It is man, and it's the same bunch every single time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
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It is man, and it's the same bunch every single time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
I will take a kid that has offers from damn near every SEC school including bama and Uga over a 4 star rated kid that has offers from OM and UK ..Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I don’t understand why some of you can’t understand that ...
I will take a kid that has offers from damn near every SEC school including bama and Uga over a 4 star rated kid that has offers from OM and UK ..Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
I don?t understand why some of you can?t understand that ...
It's because most look at stars and numbers because they don't actually have to think or research. Most on here would rather take a 4 star kid over a 3 star kid without looking at the kids. I think stars are important. But I think offers are more important.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
I would take a 3 star with offers from Bama and Georgia every day of the week over a kid that's a 4 star with offers from Ole Miss and Kentucky.
I don't understand why you get combative about us looking at recruiting rankings. Go fight City Hall for better recruiting rankings instead of fighting us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
I get your point, I really do, but it doesn't change the fact that their is a Gulf between this kid & Dean in the recruiting rankings. Maybe this kid has academic issues. IDK.
I tell you what, I'll take 85 4 stars & I'll give you 85 3 stars with better offers. We'll see who wins more games.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
And I think you are completely inaccurate with this post and shouldnt let guys who couldnt care less tell you how good a kid is, better yet an entire recruiting class. MS is always going to have good players whether they are 3 stars or 1 stars.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
He has done a good job with this class and in this offseason. Anyone who says he hasnt is ignorant or just hating. Dean is easily more impactful than McKinley Jackson is, plays 10x harder and makes 10x more plays than he does. You tell me which one you want. Unless you are like a lot of the crystal ballers that rate these kids and never have even seen them play.
My team every single time. I'll take that bet 100% of the time. Give me 85 3 stars with Alabama and Georgia offers and I'll give you 85 4 stars with Ole Miss and Kentucky offers and my team would whip the piss out of your team.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
That's the whole point. Stars matter. But that's because most highly rated guys have good offers. But there are plenty of 3 stars that stay 3 stars that have solid offers because they fit well or bloom late or get overlooked. But if Bama wants a kid, that's all I need to know. Saban is the gold standard. If he offers a kid, it means they are elite or have elite potential. Not pretty good. Elite. Coaches know more than these website paid scouts that charge kids and their families to put their recruiting profiles on their websites to get hits and views
I like Dean. He could end up as a 4* guy. Has a nice offer list. He might be better than Reed. Idk. His final 2 were State and South Carolina. You figure out how legit those offers were smart guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
And you would end up exactly like UF did not having a single QB worth a damn. Evaluation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>star systemQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
You'll get your ass kicked about 80 times per the numbers. The team with the higher recruiting ranking beats teams with lower recruiting rankings 80% of the time straight up. That's a researched statistic for the genius who said we should do our research. It takes no research to just shout "offers! look at the offers!". Offers are abstract. They are not always the same. Rankings have become scientific. They matter and mean something in concert with winning. If you people don't get that by now or are turning a blind eye to it then you will be stuck having this same dumbass argument every year wondering why we aren't getting better.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
Sure its doable, maybe once every 10 years or so or if OM goes 2-10 for the next 2 years and Orgeron bottoms out AND Malzahn gets fired and Auburn tanks. Bear Bryant said in his book at A&M, that if there is 10 good players in state your best shot is 5. We are probably right on that. OM is going to get some kids, USM is going to get one every now and then and Auburn, LSU and Bama now even UGA are going to be after them hard. Thats just the truth. We are never, EVER going to sign the 10 best players all from MS in one year. Blue chip is an opinion and like I've said as long as some of you keep depending on the Dandy Dozen list and the crooting sites to tell you how good we are doing you are never going to be happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
All you can realistically expect a staff to do is go out and recruit the shit out of the kids and this staff has done that vastly better than Mullen and his crew ever did.
Ok. I just realized that we only have 1 4 star commitment & every SEC West team that has won the division over the past 20 or so years has about 50% 4 & 5 stars on their roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Do you dispute this fact?
