Wasn't graveman 8th round and got 5k?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
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Wasn't graveman 8th round and got 5k?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Neither of those is $400k. Shitload of difference between $400k and $300k. What is your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Lul.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
Still taxes hits it and it becomes $150k vs $200k....I'd say there isn't that much of a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
It's funny, you have this idea that I post for no other reason than to troll, then you post stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by I seen it dawg
You seem cool.
Thanks for the link, that is pretty shocking, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
But even in that article, it doesn't seem like Cannizaro factored into the decision much. I'm not saying he didn't, but I just don't buy into a coach being able to talk guys into coming back that would otherwise leave.
You may find certain guys who really want to stay in school over the money, but I don't think you're going to 'convert' guys just through the power of persuasion.
Don't know if it was that low. But it was paltry compared to what a junior would have gotten in that spot, or what he actually deserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That is insane to get players to turn down that kind of money. Now with the ability to finish your degree online or distance learning, it makes coming back to school even harder unless you are getting an engineering degree or something like Graveman.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
That's what he got. Most seniors get basically that, no matter where they're drafted. It's what Robertson and Freeman will get.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
You just have no other options to fall back on, and teams know that. So it's either sign for this tiny sum, or good luck catching on with an independent team somewhere.
Dang, I knew it was low, I was thinking $50k though. That's brutalQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Yep, 5kQuote:
Originally Posted by WeWonItAll(Most)
http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/oakland-a...cash-earnings/
Freeman and Robertson dumb
I don't think it's dumb if you come back have a year more of competing in the SEC under your belt and it puts you in a better position in the draft to make the league. The money is what it is a signing bonus. If Kruger comes back and say is drafted in the first three rounds this year and got a fraction of what he had in the 20th round the year before but he is in a better position to make the league it was a better decision overall even though he missed out on a little more money in the short term. Graveman got $5k but where he was drafted had a better trajectory to make the majors and now makes $500k a year. It's all perspective and really depends on your individual situation. Drafted in the 20th-40th rounds does not lend itself to a very good track to make the majors anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
We just disagree on this. The odds of any player making the show are poor. I think if a team is willing to pay you 6 figures as a college junior, you should take it if you wanna try to play MLB bc you get peanuts as a seniorQuote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
It's been stated multiple times on the LSU message boards that a lot of them came back to have another year with Cann. It was a huge shock when Cann left them to come here. Robertson has credited Cann with his hitting development and even when LSU was here last weekend talked with Cann about his swing and what tips Cann had to improve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
That 50k difference is still about 2.5 years worth of after-tax take home pay on a minor league baseball salary. That is substantial no matter how you look at it, and could easily be the difference in staying or going for any given player, depending on his personal situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
I just think Cohen's approach was piss poor in A) getting more of his recruits here, B) developing players so we get three years instead of just the one year, and C) talking some of the tweener players into coming back for their senior years. Our fans adopted this philosophy that you can't do those things well at poor ol MSU since Cohen did so shittily at it. It's precisely why we could never become extremely consistent and why we would have great years followed by poor years. I personally think this is where Cann will excel and will get us that consistency that we have been wanting for a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
It's not just at State that those things don't happen. They don't happen with regularity anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Cann may excel in those, but if he does, it means he's the outlier, not Cohen. And if so, we're going to dominate college baseball.
Which is where we should be. Dominating college baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I'm all for it. Just hope we're not setting expectations too high.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
How much of a bonus do you think Graveman would have gotten as a 36th round draft pick? Probably no more and likely less than 5K.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I pretty much laid out what the reasonable expectations are in this thread. 1-12 not likely, 12-20 around 50% chance and 21-40 most likely coming back.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I'm talking about guys like freeman and Robertson that turned down multiple 6 figures. They'll pay financially for that while playing MiLB. Obviously if you don't have that type of money on the table, coming back to school can be a much better decisionQuote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Yeah but again if they get to MLB sooner because they're more developed and get to MLB quicker it offsets that pretty quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I was talking in general about Cann and his ability to get top draft picks and college juniors to come to State.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
And I think Marketing would disagree with you on 12-20 being a 50/50 shot. I would generally agree, though I would lean to under 50%.
Is a college senior more likely to get to MLB faster than if he had come out a year earlier? I seriously doubt that is the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
We've been so bad at retention I think it skews the perception of what would be normal. If people are expecting Cann to keep Dakota Hudson and Brent Rooker then they're going to be disappointed. Of they're expecting to keep Gridley then the expectations are reasonable.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
It depends on how good they play. I've seen guys go from rookie ball to AA the same year that they are drafted if they are advanced enough as a player. Graveman was in MLB the next year after being drafted.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I just put on my tin-foil hat to help me cook up a conspiracy here...I think you have some meathead baseball lovers in Baton Rouge that gave the players some money to stick around. When it comes to LSU-baseball, they are typically fighting with guns and MSU is still with bows and arrows. They don't mess around with winning and the rules we follow are probably a joke to them. Their coaches were juicing players with steroids for gorilla ball back in the 1990's, why not give money in 2010'sQuote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Remember MSUs John Harden (155 lbs) vs Lyle Mouton (6-4 240), Gary Hymel? Even Rick Cleveland wrote a David vs Goliath article about it. Back when the CL was not cover-to-cover fake news.
