Well to be fair, maybe he was used to our offense in conf play... we avg'd 316 yds per gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
ETA... Iowa had 199 total yds. Damn defense blew it!
Well to be fair, maybe he was used to our offense in conf play... we avg'd 316 yds per gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
ETA... Iowa had 199 total yds. Damn defense blew it!
Iowa also averaged giving up 17.8 points per game and 293 yards per game so our offense wasn't too bad against them. UK was a bad game all around. I think it is safe to say that the entire team lost that game including the coaching staff. Fitz looked like he didn't have a clue what to do on offense and they shut down our running game. UK was really good on defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Vs Iowa, we had these scoring drives...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
9 plays. 23 yds. Fg (set up by defense)
3 plays 6 yds td (set up by defense)
1 play 33 yds td (set up special teams)
16 of our 22 points came of this combined drive stat line, 13 plays 62 yds. This was setup by the defense/special teams. Blaming the defense for Iowa is ridiculous
I just don't like the revisionist history, we had a few stinkers with Mullen every year as well outside of the Dak seasons. Joe lost to some great teams last season. No truly unforgivable losses, and unless you feel we had a real shot of winning the Natty, its an above average season. Winning 9 or 10 would have made little difference in the perception of our program. So basically going forward we need to evaluate Joe on his ability to recruit (looks promising), coach offense, and win football games regardless of circumstance. In year 1 he recruited as well or above Mullen Level based on his 10 year average. He was worse on offense then Mullen that is undeniable, but he won more games than Mullen won here on average so that is also in limbo.
Going into this season he has a QB he wanted, the receiver talent is elevated though still not to an acceptable level, this will continue to be pushed in recruiting. Lets see how we do on offense and winning this season before we make sweeping judgement on a guy in his first year. Hell Jimbo has a Natty and Joe smoked him and A&M has alot of stockpiled talent. Joe seems to make good hires for his staff and is if nothing else a good leader of men. Gotta stop comparing Joe to Mullen who was maybe the best coach in our history with a lengthy tenure.
I think we improve offensively enough to match last season, with some luck maybe we get more. Shoop was a home run hire and hope we can keep him here for a while.
I didn't blame the defense, I just said the overall offense wasn't too bad. Offensive turnovers and a few big plays on defense are pretty much the turning point in that game. It isn't a surprise that our offense struggled against Really GOOD to GREAT defenses. I will say when we struggled, it was bad. Joe has to fix that this year but let's not act like Mullen never scored under 10 points in a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
The worst scoring defense we lost to is LSU at #26. The worst total defense we lost to was UF at #28. So it isn't like we lost to a crap team. The UF game is the worst loss because it was at home. Of course they also ended up #7 in the country so it isn't like losing to a bad team.
The Mullen worshippers on here don't seem to remember any games like 2017 UGA or AU where we struggled to do anything on offense. Over Mullen's 9 years, he was close to 30 points per game and Moorhead last year was at 28.5 with a brand new offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
In 2018 vs conf only opponents, we were 119th out of 129 conf teams in the nation, 92nd percentile of ineptitude of conf only scoring offense. 90th percentile is as bad as we've been since at least croomQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I think everybody remembers those games just fine...and plenty of people weren't happy about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
At the same time, it was only twice, both those teams were great teams, they were both on the road, our QB was a year younger, and our offense did well in other tough games, like Bama and LSU that year.
All of the games you point to were on the road except UF. Bama and LSU had big time players injured on their defense and those games were at home. As far as the QB, Fitz definitely took a big step back and was coming off of a bad injury where he didn't take live snaps until August. 2018 UK's defense = 2017 UGA defense in almost every way statistically.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Also most would argue Nick was a better and more willing runner before the injury. Bama was an anomaly that season they were injured at multiple key positions. Joe also had decent games against AU and A&M the records were the same for a reason. I am not saying Joe is better than Mullen, but he had 0 bad losses and didnt lose to a shit Ole Miss team to end the season. Also had Joe got a layup like Louisville with Peter Sirmon in the bowl game he gets the same 9-4 record and most of the annoyance of early losses goes out the window.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Sadly we got a seasoned Iowa team that capitalized on our many turnovers, which normally do not fall on coaching.