I guess Reed is the kid that committed to OM... ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
Not only will I bet you Dean has a better college career than that kid, but I bet he doesn’t even end up at OM.
And yeah I’m a Smart mother ****er.
So crawl on over to 247 & tell Paul & Steve that the rankings are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
What QB do we have that is worth a damn?Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
I'd take Florida's QB situation over our right now.
Thank you for having a brain. I can't believe we are still having this conversation with other posters. It's mind boggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
That's the whole point. The rankings matter because the good teams offer the higher ranked kids and the high ranked kids have good offers. The reason you don't see many 3 stars with Alabama offers is because they have Alabama offers. They get bumped to 4 stars because of them being elite. We all bitch when we say "had they committed to Bama they would get a bump to a 4 star". Why do you think we say that? Because OFFERS matter and rankings almost always reflect offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
Again, you may be completely right. This isn't about Dean though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
This is about us only having 1 4 star commit when it's pretty well established that you've got to have around 10 4 stars in each recruiting class to compete
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Here's the thing. Dean will end up a 4 star. It's freaking June man. There's almost 8 more months until the recruiting cycle is done and still another 5 months until early signing.
Dean will end up higher. Why? Because he has good offers. And when it's this far from signing day updates to rankings happen much fewer and far between.
You smart enough to know how to read? I didn't make a definitive stance on Reed vs. Dean bc I honestly don't know. You, and people like you, list off offers from places a kid couldn't commit to. If UGA and Bama were willing to take Dean then why in the blue hell would his final 2 be State and South Carolina? Because those were camp offers. And all offers aren't created equally. But the smart MFers don't know that apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
It's June
In some cases you are correct. Yes offers equal rankings.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
However, what you must also realize is that there is a rankings model in which 247 simply plugs in the height, weight, position, size projection, speed, cone drill, & wing span, & the model spits out a range of where this player's natural ability should be ranked.
It's far far far more scientific than you think. Obviously quarterback & some skill positions like WR are a little more difficult to nail for the recruiting services, but most positions are not.
Oh goodness. Don't bring that garbage here.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
We've got 19 commits. Most of the hay is in the barn buddy.
Well most of those divisions titles are to one team so I reckon we are all sucking ass in recruiting if you wanna put it that way. If you are hinging your MSU football recruiting happiness level on that system you will never be satisfied. Even if Dabo comes here you will still be in this thread bitching up a storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
There is no difference in a class ranked 15 and one ranked 20. Or 20 and 25.
Go to bed. It's getting late for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****
Hopefully this will be 2 4 stars. Then we'll be 20% of the way to where we NEED to be.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/Dill_7k/status/1141059796268961792[/tweet]
You take your 85 players with offers from OM and UK and have Tom Lunginbil and J.C. Sherbet or what ever their names are and have them coach them since they are the ones that have them rated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pipedream
And I will take my 85 3 star players with offers from Bama and UGA and let Saban and Kirby coach them , because that is who they wanted
Neither is an exact science but I will trust coaches over so called recruiting gurus
Me , nor IYOK has never said taking more higher ranked players won’t help a program
Shit I would love to sign 28 4star guys every year
The things we have been saying that falls on deaf years is this:
This staff works hardener and puts more emphasis on recruiting than Dan and his staff did
This staff works outside the state of Miss and our contort recruiting zone better than Dan and his state did
The rating system on 3 and 4 star players isn’t an exact science. By saying that I ( can’t speak for IYOK ) would take a 3 star guy with a better offer sheet than a 4 star guy with less offers. So I trust coaches more than the so called experts
