What an attractive coaching job.... Come be our coach! But you better accomplish more than any coach has in our history, or your ass is gone, bitch! (channeling my inner Jesse)Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
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What an attractive coaching job.... Come be our coach! But you better accomplish more than any coach has in our history, or your ass is gone, bitch! (channeling my inner Jesse)Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
And this makes sense if that is the stance that is being taken right nowQuote:
Originally Posted by Martianlander
Doubt he'd get fired even then, unless there were off-the-field issues as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiedawg
Fact is, you don't fire a coach after one down year unless you're Alabama or Texas or USC. You just don't. No one wants to take a job in the most competitive conference in football at a average to above average program knowing that one down year is all you get, especially since the level of competition is so high that a few minor slipups can turn a 8-4 season into a 5-7 season. If we had the prestige of the big programs or the deep pockets, it might be different.
But it isn't. Mullen is all but guaranteed another chance next year.
The problem is it is 1 and1/2 down years if we lose out. Croom could have got us to a bowl last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
Lifetime contract if you can just win 7 of 18.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDawg
Yeah -- I'd call that pretty damn attractive.
Sadly this is 100% true.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
Brian Johnson of AC/DC? SweetQuote:
Originally Posted by Dawgfan77
Say what? There are 50ish teams that can and do fire coaches for one losing season. Nevermind a dumpster fire half of a season to end -- followed by a losing season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
This "no one will want to take the job" line is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are in the SEC and can offer a top 20 salary. As such, we can name the midmajor coach from now for all eternity. If people are scared to come here because they can't go 7-5 40% of the time, they aren't the right people for the job period.
People acting like we wouldn't be a pretty hot commodity on the free market right now are kidding themselves. "New money" school -- with brand new facilities -- starved for success -- with a roster situation that tees up the first couple of years for a new coach. We aren't a "dumpster fire rebuild". That changes everything in a coaching search.
We were in the Gator Bowl last year- that's not a down year at Mississippi StateQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
As to the stupid comment about Crooms- no way we beat Troy, Tennessee...maybe even losing to Auburn with him. We're talking about a coach that never averaged 300 yards of total offense for a season.
But sadly this is the mentality of a large portion of our fanbase.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Well, unless you are part of the Administration, which you are not, then it is a speculation thread. If you are good friends with whoever told you that shit about us keeping Dan, then he probably knows that you run a damn message board. He isn't going to tell you if they are considering firing Mullen with 3 games left, I wouldn't imagine. I doubt anyone in the Athl Dep would say that to anybody right now. And besides, you yourself said that Administration wouldn't be making that call, the money boys would. So all in all, I view this thread as a propaganda piece to help push your defense of Mullen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Just don't be surprised if someone on this board happens to run in to a member of Admin tomorrow at the Bryan Building, and they tell him that Mullen will get fired if he loses to ole miss. And when they post it on here, it shouldn't be locked, because it is not speculation...it is a "stance the admin is taking" thread. I mean after all, they could have a better source inside the admin than you do, right?
See how that works. This thread is a prime example of NOT "letting the season play out", by the Mullen defender side. It's a double standard, and it appears that nobody is buying it regardless if it's true or not. Had you not been defending Mullen like he was your long lost brother for the past month, it would be a lot more believable to those that aren't buying it.
Good grief. So you are just ignoring the fact that we shut it down last year after starting 7-0? Just took the second half of the season off basically. Everybody that says "it's one bad season" is just not paying attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
Because of how the basketball search went. Yet, they aren't cognizant of their approach becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
We let our basketball program be driven TOTALLY into the ground in terms of what we had coming back -- with obvious attitude and drug issues -- necessitating a multi-year rebuild from dumpster fire status.
Yet, they are in favor of giving the football program EVERY opportunity to reach dumpster fire status before making a change -- thus CREATING the same hiring environment of the basketball search all over again -- and also creating, to a smaller extent, the same limitations. At MSU -- we never collectively learn from what we did wrong before -- thus we never move forward.
I contend that IF we had gotten rid of Stansbury a year sooner -- with what we had coming back and coming in -- we would have been a VERY attractive situation for a prospective coach, could have likely salvaged the Hood/Gardner/Deville class, and the basketball program likely goes dancing in year 1 under the new guy -- with a nice base and core for the future. That one extra "chance to right the ship" DESTROYED us -- and it cost us AT LEAST 3 YEARS.
All that said -- I'm all for letting the season play out. Mullen gave me a SLIVER of hope in the aTm game for the first time in awhile -- and it's more than fair to see where it leads. He beats Arky and OM -- he's got to stay. He loses either -- he's got to go.
1. I think the Admin wants this stance out there- and wants the speculation to end. That's why it was told to me with "I dont care if you post it or not"Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
2. Engie said the Money Boys are making this call- not me. And that is who is going to have to step in to make it happen it looks like. The Admin looks to be moving forward with Mullen.