Total def: Kentucky 23rd, Georgia 6thQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Yds/play: Kentucky 57th, Georgia 10th
Scoring: Kentucky 6th, Georgia 6th
Keep in mind, Georgia had to face auburn, Bama, Oklahoma in their last 3 postseason games
He lost to zero bad teams, but the UK and Florida losses were bad simply because of the way he and the team were completely unprepared. I'm optimistic about Moorhead based on the way we dominated mediocre defenses even though I'm not sure we had a receiver that would have seen regular snaps for any of the top say 8 WR corps in the SEC. But he shit the bed against UK and UF. There were mitigating factors (UK on the road, we were overly hyped and overly confident, it was raining, etc, UF was against good team with coaches that new our personnel), but there's not much argument that he and the team (or at least the part he was primarily responsible for) shit the bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Sure I am not arguing that in anyway those games in my opinion with our defense were winnable with a decent offense. We did not get that in either game, but I also watched plenty of perfectly drawn up plays get botched by our receivers and QB. We should have an offensive leap in year 2 if we don't with Joe having a QB he brought in like Stevens I will be concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
Those stats were against NIU Huskies, Iowa State, Northern Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Indiana, Maryland, Penn State, Purdue, Norhwestern, Illinois, and Nebraska. They held Wisconsin to 28, which was their 6th lowest scoring total in 13 games. They gave up 30 @Penn State which, was their 7th lowest scoring game in 13 games. They gave up 38 @Purdue. They gave up 31 v.Nebraska. They gave up 31 @Minnesota.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
They certainly were a well coached defense and had some decent talent, but I'm not sure they even stand out as above average in the SEC and looking at what other people managed to score on them, us scoring only 27 when helped out by a defense that held them to 200 yards is pretty bad.
Nm
i don't blame mullen for that. His system was about spreading the field horizontally not vertically. most of our guys could catch on the line of scrimmage or catch speed sweeps or be using in the option game. Mullen recruited athletes. guys that could break open the field in space with the ball in their hands. he didn't recruit them to go down the field and catch. just a difference in strategy and the players he recruited for that strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Lambert
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by trojandawg
This is difference in the WR commits we have now, versus what Mullen (and Gonzalez) were trying to get on campus. You can't have a bunch of Percy Harvin type of receivers and expect to go vertical. As someone in another thread stated, had Moorhead followed message board advice - he'd be in year 1 of implementing his system because he would have adapted his style to Mullen last year. Instead, we are in year 2 of his system - which I think has a higher ceiling for our overall program.
Agree, can't blame D for those 2 losses. Gave up a couple a big plays but didn't give up any all year. If anyone complains about D performance from last year, I just don't know how to help you and Lord help you the next couple years.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Also, do not ever forget the officiating in the Ky game. We were hosed, period.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I wouldn't call UK and FL or Iowa great teams; good yes, not great. All teams talent wise we should have beat, with any coach in my MSU lifetime except maybe one. Jo laid an egg and yes Mullen laid some as well. Right now Mullen only ahead of Jo due to time and 2014 and that is about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Boy you are correct, we got the shaft and the D basically quit at the end after the BS calls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
You must be really young if you think any coach in our history wins those two games. Hate to break it to you but FL finished #7 and KY finished #12 that would be defined as two great teams by any measure. KY was during a monsoon where we faced our first adversity of the season. Joe and company got punched in the mouth and didn't adjust but don't diminish the team KY had because of our shortcomings. Mullen knew our team better than Joe and exploited it, he had 3-4 years with these players Joe had 6 months that is the main reason we lost to Florida. 2014 was a magical year climbing to #1 but in the end we still finished with 3 losses and blew our only shot at beating a Bama Team led by a converted RB named Blake Sims.Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
I am willing to give Joe time to bring in WRs and a QB that fit the passing mold he is striving for. If he fails well I am sure the board knows plenty of replacement candidates that would jump at the jump. Even though coordinators in P5 turned us down before Joe. Joe is bringing in better lineman, better WR, and better QB prospects than Dan. It will fall on development and our S&C staff going forward. Those are the two best aspects of Mullen running the show.
While I fully understand that Mullet recruited and deserves credit for 3 #1 NFL DEFENSIVE picks; He also gets the blame for recruiting 50% passing QBs, receivers with stone hands, and last years 8-5 record.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I fully supported Mullet UNTIL he started using Novembers to job search instead of coaching 'his' Mississippi State.
Please explain what you don't understand with that logic.
Don't be an ole miss guy. We got our ass whipped. Just own it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Percho
Again, if we don't lose to them, they aren't ranked that high. And we shouldn't have lost to either of them. Those weren't great teams by any stretch. Bama great. After that we didn't play a great team. Not one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater
So are you saying Mullen was responsible for UF not having any first-rounders on their team last year? By that logic, you are implying Joe is responsible for the three we had last year.
