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I just think our players and university need to be very particular about what it is that is being championed here. Bc a lot of people are going to have a hard time supporting players and a school that are protesting in the name of Blake. But I think most will be good with supporting a movement that calls for racial equality. How the movement is framed is important.
Here is a novel idea, maybe tackle the suspect since there were two officers following him closely as he walked around the front of his car. Since the officer has his finger already on the trigger, maybe fire a warning shot in the air. How does a situation go from 0-100, with the end result being a human shot 7 times in the back at point blank range?Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Do you care to share with me the point of bullet #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, or #7? Do you think that is excessive force?
Please refrain from answering my questions, as they're rhetorical. I'm not naive to think that any message board or social media post is going to change anyone's mind. We can banter back and forth until we are blue in the face without finding common ground.
To bring this back to the topic, all last year there was post after post after post about the lack of leadership within our football program. You know what I saw yesterday? I saw leadership! I saw Kobe Jones leading from the front. I read where Will Rogers wanted to be front and center in the photos because he wanted to show his support for his teammates that feel disenfranchised. These are young men that have enough courage and spirit to step outside of the confines of their comfort zone to make a statement in a state that doesn't have the greatest history of treating everyone as equal. The responses on here about them and elsewhere is disheartening. We want leadership, but when it doesn't present itself in the way some had imagined - insults and disparaging remarks come flying from every corner.
Growing up ANYTHING in America is the greatest privileged. I think this idea that whites are SO privileged is actually seems like an Anachronism to my daily reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
Seriously, Indian Americans are far wealthier than whites on average. Ever been to a medical school? Walk into a fortune 500 executive board room. there are some whites there. Asians of all stripes are actually way richer, they live in the baller houses of Research Triangle of North Carolina and Mercer county New Jersey. People just assume that whites live there, but that's Asian Tiger Mom turf. Go stand at the exit of a Pfizer corporate building in St Louis at quiting time. You might see a few white dudes. Same at the Oracle HQ in San Francisco.
Literally, we hired 5 interns yesterday from Ivy league colleges. None speak English as a first language, it's a 2nd language they picked up. The #1 prospect decided to join McKinsey, Harvard kid that went to UFlorida for Engineering. He was a Korean American.
Seems like the chatter box is stuck in 1900. Or stuck in college Art and Sociology departments, places where only whites generally hang. They need to go see the happenings in the CS, MBA, and Engineering buildings, other races are doing just fine in America.
I agree with the leadership angle. Said same thing.
The attempt to tase Blake had already occurred and failed. Read the DOJ report.
Firing warning shots? That endangers everyone in the area.
7 shots was unnecessary.
You have a warrant for your arrest and don't comply, get into p physical altercation with the cops, get away, then go get into your vehicle where there is a weapon, good chance you're getting shot.
Our society thinks it's ok to not respect authority. Sad.
Sorry but I can't help myself but to respond to your solutions. Blake had a knife before he went into the car so you want an officer to tackle him and risk being stabbed? I've never heard of such a thing as officers firing warning shots. Police shoot to neutralize the threat. The officer was close enough to be grabbing Blake's shirt from behind so it's not unreasonable to assume that maybe that officer wanted to make sure Blake didn't have the ability to turn around and stab him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
As far as Leach's post I doubt he'd have a job today had he said anything differently. He came close to losing it already.
I have spent 5 years in countries where you are HATED for being American. White, black, brown, green, blue, purple, whatever. If you had that patch on your uniform you were not welcome. The idea that anyone has it bad in the US because of the color of their skin (systematically) is laughable when you actually get out of your little bubble and see the world and what's really out there. So much ignorance from people who can't wait to be the victim in every situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
Thank you for your service!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
I hate to even say that because it looks like I'm fishing for a compliment and I really don't want to be seen as that way. I just can't stand the attitude that was being displayed. I do appreciate your well wishes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
They had already wrestled with the man on the ground on the other side of the car and he broke free, they tased him to no effect, the options left were fairly limited. After all that you can't really expect them to wait to see what he pulls out of the car. Watch the second video that was recorded from someone from the other side it shows all this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
I understand completely. It does show your experiences overseas and defending our liberties and freedoms. It's a great perspective. It's great to see all angles of this and people need to learn from each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Why do our players not boycott, or walk out of practice in solidarity, to protest the actions of their own teammates who have committed offenses? We have had players arrested, but no players seems to be offended that someone they actually share a locker room with is committing crimes. Maybe these athletes (collegiate and professional) are actually just protesting for their right to commit crimes with no consequences. Every time one of our players gets arrested, their teammates seem say things like "I can't believe they arrested you for that bro". Instead they should be saying "You need to be a better citizen and stop that type of behavior. If you are going to be in our locker room, that type of behavior is unacceptable."