Ha, I laughed at thisQuote:
Originally Posted by DownwardDawg
Fair enough. Both good points, and I can agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
And I apologize, I thought you said that bolded part
I believe that someone told you this...but it just seems odd for someone to say that so early. There will be a pretty large backlash on Mullen if he loses the Egg Bowl two times in a row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
In MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl is a bowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
I know you want him gone and I know it pisses you off because it isn't happening, but it's not life we have the money or prestige to upgrade after a single losing season.
Yep. We are about to let that happen to football. Because all,these same people that say, "scant fire Mullen after!one bad year", will be fed up with Mullen's shit when he only wins 6 with an easy schedule next year. So then, if we fire him after next year, we look like an even worse job because we are firing him after a WINNING season instead of doing in when we should do it, which is after a losing season this year. I bet none of you, "Mullen deserves one more year" guys have thought beyond this season though.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
In other words, I'm going to avoid answering the question or discussing what he just pointed out about my previous post, and instead just say something about what he thinks. Good try, but you avoided the topic of discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
You JUST said "in MSU's history, a bowl is a bowl". So in other words, you don't give a rats ass who we beat to achieve the bowl, how bad we looked doing it, or anything that is happening on the field...just as long as we make a bowl. What a mediocre accepting mentality. We've never been a consistent winner in o ur history, so don't you think we may ought to start trying to do things differently?
You guys kill me with this, "we don't do things that way at MSU" and then you wonder why we suck 2 years later. It's because we keep doing the same dumb shit year after year after year. There's a reason we can't be good and stay good, and it's because of mentalities like yours where we just stick our head in the sand until a coach drives a program completely into the ground before we decide to do anything about it.
This isn't about what I want...this is about me pointing out the flaws in your stance, and wanting what is best for MSU. Look beyond the current and into the future of this program. Recruiting is going down, wins are going down, on field decisions are getting worse, etc... What makes you think a switch is going to flip and we will turn the clock back to 2010?
It's not like this year is the only year we can hire a new coach. The argument that if we don't fire Mullen right away then we've accepted Mediocrity is kind of stupid. Even Florida fans, who are the craziest of crazy, are going to give Muschamp another year. If next year we don't see improvement then you just part ways.
I feel pretty confident that changes if necessary will be made within the staff and the change back to a more Florida type Offense is already taking place which I think should help. This all just reminds me of the Fire Cohen movement.
Obviously the admin is going to try to control the message and maintain positivity by putting out the word that Mullen is completely safe. They just want everyone to shut up about it and dissipate all the negativity by getting people to support Mullen until the end of the season. So they've told the media and everyone else that Mullen is safe so they'll get the word out. But if we go 4-8 he is gone - there is just no doubt about it, that's completely unacceptable in today's SEC with all the advantages with regards to money, recruiting, etc. the SEC provides us. Stricklin has the balls to do it, he fired our winningest basketball coach after a 20 win season when the crowd was about 50/50 on that as well.
100% of this is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
70 teams make bowls now. Glad we can finish in the top 70 3 of 5 times**
Don't have the money or prestige? Ridiculous. The better question is -- do we have the money to keep him? We finish with a loss in the Egg and don't make a bowl, we won't be selling out season tickets in the freshly expanded Davis Wade -- and may not even sell out the Clubs.
My stance doesn't change because you invent "flaws." No, I don't believe that we are an elite team, but that doesn't mean I don't want us to be. No, I'm not ignoring the finish of last season, but other than the bowl and the Egg Bowl, there wasn't a bad loss and we played alot of GOOD teams. No, I don't believe that firing Mullen is "best for MSU," mainly because I am pretty certain that we aren't going to get an improvement in coaching by cutting our most successful coach in recent history after one losing season. No, I don't believe that our recruiting is getting worse (although I don't think it's getting better).Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
All I'm saying is that cutting Mullen loose now would be the worst thing we could do for the program. If we EVER want to have sustained coaching success, we have to create a pattern of support and not cutting our losses as soon as things go poorly. Let's say we do fire him this year and somehow the almighty HUD comes in and has a winning season. Why would he want to stick around if a big boy gives him another offer? Answer: He wouldn't. Why stick around somewhere where you might get run out of town the next year and have NO job when you can go to a better school with more money today where you are pretty sure you'll get a few years at least.If we start firing our successful coaches because of down years, we will become a springboard for coaches to move from the ULLs of the world to the UFs of the world.
This all sounds like planted information to me.
I know you are just the messenger, but it seems awfully convenient that they want to get the message out that Mullen is safe AND Hud is headed somewhere else.
Color me suspicious.
If we finish with a loss in the Egg Bowl, we won't be selling out DWS no matter who the coach is. And firing Mullen isn't going to get us an upgrade in the coaching department.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
We aren't getting Hud.
Just curious, were you on the fire Cohen bandwagon last year?
I hope this isn't the feelings of a majority of our fans. If it is, then we deserve to be mediocre, and none of you should be upset when we lose or when we underachieve. Hell, that's all you expect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madkinmecrazy
There is so much fail in your post, that I didn't feel like dissecting it
YepQuote:
Originally Posted by SignalToNoise
There is no chance in hell he comes back if we lose out, I don't think theres any chance he comes back if we lose to Ole Miss. If he does, expect to see a brand new expansion only about halfway filled at the most.
