We are 118th in the nation in time of possession

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santiago

Then tell Arnett that. Because he was on TV this season on SEC, saying that was the main reason he changed offense...... after publicly saying he would change little.
That is the reason I brought up TOP.
And he has gone against 4 of the worst defenses in the nation so far.

---

For reference:

Scoring defense rankings of the teams we have played:
SELA - 34.2 PPG | FCS team, but it's the equivalent of around 120th in the nation
Arizona - 19 PPG | 35th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation
South Carolina - 29.4 PPG | 99th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation

We've played an average of 76th scoring defense.

Scoring defense rankings for Ole Miss for reference:
Mercer - 28.6 PPG | FCS - equivalent of the 90th overall defense
Tulane - 17.4 PPG | 26th in the nation
Georgia Tech - 30.8 PPG | 105th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation

Equivalent of 68th in nation.

So not only have they played better defenses, they are scoring nearly 20 PPG more than us. But yeah this team and offense is great guys. Let's just ignore everything else, Coach34 has his access again so all is well and good for Poor Ole State.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

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This is a great example of the very few times, TOP matters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

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If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

This is a great example of the very few times, TOP matters.

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How bad will it be this year then against the KY defense? They are the only SEC team in top 20 in SEC efficiency, and our current TOP this season against some of the worst defenses in the nation is bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Santiago

If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

---

In SEC games last year we didn't control the clock. Outside of the Memphis game where we were plus 22 min, we would have been around
90-95th in TOP last year. That one game is the only reason we were ranked 54th. The other 12 average was very poor, if that is some kind of bench mark for you and for a ball control offense, we didn't control it well.

In opinion it wasn't just the QB or the system. They fed each other absolutely, but there were several factors. When we could run to control the ball our QB had to make those calls, the sideline was not bought in completely. Why was a natural explosive slot WR playing outside? He could destroy his match ups to extend drives. Why wouldn't the QB take some shots to loosen the defense? I think it was more than just the QB but he was a factor.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

Oh I know, I was just using them because TOP is not an end all be all stat. Just tired of how we were this ball control offense from some but they didn't research that we really were not in the SEC. Especially those that use TOP now but are metrics centered with other arguments. Analytics don't regard TOP very highly.

---

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

---

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

---

Just my take, but I don't think anyone is saying the past few years were great, but we started winning consistently. Leach was building up a system here that was so foreign to MSU, we were way behind in QB talent and WR talent for years in the SEC. To me, he was about to start hitting his stride with his recruits coming in.
He basically took the Moorhead team, and started running the air raid, and won with it and a tough team overall.
To me, it was more of seeing "if he can do this with Will at QB then lookout when Parsons, and other mobile QBs start running it". He was able to make us decently competitive in it while transitioning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CoachT14

For reference:

Scoring defense rankings of the teams we have played:
SELA - 34.2 PPG | FCS team, but it's the equivalent of around 120th in the nation
Arizona - 19 PPG | 35th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation
South Carolina - 29.4 PPG | 99th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation

We've played an average of 76th scoring defense.

Scoring defense rankings for Ole Miss for reference:
Mercer - 28.6 PPG | FCS - equivalent of the 90th overall defense
Tulane - 17.4 PPG | 26th in the nation
Georgia Tech - 30.8 PPG | 105th in the nation
Alabama - 14.2 PPG | 17th in the nation
LSU - 31 PPG | 107th in the nation

Equivalent of 68th in nation.

So not only have they played better defenses, they are scoring nearly 20 PPG more than us. But yeah this team and offense is great guys. Let's just ignore everything else, Coach34 has his access again so all is well and good for Poor Ole State.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

---

Amen. Some MSU boosters and posters ridiculed Leach all while he was rebuilding our culture, and a system that could be coach proof if we had OC's come and go, and it would attract QBs and WRs we never signed before. But the way some gave it a stupid nickname to the offense of a future NCAA hall of fame coach, and griped through it was the most MSU thing ever. At MSU if you coached HS or just simply from MS and share old school group think, you can rise to unknown heights in our administration.

