Already happening, Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler both did thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Printable View
Already happening, Brandon Jennings and Jeremy Tyler both did thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
I def think you will see that growQuote:
Originally Posted by Tbonewannabe
Same with Bender too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
CDL, they can't. Hell, I doubt most of em even buy season tickets..
From what I have heard and its pretty close to the source, the basketball program has zero backing. Other than the mouthing of the athletic dept. Pitful part of it, Ray has no idea how to go about getting support. And without it , say what you want , in this day and time, without it , you are dead in the water.
All the talk about Scott and Keenum wanting a clean program, what prompted that? The continual investigations of our basketball program under Stansbury. Don't believe I remember reading about any.
Truth of the matter, Ray couldn't do it even if he knew how.
Is be pissed if I'd have forked out my money to help Stan's just to watch him screw it up once the players got here. Hell I am pissed I've been buying tickets since I graduated.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
And all that is fair to Ray how? Thanks for explaining it to the "Ray can't recruit" crowd though...
Last I checked, these people are supposed to be MSU fans -- but they are a bunch of shortsighted hacks with their heads up their asses that CONTINUALLY choose coaches over the school they profess to love -- and are too damn dumb to see when those same coaches are letting the thing burn down... They are even too stupid to see their mistake when they did it with Polk and prolonged Cohen's rebuild by a couple of years -- and are, instead, stubbornly doing the same damn thing with Ray.
A) No shit. Thats what we have been talking about. Ray gets no support- but he is supposed to work wonders.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
B) Hardly anybody gets in trouble in basketball- you have to be an idiot to go on probation in basketball recruiting. Its legal to give money to AAU programs to "sponsor" them- which gets funneled to the recruits. That is what makes Pearl an idiot- although an idiot that is a very good coach. Stands did a great job on all that and so did our network guys like CoastGeezer, the Jackson furniture Moguls, and probably even you Shannondawg.
Hold on a second here. It's not the responsibility of the money to seek out Ray. It is the other way around. How hard is it for Ray to get a list of the top names and approach them, take them out to dinner, invite them to practice, invite them into the locker room, play a round of golf with them, pick up the phone and shoot the shit with them, enjoy a nice bottle of 18 year old scotch and a few cuban cigars with them? Make friends. Maybe not all of them want to be buddy buddy with Ray but I'm sure more do than don't. People want to support Ray and part of Ray's job is to schmooze with the money. He signed up for it. Calipari has to do this. Donovan has to do this. Every fu*king successful coach in college basketball has to do this. Is Ray making the effort here? I doubt it. Instead what is happening is the absolute worst way to go about making friends and that's blasting everyone and calling them Stansbury lovers. Is Ray too proud to ask people for help? Does he expect million dollar checks to just be given to him without him having to do anything for it? Wine and dine people. Make them feel loved and they will love back. PLAY THE FU*KING GAME
You think Ray hasn't tried to do all of that? He's been met with a cold shoulder by a booster structure that(STILL) supports the previous coach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
It's funny that you bring up the alcohol thing -- because I heard a story early on about how he tried to have a beer with one of the key cogs in Stans' former recruiting network in his office, only to be told that he doesn't drink, and basically blackballed by the booster ever since(who apparently had every intention of that from the start -- as it's something really trivial to get your panties in a wad about).
Ray is asking people for help. Read what you've been told in this thread by at least 2 people that were involved in Stans' network. Ray enlisted Richard Williams' help on day 1 to try to get that support structure up and kicking. That's why RW has been around our program so much basically from the day Ray arrived. Yet, they have done little besides spin their wheels -- because the REAL players still support Stansbury over MSU. If you don't believe it, go read Geezer's rant on the pack about the football reseating -- and you'll see, clearly, that "supporting MSU" has been put on the backburner by a bunch of that crowd. And it's been sabotage city, either intentional or incidental, ever since.
This approach frigging pisses me off about our fanbase. Literally the EXACT same thing that happened early with Cohen -- and he STILL doesn't have 100% of the old money on his side to this day... We never learn from past mistakes -- we just repeat them directly thereafter -- that's one reason that we're stuck in the stone age 30 years behind the SEC for the most part.
It makes me almost want to go ahead and move past Ray -- because our history shows that the "next" guy will get the support to be successful on the front end -- while the "Ray/Cohen" coach has to win BIG BEFORE he gets any support. In basketball particularly, that's a tail wagging the dog uphill proposition.
Dude- wtf????? Dawggeezer told the world in this thread that Ray and Richard Williams have been out trying to drum up support- and they are being told to **** off by the Stands supporters. What dont you get about that? Shit- I'm surprised Miskelly's still has a commercial run during basketball telecasts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Well u have no clue what you are talking about. Yea he has sat around eating Bon bons and made no effort to talk to the people we need. None.***Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Do you think it would have helped if our AD would have called multiple people in the network and asked who they would like as the next MSU basketball coach? I know for a fact Byrne made several calls to the top 25% of boosters to ask who they wanted as the next baseball coach when we hired Cohen . I talked to a couple who told me they received a personal phone call from Byrne during the baseball search . I think Stricklin did this hire on his own so I bet a few people felt like their input or financial support wasn't needed. As mentioned in a earlier post, you've got to play the game with the cigar boysQuote:
Originally Posted by engie
It sounds to me like our money list is out of date. MSU has new alumni qualify every year that might want to take the place of those that are in this older regime that don't want to move on yet. Just cause the previous group doesn't want to be involved doesn't mean the new group doesn't. Once the older crowd sees that MSU is doing just fine without them then they might decide they are being trivial and realize why they got involved in the first place a long time ago. This is just another excuse being given for Ray. MSU is the largest school in Mississippi and the alumni base grows every single year. There's new avenues not being explored yet.
All that's fine. I can understand them being pissed. What I don't understand is them punishing RAY for an issue they have with Stricklin. Want to hold money you normally donate to the university for basketball for a little while? Fine. But holding the money you normally spend in recruiting has NOTHING AT ALL to do with Strick and everything to do with Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by HailState39110
This opens up aGAIN what has happened to our basketball program. The sorry bastards care more about a guy that turned our program to a disappointment at the end more than they care about the program, hence the school, itself. Stains is fn gone so fn get over it. Coastdog and all of your ilk need to get on board with the school and the program and start pulling in the same direction. If you sorry ****ers can't do that then stay away forever. Then go to hell.
Eta: disappointment is the nicest way I could put it.
I truly wonder why cdl is even on a Msu board. Other than the obvious to bitch about rs being gone. Shouldn't you be on the gig'em board? It's pretty obvious your allegiance to Msu once was apparently great, and now you don't care about US, just your hurt feelings and the previous staff. The good news is they have a hell of a bonfire it college station every year. Boy are you going to be bitter when rs doesn't get that job when it opens. I feel sorry for bitter people like you. Truly, I do.
Ray is just collateral damage. He is Stricklin's choice. They are showing Stricklin they don't appreciate the way he went about the hire. The best way for them to do this is by not going to the games and not giving money. I personally wish they would take the high road here but Stricklin fu*ked up. No two ways about it. They are showing him they don't appreciate it. If he needs them now then he needed them then and he should of played the game and tickled some balls. Why does Stricklin get off here for y'all? He's the Athletic Director. We heard what Byrne did when Cohen got hired. Why would Stricklin go on his own here? It doesn't make any sense and now he and us are seeing what happens when you do that which most of us new was a very bad idea at the time and still is today.Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
That's right, we should have let him completely bury it in the ground! Oh he already did that. Of course those pissed that we didn't hire Kenny Payne will be pissed again when we don't hire him again if rr gets fired. Pretty safe he will still be available. Amazing how the great Payne is still in Lexington, he should be 100 wins into a great head coaching career by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
SS doesn't have to hire Kenny Payne to keep everyone happy. Payne was like 10th on my wish list maybe even lower. SS just can't go rogue or solo on the mission. Talk to people and tell them KP is on the list and that you appreciate their involvement and will consider it and then give them a follow up after RR gets hired. Idk the exact best way I just know the way it was done wasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Then they are absolute and utter morons. I bet we'll be able to hire us a real nice coach next when we haven't won anything AND there is no support from the boosters. I'm sure they'll love to hear from Ray and others who know the inner workings of college basketball how they shunned our head coach. Bet people will be lining up for miles for this job***Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Yes we are talking about much different networks. The networks that Im talking about actually decide where kids go. Y'all are talking about bagmen and shit that when it comes to college basketball recruiting, those networks don't get you shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Stans network wasn't just MSU supporters - he was dialed into the "agents/advisors/pimps/aau coaches" that actually decide where these kids go. Those connections are ones that Stans has. Same with Pearl. Same with Cal. Same with Donovan, and the LSU coach.
Its not a matter of the MSU faithful stepping up and giving Ray "everything" he needs. Its a matter of Ray having the connection in the group I identified above. If you don't have that connection - you are ****ed and you have to recruit on your belly sort of speak. You have to find players that you can get without having to play the game. Find players on the International area, or guys that the big schools and connected coaches miss on.
Pearl's network has nothing to do with UT. It has nothing to do with AU. The connections he has is with people that trust him and people he has proven to make money for. If y'all think that the only thing holding back MSU from dominating in recruiting is simply a bagman you simply have no idea how basketball recruiting works now a days. None.
The days of Justin Reed and Mario Austin receiving money in mailboxes and getting cherry red escalades and that is how decisions are made is over. There is no gym bag with 30K in it. There is no tractor in the yard. If you don't have a connect - you can't even get in the conversation.
Because its not a college network. Its an AAU/pimp/advisor network. Those guys are loyal to coaches not the college. The college coach funds these networks not college bagmen.Quote:
Originally Posted by smootness
Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
Thanks for clarification. Yes, rick ray is in charge of creating that, no question. However, without the help of others any network that you speak of is worthless. And we are cutting our nose off dispute our face due to egos involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Honestly - its my understanding that the young coaches that are dialed into this network - trained under coaches that are dialed in - Pastner at Memphis - learned under Cal; Johnny Jones learned under Dale Brown - and has a LSU football network that he is using;Quote:
Originally Posted by Homedawg
Same with Anthony Grant, and several coaches in the Big 10. Now, this isn't the only way to win. I don't think Bo Ryan plays that game at all. I know the Michigan coach does, same with OSU.
If the Seal boys walked into Ray's office and said, you have a blank check from our family - go get em, he couldn't land Newman. Ray isn't connected with Nike or any elite AAU groups. These guys aren't looking for a one time score. They all think they are going to have shoe deals and they want to have that from the jump.
Let me give an example - Im not saying there was a lawyer in Jackson that was an advisor to Rhodes or Ellis. Let me repeat, Im not saying that. Im not saying he had the last name of a famous Jackson burger. Im not saying that he made the call to go pro based on a first round promise given by the Celtics or that he was the one that took care of Rhodes while at MSU. This did not happen.
How Ray can get connected with people that aren't this guy, things will get better for him
Well he hasn't called me, maybe I ain't on the list. but my name is on the walls in several places around his office. Hell, he even tried to take my seats for his wife and would have if I hadn't called Scott and told him about it..Quote:
Originally Posted by engie
And there you have it. Can't complain about those not helping when we aren't asking the right people.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
Ahhhh so the truth comes out.....Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
First off, I'm not, nor have I ever been a cigar boy...or anything close to it. I'm not important enough to consult whether or not they put charmin or northern in the bathrooms. What I am is a MSU alumni and fan. I want every team we have to win. From football to freaking frisbee golf. With that being said I was not ecstatic when Ray was hired and was sort of sad to see RS leave although I admit our BB program was abysmal when he did leave. Therefore I understood why that move was made. As stated earlier I don't have any connections so I can't verify if one thing said in this thread is true about the inner workings of the AD as it pertains to recruiting. However, if it is true then it is sad that this is what is going on. The focus should be about winning and not unzipping our pants and sticking a ruler down there to see who's bigger. Second, I'm not too sure the place to discuss this level of dirty laundry is a public message board. Whether or not this goes on everywhere is irrelevant. You don't see seven page threads detailing it and almost naming names.
Who on the outside is going to harm us worse than we harm ourselves currently? A public forum is the BEST place for this to be seen. Those that can fix this shit need to see it.
Oh I fully believe you. The ONLY reason that people wanted Kenny Payne over a guy like Ray is because everyone knew he WAS tied into to the type of network you speak of. It certainly was not because he had proven anything as an actual coach. But Stricklin doesn't want us playing that game and apparently wanted to "clean things up" even from what Stans had going in that area so, IMO, we are screwed in basketball and might as well focus our attention on football and baseball. I agree that you can't get any of the high profile players without playing the game you speak. Yes, its sickening, but its reality. In my view AAU has ruined college basketball and in a lot of ways basketball in general because fundamentals of the game like blocking out, free throw shooting, defending and passing are not even being taught in these circuits from what I can see.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
I would just hate to see the letters LOI thrown on top of things. Maybe what has been talked about here is not even remotely close enough to do that. What I do know is that the quieter people are the better things are. This thread has a lot of squeaky wheels in it and we know what happens to them. Just an overly cautious nothing to see here better safe than sorry kind of person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
Besides, those that can fix this have to be well aware that it is going on. If not, then I have my doubts as to whether or not they can fix it.
Engie, you and your buddy Coach are full of shit. I still buy football tickets and haven't changed one damn thing in my will. If I did, that is my prerogative. The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know. I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn. We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation. Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well. You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had. Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family. All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else. Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here. But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking? Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.
Donnie Tyndall has one goal for his Tennessee team this next year. To make the NCAA tournament. It's their only purpose. We are just hoping we can be in the running for the NIT in year 3.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/vols-co...44--ncaab.html
That pretty well sum it up CDL.Quote:
Originally Posted by coastdoglover
I had one long time employee in the ad tell me, that Ray approached him about recruiting, and it became evident real quick that he had absolutely no clue as to how to recruit or how to go about getting any backing from the alumni base. He also said that a asst coach told him the well was empty and they had no where to go to get any leverage.
Anybody on here curious how Pollard wound up at Houston?