Two days ago a murder suspect was surrounded by police in Minneapolis. Instead of facing charges he decided to commit suicide. What did the peaceful BLM and Antifa protestors do? They looted and burned businesses of hard working Americans. That proved beyond any doubt that it's not about police injustices. It's about any opportunity to steal and tear down what hard working white, black, and brown Americans have accomplished. If you support this crap, you are an enemy to me. I will protect what's mine as will any red blooded American, no matter their skin tone.
How do people this soft exist...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroonthirteen
Is it possible to consider you are allowed to objectively approach each situation, assess them independently, and make your own decision? Two things can be true 1) Looting and rioting is wrong and should be punished by federal charges 2) our players supporting the idea of advancement and anti racism is right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardtruth
So now by your logic the entire football team is an enemy to you? I'm not saying every single one of them would be against rioting and protests. Hell, I'm sure some condone it. But I guarantee you there are tons of individuals out there who support the advancement of racial equality in America and condone looting and rioting. It's just amazing to me how both sides feel they have to agree with every talking point their political party spews.
I agree with 1 and 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
That's why it's important to frame the movement correctly (as opposed to it bring a show of support for the actions of Blake).
Pay attention this time. What I said was if you support looting and burning businesses of hard working Americans, you are an enemy of mine. It doesn't matter where you are from, the color of your skin, or where you went to school. Whether or not our players support that, I don't know. I haven't seen where any of them have said exactly what it is they are in support of. If they are going to protest, it might be a good idea to put out a statement saying exactly what it is they support and condemning the parts they don't support. This may save everyone a lot of trouble and make decisions a lot easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
If a cop has to shoot someone 7 times from behind who is not running away (he was walking) to "neutralize" a threat, then they shouldn't be patrolling the streets. The dude had his kids in the car. Is he going to magically disappear, never to resurface? They had to take immediate action and shoot him the back at point blank range at that moment, even though they had yet to act on his outstanding warrants??? Keep justifying it all you want; as I said earlier - no post on this site is going to change anyone's mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Since both of you are so tuned into the situation and subsequent protests, I'm sure you've seen the video of Kyle Rittenhouse. This dude came from another state, armed with a AR15 as a part of a militia (aka "gang") to help "protect businesses". This dude shoots 3 people, killing two of them - walks towards the police and they pass him by - only to arrest him the next day. I'm sure you remember Dylan Roof or James Holmes and their crimes. Why were they given the decency of being treated as a human and not an immediate threat that had to be taken down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Commercecomet24
Here are three examples of white kids that murdered people, yet they aren't as threatening to the cops because of the color of their skin. I'm sorry you can't comprehend the feelings of our players because they grew up differently than both of you - but don't try and rationalize one event while there are countless others that may clue you in on why our players may feel the way they feel.
tried to give rep, have to spread it around more first. Good post my brother!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
How many of those countries operated within a democratic government?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
You don't know how I grew up. If you did you'd realize how dumb that statement was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
It doesn't matter who was in his car his behavior was threatening. I honestly am amazed at how you think this is law enforcement's fault. The facts are laid out bare.
I can already tell from the first few sentences you put out about Kyle Rittenhouse you have very little information to be making the comparisons and statements your are about the 17 y/o young man. Sounds bad when you only say he came from another state but leave out that he lives 20-30 mins away and that happens to be across state lines, but that he works in Kinosha and has family there. This I can't state for a fact but I've heard that it was family of his that owned the dealership he was protecting. Leave out that the first guy he shoots and kills is seen clearly on video earlier that night very aggressive and yelling at the young man to "shoot me n****." That same man also happens to be the same one chasing Kyle through the parking lot and apparently attempting to hit him with what some say looked like a Molotov and others say a brick and when he missed he continued to chase and he got shot. The other two attack Kyle as he's running to the police line. One attacks him with a metal and wooden skateboard over the head and the other actually has a gun pulled out on him. Another interesting tidbit is that all 3 shot have lengthy criminal records.