I really wanted to see the young guys, Parson, Creed, Seth, Justin Brown(transferred after spring since the offense changed), and then the upcoming WR's in this recruiting class all on the field running the modified AR next season.... Dang.
This seriously is the most MSU thing we have done lately, and shows the leadership of admin and staff is to blame yet again for it. I wish there could be a clean house, and hire from Wazzou or other outpost places who know how to get things done and not "this is MSU football".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santiago

Amen. Some MSU boosters and posters ridiculed Leach all while he was rebuilding our culture, and a system that could be coach proof if we had OC's come and go, and it would attract QBs and WRs we never signed before. But the way some gave it a stupid nickname to the offense of a future NCAA hall of fame coach, and griped through it was the most MSU thing ever. At MSU if you coached HS or just simply from MS and share old school group think, you can rise to unknown heights in our administration.

I really wanted to see the young guys, Parson, Creed, Seth, Justin Brown(transferred after spring since the offense changed), and then the upcoming WR's in this recruiting class all on the field running the modified AR next season.... Dang.
This seriously is the most MSU thing we have done lately, and shows the leadership of admin and staff is to blame yet again for it. I wish there could be a clean house, and hire from Wazzou or other outpost places who know how to get things done and not "this is MSU football".

---

Nvm, glitch on my end

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Santiago

If we are basing a 9 win season on just the Kentucky game, then yes. I think he was coaching with a limited QB, and it was not the system. Over the course of a year, the system showed it could control clock or instantly go into a 2 minute offense with no warning. That was the beauty of it.
We needed some more running with it, and Leach had signed Parson, Creed, Seth(from Katy), who will all be stars in the SEC. We were starting to build talent to the system.

I hear you, but to me Arnett was making a very lame excuse... because look at it this year with those same upper classmen.
With the clock running this year, Arnett would have his wish on eating clock or running 2 minute offenses in it.
He said he was chaning little when hired. Now uses TOP as his excuse on changing it. So it is a big lie, and seems others are involved in nuking it so fast. I really wanted to see Parson, Seth, Creed, Brown, running it next year.

---

This

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

---

I would guess that Arnette has done away with midnight maneuvers ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

In SEC games last year we didn't control the clock. Outside of the Memphis game where we were plus 22 min, we would have been around
90-95th in TOP last year. That one game is the only reason we were ranked 54th. The other 12 average was very poor, if that is some kind of bench mark for you and for a ball control offense, we didn't control it well.

In opinion it wasn't just the QB or the system. They fed each other absolutely, but there were several factors. When we could run to control the ball our QB had to make those calls, the sideline was not bought in completely. Why was a natural explosive slot WR playing outside? He could destroy his match ups to extend drives. Why wouldn't the QB take some shots to loosen the defense? I think it was more than just the QB but he was a factor.

---

In SEC play last year our TOP was over 29 minutes on average.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

---

FIRE!!! Agree 100%

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to dawgday166 again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Really Clark?

At any point have I denigrated what CML did for the program? I 100% agree with his hire for the very reason we hired him to begin with. We needed him to right the ship and stabilize the program. No question in mind then or now.

That doesn't mean that I thought his offense would work like it did out west without changes. It doesn't mean I didn't understand who he was and any change would be extremely slow. It doesn't mean I didn't wish he was still our HC. But I'm going to speak honest about his warts as well. So would CML.

This season is not what any of us wanted. The start of the offense this season is not what was shown in practice in scrimmage, that I saw. I even said that our secondary was an issue but if they could grow it could be a salty group. Injuries and play calling had me way off. They still fighting but are handicapped. The offense has shown some improvement but is not close to clicking. But don't tell me how great the past was in everything that was done while knowing we had warts then too. We have a lot of warts now as well. Special teams have been a bright spot all season though.

---

We don;t have the season we wanted and hoped for because or poor coaching and decisions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

So far .. it may be worse than JoMo ever was. Hard to do but they done it. If we go 4-8 ... burn it down and start over IMO.

And if we don't do that, at the very least get C34 off the payroll. Then he'll be the head cheerleader bashing everything the staff does. One of them farts crossways .... he'll be all over that telling em how they need to fart, how much they suck, etc.

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One thing I do know, whenever we get good enough to win the whole thing, it will not be the type of team, coaches, or play calling that C34 would approve of.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord McBuckethead

One thing I do know, whenever we get good enough to win the whole thing, it will not be the type of team, coaches, or play calling that C34 would approve of.

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I agree. Have some rep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Really Clark?

I think and this my opinion only, he was right when you look at the Kentucky game last year. The defense played well until they just gave out because of all the 3 and outs. It was a close game but we were 20 minutes to the negative. You can't ask a defense to be out there 40 minutes and expect to win. That's a big big time differential in a close game. We would go through way too many dry spells of 3 and outs during games. Now he hasn't corrected it, we are worse but that's has as much to do with our defense not stopping even long 1st down conversions.

