You think Arkansas has more talent than we do? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
His coaching staff is fantastic and coaching matters.
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You think Arkansas has more talent than we do? Really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd4State
His coaching staff is fantastic and coaching matters.
Yes. Without hill and scrhrader etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Very comparable though.
Pittman and Odom and briles have done a great job for sure.
You think Hill leaves if he is getting the ball the way Arkansas is running the ball?Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
You think our OL looks the way it does running that offense?
If you had said before the season that Arkansas was more talented than us, you may have been banned; Now it?s a reality because we are running an outdated offense that teams as terrible as Vandy have figured out.
Man, it must be nice to have so many excuses ready if you are Leach;
I think I gave you the wrong impression. I am simply saying as the rosters sit right now, there is no appreciable difference in talent. Look at the recruiting rankings and attrition and you will see that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
Now, that doesn't change the fact that leach has sucked. The only way he will ever be good here doing what he is doing now is if he gets incredible OL and game breaking wr. I don't think he can do that but we will see. His only other option is to run the ball more.
All-time W-L-T recordsQuote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
MSU - 580-559-37.
Ole Miss - 647-517-34
Vanderbilt - 547-611-43
Bama - 936-305-42
LSU - 784-405-47
TN - 823-381-51
GA - 809-404-50
A&M - 732-474-44
FLA - 712-412-37
AU - 754-437-43
Mizzou - 637-540-50
ARK - 686-494-37
SC - 581-558-41
KY - 501-561-36
Before Mullen came in we had an overall losing record. Outside of KY and Vandy we have the worst record in the SEC. Even then KY has won the SEC twice. Besides one year under Mullen we haven't even had a winning record in SEC play since Sherrill. Our one year where we were in the running for a NC we threw it away by going on to lose by two scores to a collapsed OM team that had lost 3 of their last 4 and just came off a game where they lost to a 5-5 ARK team 0-30. We then of course lose to the complete opposite of the air raid in the Orange Bowl.
We were talked about as a coaching graveyard before Sherrill came here: https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl...798-story.html
Sherrill still left here with an overall losing record (74-76) and losing record in bowls (2-4). You may say well that's because of the NCAA baggage and I'd tell you that's MSU for you. Mullen was our greatest coach but didn't it leave a sour taste in your mouth knowing the man was looking for a way out every year except maybe '09?
We can argue what ifs all the day long like what if Royal stayed, McKeen officially won the NC, Sherrill never had NCAA issues, why we hired Croom over Fisher, what if Mullen was committed to State, why we hired Moorhead when Kyle Whittingham wanted the job. None of that matters because it didn't happen.
Sometimes I wonder if the years we had under Mullen was really worth it because it seems to have really made our fanbase toxic. When we go from firing a coach two years in and wanting to fire the next one 4 games in that's a problem. Who in their right mind would ever want to come here and coach a team if he can't be given time to build it up. We aren't FLA, AU, GA, BAMA, LSU, A&M. We don't just reload. There's a reason people have called State a "dead-end place."
But hasn't our fanbase always been that way? I know that people were calling for Jackie to be fired in '95 and '96 so we could hire Bobby Wallace. We had people on here wanting to fire Mullen and bring in Hud during the '13 season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Now, the flip side of that is that we actually have been incredibly patient from the university side and have given our coaches time - Felker and Croom were both given 5 seasons; only JoMo was cut short (and I will ALWAYS think that was the right move).
The reason the rosters look the same is because we have put our guys in an offense that makes them look on par with Arkansas. Also, Arkansas has put their kids in an offense that makes them look significantly better than us.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Do you think the bears OL is actually better than ours? I mean is that a question? Of course not, the difference is that the bears OL is not put in a position to fail. Ours has been, so now all of a sudden, our OL which everyone knew would be a strength for us this season, looks like dog shit and they are blaming the players? You know what, you put Eli Manning or Phillip Rivers in a Rich Rod offense, they would like Tyler Russell did. That doesn't mean that they on the same talent level as Tyler Russell. IT just means that they are playing in the wrong offense where their talent cannot be seen by any rational person.
The reason Arkansas looks as good or better than us is coaching. When we played them a few weeks ago, i didn't think for one second that they were more talented than us. If we had a competent offense - we win that game by 20+. How anyone could watch that game and think to themselves - man Arkansas is just as good as us talent wise. Simply a coin flip game???? Are you kidding me.
We had prominent posters on here tell us dan should have been gone in 2016. That we would look bad to fire him, but our best option was for him to leave on his own.
Do you hire M Leach and tell him coach what you have never coached or coach what you know to coach. How do you think we would look if ML was trying to coach the zone read?
If you think we are behind now, how far behind would he be in two years trying to mix in what he neither knows or wants?
Yes to this!Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
We can?t run either. We have tried.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
The answer is that Leach should have never been hired.
But that's the point- since Jackie we have not had a problem hiring a football coach. 1992 changed all that and elevated State when it elevated the SEC. I dont get into all-time records because nothing from 1962 affects us now. Check our record since Integration and use on the field results not the BS forfeits. Check our record with the conference since Jackie took over. 1991- present Miss State football is a different animal than it was in 1965. We used to be looked at the same way as a Memphis or La Tech and had the same facilities. Now its an upset anytime we lose to teams like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt3467
Look guys, nothing is going to change until we start donating and generating revenue with the big boys.
We are out spent by everyone else in our conference on the recruiting trail and in general and most teams are outspending us by a wide margin
We are out spent when it comes to hiring analysts to help with film and gameplans
We are out raised by everyone in the conference not named Vanderbilt and Vanderbilt may but their info is private since it is a private institution.
We have a champagne taste on a beer budget. We are near dead last in donations in not just the SEC but a large swath of the power 5 teams.
Now, money doesn't always equal success and there are diminishing returns once you are spending a certain amount and bringing in a certain amount but we aren't anywhere near there yet.
We caught lightening in a bottle with Dan. He is a heck of a head coach regardless of what anyone on here may think. What he did here is out of the ordinary again, regardless of what anyone else thinks or expects that is an undisputed fact backed up by 100 years of football.
We should have done everything we could to keep him as you don't let winners go in anything. Instead we threatened to fire him after 2016 and the fanbase started raising expectations which is good but they should also be tempered. You have to see the forest instead of the trees and most of our fanbase is looking at individual trees.
We are in a small state with Bama, Auburn, and LSU on all sides along with OM. We aren't this fairy tale that is set up perfect for success. It takes a hard nosed disciplined coach that will bust his a** on the recruiting trail and coach them up hard to win here. JOMO didn't fit that bill in terms of being hard nosed. I think Leach does and that is the most important quality IMO in a coach here. Discipline in all phases. I don't care what system he runs.
I ultimately think Leach will find a way to win here and am not ready to give up on him yet. A lot of yall really need to dig into the monetary numbers a little more and see just how behind we are in spending on the recruiting trail and with analysts/facilities. I think it will open some eyes as to the hill there to climb.
About the only advantage we have is the fact that we are in the SEC and receive SEC money.
By spending standards we should be in the bottom 1/4th of the conference every single year and really in the bottom 2-3.
Our expectations currently IMO should be 6-9 wins every season and every 4th or 5th season a shot at 10+, if the chips fall right and we win the West that is just icing on the top. Now, if we can consistently do that over say 10-15 years then we will slowly work our way up the ladder.
I've heard we have a nice rainy day slush fund ... if we aren't spending then it isn't the fans faultQuote:
Originally Posted by BB30
Mike Leach will 100 % get an extension. You don't hamstring your coach on the recruiting trail like that. It screams "we are about to fire this guy".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooterpoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
You can't seriously believe that we struggled on offense against Vandy because they "figured out our offense"? Like, you really believe that? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
All of these points have nothing to do with the fact that we can't beat a 3-8 defense with any level of certainty at this point. Imagine if Leach had decided to not call a timeout before time ran out? Would any of the things you just mention bare at all on his coaching blunder? Of course not.Quote:
Originally Posted by BB30
He is getting paid 5 million a year. That is not pocket change, even in the SEC. He simply needs to be judged on the product he has put on the field. The rest of this is just noise.
In regards to extensions on coaches contracts I wonder if we make under the table promises to extend coaches because other states can offer longer contracts.
The amount of money made by coaches and the way their contracts are set up is one reason I think people may not return to spending all the money required to attend SEC football games. I get real frustrated by how much coaches are rewarded even if they fail.
It's been a long standing rumor that the "slush fund" you talk about was provided by Leo Seal and it's specifically earmarked for hiring and firing coaches. Probably no way to actually prove it thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
Cohen himself said we were in good shape with the fund so it was no rumor ... don't know about any of the money being earmarked for specific purposesQuote:
Originally Posted by StarkVegasSteve
If our fans are impatient it is because, every since I was a kid anyway - I'm 62, we have never been consistent in winning and we have never won a SEC title or a NATTY. We are tired of losing for the most part and being an "also ran". I hate that frigging term! We are most of the time bottom of the SEC or middle at best, seldom in my years anyway have we been in the top tier of the SEC or even nationally. Other "elite schools", those who consistently win, look down at us even when we have a great year, by our standards, as though we do not belong there for whatever reason. Bunch of arrogant snobs!Quote:
Originally Posted by BrunswickDawg
It is hard on the fans when we lose. I hear the coaches and players take it harder but I do wonder if that is true, or maybe it is but in a different way, simply because they have within their power the ability to change tactics in a game or the effort or the toughness or mentality or whatever! We as fans can not! We sit by and watch a pitiful performance and it is very hard to do. Especially when a coach seems blind to the fact that something has to change or we will lose the rest of our games. Every game so far has been the same offensively except for maybe a shuffle in the backfield before the snap or an inside WR screen. Leach has to start thinking outside the box and learn from past mistakes. Other professions do, we learn, perform root cause analysis and correct previous tactics. Why can't Leach? With current players, he is not wining for various reasons that have been expressed in other threads. I would rather NOT watch as I feel sorry for both the team and fans alike.
This is hard to watch! I am trying my best to be patient but the older I get, the less patient I become with people that cannot or will not learn!
Well there will be no need for stadium expansion for a while. Be lucky to be half full next two years. Leach couldn't max out his bandwagon right now. One positive from Covid, it will not show our pathetic true program condition.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG
How much would it cost to take out the bleachers and add chairback everywhere in lower bowl, decreasing attendance to probably 55k?Quote:
Originally Posted by R2Dawg
Why would you want to reduce the strength of the home crowd?Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
Well I'm no prominent poster, but the response to this has been told over and over. I didn't agree then, but I certainly do now. It wasn't that Mullen should've been fired for being a bad coach... it was because he sh*t the bed against teams he should've beaten, namely Ole Miss, due to his seeking a new job. For that alone, 17 him... he was looking at Maryland for Heaven's sake. Move on.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
It's one thing to extend the contract- thats fine. But the buyout should not increase with it. That is earned. We would be moronic to extend the buyoutQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
I believe we struggled against Vandy because we run an outdated offense that every competent DC in the SEC has figured out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
What is your reason? That we didn't have enough starters on the OL? Really? That is why Vandy - quite possibly the worst team in SEC history with only 55 players held our team to around 250 yards of offense?
Quit embarrassing yourself.
No it doesn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
I think everyone besides Bo Pelini has this offense figured out at this point in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Hahahaha- how bad does he want a do-over?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Lord have mercy guy. You think everyone in America didn’t try drop 8 on Leach before this year? Do you honestly think he is facing a different defense right now than he has faced the past 20 years? Do you really think that his teams at Texas Tech or Washington State could not put up a shit ton of yards and points on the Vanderbilt defense we played last weekend? We suck right now because we have 4 years worth of players on our roster recruited to a run heavy scheme on top of no spring training during a total offensive Overhaul. We may never be great but we are awful because of those reasons. Thinking the system has been figured out so well that garbage teams like Vandy can now stop it with garbage athletes every year is probably the absolute dumbest take on this site, and that is saying something.Quote:
Originally Posted by HancockCountyDog
They have this year’s MSU offense figured out. They don’t have this offensive system figured out. That is an insane take. When Vandy is stopping you running the same thing teams have tried and failed to stop you with for 20 years it is players and reps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
How much money do you want to bet that Mike Leach gets extended to 4 years?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell
Agree completely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach34
I heard someone else making a similar argument. Basically saying that it is not that the offense won't work in the sec. if that were the case, it would have failed against real sec teams like Bama and Aggie but worked against sucky defenses like vandy, and to a lesser extent ark and ky. It's not like vandy a defense is any better than pac 12 defenses. That does lend credence to the idea that it is not the system, at least not right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
That's correct and unfortunately it is going to take time to get those players in. That's the case for any coach unless we just hire someone that runs a very similar or the same system as the previous. Even then it's likely to be a struggle unless the previous coach was hired away because odds are the last coach was fired. The silver lining for us is we are playing a lot of young players like Cross, Dollar Bill, Rogers, Marks, etc. that are basically getting a free year eligibility wise which means that they will have more reps and we could have them a little longer than normal.Quote:
Originally Posted by confucius say
One of the biggest issues I see is we need to find a way to develop a deep passing game. I think it's a symptom of having an inexperienced and/or not confident QB and not having a WR who is a consistent deep threat that we can rely on to get a catch even 15 yards down field. Although I think Heath may be emerging as that guy. I think we also need to find a way to add more wheel routes in. If I remember correctly one of the plays that kind of kick started our offense against LSU was a wheel route to Kylin that we busted for a TD. Our screen game has also been atrocious because of poor blocking by the receivers and o-linemen not being able to get into their area to block a defender. I thought that was better against Vanderbilt- but probably mostly because it was Vanderbilt.
Some of these things have been issues for awhile now for us- going back to Dan even.
I think we're recruiting the types of players we need to run this system though. I'm not too concerned about the overall class ranking especially in a down year for the state. Having a four star QB and two four star WR's including a true slot guy tells me that we're on the right track there. The problem is those guys will be freshmen next year so they're going to need time to develop as well- and they'll be about where Marks, Walley, and Tulu are right now.
it took 5 Vandy turnovers for us to beat them and I also believed they outgained us ...Everyone has figured out this offenseQuote:
Originally Posted by Jarius
Mullen who was possibly our best coach ever didn't get the extension one year during his career here ... no extension was a way of sending a message to Mullen that year and most everyone here agreed with the moveQuote:
Originally Posted by Quaoarsking
Yes and that message was sent after job hunting in 15 . He was not extended after his 7th season here and was extended after a 6-7 8th season and would've been extended after his 9th had he stayed. You can't hamstring a coach after his first year by not extending him. That's telling players that he's currently recruiting that the university doesn't believe in his ability to turn it around. So if I'm a recruit why the heck would I think any differently. It's different when the culture is built already and you have a bad season. We'll extend him but the buyout won't change.Quote:
Originally Posted by FISHDAWG