I wouldnt take Franks over Stevens. Franks is Chris Relf. Maybe a little better passer but not by much. Are you really going to sit here and act like UF has had a good QB since Mullen left them??? UF went years after Tebow not pissing a drop on offense. Will Grier was the best one and he got kicked out. UF signed 4 and 5 star QB by the boatload. Nick Fitzgerald and Dak had better careers than all of them. And more wins. Same thing has happened at Texas, Michigan, even A&M to an extent except for Manziel.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Not gonna argue that that doesn't happen, but there's about 300 other blue chip kids on the planet that this has absolutely nothing to do with. And countless games involving kids that don't have any Bama offers that show how effective recruiting rankings are in being predictive of outcomes. Then there's the draft where a players ability to get drafted drops monumentally as you go down the star ladder. I just don't understand why people either just don't want to hear the facts or wrestle with them. Either way the info is out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MetEdDawg
There's at least 2 that won't be in this class. And like I said. It's June. Lot of stuff left to do on the football field and in the classroom as well before signing day.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Yes expand more on this vast knowledge of recruiting you have I am just dying to hear you tell me how a percent of a percent on 247 composite rankings makes one class better than the other. Then bitch up a storm about it for months on end. We consistently win more ball games than the teams that recruit around us (15-25 range). You are a professional melter when it comes to our football team man.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Enough of this bullshit let’s get back to our players at hand and don’t be bringing any OM rebel commits over here that we aren’t even recruiting .. I don’t care if they are a 2 star form Noxapater or a 5 star from Mater Dei High
Also Some of you need to put to rest the I hate Joe Moorhead banners and get on board with this coach and staff.
I don't really give a damn who their offers are from. This is the same thing that happened in Moneyball. People who shout out offers and tape are the equivalent of the old school scouts who were holding on to the past like dinosaurs while the nerds did the homework and created the edge that now the majority of baseball and basketball use as their managing style of talent acquisition (soon to be all of the NFL too). I'll take the higher rated player all day every single day. And I will win if coaching is even remotely even. It's not an exact science, but it's the most exact science available. Start talking to people about film and offers and then you dive off into arbitrary characteristics that have no tangible meaning. Anyone can debate film or what offer is a real vs fake offer. It's really not all that hard to grasp if you know how a calculator functions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ari Gold
If thats the case then lets just go tell Moorhead and crew to hire those guys and do the evaulations for them and we can save them all the time. There's a reason no coaches give a flying shit about the rankings. The only people that do are the ones that want to have a dick measuring contest in June and on signing dayQuote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Some of these guys will move up. Half of this ranking bullshit is based on 7-7 ..Quote:
Originally Posted by ShotgunDawg
Cross was a 3 to begin
Chris jones was a 3
We will prob end up about like we also do 6-7 4 star high school guys and the jucos
For that matter Sweat and Abram both ended as 3?s in juco.. you think those were 3 star players???
Just chill out. Enjoy the good news coming ..
This thread has gone off the rails so I'll just post this & let the back & forth continue. On signing I expect MSU to sign between 7-10 4* or better recruits.
That's adding at least 6 (or jumps) and we have 19 commits at the moment. I don't even pretend to know the recruiting circuit as well as you, but I do think that's a very rosy outlook. I'd feel comfortable taking the under on 7 4-starsQuote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
I think 7 is a good O/U for this year-Marks is on the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by msstate7
Dean and Brown have a strong chance to be 4*s before it is all said and done due to exposure.
Tea leaves read pretty strong for us to land Dillon Johnson and Tulu.
I think Heath is going to be a 4*, definitely had the pedigree. Most think we lead there, but I'm a little concerned he remains uncommited. Jordan Davis is a 4* and we are in the thick of it there.
I think we are definitely in the game for Xavier Hill and he is going to end up being a 4*.Same goes for Eason who is already a 4*. Selmon could get a bump back to 4*s if he's healthy and improves this season.
That's 10 guys right there. Wouldn't be shocked if one of the JuCo DL we have committed shows out this fall and gets re-ranked. The guys are out there to get to that number. A lot of it is going to depend on how we look this year.
And I'll be happy if that's the case. That would mean we are on pace to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ifyouonlyknew
And fwiw, I don't think the thread went off the rails at all. I think this is a very very worthy discussion.
We come to message boards to discuss and debate. Not just read a commit list