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But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smootness

But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

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Oh I agree, TOP is mostly a useless stat. I think the Kentucky is one of the times when it can illustrate an overall problem with the offense going 3 and out. Close game, low scoring until the very end and a 20 min TOP differential. That's pretty crazy and screams a lot of 3 and outs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

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There are a lot of MSU fans and boosters that feel the way you do.

Outstanding post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smootness

But the problem there is still not TOP, it is too many 3 and outs. If you score quickly, TOP does not matter. And if you score slowly, TOP does not matter. And if you do not score, TOP does not matter.

TOP does not matter.

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nm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dawgday166

Here's what I'm tired of Clark.

We had a coach that came in to a sorry ass, soft culture where the inmates were running the asylum. We had players cheating on exams, our stud LB punches our starting QB in the eye and breaks his eye socket, we have a primadonna RB who gains 300 against KSU then 13 against a bad TN team and he won't or can't block a LB to save his life while everything revolves around the yds he gains etc. The whole attitude of the team is sorry.

Not only that, the incoming coach was hired between the 1st and 2nd signing periods of recruiting. He proceeds to start instituting a lot of discipline and toughness. Thru the course of instituting the discipline and toughness, some bad attitude players get culled, and he ends up with a very young team, and eventually in the middle of the upcoming year an all-freshmen backfield.

Just that situation alone is a tough enough situation for any new coach to come into. Saban and Kirby both came into much better situations.

But to add to all that mess ...

During this time Covid hits, he doesn't get a spring practice so a lot of his personnel evaluation and moves have to take place during the upcoming season. He also doesn't get to do a spring install of his offense.

He then has to play an all-SEC schedule, and has games like OM where he only takes 47 scholly players up to their place to play the game due to Covid participation rules. His team is mostly true Frosh and Sophs.

During that whole time he gets literally crucified by many on this board with absolutely no patience or acknowledgement of all this adversity. NONE!

In year 2, we win 7, play LSU close and should win, lose a game to Memphis we played badly in but refs call on the muffed punt cost us that game. We also got screwed later in the year by the refs against Arky. We have a miraculous comeback against AU and beat more ranked teams in one season than we ever had.

Then last year we win 9 counting the bowl game. A pretty darn decent year by MSU standards. And YET ... he's still getting crucified by the same posters over and over and over ... ad nauseam.

He unexpectantly dies and we hire our pretty young DC so that we can "keep the culture", "have a smooth transition", "retain the recruiting class", yada, yada. He has no HC experience. He's only been coaching 3 years as a DC in the major leagues of SEC football. His Ds have been pretty solid, but not great.

The culture had been set. The program had been on the upswing. We were moving in the right direction. There were things that could be improved sure, and maybe ZA was gonna work to improve some of those things. That's not a bad thing. Take what works and improve or modify what isn't working too well. That's just kinda like ... good f***ing sense.

However .. the new coach with a bunch of new homeboys that have been hired who hated everything about Leach, decide to blow it all up, burn it all down, and start over.

And now ... they're on here saying we should be patient, we expect too much as MSU fans, they are busy comparing meaningless f***ing stats on how things are "improving", comparing their regime to LSU and Brian Kelly, etc.

All when they gave absolutely no quarter, encouragement, or support for a Hall of Fame f***ing CFB coach and all the adversity he and his team overcame. F*** that shit.

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Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

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Yep! That's where I am at.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BlackSailsDawg

Yep! That's where I am at.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BuckyIsAB****

Find me one thing in Davis Wade Stadium, from the sky boxes down to the walk ways that has any resemblance of Mike Leach. Jake Wimberly even made this point.

There is a reason for that. There was an axe to grind and a few people were able to get in Arnetts ear to grind it. I have zero patience or pity

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I can see it on the 247 site reporters also, carrying the message from the administration or staff about it also.
I get things were not perfect but good grief he was not treated right when here. It is these reasons that have turned me from giving a really big NIL donation this year, if big is a 6 figure donation. And I am not just saying that for internet boasting. I legitimately have soured on MSU in how they treated an NCAA legendary coach, and how a portion of our fanbase treated him, as well as how fast they ditched any resemblance of him being at MSU.
We lied to the signing class saying just some adjustments but no big changes.
I love the university, but we have some really backward stuff happening and I am not donating to this good ole boy system.

Air Raiders = Flat Earthers