But, but it was raining.***Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
He's talking outside both sides of his biscuit eating mouth. I'm just moving on to the next argument lolQuote:
Originally Posted by StateDawg44
Biscuit eating mouth lolololQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
They both won 10 games we are not the only team they beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
And the other 9 weren't great either. Fact is we lost to them, which boosted their rankings in both cases. You can't argue w that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Well yeah that's how rankings work. Doesn't mean they were not great teams. Hell how many 10 win seasons do we have..... Was that not a great team in 2014? I guess you could argue we were boosted by a similar Auburn, A&M, and LSU that year. So by your argument Mullen didn't ever really do anything special here so why so down on Joe? We werefortunate enough to be boosted by the rankings and beating teams that were similar to 2018 versions of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Percy Harvin caught 133 passes, rushed for 1852 yards, had 32 TDs in only 3 years at Florida. Please list the 'bunch of Percy Harvin type receivers' Mullet recruited to MSU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gutter Cobreh
Comparing us of 14 and uk and uf last year is beyond laughable. And I'm not trying to bring joe down, just stating the facts. I hope we win every game. But just because I don't agree w all the sunshine pumpers doesn't mean I'm trying to bring joe down. He works hard. And gets paid pretty well. If he can't handle a message board guy or two "putting him down" then I can't help you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Yeah but your not seeing the fallacy in your arguments. UF last year lost to GA, KY, and Mizzou. Only bad loss was Mizzou who was 8-5. Compare that to our 2014 season we lost to Bama, OM, and GT first two you can excuse I guess, but Ole Miss did finish by losing 4 of 6 in blowout fashion no worries though they kicked us up and down the field. GT who loses every bowl game because with time to prepare the triple option cant beat you with gap and eye discipline. But that was on Geoff right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Our 2014 run was a great offense and opportunistic defense. KY great defense opportunistic offense this year. FL pretty balanced team overall our best team in the last 30 years would have won in all likelihood but only due to Dak not because that team was far superior.
Comparing us of 14 and uk and uf last year is beyond laughable. And I'm not trying to bring joe down, just stating the facts. I hope we win every game. But just because I don't agree w all the sunshine pumpers doesn't mean I'm trying to bring joe down. He works hard. And gets paid pretty well. If he can't handle a message board guy or two "putting him down" then I can't help you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
In the sense that Geoff wasn't there. We lost that Ga Tech game b/c we didn't have a DC. We lost the UM game partly because our offense was unprepared, and partly because our best free safety couldn't stop harassing a girl and our second best free safety got injured on the first drive, and we didn't have a good enough option behind that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Upsets are always possible obviously, but our 2014 team, at least as it existed prior to the UM game, would have won both those games most likely. We unfortunately weren't as good by the end of 2014 as we were at the beginning, partly because of injuries, and partly because Josh Robinson got in the habit of not taking what was there and trying to bounce everything to the outside. Our most effective running back against Ole Miss and Ga TEch was Shumpert, and no knock on him, but he wasn't close to the talent Josh was; he was just willing to take what was there. Neither UK nor Florida this year were what Bama or even Ole Miss were that year. Ole Miss's defense was as good as UK's this year but they had a better offense. Even if our 2014 had played UK without either of our top two free safeties, I'm not sure UK would have had the talent to make us pay the way UM did with their TE. I would say UF is in a similar boat although maybe they would have been more likely to knock off the post UM version of the 2014 team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scared_Hitless
Meh....Our offense got their ass whipped. Our defense pretty much whipped their ass for three quarters, but they got two scores gifted to them early by the referees. Our D probably gets worn down by the end regardless, but without the two bad calls on scoring drives, maybe it plays out differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Also that Ole Miss team your referencing lost the week before us to a 6-6 Arkansas team 30-0. I am just saying if a team gets 10 wins in the SEC they are a great team. We lost to a crippled Bo Wallace because we couldn't cover Evan Engram and gave up a terrible school yard TD to Walton. That Ole Miss team had quit and we had everything on the line and choked scoring 17 with the best player in school history. FL and KY were better than the Ole Miss team we played in 2014 by the time we played them. Hell they lost 42-3 a few weeks later in the Peach Bowl. Bama was good, but that was the most vunerable they have been or ever will be again with Saban at the helm. Should have beat GT regardless of Collins leaving that loss was inexcusable and knocked us from the top 10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnson85
I think Dan is a great coach and I never wanted him to leave, but Joe has done nothing to show he is inferior at this juncture. I am willing to wait on see what Stevens and co do this year. We may never have another Dak, or another 2018 Defense to drag a team to greatness and that is something both Joe and Dan have to live with knowing how rare both were and they didn't get the job done.
In stature, not in production. I suppose I should have been a little more clear for those reading who couldn't infer what I was referencing. My apologies.Quote:
Originally Posted by BiscuitEater