I personally know an ex-Arizona player that had to turn down offers from LSU coaches to get him juiced up for summer ball.
I'm not expecting to keep top 2 round guys BUT I do expect more then one great year out of them. If we can follow the same trajectory as Pilk for all of our top level prospects, that would be a huge step in the right direction. We really only got one great year out of players like Hudson and Renfroe as examples.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
But you lose a year of minor league development by coming back as well. So you may advance more quickly once you're drafted if you come out as a senior, but you're not likely to get there even faster than you would have had you come out as a junior in absolute terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Graveman debuted late in 2014. Do you think it would have taken him until at least 2015 to see the majors if he had come out in 2012 rather than 2013?
Some of that is due to the kind of player we went after. Generally speaking, if you want to end up with a huge stud in college baseball, you've got to take someone who's really raw out of HS; otherwise, they would be drafted high enough that you won't get them. So those guys will obviously take longer to develop, but once they do, they're huge beasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketingBully
Rooker was the same way. We got two years out of him because he redshirted, but I don't think it's entirely likely anyone would have been able to turn him into a very good college player by his second year.
That's a great strategy for the estimated 10-17% of drafted players who will EVER play Major League Baseball, but the other 83% or so need a different strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
Players who get drafted have to bust their ass to get to the show as much as possible. But, they also have to financially plan like they aren't ever going to make it. Because the chances are historically greater than 50% that they won't ever make it no matter how high they are drafted. That means taking the big money when it's available unless you have a very solid back-up plan like a degree in hand in a high paying field (like Kendall Graveman), or really rich parents (like Kramer Robertson).
No- you spend your minor league years at MSU with Cann instead of riding around on a bus playing for the CedarQuote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Rapids Hot Dogs. And considering that MLB drafted Graveman in the 36th round and having seen him play as a freshman I think had he not gone to college he may not have made it to MLB at all.
You stay for your senior year and you get your degree and you can transition out of baseball a lot easier than someone that doesn't have that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVDawg
They all think they are going to make it. That's part of the reason why they have made it as far as they have in the game whether they make it to MLB or not.
Seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
I'm saying that a guy like Rooker is smart to stay last year, bc he clearly had MLB potential and tools...so he had a higher likelihood of increasing draft status and therefore either increasing signing bonus, or fast tracking to the league where contracts are huge. Meanwhile, a guy like Vance Tatum better get every bit of signing bonus as he can, bc he knows unless something changes in a major way, he ain't going to be on a MLB roster probably ever, so don't leave money on the table.
Cannizaro will get us less projects, and more sure fire future MLB guys. Therefore, you end up with guys that know they'll be in the show, so improving draft stock and fast tracking their route to the MLB by being a top round pick, means more than a few hundred thousand, bc they have aspirations and a likelihood of making millions soon.
Gridley is a great example. If I'm AC, I tell him you should seriously consider going if you want to maximize your bonus and if you do indeed get offered a good bonus, bc millions are not in his future playing baseball. Whereas, I would tell Mangum that unless someone goes crazy and offers him millions in a bonus, he should stay put bc I think you could potentially make millions in the big leagues one day. If you come back and get stronger, and improve to where you aren't as raw, and increase your draft spot to top few rounds, youll get a bigger bonus next year AND you'll be on more of a fast track to the league where your bonus won't matter much anyway.
It's not that difficult imo. Guys that are longshots to be MLB players should take their biggest bonus chance as Juniors. Guys with real MLB potential should stay as long as it takes to get drafted highest. Bc you're going to get to the big show quicker as a higher draft pick, and bonus means less if you're closer to a MLB contract by increasing draft stock.
If I'm Gridley and someone offers me $200k, I'm gone. If I'm Mangum and someone offers me $500k, I'm coming back to MSU.
Why? Gridley doesn't project as a MLB player, so $200k is likely his biggest ever baseball check. Mangum has MLB tools, and could get stronger and become a MLB player, which would put him making way over $500K. Plus, Mangum still has leverage after next year
You can think you're going to make it but still plan for the best in case you don't. It's not like it's impossible to compartmentalize your actual playing future and your financial future. Any one who is smart does that regardless of their chosen career field. And as the historical data shows, it is especially foolish from a financial standpoint to ignore the reality of the game of professional baseball when making big decisions about whether or not to take a signing bonus or return for a senior year, go to college, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
I certainly hope this is the case, but we don't really know, and LSU has absolutely not been built on those guys. Their program recently has been built primarily on the tweener guys who are more the strong college player than the guy with the clear MLB future.Quote:
Originally Posted by CadaverDawg
Which is fine, I'm more than happy if we go that route if it means we win a bunch of games. I'm just not yet convinced we're going to see this seismic shift in our recruiting and our ability to get high draft picks into school. Our program has been very good recently at producing MLB players, after all, better than most good college programs. It's going to be tough to do an even better job of that.
I don't think you troll at all. I just think you suck at this.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness