The Covid-19 Info thread (keep politics out please)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hacker

You may have missed it last night, but he's now saying that he's going to lift social distancing in "weeks, not months"

Yet Sunday he activated the National Guard to enforce lockdowns in a few states

I'm getting mixed signals on the strategy to move forward.

---

Yeah - they started floating the idea of basically sacrificing anyone over 70 on Fox last night for the good of the economy, but I just figured that was a crazy person.

I think its a moot point. You could life all the restrictions you want - who in their right mind is getting on a plane right now or going to dinner in a crowded restaurant.

I also don't think he will have any support from the party to go that route except for the far right fringes. Cruz, Graham and today Liz Cheney have come out and publicly stated the idea is just nuts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

No - I think there are a lot of selfish ignorant people regardless of political affiliation. I'm just saying that the same people that thought this was a media driven hoax are the same people that are now taking it seriously, and I give the President a lot of credit for that. I don't think those same people would have listened to an Obama or a Hillary considering the same circumstances.

---

Fair enough...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

You are missing my point. I'm past blaming anyone for where we are - I want to move forward. Based on the last two weeks - conservatives started out thinking this was being blown out of proportion. That is not arguable. I'm sure we all had siblings or parents that are conservative who were mocking this virus or not taking it serious. Their attitudes changed as soon as the President was telling people to stop gathering in groups of 10 or more and was taking swift action.

I don't think some conservatives would have listened if it was Obama or Hillary telling them to not go to church.

This is not a unique situation. Think about when we go to war, if a Republican is President - democrats don't trust his motives. If a democrat is ordering drone strikes with no real oversight, democrats turn a blind eye. They wouldn't if it was a republican.

---

Ahh I get your point. At least the impeachment crap isn't going on in the middle of all of this too. Regardless of where you fall on that.

The fact that said people who were playing it down changed their attitude simply because of what the president is saying one day is the bigger problem. The fact that they don't think for themselves and just choose a party to follow instead of paying attention to what the hell is going on is the problem.

I don't understand how anyone can have a blind allegiance to one side or the other, especially when it comes to something that is 100% out of every person's control like the current situation.

Anyone that thinks throwing the old and weak to the wolves and letting this spread will somehow not tank the economy for longer AND cost more lives needs to just realize the economy is ****ed. Can't fix the economy until we virtually eliminate the virus threat. While it's spreading, all those service jobs lost in the last 2 weeks ain't coming back cause folks aren't gonna be traveling, eating dinner out, going to movies, etc. anyway even if we can legally congregate in groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Extendedcab

Thanks, the term "lame stream media" came directly from the information source I provided, it was not my personal comment.

---

Ah ok. I see now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

Anyone that thinks throwing the old and weak to the wolves and letting this spread will somehow not tank the economy for longer AND cost more lives needs to just realize the economy is ****ed. Can't fix the economy until we virtually eliminate the virus threat. While it's spreading, all those service jobs lost in the last 2 weeks ain't coming back cause folks aren't gonna be traveling, eating dinner out, going to movies, etc. anyway even if we can legally congregate in groups.

---

Totally agree - i'm just hoping that this is a test balloon. The President can't honestly expect people to start acting like everything is normal when medical professionals are telling us how easy it spreads, how dangerous it can be, and most importantly there are no hospital bed/ventilators to take care of people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog

Totally agree - i'm just hoping that this is a test balloon. The President can't honestly expect people to start acting like everything is normal when medical professionals are telling us how easy it spreads, how dangerous it can be, and most importantly there are no hospital bed/ventilators to take care of people.

---

Did trump propose throwing "old and weak to wolves"?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Did trump propose throwing "old and weak to wolves"?

---

he did it on national tv

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dalmuti

he did it on national tv

---

Wow, when?

This may be the most colossal failure of leadership in the history of our nation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Did trump propose throwing "old and weak to wolves"?

---

Yeah where did that come from?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Political Hack

This may be the most colossal failure of leadership in the history of our nation.

---

It's just so inconsistent. I don't even know what we are doing now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Political Hack

This may be the most colossal failure of leadership in the history of our nation.

---

starting to look that way

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dawg2003

It's just so inconsistent.

---

This^^^ right here, is a major problem.

What shoulda woulda coulda been done to prepare is one thing, but now that we're here, this is making things considerably worse.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

Wow, when?

---

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/polit...rus/index.html

This is a man getting antsy about the economy and it's blinding his decision making. He doesn't literally say "throw the old and weak to the wolves", but when talking about having the economy "raring to go" by Easter is effectively saying that. Nevermind that overloading and collapsing the healthcare industry to save the economy seems like a weird way to try to save the economy.

What happens when he re-opens federal buildings to all the fed workers currently on temporary full time wfh agreements and cancels/ends all those wfh agreements signed last week, but many folks are refusing to take public transit and to go in buildings where hundreds of people per day are opening doors, touching security swipes, touching elevator buttons, touching faucets, etc.? Even if they allow the "at risk" groups to stay home but terminate the "healthy" employees wfh agreements. Are they considered on strike or awol and get fired for not reporting in? Cause even if you are a trump supporter, you know his style would be to "lead by example" and the only employees he can control are the federal employees, so if he wants to "prove" we can open business back up, he'll start with the fed offices.

Full disclosure, I work for the feds and have been full time teleworking since 2012, but I correspond daily with folks in our offices that would face this exact dilemma.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Political Hack

This may be the most colossal failure of leadership in the history of our nation.

---

The colossal failure of leadership was the President that gave everything to China in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/polit...rus/index.html

This is a man getting antsy about the economy and it's blinding his decision making. He doesn't literally say "throw the old and weak to the wolves", but when talking about having the economy "raring to go" by Easter is effectively saying that. Nevermind that overloading and collapsing the healthcare industry to save the economy seems like a weird way to try to save the economy.

What happens when he re-opens federal buildings to all the fed workers currently on temporary full time wfh agreements and cancels/ends all those wfh agreements signed last week, but many folks are refusing to take public transit and to go in buildings where hundreds of people per day are opening doors, touching security swipes, touching elevator buttons, touching faucets, etc.? Even if they allow the "at risk" groups to stay home but terminate the "healthy" employees wfh agreements. Are they considered on strike or awol and get fired for not reporting in? Cause even if you are a trump supporter, you know his style would be to "lead by example" and the only employees he can control are the federal employees, so if he wants to "prove" we can open business back up, he'll start with the fed offices.

Full disclosure, I work for the feds and have been full time teleworking since 2012, but I correspond daily with folks in our offices that would face this exact dilemma.

---

From your link:

"I give it two weeks," Trump said earlier in the town hall, suggesting he was ready to phase out his 15-day self-isolating guidelines when they expire. "I guess by Monday or Tuesday, it's about two weeks. We will assess at that time and give it more time if we need a little more time. We have to open this country up."

...
Trump did concede he wasn't sure if that timing -- just 19 days from now -- would work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/polit...rus/index.html

This is a man getting antsy about the economy and it's blinding his decision making. He doesn't literally say "throw the old and weak to the wolves", but when talking about having the economy "raring to go" by Easter is effectively saying that. Nevermind that overloading and collapsing the healthcare industry to save the economy seems like a weird way to try to save the economy.

What happens when he re-opens federal buildings to all the fed workers currently on temporary full time wfh agreements and cancels/ends all those wfh agreements signed last week, but many folks are refusing to take public transit and to go in buildings where hundreds of people per day are opening doors, touching security swipes, touching elevator buttons, touching faucets, etc.? Even if they allow the "at risk" groups to stay home but terminate the "healthy" employees wfh agreements. Are they considered on strike or awol and get fired for not reporting in? Cause even if you are a trump supporter, you know his style would be to "lead by example" and the only employees he can control are the federal employees, so if he wants to "prove" we can open business back up, he'll start with the fed offices.

Full disclosure, I work for the feds and have been full time teleworking since 2012, but I correspond daily with folks in our offices that would face this exact dilemma.

---

Huh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Political Hack

This may be the most colossal failure of leadership in the history of NEW YORK.

---

FIFY

New York has roughly half of the cases in the US. Louisiana is well on their way to getting out of control too. California, Washington, Michigan, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey all 8 of these are in the top 10. I see a common thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

From your link:

"I give it two weeks," Trump said earlier in the town hall, suggesting he was ready to phase out his 15-day self-isolating guidelines when they expire. "I guess by Monday or Tuesday, it's about two weeks. We will assess at that time and give it more time if we need a little more time. We have to open this country up."

...
Trump did concede he wasn't sure if that timing -- just 19 days from now -- would work.

---

Uh huh, because he's been quite consistent about sticking with a more cautious approach and not wildly flailing at the next shiny thing that catches his eye even when it contradicts the message he was reading off the teleprompter earlier in the same speech. This is about his personality, not his politics. I disagree with his politics, but I his personality makes him a bad leader and completely inept to handle times like this. He knows his re-election campaign entirely hinges on the stock market and he'll do whatever he can to try to prop it up short term. Honestly, outside of a miracle cure/vaccine or mysterious disappearance of covid-19 by fall, I don't think he can win cause either the economy goes in the shitter, we are stuck in our homes for months now, and many people still die, or the economy goes in the shitter as the spread increases from opening up business again, then healthcare system fully collapses dragging the rest of a lethally injured economy with it, and many people die unnecessarily who could've otherwise survived with proper care but due to overloading and collapsing the system, they don't get proper care, and we still likely end up locked at home months from now anyway when this is still spreading out of control. These are both shitty options, but one is definitely shittier than the other, but also requires admitting short term defeat for better long term outlook. Trump's personality isn't built to take the long term outlook, you can hear it in his tone and read it in his words, he is ready to get back to "normal" ASAP, even if that is temporary due to the nature of what will happen when we prematurely go back to "normal".

The govt needs to shutdown everything for a month outside of the food and healthcare chains. We get free utilities for the month, mortgage and rents and loans are paused, not interest accumulates, give people at little reason to justify leaving their homes as possible, and that means taking any decisions about personal financial security out of their hands and ensuring they will still be able to operate their livelihood when this mess is over. After a month, asymtpmatic carriers should have processed it from their system, the folks that get sick and recover should be good to go, and those that never got it should have very little chance of catching it during that month. Hopefully this also comes with a massive testing movement to test as many people as possible, either door to door or at an assigned place and time. Then maybe we can start to loosen up regionally/locally once we have a better idea on the spread. The problem is that without shutting down for a month to limit community spread, there's always gonna be sporadic outbreaks that suddenly shut down cities/states again and again, ****ing with the economy (on top of the healthcare collapse from cases) because cases will be transmitted through mass gatherings, travelers, etc. until we take the time to pause and see exactly where we are at on this thing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PMDawg

FIFY

New York has roughly half of the cases in the US. Louisiana is well on their way to getting out of control too. California, Washington, Michigan, Illinois, Massachusetts, New Jersey all 8 of these are in the top 10. I see a common thread.

---

States with major cities and more international tourists?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

States with major cities and more international tourists?

---

LOL. Yeah, sure, that's it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by StateDawg44

Huh?

---

If the economy is "raring to go" for Easter and trump pressures states to relax the mitigation steps they've taken, then it's going to spread fast again. The old and the weak are at most vulnerable, so allowing covid-19 to spread uncontrollably again would be putting those people at risk. Even if they are allowed to "shelter in place" to avoid reporting to work and make other special considerations for their needs (healthcare, food delivery, etc), the few people they would come into contact with would now have a higher risk of being carriers. So yes, I shortened to to "throw the old and the weak to the wolves" (quotation for quoting myself, not quoting trump, I never intended that to be a quote just my commentary on what he's effectively wanting to do).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

If the economy is "raring to go" for Easter and trump pressures states to relax the mitigation steps they've taken, then it's going to spread fast again. The old and the weak are at most vulnerable, so allowing covid-19 to spread uncontrollably again would be putting those people at risk. Even if they are allowed to "shelter in place" to avoid reporting to work and make other special considerations for their needs (healthcare, food delivery, etc), the few people they would come into contact with would now have a higher risk of being carriers. So yes, I shortened to to "throw the old and the weak to the wolves" (quotation for quoting myself, not quoting trump, I never intended that to be a quote just my commentary on what he's effectively wanting to do).

---

So, he never proposed to "throw the old and weak to the wolves".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PMDawg

LOL. Yeah, sure, that's it.

---

It's weird you expect mayors to have more and better access to international heath crises than the federal government. Nevermind the state of Washington has been begging the feds for emergency funding and help from the CDC since the end of January. Sorry, but a disease isn't political.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

So, he never proposed to "throw the old and weak to the wolves".

---

I feel like Trump is banking on those meds working to control the Coronavirus. I hope he's right.

Would make sense given the encouraging results so far of the meds working.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

If the economy is "raring to go" for Easter and trump pressures states to relax the mitigation steps they've taken, then it's going to spread fast again. The old and the weak are at most vulnerable, so allowing covid-19 to spread uncontrollably again would be putting those people at risk. Even if they are allowed to "shelter in place" to avoid reporting to work and make other special considerations for their needs (healthcare, food delivery, etc), the few people they would come into contact with would now have a higher risk of being carriers. So yes, I shortened to to "throw the old and the weak to the wolves" (quotation for quoting myself, not quoting trump, I never intended that to be a quote just my commentary on what he's effectively wanting to do).

---

Quite a reach there. You took 3 words that he said and came up with an entire (hypothetical) scenario, and assigned him blame for your (hypothetical) scenario. I mean, come on. I don't believe for a second that the economy will be raring to go by Easter. I think he's trying to calm the masses and keep the market from further free fall.

Go here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Click on any country with a hyper link. There are very few that have a graph that looks any different from ours. Those countries are either:
1. Small, so more manageable
2. Socialist/Communist, so they can force more drastic measures easier
3. Reporting incomplete data because they're not testing adequately

Most countries have a graph that looks exactly like ours. Is Trump responsible for those countries as well? As I ask that, I realize there are several people ITT that will say "yes, it is".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

So, he never proposed to "throw the old and weak to the wolves".

---

If he's pressuring businesses and states and federal offices to re-open before we have it under control, he's doing exactly that. Believe it or not, folks usually don't say the god awful thing they know will be a consequence of their actions when they wanna act anyway. Though some on the state level are in fact admitting they would be sacrificing certain segments of the population.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/2905990001

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

It's weird you expect mayors to have more and better access to international heath crises than the federal government. Nevermind the state of Washington has been begging the feds for emergency funding and help from the CDC since the end of January. Sorry, but a disease isn't political.

---

Mayors don't control states. Governors do. And states have been enacting their own policies for weeks, and state policies supersede federal in most instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PMDawg

Quite a reach there. You took 3 words that he said and came up with an entire (hypothetical) scenario, and assigned him blame for your (hypothetical) scenario. I mean, come on. I don't believe for a second that the economy will be raring to go by Easter. I think he's trying to calm the masses and keep the market from further free fall.

Go here: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Click on any country with a hyper link. There are very few that have a graph that looks any different from ours. Those countries are either:
1. Small, so more manageable
2. Socialist/Communist, so they can force more drastic measures easier
3. Reporting incomplete data because they're not testing adequately

Most countries have a graph that looks exactly like ours. Is Trump responsible for those countries as well? As I ask that, I realize there are several people ITT that will say "yes, it is".

---

Making dumb unreasonable comments to "calm the markets" when we all know the truth doesn't in fact calm the markets, instead makes them more volatile cause no one know wtf the plan is. We are well past the point of calming the markets, and "re-opening business" ain't gonna change that because the markets understand that there is no prosperity while this is an ongoing issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

Making dumb unreasonable comments to "calm the markets" when we all know the truth doesn't in fact calm the markets, instead makes them more volatile cause no one know wtf the plan is. We are well past the point of calming the markets, and "re-opening business" ain't gonna change that because the markets understand that there is no prosperity while this is an ongoing issue.

---

You seem to know a lot about dumb unreasonable comments.

People on both sides of this issue tend to only see and hear what they want to see and hear. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

People on both sides of this issue tend to only see and hear what they want to see and hear. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

---

Exactly. I argued this early ITT.

If trump were wanting to throw the "old and weak to the wolves" why wait till Easter or say he'd reevaluate then? Just open it now or declare it over on Easter right now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PMDawg

Mayors don't control states. Governors do. And states have been enacting their own policies for weeks, and state policies supersede federal in most instances.

---

We need an initial strong centralize plan, followed by regional/state/city level plans once we can pause and figure out where this shit is. New Orleans probably wishes they'd been forced to cancel Mardi Gras about now, but at the time there weren't any cases in New Orleans, so party on, right? What about spring breakers in Florida and Texas last week? St paddy's partners in Chicago and Boston? Churchgoers in Baton Rouge? Every time some dumbshits gather in a big group like that, we have to assume a mass spread just occurred and need to push back everything another couple weeks. All we are gonna end up with is states using police force to impose checkpoints on their state lines with this hodgepodge array of measures being taken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Commercecomet24

People on both sides of this issue tend to only see and hear what they want to see and hear. The truth as always is somewhere in the middle.

---

I was just about to type this until I saw your post. Exactly. If you look hard enough for something, you'll find it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by msstate7

If trump were wanting to throw the "old and weak to the wolves" why wait till Easter or say he'd reevaluate then? Just open it now or declare it over on Easter right now

---

Why even talk like that if he's not at least strongly considering it?

Jesus Christ, some of y'all have a ****ed up sense of how one should lead in these times. W was a fine leader to calm and unite the country after 9/11. I am not a fan of W's politics, but he made me feel at ease because he didn't come out rambling, contradicting himself, issuing statements after addressing the nation contradicting the actual shit he said when addressing the nation, it's fine to admit he is in way over his head and we are all worse off for it, even if you like low taxes and small gubment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PMDawg

You seem to know a lot about dumb unreasonable comments.

---

You think big investors are calmed by trump saying the economy will be "raring to go by Easter"? They aren't idiots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KOdawg1

I was just about to type this until I saw your post. Exactly. If you look hard enough for something, you'll find it.

---

It's the problem plaguing our country right now, in all phases. People will get on one side of an argument and refuse to listen to rational thought from the other side. If you keep an open mind you can really learn something from other folks even if you think you know everything already lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgs

Why even talk like that if he's not at least strongly considering it?

Jesus Christ, some of y'all have a ****ed up sense of how one should lead in these times. W was a fine leader to calm and unite the country after 9/11. I am not a fan of W's politics, but he made me feel at ease because he didn't come out rambling, contradicting himself, issuing statements after addressing the nation contradicting the actual shit he said when addressing the nation, it's fine to admit he is in way over his head and we are all worse off for it, even if you like low taxes and small gubment.

---

Guess what... I hope it's open by Easter too. Lots of my family and friends are headed for hard times. Am I willing to "throw the weak and old to the wolves"? No, but if the economy is down too long, we throwing a crap load of the old, young, and in between to the wolves. Not everyone has a government job.