Brandon Walker on UGA

I think some things were promised, Emery move too quick.

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Originally Posted by TUSK

I dunno if GA is "cheating" any worse than they have in the past, but I do know this:

UGA recruiting at a "historically high level" (while recruiting GA and FL) is not in the same frickin' galaxy as Ole Miss going from a Top 50 recruiter to Top 10 overnight...

Just friggin' stop it, BW...

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Mississippi went from 23 to 11. Uga went from 9 to 1.

And don't get me wrong guys, smart is a great recruiter even without the cheating (so is Freeze for that matter). But Uga is cheating it's ass off.

Georgia recruiting class ranks...
2014 = 8th
2015 = 6th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 3rd
2018 = 1st
2019 = 2nd so far

I'm pretty confident that all competitive schools are cheating to some level. In the 75 on the interstate vs 105 on the interstate analogy, Smart has decided to throw a few formula 1 cars on the highway and see how fast they can actually go. He may crash and burn or he may set a new gumball rally record.

In the end, I think if you spit in the face of too many blue bloods, it will get you in trouble. Even if you are a blue blood yourself.

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Originally Posted by smootness

I don't care who you know in Athens. I live down the road from Fields' HS and know several people who know him extremely well. The fact that you think UGA must have paid a kid from Cobb County because he chose them is laughable. Don't make claims you can't back up.

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Look I'm not saying you're wrong of that BW didn't make up what he said, I have no idea what either of you know. However, you're telling him not to make claims about Fields if he can't "back it up" with proof, all while you make claims about Fields without "backing it up". Nobody said top recruits are willing to compete, but you also can't deny that they want to play and other schools would get them on the field quicker.

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Originally Posted by smootness

It was the least shocking thing ever when he committed to UGA. Heck, he was committed to Penn St. before that. I suppose they were cheating like mad since it was far more of a shock for him to potentially go there.

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At PSU he'd just have to wait 1 year for McSorely to leave then he'd have a 90% shot at being the starter for a very very good program. At UGA he'll wait 2 years behind Fromm and have far less of a chance keep his starting job if he gets an injury (Remember, Eason got passed up because of that, and Fields knows UGA will keep pulling in very good QBs in the classes behind him).

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Originally Posted by smootness

If kids cared only about the depth chart, they'd never go to big-time schools.

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We've never said it's all the cared about, but if they want to play FB and get exposure of course they should want to go to a program that maximizes those odds. They also care about money and cars, which is why cheating works.

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Originally Posted by smootness

It's crazy they're pulling this many and very rare but it isn't shocking or confusing.

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It isn't "very rare", it's literally NEVER been done before. They have 12 5* between last year and this one, which is more than any team has ever done in a 2 year period. They'll probably add more by signing day too.

Everyone cheats, go look at the number of Chargers at the Bama practice field parking lot or on Emery's twitter for proof. All I and others are saying is that UGA is probably handing out more than others. I don't know why it's so offensive to say one of the 50+ programs that cheat are cheating more than others... none of us have proof either way, it's just we have 2 options: 1) Kirby is the greatest recruiter ever, and dominates with normal levels of cheating, or 2) Kirby is a very good recruiter, AND UGA boosters ramped up the handouts to give him an edge. I don't know why some feel the need to say 2) is a crazy conspiracy, dozens of programs have done this over the years and there's nothing more moral about UGA boosters than OM or SMU or A&Ms

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Originally Posted by Brandon Walker

It's not whining, because I started saying this publicly a few weeks ago, long before Emery committed to UGA.

For whatever reason, we have fans that want to excuse UGA and put them on a pedestal to excuse what's happening. Is UGA a better recruiting school historically than Ole Miss and therefore expected to sign better classes? Yes. But that doesn't change the fact that UGA is absolutely changing the game right now in how they are acquiring talent. They are emptying the wallet. It's not just Emery. Look at 5-star QB Justin Fields last year, who could have gone anywhere in the country and started this year. Instead, he chose to go possibly ride the bench for 3 years at UGA. Emery just committed to a place that has a 5-star soph and the No. 1 and No. 3 back from the 2018 class.

I'm not guessing here. When Freeze started recruiting well at Ole Miss, their network upped the game and went all in, deciding to sign any 5-star they could with no regard for how it looked. I'm in Georgia. I've talked to some recruiting insiders in Athens. I asked why Fields would sign with UGA, and one flat out said "If the bag is big enough, kids don't care about the depth chart.

So yes UGA is a good school. Yes they are in a talent-rich state. But Kirby Smart isn't getting these guys because he works hard. Their boosters are changing the standard of how the recruiting game is played.

If you think it's whining, that's fine. But the standard of cheating is being changed in Athens, Georgia right now. And it has nothing to do with John Emery or Mississippi State or me getting upset.

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And if you think Richt didn't use their network or that they haven't emptied the wallet in the past you don't know your history. When UGA sees potential to load up, they do it. Especially when they are going after either high profile in state kids or difference maker running back. Go back and look at how many of those RB's I listed were on teams with 2 or more other players on that list. That has been their MO for ages.

I'll give you another example. Dooley retires after '88 with a 9-3 record. Long time assistant Ray Goff takes over. Goff was regarded as a recruiting king under Dooley. Goff goes 6-6 in his first season in '89 - then proceeds to land what was believed to be the best signing class in the history of the school at that time - featuring Andre Hastings, Garrison Hearst, Frank Harvey, Charles Pledger (Nick Fitzgerald's uncle) & Damon Evans (future UGA AD). Goff proceeds to go 4-7 in '90, and signs what was touted at the time as an even better class the following year with Eric Zeier, Mike Fredenberg, & Kannon Parkman. Goff goes 9-3 in '91 and then lands a class with Terrell Davis (from California - with Hearst already on the roster), Randall Godfrey, and Brice Hunter. Now, Goff was a shitty coach. But they were still able to land classes with what were billed by the AJC at the time as absolute monster classes. The only difference now is that you have recruiting class rankings. Since 2000 UGA has finish outside the Top Ten 3 times. Most years they are 6th or higher. Georgia's network didn't have to up their game because it never dropped off. Kirby and his staff are just that much better in recruiting then Richt. Just like JoMo and his staff appear to be that much better than Mullen and the CC Boys.

And lets not act like UGA was coming out of some period of laughable performance or recruiting like Ole Miss did. Mark Richt won 74% of his games, won the East 5 times, the SEC twice (just missing a 3rd time) and left UGA with a 10-3 season and 15 straight bowl games.

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Originally Posted by msstate7

Georgia recruiting class ranks...
2014 = 8th
2015 = 6th
2016 = 6th
2017 = 3rd
2018 = 1st
2019 = 2nd so far

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Why'd you stop at 2014? Ha.

Uga was the 9 composite recruiter pre smart and 1 with Smart. And 2019 is only number 2 right now bc of the number of recruits. Uga per player ranking is blowing everybody out of the water by nearly two whole points.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Let's cut to the chase. I believe uga boosters are offering more $ and benefits to recruits than Mississippi boosters did under Freeze. Do you disagree?

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Absolutely I disagree.

People are discounting the natural excitement that comes with a new hire and immediate success (and yes, he went 7-5 his first year but so did Saban at Bama; then there was quick and incredible transformation the next year...like Saban). They won't continue to recruit quite at this level once some of that excitement and newness wears off.

Another aspect - Richt did not often oversign and would routinely sign a less-than-full class. Usually when they dipped closer to the bottom of the top 10, it was because they signed 19, 20, 21 kids.

Georgia is the hot name in college football right now because of the excitement Smart's brought and the success they had on the field last year. This happens all the time. Somebody has to jump up to the top. It was USC, then it was Florida, then it was Bama. Then Clemson. Right now it's UGA.

They all cheat on some level. Even us I'm sure. To what degree, we'll never know. It's also plausible that kids want to play at the blue blood schools without getting paid.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Why'd you stop at 2014? Ha.

Uga was the 9 composite recruiter pre smart and 1 with Smart. And 2019 is only number 2 right now bc of the number of recruits. Uga per player ranking is blowing everybody out of the water by nearly two whole points.

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2013 - 12th
2012 - 9th
2011 - 7th
2010 - 11th
2009 - 4th
2008 - 7th
2007 - 8th
2006 - 3rd

I mean, it doesn't matter how far you go back.

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Originally Posted by smootness

Absolutely I disagree.

People are discounting the natural excitement that comes with a new hire and immediate success (and yes, he went 7-5 his first year but so did Saban at Bama; then there was quick and incredible transformation the next year...like Saban). They won't continue to recruit quite at this level once some of that excitement and newness wears off.

Another aspect - Richt did not often oversign and would routinely sign a less-than-full class. Usually when they dipped closer to the bottom of the top 10, it was because they signed 19, 20, 21 kids.

Georgia is the hot name in college football right now because of the excitement Smart's brought and the success they had on the field last year. This happens all the time. Somebody has to jump up to the top. It was USC, then it was Florida, then it was Bama. Then Clemson. Right now it's UGA.

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Thanks for answering. Good discussion.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

Jumping the top eight blue bloods and going from 9 in the country to 1 in the country (smart) is harder than jumping MSU and USCe to go from 23 to 11 (freeze).

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In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

Georgia's new locker room
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DjOYgrBU...jpg&name=large

Georgia's new indoor practice facility
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-01.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-02.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-05.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-09.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-10.jpg
https://georgiadogs.com/images/2017/...f17-new-11.jpg

Georgia's west end zone project
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/upl...180x660@2x.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/upl...2-1180x660.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/upl...1-1180x660.jpg
http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/upl...6-1180x660.jpg

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Originally Posted by the_real_MSU_is_us

Look I'm not saying you're wrong of that BW didn't make up what he said, I have no idea what either of you know. However, you're telling him not to make claims about Fields if he can't "back it up" with proof, all while you make claims about Fields without "backing it up". Nobody said top recruits are willing to compete, but you also can't deny that they want to play and other schools would get them on the field quicker.



At PSU he'd just have to wait 1 year for McSorely to leave then he'd have a 90% shot at being the starter for a very very good program. At UGA he'll wait 2 years behind Fromm and have far less of a chance keep his starting job if he gets an injury (Remember, Eason got passed up because of that, and Fields knows UGA will keep pulling in very good QBs in the classes behind him).




We've never said it's all the cared about, but if they want to play FB and get exposure of course they should want to go to a program that maximizes those odds. They also care about money and cars, which is why cheating works.



It isn't "very rare", it's literally NEVER been done before. They have 12 5* between last year and this one, which is more than any team has ever done in a 2 year period. They'll probably add more by signing day too.

Everyone cheats, go look at the number of Chargers at the Bama practice field parking lot or on Emery's twitter for proof. All I and others are saying is that UGA is probably handing out more than others. I don't know why it's so offensive to say one of the 50+ programs that cheat are cheating more than others... none of us have proof either way, it's just we have 2 options: 1) Kirby is the greatest recruiter ever, and dominates with normal levels of cheating, or 2) Kirby is a very good recruiter, AND UGA boosters ramped up the handouts to give him an edge. I don't know why some feel the need to say 2) is a crazy conspiracy, dozens of programs have done this over the years and there's nothing more moral about UGA boosters than OM or SMU or A&Ms

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I shouldn't have said not to 'make claims.' I should have said, don't make accusations. I'm not accusing any kid of taking money. He is.

If everyone cheats, then everyone is on an even playing field. It's absurd to think that the only answer for UGA jumping to the top is cheating, and it's lazy. There are good explanations for why they would be recruiting better now than they ever have. USC now doesn't recruit at anything close to the level they did 15-20 years ago. Florida hasn't recruited at near the level they used to for the last few years. Clemson now recruits far better than they ever have. Do you honestly believe the only answer for these changes is that schools just arbitrarily decide when to scale up and scale back their cheating?

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Originally Posted by smootness

In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

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1. Uga 2016 class was a lot of smart, not all richt.

2. Regardless, the numbers don't support your point. You can cherry pick 5 stars all day, but the entire picture shows that smart has taken Uga from 9 to 1 jumping every blue blood in football while Freeze took OM from 23 to 11. The former is much harder to do and more eyebrow raising.