Not really. He isn't that good, we said he wasn't that good, and where he ended up basically proves that he isn't. Pollard < or at best = Zuppardo and Daniels.Quote:
Originally Posted by shannondawg
Yeah -- he took over a strikingly similar situation**Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawg61
I'm sure the NCAAs isn't the goal of our coaches and players either**
Then why were you whining about it on the internet? If nothing else, the fact that your seats got bumped because you chose to invest less than 0.5% of the total amount you've allegedly got willed to MSU(thus making you threaten to strike them from the will) in order to secure your same seats speaks volumes about where you are at with the whole situation. Just taking up your mantle alongside Polk against the evil MSU athletics dept that's trying to move forward into the current century...Quote:
Originally Posted by coastdoglover
You just gave the background on Richard and his group earlier in the post. Is that not Ray's doing? So, you are just going to sit here and talk out of both sides of your mouth on this, I guess?Quote:
The real issue in this deal is we have a coach who doesn't have enough sense to recruit as HancockCountydog has articulated to you dumb asses and if he has reached out to any supporters, it sure as hell isn't any I know.
That's bullshit. We think this coach deserves a fair shake -- nothing more. Thusfar, he hasn't gotten it.Quote:
I give that credit to the AD who you would think after being at Kentucky would understand how the system works. You idiots make excuses for this coach and yet belittled the last one at every turn.
Do I need to start running through all the teams in the Sweet16 every year without 5*s? Just because he isn't doing it exactly how your boy did it doesn't mean that his method is wrong or that it's impossible to have success with.Quote:
We did any awful job with Booker at Moss Point and have no chance at Newman either. Sure they are highly recruited, but we haven't even dented the lists of a top recruit in three years. We can't even get in a conversation.
And most here believe that you would have said that even if we had hired John Wooden. A BUNCH of your crowd SURE AS HECK said it when we hired John Cohen. Where are those people at these days?Quote:
Stricklin blew it. I know it, and most others know it as well.
In fact, where is your boy Kenny Payne coaching at these days?
I'm just repeating what you've told us many times before. If you didn't want people understanding how Stans' played the game, you should have thought long and hard about not making it public knowledge. YOU did that. And you did it more than once.Quote:
You folks always imply our former coach was dirty but last I checked, he was never implicated once in anything illegal. He worked his ass off recruiting and that is why he had the success he had.
And it's appreciated. No one has said nor implied otherwise.Quote:
Shannondawg has given more to MSU than any of you so-called experts so I believe when he posts something, it is accurate. We have a great practice facility now because of people like him and the Mize family.
In what world do you think this statement makes sense? It just lays down your agenda. I guess hurt feelings don't need actual "reasons" to stay hurt. So, these kids that "aren't being recruited by anyone else" in basketball don't "say anything" about our facilities? That statement actually made sense to you?Quote:
All football recruits rave about our facilities, do we ever hear any of Ray's recruits say anything? No, because most of them are not being recruited by anybody else.
How did this sport get "deemphasized" in the first place? And please list for me the ways in which MSU has "deemphasized" this sport? NO -- YOU have deemphasized the sport -- and jumped off the bandwagon because we had to endure a little hardship that YOUR BOY did more than his part in creating for us.Quote:
Nobody wants MSU to win more than these folks and for that matter me. When we decide to quit deemphasizing basketball, most folks will still be here.
MSU -- the only school in the SEC where the tail has to wag the dog. "WELL, MAYBE we will care and invest IF WE WIN FIRST"...Quote:
But until someone steps up and shows most of us there is hope, why should we do anything but wonder what the hell was the AD thinking?
Yep -- it's all theirs. Yet they still haven't beaten us in the Hump but once in 15 years. I guess baseball is all theirs too, huh? AND that's probably Cohen's fault as well in your eyes, I suppose?Quote:
Just because coach and Engie got what they wanted doesn't make it look any better. When we get to.500 in the SEC as coach says we will this year, then maybe folks will have some hope. Until then, the excuses will keep on flowing and MSU will have given basketball over to our friends up North in this state. That is the ultimate sad part.
Who gives a shit where Pollard went? He's not very good
I guess if you live long enough, you get to become exactly what you once despised...
For those that don't know Dawgbreeze = coastdoglover.
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showt...rboys-amp-quot
The irony of all ironies...
http://forums.sixpackspeak.com/showt...tay-in-controlQuote:
Mark Keenum was not their choice and in my opinion, that is good. Let's hope with our new leadership, this nightmare can come to an end and I think that people will see that the cigarboys need MSU more than we need them.
Quote:
And thankfully, there are people who support MSU who want to excel in everything, including athletics, but since that doesn't affect your family, I guess none of us should want those things either. Hell, let's keep LT forever and then we can be mediocre and this board can have a ball bitching and moaning until the end of this century.