Explain what? You said it in your post. They spent $30M on just 13 players according to you. It is insane to think anyone is winning anything with just good coaching these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
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Explain what? You said it in your post. They spent $30M on just 13 players according to you. It is insane to think anyone is winning anything with just good coaching these days.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Who are you talking toQuote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
What fueled this season for Indiana started last season. I'm genuinely untested in what you guys think that class cost. Here's the breakdown on the 2 recruiting site leaders...
2024 Indiana 247:
17 HS (1 4-star)
31 transfers (2 4-star)
46th overall
30th transfer
66th overall
On3:
60th
Avg nil value - 61k
ETA... for reference, our 2024 class had an avg nil value of 93k.
What's the lowest 3-year avg composite recruiting ranking to win a natty? We probably looking at history this season
No idea but if you look at our in state recruiting since 2020 it?s absolutely putrid. We?ve missed on a ton of kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
And until we show a pulse, we will continue to. We will absolutely have to pony up money, but the way things are now, we have to offer way more than our competitionQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg
My guess is 2010 Auburn. Which if accurate shows coaching isn't as important as the players. You need a Heisman level guy at QB (Cam, Mendoza, Chambliss, Moore) and really good pieces around him. Cam is a bit of an exception though, I know Fairley was on that team, but I can't really remember much else, Cam was just literally superman in college.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
In state recruiting should be a fill a spot plan. Not our primary focus. Kiffin said that himself and he?s right especially when it comes to the offense. The state does produce defense players at a higher level but only about 3 to 5 high quality players for offense.
Thinking we need to dominate high school recruiting in this state is very old head thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I'm with you 7. I'm confused also on some of the NIL references. This Indiana team is full of G-5 players and a once mediocre QB. The system the coaches built around him along with the technicality of this team in every aspect is phenomenal. One of the best coaching jobs I have ever seen, if not the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
That?s fine and I agree. This thread got all out of wack because the goal posts moved. ?Lack of resources?, when proved otherwise was false, became NIL. Indiana?s football spend, including off-field staff that can go out and find a Chambliss (ranked 60th in the portal last year) has increased from $21M to $60M in four years. Cuban stated he finally donated ?a large number? to the athletic department due to Cignetti and that number will only grow. So now they?ll have a strong base and a potential Phil Knight ready to take it to another level. Can they be a blueprint for us? Sure. But we need to start spending more money and building that foundation up. Indications are that we are doing more of that so that?s good. Wouldn?t hurt to find another Curt Cignetti either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maroon Glasses
I saw that Indiana?s average age on offense is 22.5 years old. They don?t have a single offensive starter under 21. So they are playing with full grown men who have multiple years in college. A lot of guys who don?t have NFL talent but are 5 year veterans.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
No sir. I shouldn't have left off the asterisks. They 1000% didn't pay top dollar for James Madison recruits that followed their coach to Indiana. Indiana is winning with great coaching and team players. The NIL didn't win them games. Mendoza was a losing Qb until he came to Indiana. Coaching made him what he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by DEDawg
This also males a difference. BYU back in the day with Mormon missions was similar. Those dudes were full grown men with families.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
That is very interesting. Maybe we should be targeting guys like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by HoopsDawg
The best thing that could happen for Mississippi State Football would be for Ole Piss to win it all. Would piss off the money people of MSU.
it's truly a dam shame if they aren't pissed already
This all day long.Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldawg28
Got to have a coach who holds his player accountable for mistakes and have a very well disciplined O/D Lines who do what they are coached to do. Plus they tackle very well.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
C34 isn't wrong. You are stuck on the word NIL even though it was not just NIL C34 was talking about. Indiana is spending money. Way more than us. Never did C34 say just in NIL. Cig is making over 11.6 million per year there. He has another 11 PLUS to spend on staffing. ETC.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
In short, they did not get the cart before the horse. They got the off field staff that produces. The on field staff that produces. And now the NIL to keep it going.
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by Rawdawg
Yep, this is why this thread is just so off base in the most Missippy Tate kinda way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Even with their increased spending this season, they were 7th in the big 10 behind Rutgers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
The whole point of the thread was if you catch lightning in a bottle one season, it can totally elevate your program (spending for players, coaches, etc). Fine though, if you guys believe we have to spend top half of the sec to have any success, congrats then... we will never do anything.
I'm of the opinion that some coaches can totally raise the level of their players. Leach was one of these guys. He could win with guys that other teams couldn't compete with at all. This is why his lack of recruiting totally murdered our program bc no one else here could do that. I believe cignetti is another one of these guys, but he has some actual good players.
Wut? You guys argument is basically we can't win, ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coursesuper
I asked ChatGPT about big 10 football only spending, and here's the answer...
Big Ten Football Spending (Estimated, Football-Only)
Tier 1: National Super-Spenders ($110?130M+)
These programs are consistently top-10 nationally in football expenses.
Ohio State
Michigan
Penn State
Tier 2: Power Programs ($90?110M)
High coaching salaries, major recruiting, strong travel & facilities spend.
Oregon
USC
Wisconsin
Iowa
Tier 3: Upper-Middle Spend ($75?90M)
Competitive budgets but below national elite.
Michigan State
Nebraska
Washington
UCLA
Tier 4: Mid-Level Spend ($65?75M)
Minnesota
Maryland
Illinois
Tier 5: Lower Big Ten Spend ($55?65M)
Purdue
Rutgers
Indiana
Northwestern
That's a little warped. Leach had no problems in recruiting and in coaching. He did not leave our team in shambles. It was tooled for his offense and the next guy tried to put a square peg into a round hole. Rehashing the past isn't going to make State better.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Cig is a great coach. Nobody can deny that. But Cig is susceptible as any other coach. Talent is needed. There is no way that Bama, nor OSU should have lost to them based on talent. These are teams getting by on talent alone. Bama lived off their talent this year. That coach will not be there after next year!
In short there are multiple paths a team can approach to be a competitive team.
- Great talent and decent coaching.
- Ok talent with great coaching.
- Great talent and great coaching.
And all in between.........
The issue comes to these. Where is there another Cigibaby? Are we going to throw money at "maybe he is"? Because we all know there are few Cigibabies in this world. Or, you can have decent coaching and pay top NIL money for a complete team. Do we have that top dollar to out bid the world? OR, maybe we get a good coach and spend more on NIL finding a middle ground in all of this.
That's not what they argued. They are simply pointing out that money is going to make or break a team at this point. And that's not a NIL comment alone. You want to offer Cig 15 to 20 Million per year? Then you got to have 15 to 20 million to pay if he accepts. It's not just NIL.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
And here it is for you. Should we have a playoff moment next year, Either we step up to pay Lebby 12 million, our QB 4 Million plus others along with staff increases or they will all be gone. See... That's not just NIL we are talking about.
So their tier 5 is spending more than us. You are making our point.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
In my opinion you have the cart before the horse. There is no lightning in a bottle. It’s build the foundation properly and work your ass off after that. Unlike your get rich quick scheme. Indiana invested, built the infrastructure and got a good guy. This investment preparation and hard work is paying off for them in a big way. They used the portal for the right guys for their program, which is the most valuable thing to have.
This is the OP...Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg
Indiana is why we shouldn't give up hope
They're in the best conference, and they've rose to the top while having no history and less resources than their rich conf neighbors.
...
what do you disagree with that on?
I literally just posted where they're in the bottom tier of big 10 spending .Quote:
Originally Posted by Coursesuper
Chat GTP ain’t exactly the kinda concrete data points I’m looking for. I agree with you that Indiana is a nice story and it would be nice to replicate what they are doing. That said our situations are not exactly similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Indiana is literally a "get rich quick" success story. They had 3 straight losing, non-bowl seasons (with a combined 3 conference wins across them) from 2021 to 2023. Then they fired their coach and got a really good one, and spent a lot of money on players and transfers and immediately made the playoffs in 2024 and by 2025 were blowing out Alabama as the #1 team.
I'm not saying we can easily replicate what they did, but the idea that they spent years laying down a foundation is just not true. They just spent money AND got a really good coach.
The "Missippy Tate" people are the ones who say we can't possibly expect better than 7-17 (1-15) so we should just be happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I don't think anybody has an issue with any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
I've literally had to depend that the whole threadQuote:
Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg