though. They went endorsing mediocrity by not firing him. There isn't a whole lot more in play here than just that. We are not a blue blood who can get away with firing somebody after two years with a winning record and it not raise eyebrows. That he is under this kind of pressure already has raised some. I wish we were a blue blood, but we aren't. That is just reality. If he does what y'all think he will next year, and I'm not arguing that point at all, it will look a lot different. It will also be a bit easier to buy him out, provided the rumored contract extension isn't like the current one. If it is, I'll be right there with you when you go after Cohen. My guess is it's an extension without a guarantee beyond what we are already obligated to.

Ok, let's say you are a mom and pop company that makes modest sales and stays afloat. You go out and hire a new sales guy who blows past sales out of the water, allowing your company to grow and resets expectations. Eventually that guy gets poached away by a bigger corporation. That's fine it happens. So you go hire his replacement and sells drop. Maybe not to previous modest level but a significant drop from the peak. Do you keep the new guy cause you used to be a modest little mom and pop shop or do you try to find another guy who can maintain and maybe improve the peak sales?
12-01-2019, 05:45 PM
BeardoMSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liverpooldawg

It's not the only one. It's the first hurdle that has to be cleared, always. Had we beat them in 14 we might have left them dead and buried for a while. We didn't.

Actually, had we beaten Bama, we would've locked up the West...
12-01-2019, 06:24 PM
PMDawg

I don't expect too many here to understand why that is not a good thing.[/QUOTE]

I would bet 6 figures that your IQ is in the bottom third of EliteDawgs regular posters.
12-01-2019, 07:24 PM
bobtail bob

Best thing for MSU would be to take that 17in thing and drive to the square, throw it out with a note that says we don?t want this piece of shit anymore . Then forgets about it. As a Bulldog it doesn?t really really mean that much to me when we get the hell beat out of us by any team with a pulse. Until we set our sights on something bigger we will always be losers in football. It just weighs us down in the mud wallowing with a pig
12-01-2019, 07:36 PM
Homedawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtail bob

Didn't jughead come here with no buyout for year one ?

No. That was inaccurate info. He's had a buyout since day one.
12-01-2019, 07:44 PM
MetEdDawg

So with Matt Luke getting fired, does that mean their measuring stick is the Egg Bowl?
12-01-2019, 08:14 PM
Thick

They’ve lost 7 of the last 11 Egg Bowls, so I’m sure that it plays a part but they need to get those season ticket sales up. This will do that
12-01-2019, 11:13 PM
dawgs

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetEdDawg

So with Matt Luke getting fired, does that mean their measuring stick is the Egg Bowl?

It means Matt Luke was the only guy that'd take the job when they were on probation without a ridiculous contract and buyout, and why pay a ridiculous amount of $$ when no one was gonna win for a few years due to sanctions. Now they are past probation and ready to win again, luke has not proven to be an unexpected wunderkind, so time to spend the money to bring in someone better without the probation cloud hanging over them.

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