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Originally Posted by smootness

In 2016 (Richt's last year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 10 4-stars. 3 of those 13 were HS kids from OOS.
In 2017 (Smart's first year), UGA signed 3 5-stars and 16 4-stars. 4 of those 19 were HS kids from OOS (one from AL).
In 2018, UGA signed 7 5-stars and 14 4-stars. 8 of those 21 were HS kids from OOS.

In 2011 (Nutt's last full class), OM signed 5 4-stars. 0 of them were HS kids from OOS.
In 2012 (Nutt's last class with a little Freeze), OM signed 3 4-stars. 1 of the 3 was a HS kid from OOS.
In 2013, OM signed 4 5-stars and 8 4-stars. 8 of the 12, including the 3 who were #1 at their position in the country, were HS kids from OOS.

I'll let you determine which of those is more eyebrow-raising.

Smart has upped the recruiting quite a bit in-state, and he's upped it a bit out-of-state. That's what happens when you have a great recruiter in a great situation. Freeze upped OM's recruiting 10-fold and did it primarily out-of-state with absolutely top of the class talent.

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Thanks for doin' that for me, Smoot... We are comparing "apples" to "mailboxes"...

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Originally Posted by smootness

I shouldn't have said not to 'make claims.' I should have said, don't make accusations. I'm not accusing any kid of taking money. He is.

If everyone cheats, then everyone is on an even playing field. It's absurd to think that the only answer for UGA jumping to the top is cheating, and it's lazy. There are good explanations for why they would be recruiting better now than they ever have. USC now doesn't recruit at anything close to the level they did 15-20 years ago. Florida hasn't recruited at near the level they used to for the last few years. Clemson now recruits far better than they ever have. Do you honestly believe the only answer for these changes is that schools just arbitrarily decide when to scale up and scale back their cheating?

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Smart is a great recruiter, no doubt. Just like Freeze was/is.

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Originally Posted by confucius say

1. Uga 2016 class was a lot of smart, not all richt.

2. Regardless, the numbers don't support your point. You can cherry pick 5 stars all day, but the entire picture shows that smart has taken Uga from 9 to 1 jumping every blue blood in football while Freeze took OM from 23 to 11. The former is much harder to do and more eyebrow raising.

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1. That's a fair point, though a large chunk of those top guys had committed to Richt. But take 2015 then: 2 5-stars, 11 4-stars, 4 of the 13 HS kids from OOS. So more of the same. UGA's recruiting has always been largely in-state with a sprinkling of OOS. The amount of OOS has increased slightly under Smart but he's also just improved in-state. That's not usually the sign of someone just throwing money everywhere all the sudden. Again, Brandon's example was a kid from Cobb County, GA. It is the least shocking thing ever that Fields is at UGA.

2. In 2018, Kirby Smart - apparently throwing out more money than even Hugh Freeze - pulled 3 OOS 5-stars, only one of whom was #1 at his position; the 3 others who were #1? GA kids. In 2017, Smart pulled 2 non-GA 5-stars, neither of which was #1 at their position. For 2019, Smart has 2 OOS 5-stars committed, neither of whom is #1 at his position.

In 2013, Hugh Freeze pulled 3 5-stars from OOS, all of whom were #1 at their position.

Again, I'll let reasonable minds be the judge of which is crazier and harder to do.

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Originally Posted by Cooterpoot

Well, since everybody is cheating and pretty much getting away with it, when do we fire Bracky? I mean, if we can look around and say all these schools are cheating and we can see the NCAA didn't really touch OM, then I blame our administration for not playing the same game as the rest of the league.
Stop blaming the other schools for winning if you've got proof the others are cheating and getting away with it.

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Because the man who hires the athletics director is.....shall we say adverse.....to scandal. Brackey does EXACTLY what he expects. He can live with the same ole same ole if that's what it takes to keep our schools name as clean as possible. He will not have the circus that OM just went through or the one we almost went through around the time of Redmond. He believes the University, for better or worse, is bigger than the athletics department. We can disagree with that line of thinking or not. But that is who he is and what we will deal with. Coaches, players and AD's that put MSU in salacious headlines will be shown the door.

http://thegeorgiabulldogclub.com/upl...6-1180x660.jpg

Is that a ninja in a GA hat?