This thread should be locked after a post like this is made. Growing up in America is the greatest privilege there is in America. A place where we are free to worship any religion we want. Because love is the only thing that will fix our issues. And God is love. Stop making it about race.Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
What a cop out. No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Matt, facts do not matter. It?s always a white man?s fault!
You are such an ambassador of discourse. I wish more people were had level headed as you. LoLz.Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
I'm fuming reading your comment again, and refraining from writing what I want to say. As a devout Christian this absolutely infuriates me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
You call someone a "mf" and then say in another post you're fuming because you're a "devout" christian. LOL! I hope that was satirical!Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
WELP you got me there. I better stop using acronyms for foul language and go back to being angry our football team is protesting racism. Because that's what Jesus would do. Get on the internet and shame our players for standing up against racism. Thanks for setting me back on the right trackQuote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
There is truth in this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcoRubio
Let's be clear. I've seen nobody on here take issue with our players standing up against racism. The only thing I've seen contempt for is the possibility that they were protesting in support of Blake.
Kyle Rittenhouse was there to protect property from being looted and burned by criminals. He was attacked and killed three white thugs in self defense.
Dylan Roof and James Holder are thugs who should have been shot on site.
There is a big difference.
Agreed, Kyle Rittenhouse should be a free man. There's clear evidence the 3 who jumped him were armed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardtruth
If players want to protest police brutality, lack of justice, or racism, then I will stand with them. I am against all of those things.
The problem is when the players protest on behalf of people like Michael Brown. That was police self defense, and justice was served when Officer Wilson was cleared. The players don't need to tie their cause to false narratives and untruths. Because it undermines their cause.
This instance with Jacob Blake may very well fall in that category of justified shooting. The players were very vocal in defense of Jussie Smollett. The bodycam footage of George Floyd showed a different narrative than we were originally told.
I went back and looked through Twitter of some of our players and I never saw Blake mentioned by them in reference to this protest. Maybe some of them's protest was directly related to Blake. Maybe some of them are basing it off of some of their own experiences. And I'm sure some are being reactive to the unrest in America. And I'm sure at least a couple of them just wanted to skip practice. But none of them should have to deal with some of the bullshit spouted about them on social media.
Of FFS, he was there to cause trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhardtruth
I would have to say yeah. The kid was very uniformed. Only an adventurer would walk around inner Kenosha even in regular times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg2003
All major companies and middle class people have moved out decades ago. You have business and civilization in the county of Kenosha but only by the interstate. Inside Kenosha it’s shambling drunks, dive bars, meth teeth, and extreme low riding pants. Basically the entire cast of Shameless, Con Air, and Trainspotting. Even with tax abatement, many businesses rather move to Cambodia, literally. The Double Tree near the Marina is basically permanently empty.
Only Colonel Kurtz and Judge Holden could walk that place trying to protect property during an insurrection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg2003
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSU9ZvnudFEQuote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
I'll add that he worked in Kinosha. Conflicting information whether or not he lived with his mom in Antioch, IL which was a 20-30 drive away or he actually lived in Kinosha. He had family there anyway so definitely not there out of the blue.
Jeebus - you just described just about all of the riverside of Illinois from Cairo to the south side of Chicago. And most of the Missouri along the Ms River. You talk about some depressed hellscape, that's it. Forgotten places that could be sets for Zombieland or The Walking Dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Federalist Engineer
What about my post is infuriating....Quote:
Originally Posted by vv83
I don't think most on here have any problem with anyone expressing their views respectfully. Freedom is for everyone. This cancel culture stuff has to go. I may disagree with some players positions, reasons, etc. but come game day if they bring it for MSU, I'll be cheering. Now if the PC political stuff comes to the field, not supporting that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
Good post and I agree. 7 shots seem too much but he obviously didn't hit on some, no way Blake lives if all 7 hit. Cop is in an intense situation and what he sees as fighting now for his life. Under stress shooting is very inaccurate. Till we walk in a cops shoes hard to judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
I've said before, short answer right now is if I'm a white cop, I ain't going near a black man. They can kill each other in the neighborhood. Lawlessness don't want the law. Defend the law abiders in society. The cops were called in, they were not riding around looking for a black person to shoot. This is where we are in our culture.