I vote to have the term "dumpster fire" banned from this board. I feel like it has run it's course... we should be more creative than that.
In general, I would agree with this. But what do you do when he goes 6-6 next year in spite of an 8-win schedule? Can you fire a bowl coach at MSU? I say you can't. Talk about "hard to hire a coach at MSU" -- what happens if you fire him then? So, in spite of a 2ish-game underperformance for THREE straight years --likely with 3 straight losses in the Egg -- and 3 straight OM dominated recruiting classes -- he's coming back for the 4th year.Quote:
Originally Posted by EAVdog
This is ridiculous to even say at this point. Muschamp is not any more guaranteed another year than Mullen is. He gets blown out by FSU -- heads are going to roll. Fact is -- he was also a gnats ass away from playing for a National Title last year.Quote:
Even Florida fans, who are the craziest of crazy, are going to give Muschamp another year. If next year we don't see improvement then you just part ways.
Why would he suddenly "fix" this -- after the problems have been obvious since 2011? LAST YEAR was the window to make staff changes. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to make our problems any more obvious than they became in the final 6 last year. Are our problems as obvious to you this year? Because they aren't as obvious to me. Not beyond Dan's on-field ridiculous playcalling, clock-management, and personnel usage -- which is ALL on him.Quote:
I feel pretty confident that changes if necessary will be made within the staff and the change back to a more Florida type Offense is already taking place which I think should help.
I don't see any similarities at all.Quote:
This all just reminds me of the Fire Cohen movement.
Lifetime contract my ass.... Do it this year, but have a down year the next? Yo ass is on the hotseat and half the fanbase will turn against you. Not only do you have to do better than any coach has ever been able to do in our history, you have to outdo YOURSELF and then repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
"So you've taken us to more bowl games in a shorter time than any coach in our history? Who gives a shit. You had a down year. MSU should NEVER have a down year! Your ass is gone, bitch!"
Better invest those 7-figures wisely. Because in 4-5 years you will lose it and never earn that much again in your lifetime. If I was a young coach (read: not within 10 years of retirement) I wouldn't touch MSU and it's deluded, fickle fanbase with a 10 foot pole.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Our fans bitched about going to the damn Gator Bowl- that's insane for our people supporting our program to act like that
I will bet all my vcash Dan is back next year regardless of what happens this year.
We DONT fire coaches who have had decent success. Look at our history.
Yep, and that's why we never maintain any success. We'll keep him, and then 2 years from now we'll be rebuilding. Rinse, repeatQuote:
Originally Posted by Drugdog
2 years from now the best two recruiting classes in a long damn time at MSU will be Jrs. and Srs.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
How do you fire a coach for going 6-6, you call him in your office and tell him his services are no longer needed. But you do that from a position of strength. You do that knowing you have a great replacement. Not firing your coach in haste and hoping you can get a Sunbelt Coach to sign on. I think Hud is a good coach but folks who think that is the best we can do are the ones with the Mediocrity Complex.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Foley just came out and gave the same assurances that this message from the AD's office is putting out. No coaches job is assured from week to week. Florida expects to be in the National Championship hunt every year, not being whipped by Vandy at home. Foley knows that there is a point where even talking about change is more destructive than the actual change. Something our fans can't figure out.
So you have forgotten we beat Arkansas last year, pretty handily I might add. If you can't see that Mullen is already making the changes required to correct the offense than I don't know what to say. Look at our QB recruits, do you see any Tyler Russell types? Look at our RB recruits they look a whole lot more like Anthony Dixon/Vick Ballard types don't they? Look at last year's class (and don't worry about Ole Miss for a second). Mullen's main fault is being too self assured, he thought he could transition our team to a passing spread to better fit Russell's abilities. The closest thing we had to the true Florida Zone Read Option was when Relf was healthy. The Offense clicked then and we were able to move the ball, control the clock, convert third downs, and had a good red zone scoring percentage. These have all been issues. However if you dig deeper than just wins and losses and look at our Offensive production this year it's been pretty exceptional. If we take that forward with the younger talent next year and a QB that really fits the system than we should see a 2010 like team/year. We know Mullen can produce those results from prior experience. If he doesn't next year then fire him. Pretty simple.
Croom was 7-4 when he went to the Liberty Bowl. Troy DOMINATED us in every category but the scoreboard (we won by 6 after scoring on a 4th down TD). UT we won on Banks making an once in a career fumble strip and recovery. Auburn was on the way to quitting on their coach. If Croom had Tyler at QB he might win those. I don't think us completely shitting the bed the last 5 games is automatically ignored because we were in the Gator Bowl. We wouldn't have been in the Gator Bowl if Ark didn't quit on their coach. You realize almost every coach that lost to Mullen got fired right? That tells you those coaches were probably underperforming with their players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
We also fired our basketball coach after winning 20 games. We didn't give him an opportunity to get the team straight after getting rid of Bost and Sidney.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34